The Smiley Smile Message Board

Don't know if this has been posted (was asked in 2003 to keep it quite). Anyway, when Brian starting working with Darien on SMiLE, these were the song titles he had in mind to include:

Do You Like Worms
Prayer
Time To Get Alone
Bicycle Rider
Diamond Head
Holidays
Song For The Children
Fall Breaks And Back To Winter
I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night
Wind Chimes
Heroes And Villians
Surf's Up
Good Vibrations
Cabin Essence
Wonderful
I'm In Great Shape
Child Is Father Of The Man
The Elements
Vega-Tables
The Old Master Painter

Do you mean that those were the song titles that he had in his mind that belonged on SMiLE? Or is that the list of songs he was given by someone to work into the BWPS three sections?

So he thought the Diamond Head belonged on there, as well as Fall Breaks and Time To Get Alone? Intersting, indeed!

I sincerely doubt 'Time to Get Alone" was intended (or even written in time) for SMiLE '67, but it would have done wonders for the albums commercial appeal.

I fall into the category that thinks SMiLE, no matter how brilliant it is musicially, would have been less than popular in 1967 if it had been released. A few more 'traditional' pop songs could've definitely helped it's cause, in my opinion. Well, time to make a new fan mix, haha.  :lol

Yes, I'd love to know why these songs are included. Petsite, does whoever asked you to keep this quiet have any explanation behind the selections?

I'm thinking Diamond Head and Fall Breaks represent water and fire, respectively. If you notice, there's no Love to Say Dada/Cool Cool Water or Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/Fire on that list.

No, but there is "The Elements".

Interesting.  I thought that looked familiar and then remembered there was a variation of this posted before.  I just did a search to refresh my memory and came up with this very similar list here (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,2325.msg45386.html#msg45386).

I wonder... Maybe in BW's mind SMiLE had no particular ending date. We say it was spring '67. Perhaps Bri still had some intention of releasing it all the way through the end of the year, or even later. In that case, almost any song could have been intended for SMiLE.

That's good. I never thought of it that way. Maybe in the back of his mind, for the next few years, Brian would think of a song or two as possible SMiLE tracks. You know there was always this idea, even by the other guys in the band, that it would still come out. Maybe they thought that because Brian told them that- 'you know, I'm still working some songs out, it'll come out eventually'.

I could see that. Chances are that it isn't really the way it was, but still, I could see that in Brian's mind maybe he was still working some songs out and thinking that they'd fit on the album.

There are two other possibilities I'd consider for those non-Smile Smile songs.

1. He just remembered having written those songs around then. No true Smile association whatsoever.

2. He remembered having written those songs based on ideas he was having during his Smile work. Time to Get Alone isn't a Smile song. It just isn't. But who's to say some aspect of it didn't come about as a part of Smile-thinking?  Obviously, none of us could know that, because whatever happened that wasn't talked about in an interview or recorded in a session is solely in the realm of (sometimes shaky) memory. In this case, it still isn't that they were ever intended for the original or some after-67 Smile so much as that he associated them with Smile because of their origins.

I realize these are less exciting than thinking there was some grand master plan we're still unraveling. But I don't believe in those.

Sail Plane Song.

I thought I remember reading that that list wasnt given by Brian to Darian, but rather that Darian gave the list to Brian to approve or not.

The story I recall was that at the start of the BWPS project Darian gave Brian a stack of cards with virtually every known song Brian composed in '66 and '67 written on them; the intention was for Brian to go through and select the songs he associated with the SMiLE era or thought should be included in a live presentation of the material. The list above are the songs/tracks Brian initially thought should be included. Keep in mind, at this point the idea was to simply present "SMiLE"-era material in a live set that would have some cohesion. As Darian and Brian worked on the material, and especially after Brian invited Parks back into the fold to write new lyrics, the gameplan changed to actually "finishing" a version of SMiLE which resulted in the tracklisting being winnowed down to reflect what was actually thought to be the SMiLE album.

I just got this vision of Brian sitting at a table like a kid in elementary school, with Darian (in the role of teacher) holding up flash cards with song titles on them:

 Darian: 'Ok, now. Cabinessence. What's the answer?'
Brian: 'Uh, Smile, Yeah. Smile. '
Darian: 'Good Answer'

Not trying to be mean, that's just honestly what popped in my head  :(

What's this doing on the list? Wasn't this a new title for BWPS '04?

I'd heard before that the original list prepared for BWPS include things like Fall Breaks and Diamond Head ... I'm sure it's been discussed before.

Peter Reum, I'm thinking, might know more about the background to all this.

This was a proposed list gone between Brian and Darien abotu which tunes belong in SMILE. Brian settled on the tunes listed and they started to weed out those that didn't fit. Remember, Brian was still at least thinking about SMiLE until the end of 1967.

I have always been of two minds regarding Brian writing for Redwood and how the BB "pushed" Brian into giving them Time to Get Alone and Darlin'. I am of two minds because Redwood was.

Chuck Negron said that they bullied Brian into stopping the sessions with them, making him almost cry in the studio and bascically abusing him. Danny Hutton said if he were Mike Love and Carl Wilson, he would have done the same thing cuz your own group is more important. So...............

maybe he was thinking of that amazing horn section on TTGA with the flutter tone

Time To Get Alone has always reminded me of Cabinessence's little brother - they have a similar vibe, the same lead singer, and a similar theme - to the verses anyway, the idea of getting away with your loved one:

"Light the lamp and fire mellow / Cabinessence timely hello" always conjured up entering your vacation cabin for the first time, putting the light on and lighting the fire, and it's a timely hello because it was time to get alone, after all.

"Nestle in a kiss below there / It's so quiet, you can hear for a country mile, makes you want to sit and kiss for a little while"
These two lyrics kinda go together.

And of course, there's the SMiLE theme in the middle of the Hawthorne version of TTGA.

Additionally, while we're talkin' 20-20 as SMiLE, my fanmix dream would be this:

I'm not a big fan of "I Wanna Be Around". If Brian wanted to do an old standard, then it's a shame he didn't get the idea to do "Ol' Man River" then - first of all, it's got a few different sections to it, like the SMiLE material itself, secondly, it has the same lyrical motif as Cabinessence in a way, except the ethnic workers / slaves are black, not Chinese, and thirdly, it would be great running into an Elements suites where "Water" is placed first.

Fourthly and fifthly, it's a much better song and they do it so well. :D

I have Ol' Man River placed right before Cabinessence in my mix.  I put the string bridge from H&V between the two.  My elements contain Fall Breaks, Wind Chimes with a portion of Holiday, Mrs. O'Leary's Cow and Diamondhead.

Interesting. Glad I'm not the only one!

Does anybody know if "Diamond Head'" had any roots in SMiLE, or was it strictly a Friends-era composition?

It was most likely a studio jam (the credits point in this direction) but if Brian had thrown out a Smile-era riff as a starter, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Wow.  Thanks to John for the tip on the Hawthorne CA version of Time To Get Alone.  Isn't that a reference to Look or GV in that bridge.  That really throws me for a loop.  Anyone know what the recording date of this alt version of Time To Get Alone is?

I also really agree with the Old Man River comment.  I too have wished I could put it right by Cabinessence.  Some feel.  Same with Diamond Head.  Maybe I will make an extended double LP smile version.

I'm pretty sure the instrumental was recorded late summer/early fall of '67, for Three Dog Night/Redwood. The Three Dog Night version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=U7dEfHPTXaA. It's interesting, and just as good as the finished BB track in my opinion. Supposedly, when Mike found out Brian was recording this song and "Darlin'" (which is where I get my date for this recording from), he went into the studio while Brian was recording and confronted him in front of Redwood, telling Brian that these were BB songs and to stop working with Redwood.

October 14th & 15th, 1967.

Supposedly Mike dragged Carl with him. You see, Mike crushed Brian's dreams AND put brother against brother. Poor Carl.  :)

Whilst I do not claim to know the exact answer to this I always thought that the most credible inspiration for Cabinessence was something a bit more whacked-out than a trip to Center Parcs (or the Californian equivalent)

I have a problem with this tale - the sole source for it is Chuck Negron's book. No-one else has ever mentioned it, notably Danny Hutton. Or, for that matter, Brian.

Also have a wee problem with taking a supposition and treating it as fact.  :o

I wanna go back to this list.

Just what is Song For The Children doing on there in 2003, before work had begun and before VDP had been brought in to fill the lyrical gaps... therefore at a time when Song For The Children shouldn't even have been a twinkle in Brian's eye?

After all, Do You Like Worms is still called Do You Like Worms according to this list, not Rock Plymouth Roll.

Can Petsite tell us anything about the list's source?

Or am I on the wrong track, and there was a SMiLE 66/67 recording labelled as Song For The Children that I've just not noticed being discussed in the 30 or so years I've been fixating on SMiLE?

I've got Diamond Head and Little Pad included in my SMiLE mix. Just seems right.

Maybe Diamond Head, like Little Pad, included some reworking of Hawaiian Song? The guitar sounds suggests as much.

Sorry, had to bump this... it's eating away at me (like SMiLE topics do...) and I'd love to hear whether anyone has an answer?

Which part do you have a problem with, Andrew...the whole thing, or just the Carl being there with Mike part?  'Cause the way it's presented in Carlin's book, both Carl and Mike showed up at Wally Heider's , then he quotes Danny as saying "Mike got us outside and said, 'Hey, what's going on?  We've got an album to do.  Why don't you wrap this up?".  Note that Danny doesn't mention Carl in this quote, so that's why I'm wondering.  Incidentally, Danny makes it clear that he doesn't blame Mike at all for this:  "But if I were Mike, I would have done the same thing.  It's like, Brian's our producer, he's our writer; (these other, unknown guys) are in the only studio we record in, and he wants to finish an album with them?  Mike's like...get out!  And everyone always says merda about Mike, but if I were hm, I would have said the same thing".

Well, I just keep coming across weird factoids lately. On the topic of Danny Hutton, it turns out that Brian was partially inspired to write "Darlin'" because of  Danny Hutton, as Danny "used to call everybody darling". Not that I give it that much weight to it, but here's the proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52XhOPcAd_k&feature=related. BTW, is it me, or does it sound like the amp for Brian's piano is turned off?

The problem I have is with Negron's description of Mike & Carl reducing Brian to tears in the middle of a session, actually in the building. Danny doesn't mention it. No-one else ever has. Negron is the sole source. Sorry, but just doesn't ring true.

Well, "Look" is not included as a potential title, so perhaps "Song For The Children" was an actual (working) title Brian thought up (at what point?) for this track prior to Parks writing lyrics for it. Notably, Parks' lyrics do not seem directly inspired by the title and vice versa. Of all the titles associated with "SMiLE", I can see Brian reaching the name "Look" on a list and going "what the hell's that?", then upon hearing the track, deciding it needs a better name he can remember it by. Or, perhaps that was the name he wanted all along for the piece, regardless of whether it was ever listed on a session sheet or tape box.

Similarly, does the title "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" appear on any vintage session sheets or tape boxes? For a while I wondered if the title was something dreamed up (by Dominic Priore?) long after the '66 sessions, then I heard Brian refer to it by that name during the 1998 Sean Lennon interview which seems to confirm that the title did originate with him or at least was vintage to the '66/'67 period.

Brian refers to the Fire Music as "Mrs. O'Leary's Fire" in the Jules Siegel article, on his way home after the session. Where the cow came from is a very fine question - the earliest reference I can recall is the March 1972 report in the UK rock press that Carl was going to dig the tapes out and finish Smile.

Same here, the preferences I mean. I can have I Don't Wanna Be Around, but am not a true fan. Ol' Man River and Diamond Head are better. Diamond Head manages to have a compicated time signature (bongos) and a ukulele waltz at the same time. I discovered the waltz only after years, and got frightenly drunk as a result of that (I mean, what other things might I have missed out on during my thousands of hours of listening to music)?

Am I reading this right - you've made a Smile mix using a song that was not only recorded well over a year after the project was abandoned, but was never even considered for Smile in the first instance ?

Why not go the whole hog and include "All This Is That", "That Same Song", "My Diane" & "Problem Child" ?  :o

I think they have a point. Brian may have abandoned the Smile album but the shift in songwriting that took place after Pet Sounds and began with Smile didn't dry up, he just moved it in a slightly different direction. Like how he said he didn't have to have a huge fire but a candle would suffice, that's almost how his songwriting seems to have gone. So including something like Ol' Man River instead of I Wanna Be Around, while it's a stretch to imagine it being a "Smile" track, it still maintains a similar sort of theme explored in some Smile tracks and Brian's own songs at the time reflect it to a certain extent.