The Smiley Smile Message Board

I always found this subject fascinating. Does anyone know if it was Brian or Carl's decision to have Carl mix the album? It's very revealing that Carl was so involved in Brian's new music. I've also (and probably a number of people on the board) heard the "Honkin" with Billy Hinsche, which has Brian's production before Carl's mixdown. It's fascinating in that all of Brian's rough edges remain--the piano is very prominent, as are the moog synths and Bri's falsetto is a bit more brittle and on-the-nose as are the group harmonies.

So what's the consensus on Carl's mix? Do you think he did a good job, had less than desirable elements to work with or was slightly hindered by his foggy 1977 state of mind? And also, do you think Brian was too out of it to do his own mix, or just needed fresh ideas in Carl?

I don't Brian ever quite finished that album. As has been his wont since the mid-70s, he merely did a lot of recording and left it to others to sift through his creations, polish off the rough edges, and release it in some form. In other words, it wasn't so much that he needed a different perspective as that someone needed to get the tapes ready for release as an album, and Carl was the one willing to do it.

My understanding is that Brian used Carl as a mixdown producer to get the stereo mix right.

Carl basically took Brian's somewhat, ah, 'unfocused' mixes and made them shine a bit.

OK, a lot.

The "Billy" mix of Honkin' that I've heard is obviously a rough, with little stray guitar notes and noises present in the intro, etc. (and Dennis' count-in still intact). 

Yeah, Billy's version was a rough mix, recorded during the start of 15 Big Ones over the weekend of January 30th and 31st 1976.

What's your source on those dates?

I think the mix is pretty unbalanced. The farting bass lines are way too loud. Brian always has to have someone mix for him as he cannot hear stereo. So the last time he really did one himself is the last Beach Boys mono mix probably Break Away.

Brad Elliott and Keith Badham. Yes, I know not always the most exacting information. But I do know from talkingto people around at that time that Honkin' was recorded early in 1976, regardless of the actual date. Keith finds info for Jan 30th and 31st, I am going to go with it for now.

Breakaway was stereo. I think (don't hold me to this) that the last mono Brian-monitored mixdown was probably Friends.

I love the mix on Love You. The only things I would change about Love You would be either eliminate or re-record "Good Time", have Mike sing the tag to "Roller Skating Child" in his wonderfully nasal tone, and have Brian do a couple of more takes on his lead vocals. But, Love You has been in my Top 5 since its release. I'll bet Brian's, too.

I won't go so far as to say there aren't things I'd change: I think the performances are worse than any preceding Beach Boys album in more than a decade, at least.

But the mix isn't what's wrong. You could mess with it and have other, cool results. But it's also fine as-is, in my opinion. As are the songs. As are the arrangements. As was the production (apart from the aspect of production that leads one to say "let's do another take" or "let's go back in a time machine so these guys can hit the notes clearly"). I love all of that.

Friends was stereo-only (mixed by Desper).   The single was mono though, I think.   Do It Again was mono.

Nah. Why? Yes, it sticks out like a sore thumb, but I don't think a re-recording could have topped the original. It's not the greatest Beach Boys song, but I do like it, and I don't think a re-recording would have went down as well as the original.

That's why. It makes no sense to keep the original Brian vocal. No sense.

Oh, I have nothing against the song, I like the song. I think, around that particular time, the guys were bending over backwards to let Brian have his way, and didn't want to challenge him, or question him. But they should of.

EDIT: I mean, they should HAVE. :P

Yeah, I should have said single. That is the last mono single or LP track Brian had command over. Do It Again was a foldover done by Desper as a compatabilty check, but when he lost the stereo single mix out of the back of his vette, they went with what he had on him at the time. As he said, he nearly lost his job over that.

I was listening to my little black thing that holds about 300 songs last night to 1977 and the Love You/Beach Boys songs sounded GREAT, both of that era yet above it in some ways, sound-wise, as they had in 65-66.

If you listen to the, let's say, "pre-postproduction" mixes of the Love You tracks that circulate, you'll note that Carl basically beefed them up and cleaned them up, made them more palatable. Not that they're any less charming. They're notably less synth-heavy, but that could just be the bootleg fidelity.

Love You seems like a haiku, or a zen koan. It exists beyond the notes that are played. It exists in the spaces between the notes as well (and there are a lot of those!).

It isn't my #1 BB album, but it is up there, and is probably the BB album I listen to most.

My wife is pregnant and I like playing Love You (on vinyl, of course) to the bump. I imagine the synth sound waves doing good things to the foetus' brain.

Awesome post

Drop her in her little tub, wash her body, shampoo her hair, and pat her on her butt.... ;)

Be ready for infant that will only stop crying if you give it cocaine, milkshakes, and playboy.

AMEN. Finally, someone understands me.

Bolded, italicized, and underlined for UNDISPUTABLE TROOF. :)

Laugh of the year right there.

don't forget steaks and birthday cakes

I think all babies like birthday cake though...


Did that when my wife was preggers with Jaymie (her in the avatar !) except we used Adult/Child.

I know the 45 of Cottonfields is mono but Brian only sings on that. Desper was able to pipe things to Brian in mono at least through 1971 so I assumed Break Away was the last mono Brian master.  Is the original 45 in stereo?

Yes, it is stereo.

Ok thanks.

hey all

is this the pre-carl, brian mixes?

http://www.discogs.com/Brian-Wilson-Brian-Loves-You/release/4168639

No, that's the session at Brother when Brian presents his new material to other band members (except A1,  A5 and B6). The original BW mixes for Love You are out there, but they take some finding.

thanks AGD, I'll keep looking damnit!!!!!

They're on the Oh, Brother bootleg.

I much prefer the earlier mix of Mona. Never understood why the saxes were virtually mixed out for the released version.

I like the bells in the early version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of7YhpFHu5g

Talking about alternate takes of Brian's '76-'78 material, I just stumbled upon this earlier (?) mix of Pitter Patter. To me it sounds much better than the finished version that ended up on the M.I.U. Album, which sounds "polished to death" in comparison. Love the little instrumental addition towards the end here (synth?), wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Brian's idea, it's very reminiscent of some of his other late-70s work like Do Ya or It's Like Heaven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LodEYRudNqc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LodEYRudNqc)

wow... that does improve it ... quite a bit!  released was "Polished to Death" yeah I see that now :-)

I know this was mentioned, like, six years ago, but are we SURE that "Honkin' Down The Highway" was recorded in early '76?? It sure sounds like the rest of the album, what with the obvious drum machine and the farting synths. Is it possible that in early 1976 it was a DIFFERENT version, and what ended up on the album was a re-recording??

Very nice.  I had always liked this song but the pitter patter parts made them sound like a bunch of weenies.   this is less weenie like and more manly     They should release this version.  Maybe add some more thunder and lightning sounds to the mix

Disagree. Far too much luHvster on this version. Sounds like he slipped someone a few(and I mean few) bucks to make him more prominent. The released version always had the swag to be a potential single.