The Smiley Smile Message Board

I don't expect this topic to be here long, but I figured I'd just do it and hope a few people see it while it's still up. I have a few Smile ideas, but I don't have the technical know how to do it. If anybody can help, or if anybody wants to volunteer to spend some spare time, I'd appreciate a PM or two.

*ahem*

I also don't have the ability to edit/mix stuff.

So I gave up and revisited the old way of doing things...like following David Leaf's box set advice & compiling a SMiLE out of what's there.

Basically following the Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE track order worked out okay with the limited material available.

Then, just the other day, I checked out iTunes & they had almost the identical compilation available for download.

After "Our Prayer" I throw in "Barbara Ann" which works surprisingly well.

It's very possible to compile a SMiLE mix, similar to the 12 song list submitted to Capitol Records in 1966, with minimal editing and "gadgetry". Between the boxed set, the 2fers, Hawthorne, and maybe even BWPS, you can compile and sequence a very satisfying SMiLE mix.

There's a couple of similar threads going on right now with overlapping themes regarding SMiLE. And that's great. I could read/talk about it all day. Is it possible that we could dedicate this particular thread to us nuts, like me, who are obssessed with making the perfect SMiLE mix? There are no wrong answers, anything goes. Just state your OPINION and your reason(s) for it. I'd like to throw something out there.

"Good Vibrations" has been discussed recently on the board, specifically about its inclusion on SMiLE. Assuming you elect to put it on, where do you put it? For years, I put it somewhere in the middle, usually around "Wind Chimes". But, recently, I've been toying with putting it first, or near the beginning. If it was to be included on SMiLE, obviously it was the first song to be recorded. Also, it ended up a boy meets girl song, so, assuming the lyrics would've stuck, on SMiLE, you could've started with it! I mean, lyrically, where else do you put it? What do you think about this?

1. Our Prayer
2. Good Vibrations
3. Look
 

Ok, I'm up for it.  :) It's interesting that you would put Good Vibrations and Look back to back, considering that a portion of Look actually quotes a section of GV. It actually works quite well.  :) Personally, I'd skip GV from my mix. I always thought that it was a case of Brian giving in to Capitol and including the latest hot single on the current album, rather than an artistic decision.

I think that Kokamo fits well at the beginning of side B. Umm.... :P

... and as part of the Americana theme Amusement Parks USA sits perfectly between Heroes & Villains and Worms.

Now were talkin!

I was listening to the GV SOT's the other night... marveling at the sheer amount of unused sections that Brian recorded for that one single song, and I thought to myself....


"What would have kept Brian from using some of these unused sections of music as a part of Smile?"


Discuss.   ;D

Exactly! I've been playing with the thought (not the music software, yet!) of putting GV sections, released and/or unreleased as link tracks on my Smile mix.

Make It Big would be a perfect closer placed right after Surf's Up!
And Summer of Love would fit right in with the third movement!

Audacity is an extremely easy program to use, it's what I'm currently using in my toilsome effort to make a good SMiLE mix.

Hhhhmmmmm (nodding of head in agreement) ..... yes, yes ... sometimes when I do a mix of post '04 BWPS - I add that little something extra by placing Smart Girls as a link track between Child Is Father Of The Man and Surfs Up ... it adds a certain ... um, charm which is lacking in Brian's original transition between tracks. Ofcourse I only use the original Smart Girls with the sampled tracks, not the shonky remake.

What's your SMiLE closer?

I still think "Surf's Up" is the best closing song, but I have toyed with my "Heroes And Villains Suite", mainly because of the "review" nature of the lyrics. Oddly enough, I've never used "Good Vibrations", which of course was chosen as the closer on BWPS....

In my mind, Surf's Up has always been the song to close it. It's the innocence before the westward expansion personified. The "hero" of SMiLE is looking back on everything, and reflecting on a more simple time, before it was nothing but "heroes" and "villians".

I'm at it again, I can't help it, it's neverending.... :police:

Yes or No question....I'm assuming there's no documentation, but, do you think "Diamond Head" had any - ANY - origin during the SMiLE sessions. Oh, how I want to put that after "I Love To Say Dada".

I heard that some of the ideas in "Diamond Head" sound similar to some experimental tape comps Brian did during Smile. It's clearly has the spirit of Smile, and it was written less than a year after the Smile sessions ended. I think it works good after "Little Pad", or "Cool, Cool Water" (the opening section of "Cool, Cool Water", followed by the water chant, which is then interrupted by the booming thunder of "Diamond Head"). "Cool, Cool Water" was a song that Brian said he wrote in March of '67, so it's another song I like to include in my Smile mixes, mainly because there's a finished version from the 60s, while "I Love to Say Dada" was never finished until BWPS.

Ooh, I like that; I'm gonna try it.

I'm so used to going Mrs. O'Leary's Cow / Water Chant / I Love To Say Dada. I guess I was too influenced by BWPS (as I wash my mouth out with soap)....

I did a SMiLE mix a while back where I tried to include just about everything (except the smog monologue and some of the vegetable arguments). I threw a lot of the random sound effects, chanting, and alternate versions of songs into the mix. It went Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains (8 minutes long), Barnyard Suite (I'm In Great Shape/Barnyard/OMP/YAMS), Holidays/3 Blind Mice, Do You Like Worms (with Tones and He Gives Speeches), Cabin Essence, My Little Red Book, With Me Tonight, Wonderful, Child, Look, Good Vibrations (10 minutes), The Elements (Vega-Tables/Wind Chimes/Mrs. O'Leary's Cow/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop/Cool Cool Water/I Love To Say Da Da), Surf's Up/Outro (clips from various SMiLE songs in the left channel, Bicycle Rider theme in right channel, fades into You're Welcome, ends with Brian asking Denny for hash joints and asking if the guys are feeling the acid yet.).

I'll bet that's a quite enjoyable trip. Did you ever give it to somebody who didn't know about SMiLE and get feedback from them?

Dada, back to your idea for a minute....What do you think about this?

"Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" going into the "Water Chant (from Sunflower)" going right into "Cool, Cool Water (the 1:12 boxed set version)", and, as soon as that ends with the "wwwaaattteeerrrr" part, go right into Diamond Head.

Not bad, sounds like it would work. I always like putting "I Wanna Be Around/Workshop" right after "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow". There seems to be evidence that Brian intended that originally (wasn't it called "Elements pt. 2" or something like that?), and putting it after "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" makes the most use of the musical/lyrical pun of "I Wanna Be Around/Workshop". The singer wants to be around to pick up the pieces when somebody breaks his heart (pick up the rubble of everything that's broken?), followed by the sound of construction, which also fits in with the rebuilding that had to be done in Chicago after the fire. Putting it next to "I'm in Great Shape" is a kind of meaningless juxtaposition, except for the fact that you could consider the workshop noises to be physical activity. Of course, the "Water Chant" is also a great juxtaposition with "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow", so what can you do?

I struggle with this one. There IS documentation to substantiate your theory (was it Carol Kaye who overheard Brian say it?). I guess I just prefer the water to put out the fire before I re-build the barn. I never liked to go from the "workshop" into water, assuming you put some water AFTER.

It probably wasn't Brian's intention (or maybe it was!), but I put "I Wanna Be Around/Workshop" right after "Cabinessence" I'll BUILD you a home on the range. Same theory as yours - using the hammers and saws on the barn; I just build it and you re-build it. :police:

I like that, never thought of that. It could work, playing off the romantic love hinted at in "Cabinessence".


Well, here's a thought I had. What if you follow "Workshop" with "I'm in Great Shape", followed by "Vegetables/Do A Lot", and then go into water, creating a health theme? Wouldn't sound as cool on vintage Smile comps because the '66 "I'm in Great Shape" takes floating around are pretty shoddy and incomplete, but it could work. The whole elemental theme of Smile is something you can play around with a lot, because it seems like there just was no coherent plan for it all. "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" took place in Chicago, so it could be looked at as setting a scene for the Midwestern farming themes of the following songs. And you know that you need water to farm, right? The "Water Chant" is farmers praying for rain. Then you're whisked away to Hawaii, a logical ending point for Smile. I don't know, I'm getting imaginative here...

just when i had sworn off driving myself bonkers with making endless smile mixes i read this and now i'm totally drawn back in. now my mind is racing with ideas. looks like it's off to go buy more CD-Rs!

That's great! I'd like to hear your ideas.

It's all harmless fun. You just get a chance to "play" Brian Wilson and assemble SMiLE. There's no right or wrong answers (unless Brian himself called me, and then I'd probably still argue with him ;D). It's just another way to enjoy the great SMiLE music.

Right now, I'm still debating whether to include "Tones". There's something about that track that is so "Brian". I know, I know, Carl's all over it....

I like IWBA after YAMS because the cello fade fits into the beginning on IWBA; and the subject goes from moping about their sunshine leaving them to picking up the pieces afterwards.

so as a result of the fresh ideas discussed in this thread i, for the first time, have good vibrations at the beginning of my mix. oh what the heck i'll just go ahead and write my recipe down...why not? this is one of the most interesting ones i've done thus far.
1. Our Prayer/Gee
2. Good Vibrations
3. Do You Like Worms? (i did a little magic to combine the original and the BWPS versions so as to have the verses complete but still retain the vintage "Bicycle Rider" and ending sections. I only use 30 seconds at the most of material from BWPS on my mix. the other section being I Wanna Be Around (04) sandwiched inbetween it' 1966 ancestors)
i thnk this is a strong first 3, you get your prayer which is the accepted opener, gee introduces the phrase heroes and villains and is an excellant lead in to Good Vibrations thematically, and Do You Like Worms? introduces our bicyle riding friend, and the HV theme, and places us geographically at Plymouth Rock

then i have my own configuration of a "Barnyard Suite"
4. Cabinessence (which i usually place after the other "Barnyard" songs, but the concept introduced earlier of having the workshop being the building of the "home on the range" sparked me to make the change.
5. I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop
6. Vega Tables
7. Barnyard (i use "All Day" as in intro for some reason) (sometimes i'll include "country air" somewhere around here if i'm feeling adventurous)
8. Holidays ( this is the one that always seem to not have a home in my mix, and i admit it seems out of place where it's at)

I didn't get too creative with the Elements
9. Wind Chimes
10. Fire
11. DaDa

i'm pretty set in my ways about how i structure Heroes and Villains (though i almost always place it at the beginning. I guess i can pretend this is the beginning of side 2, although i know i've already exceeded the side of an LP )

12. here i combine "Tag to part 1"and a HV section I can't remember the 'proper' name for
13. He Gives Speeches
14. Heroes and Villains
15. HV fade (the riding off into the sunset thingy)
16. Old Master Painter/YAMS
17. HV theme piano
i've always been really happy with that being my Heroes And Villains

and lastly, if it ain't broke don't fix it:
18. Wonderful
19. Look
20. CIAFOTM
21. Surf's Up
22. a reprise of "our prayer" editing to begin at around the 34 second mark

I'm so glad there is a place for me to discuss this. You're right Sheriff, it is so much fun to make these mixes. I'll be in garage band with the headphones on mixing stuff and my room mate will ask me what i'm doing and next thing you know i'm discussing smile and getting excited as if it were my own creation. Smile truly is one of a kind in this way and it's up to people like us to keep this alive. Obviously record companies can't be counted on so I guess we are the keepers of the Smile flame. We must continue on or else leave a world for our future generations in which BWPS IS smile by default. anyways keep the ideas coming!

I like your mix, Rocky. A couple of comments....

I keep changing the location of "Good Vibrations", between right where you put it, or somewhere in the middle after "Wind Chimes", actually "Whispering Winds" (on the WIND that lifts her perfume through the air).

I do like it at the beginning for four reasons. First, it was the first SMiLE song recorded. Second, it's a boy-meets-girl song and you have to meet her before you lose her. Third, it does sound great right after "Our Prayer". And fourth, I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE ELSE TO PUT IT! I will never close with it, that I know. I actually like to get it out of the way, if you know what I mean. However, it's been near the middle of mine for awhile now. Go figure....

Question - not arguing, just asking - why did you put "Barnyard" between "Vegetables" and "Holidays"? He's carting off the vegetables, not going out to the barnyard. :pb

Do you link "Wonderful" to "Look" to "CIFOTM" to "Surf's Up" a la BWPS? Or utilize the fades?

  haha true. actually i did have vegetables coming after Barnyard but i got too lazy to edit out the trail end of the workshop noises at the beginning of "Vegetables" because i'm using Purple Chick's version (shhhh! don't tell) so yeah it would fit better the other way around if i can just edit it differently so it's smoother.


i link them (seems so easy to do) but one thing i will never give up is the fade out of "Surf's Up" the way it just drifts away is one of the most beautiful moments on smile IMO. and then just as it fades into silence i fade in Our Prayer from about the 34 sec mark. makes for a nice ending.

BTW did you happen to notice that you just posted post # 1967?  :)

It was fate, but my next post won't be about Friends....

Hey, you know what I've been using as a closer, after "Surf's Up" of course? A hidden track!

I take that 30 second snippet from "Carl's Coda", from the Hawthorne CD, that low a capella "boys...girls...boys...girls...It's a part of "Heroes And Villains", you know what I'm referring to? It's so innocent, sounds cool after "Surf's Up" , and it "wraps up" what I believe to be one of Brian's main themes of SMiLE - the "Heroes And Villains" theme.

wow i had forgotten all about that at the end of Hawthorne! that's really clever! I've always tried to think of some sort of sound effect from one of the dialogue/humour sessions to stick at the end, kind of like pet sounds, but it always seems tacky.

In one of my very first SMiLE mixes - before I had a lot of the stuff and was still using cassettes - I tried to emulate the Pet Sounds' ending on my SMiLE mix. So, I actually ended with "Wonderful" (I still think it's a great ending song, and David Leaf used it that way on Beautiful Dreamer years later) and followed it (ended the tape) with that "Heroes And Villains" :47 track only snippet from CD 5 from the boxed set. I always loved the "she belongs there" from "Wonderful" followed by the guy riding off into the sunset. In other words, "Wonderful" was "Caroline No", and the "Heroes And Villains" snippet took the place of the train. No barking dogs, however...

I've tried the same :47 "Heroes And Villains" snippet after "Surf's Up" but it doesn't quite work. Works great after "Wonderful" though....

I had a long train journey yesterday, so put all the Smile snippets i could on my phone and saw what i could do.. then have just been adding some finishing touches today. I tried to make it quite 'weird'  ;D

Our Prayer
Tape explosion (if you fade it in on the last note of Prayer, it sounds dead intense)
Flutter with strings
H&V (Brian and Mike Version) verse 1.
Have the acapella break, but fade up the bells intro so it ends just after that finishes, chiming into....
Who ran the Iron Horse?
Bicycle Rider
La-la
cantina
sunny down snuff, but with the words removed until 'and sunny down snuff...'
Who ran the iron horse w/truck drving man
Bridge to indians
false barnyard

what do you think?

I have to hear it to appreciate it, to hear how it flows. You know, I've never heard the Brian and Mike version of "Heroes & Villains".

I always think in the back of my mind that it would've been the version released if SMiLE would've been finished. After all, Mike would've been a part of the LEAD single as he was in the past...

I've revisted my Smile mix as well.  It has grown to four movements:
Americana
Vitality
The Elements
Humana

Virtually everything is from '66 to '68, excepting the finished Surf's Up.  I'm still working on the Americana section so it's a work in progress.

Americana:
Our Prayer
Spanish Guitar
H & V intro (Fire intro)/horns
Heroes & Villains Pt. 1 (Mostly stereo version from Hawthorne)
Roll Plymouth Rock (DYLW)
How I Love My Girl (Gee)
My Only Sunshine
H & V link (duh, duh, duh H & V)
Ol' Man River (SS bonus track)
H & V intro (includes Bicycle Rider)
Heroes & Villains Pt. 2 (Cantina, Sunset ending)
String Bridge, clip clop (The lead into Cabinessence is absolutely exquisite!)
Cabinessence 

Vitality:
Mama Says short intro
Vegetables/H&V tag
Mama Says Poof snippet
I'm in Great Shape
Time to Get Alone (Hawthorne)
Love to Say Dada (just the wah wah ho wah)
Little Pad (minus the beginning)
Water Chant
Cool, Cool Water
Prayer reprise
Good Vibrations

The Elements:
H & V piano theme
Earth intro (Fuzz tone from SS Wind Chimes, small portion of George Fell-Woody Woodpecker part)
Fall Breaks and Back to Winter
Air intro ( Portion of Holidays, Whispering Winds, SS Wind Chimes)
Wind Chimes
Fire intro (bass sounds from George Fell)
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow
Diamond Head
Hawai'ian chant from RPR (DYLW)

I've taken some liberties with the opening track from the final section. 
Humana:
You're Welcome/ Can't Wait Too Long/With Me Tonight/Can't Wait Too Long edited into a 3 1/2 minute song
Walk On By  (I'm toying with using Friends as well)
Wonderful
Song for Children (Look)
Child is Father
Surf's Up
Prayer reprise (still toying with that)

I'm into the link track idea.  It does get a bit maddening but when something works right it becomes apparent.  It sounds terribly busy but flows extremely well.  Naturally, this would have required SMiLE to be a double album.

Is it possible that the "Good Vibrations Good Vibrations Good Vibrations" on the SMiLE album cover was only alluding to the song and suggesting that it's an album with the same sort of theme?

I've never really enjoyed it on any mixes I've heard, and especially not on BWPS. Might this be because it's the only track that was completely finished and sticks out a bit?

I read somewhere that Brian included "Gee" because it reminded him of "Barbara Ann" which he heard in a bookstore before he had an 'episode'.


I've never thought of GV as an album track, although I really enjoy listening to Smiley and hearing the dramatic contrast between Little Pad to Good Vibrations and back to With Me Tonight. In some unexplainable way it works in that context.

sofonanm, do you have a personal SMiLE mix? 

I started one a few years ago with ambition but never got around to finishing it.  :-D

Spring is here, it's almost summer, NOW is the time to finish it! :police:

I'm starting to think about trying to do a H&V version without the In The Cantina section. In it's place would be I'm In Great Shape. The "In The Cantina" section would be a track on it's own. Then it would go into "you're under arrest!", followed by "at three score and five", and on to the False Barnyard fade. Does any of this sound like a workable idea, or am I just being waaaaay to ambitious?

In my opinion, one cannot be too ambitious.  An ambitious project requires much thought and creativity.  Following through on that ambition can be a rather daunting task, however.  But, in doing so, you may get a small taste of what Brian went through in attempting to piece it all together.  I have In the Cantina as a separate movement right now but I've gone back and forth with an extended version of H&V and two distinct pieces.  SMiLE mixes are often dictated by one's mood at the time. 

Yeah, I know what you mean. For a long time, I didn't want to include any material past May 1967 or the "I Love To Say Dada" sessions. But, my stance gradually changed, based on my mood(s) I guess, to at least consider later stuff. Now, I'm toying around with using the "Cool Cool Water" track, the short one, from the boxed set. I've also been playing around with "Diamond Head" for a few weeks now. You know that thread we had going about asking Brian one question; well, right now I'd like to ask him about that early BWPS list that was circulating, with some of those interesting titles on there...

Yeah, the early BWPS list had "Time to Get Alone" on it, too. Which I could see. I always thought it sounded like a mix of "Home on the Range" from "Cabinessence" with the early versions of "With Me Tonight". It doesn't have VDP lyrics through.

There's some kind of instrumental insert recorded for Time To Get Alone. I couldn't even recognize what it was on my first (and only) listen. Sounded like some kind of piano playing a really bouncy feel. Very Smile-like.

On your mixes, does anybody use two/both versions of "Child Is Father Of The Man" -  the "regular" one, and the one that starts with the piano followed by that high "child" part? If yes, do you separate them and/or put them at different places?

Highly agreed.

Semester is almost over...maybe I'll make yet another mix over the summer.  :) May try more different things: make the Elements just fire and water ala the original plan, Put "I Ran" back in there since Brian has indicated it was an instrumental (yes, there was a vocal session but perhaps it was just backing harmonies and even at that, eventually not considered good and junked.)

This is the first I've heard that Brian had indicated that Look/I Ran was going to be an instrumental back then.  When did he say that?  Not that I don't believe it, I just hadn't heard that before.  I always figured that the vocal session could have been some wordless backing vocals, but it would be nice to know for sure. 

I heard someone on the board say that he said that...

So I heard it from a friend of a friend of a friend I guess  ;D

Seriously, I think Andrew Doe or someone of that ilk say it.

Anybody put "Look" as their FIRST song of their SMiLE mix, or near the beginning? 

Never have. I've put in the middle in the past (like BWPS)

I think some combo of Our Prayer/H+V/Worms/OMP-YAMS is a pretty satisfying beginning. After that, it can go anywhere.

If only I could get my hands on some Beach Boys multitrack masters...I would LOVE to play around with one of their songs!  Unfortunately that will likely never happen.  :-(

Awesoman, care to share any ideas or special mixes or running orders that you've been using? :police: