The Smiley Smile Message Board

Actually, not just Bicycle Rider ...  but anyone who still cares about Smile.  On this, the successor to the Smile Shop board, we have a 3-page thread about unavailable BB tracks people want to hear--and only one poster includes Smiles tracks.  Not a single person mentions the fabled early version of H&V.  Instead, people would rather hear classics such as "Bruce's Ten Years Harmony demo."  And as of today there's a 5-page thread on Mike Love's solo album.  I imagine the comments are not positive ... but man, why even bother discussing it?

Has it really come to this?  No one even cares about the still-lost Smile recordings enough to wish for them?  And they would rather hear '70s and '80s outtakes--even from Bruce Johnston?  Unfortunately, this Smile malaise seems to be present throughout the Net.  One Smile Yahoo group that used to be active every day now gets one or two posts a year.  A number of sites clearly haven't been updated in years.

Yes, I know that the BW-released album created a sense of finality for a lot of people.  But I never thought interest would fall so far, so fast.  The shame of it is that to the extent there's any chance of additional unreleased, unbooted Smile tracks coming out, the lack of enthusiasm among even BB fans will surely weigh against that.

OK, that's it.  Sorry for the whining.

SMILE was a great mystery. We all had ideas/fantasies/hopes about the project. And then, our prayer(s) (pun intended) were answered. SMILE was released. We could now here SMiLE as it was intended. Is it the 1967 SMiLE? Yes.....and No. But it is SMiLE. But to stop talking about the the BB other unreleased gems, as well as their history, would be a crime.

SMiLE - clues solved....where THOSE clues lead.......always interesting.

With BWPS, you pretty much had Brian's and Van Dyke's last comments on the subject. Maybe Brian forgot tons about it, maybe he remembered all he had been up to till mid-67, but you aren't going to have anything more from him. If there won't be an official boxset with the sixties recordings while Brian's alive, Al, Bruce and Mike haven't got any reason to talk or try to remember anything about it either. Anderle, Vosse, Schwarz and the rest said all they had to say in Leaf's docu.

So, everyone's is 99,9% sure that what's circulating out there is all we are ever going to listen to or know about Smile. That's all. I'd rather debate Bambu or the MIU sessions.

I don't follow the last two posts. Far as I'm concerned, you can take it as a given that anything and everything SMiLE-related that we don't already have in glorious sound quality should be on the list of must-haves. Which means virtually everything.  I just assumed that it was taken for granted that SMiLE is still the must-have. For all BWPS is regarded as the last word, it, erm, isn't the last word.

Top of my list (this week) would be the long-lost (Misfiled? Trashed? Stolen?) Columbia vocal sessions.

That's quite a definitive statement.  And yet, a very credible poster to this very board has heard Smile material that has not been booted or released.  I certainly don't know all the details, but I recall reading about a version of H&V he heard that included a section of With Me Tonight with bells & whistles overdubs.  But you're 99.9% sure that the rest of us will never hear this?  How can you be so confident?

I didn't post on that other thread, but my "wish list" would be almost exclusively SMiLE tracks (save for "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again").  I think there is still a fair amount that we haven't heard yet, especially things that only exist on acetates in the hands of various people.  Not to mention, like Wee Helper said, there are plenty of things that ARE out there that we don't have in pristine sound quality. 

I know others feel differently, but for me BWPS didn't provide any "closure" at all.  If anything, it only raised more questions, and didn't really answer much of anything.  So anything new found from the original sessions at this point would be at the top of my list of things I would want to hear.

Of course original Smile material is interesting. But remember, a lot of people aren't really interested in sessions. Final products (or nearly final, or could-be-considered final products) are a different thing altogether. But how many other Smile songs are there in that state?

I'm not dismissing it. And I like sessions...sometimes. But every little nuance of every little take isn't interesting to everyone.

Second, the other Beach Boys were talented, too. No, I don't like Mike Love's solo work. And while I think Bruce was a talented guy, he's of moderate interest at most to me. But what's wrong with wanting to hear those guys' music? The Beach Boys were more than Brian; finished, unreleased songs of the others might be more interesting to some people than Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track.

I love Smile and Pet Sounds but am slightly burned out on them. As far as Pet Sounds, the original mono album  and maybe half a dozen outtakes suffice. That music I still treasure, but the sessions are mostly things I find interesting to hear once and then file away.

Smile I have heard so many sessions and outtakes, and read books and articles etc. Don't get me wrong there is nothing else like Brian's 1966 work, but it wasn't the only time he was interesting. If there are things that are significantly different that what I heard then great, but I agree that horn overdubs and slightly different edits are of minor interest. If they did an official triple record set ala POB on Smile I am sure I would love it, but again so much has been said on it that I don't always open Smile threads on here. Why?  I feel that it has been extensively covered and discusse, there is little mystery in it for me anymore. At the same time I am glad that many see through the Brian is God myth and the Mike Love is Satan one as well.

Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to hear what you want to hear.  I was just amazed that so few people still seem to want to hear Smile material.  And you're setting up a strawman by comparing "finished unreleased songs of the others" to "Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track."  A number of the wish list items in the thread on this board are for demos or alternates (thus my reference to someone wishing for "Bruce's Ten Years Harmony demo").  And I see no reason to believe that we can only hope for extremely minor alternates or overdubs to the Smile tracks we already have.  Again, the early version of H&V (not the Cantina version, but the one that incorporated Barnyard, I'm in Great Shape and/or With Me Tonight) would likely be very, very different than anything we've heard.

There is a reason this board is called Smiley Smile. Because we have moved passed Smile. :) JK

...yeah but not really. Yes in 2004 we could hear it as it was finally decided upon many years after the fact in a very different setting by two artists who were coming from a much different place in 2004 then they were in 1966. What I, as well as many others, have been longing for is for Smile to have it's day as a release of what it was, incomplete as it may be.  To say that we can hear smile as it was intended isn't really true. Regardless of which version is better or complete or whatever, that's debatable based on your taste and opinion, but clearly there is a huge difference between what smile was intended to be, what it existed as at the point it was left in '67, and then what it became as a finished product decades later. For the only release of Smile to be the 2004 version just leaves way too many empty spaces to satisfy my love for the album.

Well naturally. That's virtually the only way to make a point ... I find nuance doesn't do well on message boards.

But really (as you may have guessed) I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to hear anything, including the sessions I've mocked, even though I don't obsess about or catalogue them, and get bored reading people's discussions whether (and guess what, this is an exaggeration alert again) the phrasing of the violinist makes the 15th take superior to the released version. But hey, I get tired of reading most anyone's discussion of any unreleased music, since it tends to quickly become obvious how the point isn't the music, but the hip factor of the person who has found the means of hearing it.

That said, why do I post here? Great question. Either I love the music or I'm a masochist. Or both. Probably both.

And in all seriousness, I see you're a relatively new poster. Welcome aboard. Don't take my sarcasm seriously, ever. I mean no offense (ever).

I agree, Chris. It did raise more questions. But I didn't think people cared enough about it (BWPS) to ask those questions or feel like examining it. Maybe, deep down inside, listeners don't take it nearly as seriously as the 1966-67 sessions. Just my opinion.

Jeff, I think the interest in SMiLE is still there. If you start a thread about a SMiLE song, a session, a title, or how Mike Love felt about it, you'll usually get some good responses, at least a couple of pages of posts. Try it, do you have a topic in mind?

I modified my post a bit.

Certainly the speculation has faded somewhat since BWPS appeared but as the Sherrif says the interest is still here ... just not at the feverish pace it was for so many years. There's been three SMiLE threads recently: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=6617.0   ,   http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=6644.0   and   http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=6620.0

The third thread got me all worked up over the Chrissie/New Year break to listen to a lot of the original SMiLE stuff. I guess one of the things that struck me was that the last "new thing" we heard from SMiLE was BWPS back in '04. When was the last time a 66/67 recording leaked out into the public domain? We seem to have been talking about the same stuff for several years now without any great advancement, revelations or ephanies.  

As somebody who has been around since the early days of Mike Wheeler's Cabinessnce Board and the old SMiLE Board I must admit that the lack of new activity and the de-ja-vu-ness of the "new" discussions does leave one a bit worn out. No offence to the posts above but I just went through the Barnshine de-ja-vu for about the 50th time.

We need a good "leaking", an AntBee/Vigotone controversy or a Rock With Me Henry to stir things up!!  

There are basically two categories for Smile music that's out in the wild: stuff that's been widely booted that we've all heard and stuff that's being hoarded that we're unlikely to hear any time soon.  Apart from the occasional Secret Smile or Big Grin sort of release with a new fragment or two of interest, I don't see that changing.  And if there's anything substantive left in the vault, one would have to assume they're keeping a tight lid on it these days in light of all the tapes that have been copied, stolen, or misplaced in the past.

Thanks for the tip  - just found Big Grin!   ;D

Yeah, I don't know if we will ever gonna hear anything new from 66/67. What I meant is, folk's expectations are very low nowadays, so there is a general 'why bother' reaction. That's what Jeff asked, why has interest fallen so far, so fast?

I'm one of those weird people who would love to hear an alternate take of a clarinet solo from the SMiLE sessions. I don't know what it is about the SMiLE music; I mean, a lot of it isn't a mystery anymore (at least compared to what we knew, say, 10 years ago when it was harder to come by stuff). It's just something that I can't explain-it's almost like Brian's belief back in the day that the music he was making was 'spritual' or 'powerful', The music moves me.
 One snippet of SMiLE that I loved for years was the end of 'OMP/YAMS'. The descending strings after the sax. Maybe because it was so mournful souding, and that's the exact opposite of what people always imagine Brian writing. I just loved it.

I think we will hear more eventually, just not anytime soon.  Like Todd said, its likely that the remaining "undiscovered" pieces that we haven't heard are in trusted hands, and not in consideration for any public release at the moment. 

I think there will come a point where a Smile Sessions box set is assembled, and it will include stuff we've never heard before, but that won't happen until Brian is gone.

Personally, I can't have enough of SMiLE. I could listen to it all day if I wanted to.

I think almost all of us felt, feel or will feel (or some combination thereof) that way. But just as it's something that can absorb a guy for a solid day, week or month, for me it's something to be put aside every now and again. It isn't intentional, or even a falling-out-of-love. It's just the ebb and tide, you know? There is so much music in the world, a guy can't miss it all just for one (unreleased) album.

Agree, Chris, but I think it will happen while Brian's still around. I think somebody from Capitol Records, who also might be a knowledgable fan, will get close with Melinda and Brian, and sell them the idea of a SMiLE boxed set. It will probably occur when Brian's career is close to being a wrap, and money will play a part. I'm confident there would be enough qualified people around to make sure it's done right, but a concern of mine would be the accompanying notes/booklet. There's bound to be contradictions, banal comments from Brian, and the usual off-the-wall comments from Al and Bruce. If there could just be a guy who could sit down with Brian and Van Dyke, in a number of sessions/interviews, and keep the tape recorder running....If they want me, I'll work cheap! :police:

The contradictions, at least, I think would be great. Think of the Beatles Anthology, when you go from Ringo saying they were stoned out of their minds to Paul saying they were sober to George saying he's not sure. I think the honest presentation of conflict and contradiction makes for the best picture. No, it wouldn't make a clean narrative, but there is no clean narrative even in the present, much less the ever-more-distant past.

And so on that ^ note, Smile deserves a real documentary. Not Beautiful Dreamer.

Then I guess that would rule out David Leaf as producer. You know, his documentaries are pretty good, actually. Have you seen some of them? But, with Brian Wilson and SMiLE, you know how that's gonna come out. I wonder if it would be tough for David Leaf to turn a SMiLE documentary over to somebody other than himself.

Stolen tapes, thats what disturbs me the most. We may have boots of these tapes, but we may not. And if thats so, we're even less likely to ever hear them.

I also think that you have to take into account that alot of people haven't heard absolutely everything that's already available. For example, how long has the 'I'm In Great Shape' session been available? A couple of years, and I've only heard it for the first time a couple of months ago. The same goes with 'Tones',  'All Day',  'Little Red Book'. And aren't 'Cabinessence' sessions around? I haven't even listened to those.

I'm still here.

My understanding of the what unreleased songs you want to hear post was what unreleased songs that we KNOW EXIST in the BB vaults do we want to hear.

There is very little in the vaults left that has not been released "unofficially" from Smile, at least according to the tape vault search done a few years ago by Alan.  Doesn't mean stuff won't turn up in the future, but if we want to petition for something to be released, I'd like to request tapes I know are there.

For me, I want EVERY alternate sax overdub, instrumental take, vocal session, alternate mix, acetate, burp and fart from the Smile sessions released, officially.

I have heard ALOT of the SMILE stuff, both offical and unoffical, as well as alot of stuff that isn't out there yet. What is left is alot of "variations on a theme" kind of stuff. Worms with this kind of drum hit verus that. Try playing you rviolin like this....oh that sounded bad never mind kind of stuff.

When I was but a puppy (in my teens and 20's), I could listen to this stuff forever. And I mean forever. There were people I knew who would listen to newly leaked stuff with a pen and pad to write down what they were hearing. But now at 50, I can't do it. But also, having heard most of it, it all runs together.

But hey, give me something new, and I am like a kid again, listening, punching rewind, listening again.....and again....and again......

Hmmm, reading through this has jolted my memory: After the SOT Smile set was released the Vigotone people (person) were preparing their own SMiLE box set which was rumoured (I stress rumoured) to have unheard SMiLE pieces. Vigotone released the Heroes & Vibrations set as a teaser and then they got busted. Does anybody know what happened to the Vigo SMiLE stuff? Is that what ended up on Archaeology?

The All Day / Great Shape/ Cabinessce tapes hve been around since about 2000. As for the Vigotone stuff,  who knows? But it wasn't on Archology. Those tracks had been around forever.

I've wondered what became of the Vigotone stuff too.  According to this article (http://bomplist.xnet2.com/0305/msg01401.html), he cooperated and turned over all his material but I've never heard of any specific tapes being recovered.  It seems like Alan Boyd or others would have mentioned it if they got anything back.  ???

This is just my personal view, not from any thing I know first hand. But with very rare exceptions, most of the tapes that leak are copies and not originals. And there have been times when copies that former engineers have made of tracks (and not bootleged them) have been the only copy able to be found for certain tracks. I know for sure that the version of Wonderful on the 93 boxset with Brian singing lead came from a safety copy of the SMiLE tracks that a former engineer made for his own enjoyment, nothing more. In fact, he gave that reel to BRI so they (and now we) could enjoy this track.

And remember that 2 CD set of Beatles BBC appearances that came out right before the Anthology set back in 1993? The BBC and EMI had destroyed their copies of several tapes and put the word out to collector for help. Many of the tracks were found that way as the BBC shows were sent to BBC outlets in places like INDIA on LP. And collectors sought out those LPs which the stations would just file away.

So illigeal manufacturing of someone's copyright material is always bad. But collectors sometimes care more than the record companies about their own artist.

As a side note, remember the 1981 BW rarities LP from Austrailia? It was sourced totally from viynl, except the version of what'd i say. So it's a record copied from other records.

I would like to put two cents (more or less) in here, because this is a very interesting thread.

There is a difference between a barely audible nuance in the (instrument of choice) solo in the
31st take of a given SMiLE track or session and an entirely unheard snippet, however short or
insubstantial. There is an atmosphere, vibe, what have you that permeates the original mater-
ial that is uniquely compelling, and makes EVERY new revelation of previously unheard material,
however fragmentary, irreplaceably exciting. This is from someone who appreciates all the
group's (better) music, not with a single-minded, obsessive SMiLE-only fixation.

Not to be politically incorrect (heaven forbid), but when one of the more recent boots came out,
with previously booted tracks but with more instrumentation added than the takes previously available, I
remember getting a familiar shiver, which can come only from hearing freshly discovered SMiLE stuff, from the "Child is Father of the Man, early version", especially the tag. Those little groups of material that seem to leak every few years are priceless, and maybe it shouldn't be discussed here, but are
Secret Smile and Big Grin recent releases that contain small but delicately gorgeous revelations of this kind?

Maybe it won't happen until Brian is no longer with us (may that day be far away) but whether
BWPS is the last word that the principals will ever have on the subject or not, it is definitely not
actually the last word on the music, and I for one pray that every bit of extant unheard music,
whether in private collections, the vaults (doubtful), acetates or what have you will someday see the light of day in some form, because it is irreplaceably evocative and invaluable, at least to those who resonate with and love it, because of course it is not everyone's cup of tea. ;D

Well said, Muted.

Also, I was wondering about tracks that some people say exist, but do they? For example, all of us old Smile Shop regulars probably remember a Mr. Desmond Jones who claimed to have heard a 'Do A Lot' with sound effects over the back of it-I want to say it was the sounds of pots and pans, and I swear he said brushing teeth. Does this really exist, or was it just someone pulling the boards collective leg?

Luther-

Thanks.  No offense taken, and I appreciate the welcome.  I actually used to post years ago when the board was part of the Smile Shop, but I haven't been doint that recently.  So maybe my question in this thread is in part directed at myself...

Yeah I know, the title of the thread was a not-so-clever play on "where have you gone Joe Dimaggio."  Apparently when Dimaggio (never the hippest guy) heard the song, he said something to the effect of "what do you mean, I'm right here," and he considered suing for defamation.  I'll hope to avoid that misunderstanding with you.  :)

In all seriousness, I do value your posts and those of others who have been at this for a while.

I don't want to get into areas that are off-limits, but I spoke at length with the elusive fellow you
mentioned at length a few years back, and there are some hair-raising stories about him, as you
may know. I can't remember all the specifics, but he claimed to have unique material, and was
trying to edit or otherwise assemble some of it himself, and played a coherent, complete-sounding
"Love to Say Da Da" over the phone, with sound effects added, but who knows whether he put it together himself or not. I think BRI was trying to work out a deal to purchase his material outright,
thus being able to at least identify and catalogue it, but it never materialized.

Mysterious, ain't it? ???

Could Wee Helper or someone possibly send a personal message about Big Grin and Secret Smile?

So you're saying that, perhaps, he was full of it, but perhaps he was the real deal? The only thing I remember about his appearances on the board was that people seemed to take him seriously for some reason, while others like someone named 'The Bellagio Insider' ended up being run off the board. I think Bellagio was the one who claimed to have heard 'A Barnyard Suite' and said that it told the story of 'Barnyard Billy'. Of course, there also was the time some kid claimed to have a 2nd handwritten note that had 'ILTSDD' on it....

Just to add to what Bob's going at here....I believe these previously mentioned sessions and the so-called "Psychedelic Sounds", plus a few other tidbits, were from the massive copying campaign, the "American Band" thing, like it's called. As other boots have showed us, not all of the available material made it to SOTs.

Problem too with a lot of Smile session material is a wealth of material that's been cassette-taped to death. I know the magic's in the hiss. There you will find your clarinet bleed-through. :)

Oh god. The kid whose mother supposedly worked for Capitol in sixties? Holy Jake Foutz.

I always thought that the SECRET SMILE bootleg set incorporated most of what Vigotone had to offer (that would have been new to bootleg in their SMILE box that never made it out)?

Also a few years back John Hunt from the SMILE SHOP was working on a book about SMILE outtakes with Doug Sulpy that was (from what I understood) to be like Doug's "910's GUIDE TO BEATLES OUTTAKES" books -- that would incorpoate every SMILE session tape available and correspond it to the best available sounding version on bootleg for us collectors. Has anyone  since, attempted to do this,--possibly online since the Hunt/Sulpy book never was completed?

Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"
:)

Yes, I have. Recently. For archival/catalog purposes.

hi everyone, this is my first post....i've been enjoying this excellent thread, and having recently changed my thinking about SMiLE i thought i'd give posting a shot........i remember the cabinessance board, and i miss the great smile shop.....sometimes it appears that the internet was created to allow the SMiLE community to come together and discuss this great album...i grew up a huge beach boys fan but took a breather from the band after college as i got into different music and flew myself on the other side of the world in china.....then on my 30th birthday, a friend played the SMiLE tunes from the BB box set....i remember hearing wind chimes for the first time and simply being blown away, i had to pick my jaw off the floor.  it was so different from anything i had heard while at the same time capturing perfectly the psychedelic beach boys sound that made it so contemporary for those times...soon after i was able to find some more SMiLE stuff, heroes & villains sessions, sea of tunes all of it...i made SMiLE cassettes and mixes playing them for people who after a few bars would ask me, 'is this really the beach boys?'

i grew up in a house with lots of books about the kennedy administration, and no matter how many times i thumbed through those books, the ending was the same, kennedy was shot, and the dream died.  it was the same for SMiLE, no matter how much new stuff i found, the ending was still the same, no official release of SMiLE and more wonder of what it could have been..... 

so when brian finally released BWPS, my happiness was tempered by the fact that it wasn't the beach boys' SMiLE.  there's so much magic in their voices, and they sound so cool and tight on the SMiLE sessions, whether it's cabinessance, child is the father of the man, vegetables, etc.  but i was still blown away by brian's ability to recreate the sound of that era and after few listens, i came to really like BWPS back in 2004, but i would still go back to the sessions, back to mok's mix as a part of me still wished for a Beach Boys' SMiLE sessions box set with copious liner notes, lots of photos, and maybe an attempt at a single beach boys' SMiLE album.

since 2004, it seems about twice a year, i get into a SMiLE rut, playing the sessions, playing sea of tunes, mok's SMiLE, even some of the stranger mixes like the millenium edition sometimes called Dumb Angel, and then i would play BWPS, but i'd still be hoping, wishing, wondering if we'd ever see all the stuff finally made available....but as i said above the ending's always the same....except brian & van dyke did complete their version and it continued to grow on me...

a couple of weeks ago, on a saturday nite over the holidays, i asked my wife if she'd like to watch a story with a happy ending.  she knows who the beach boys are but doesn't know the stories about the band and SMiLE.  so we sat down to watch BEAUTIFUL DREAMER and then BWPS.  and watching it again, [it was my 3rd time] and seeing van dyke and brian working together and reminding myself of everything that brian had to go through to even be alive at this point i realized more deeply that it's simply remarkable that we have a completed version of SMiLE and one that seems to get better every time i listen to it.....

this latest SMiLE rut has got me back on the net, back to sites such as yours, with folks looking for other possible hidden gems, as well as asking the inevitable 'will we ever see a Beach Boys' SMiLE released, or will Capitol ever release a SMiLE sessions?'....but the difference in me after all these years is now i've come to accept and treasure BWPS.  yes, i miss carl's, dennis', al's and mike's voices, and of course i miss young brian's voice.  i also wish they didn't leave some stuff on the floor, but overall, the album is a punchy and upbeat song cycle.  and the production still amazes me, i mean it sounds as if it was recorded in 67. 

reading this thread, i can relate to those fans that still want a SMiLE sessions box set, but i think the window for that release is growing even shorter every day.  the simple fact is that with every year, there's less incentive to release physical music product as cd sales continue to drop.  in a few years, a SMiLE sessions box set may not even be a break even proposition.  but i'm ok with that now, because we have a completed version of SMiLE and it's great....the SMiLE story has an incredible unbelievable happy ending... 

as for what other unreleased stuff i'd like to hear, that's pretty easy, any tunes from the surf's up to holland era, and everything recorded for beach boys in concert with blondie and ricky.  where are the tracks that were recorded for the initial single lp?  a live version of you need a mess of help?  live river song? blondie singing wild honey? i'd even like to hear mike channel jagger on jumping jack flash....thanks, tim

The song took a few listens before I liked it but I do...all versions. My favorite version is probably the BWPS one, though I guess the Purple Chick mix is the one I listen too. In other words, I like the choruses, I like the cantina part and I like the ending of the SS version. I do like the "false barnyard" section of the alternate take, but one can't have everything.

For me, the "false barnyard" section is the perfect ending.  It has a great "riding off into the sunset" type of vibe that wraps everything up perfectly.  The ending of the single mix and of the BWPS version don't have the same impact for me.

I prefer the workout on the USM box set, where the tune is played with plucked strings at a slower pace. Crazy, but for me that conjures up a picture of hen chicks strutting their stuff in unison to the music (aka dancing) on a cobbled farmyard. That image has been in my head since the day I first heard the tune (is it really a decade since that box came out?).  I wonder whether Brian had intentions for that version? was it to be another musical theme, like the Bicycle Rider theme, or With Me Tonight?

No and Yes. ;D

Welcome to the board, Tim. Of course we will never see a Beach Boys' SMiLE a la BWPS, but, I believe the time will come for a Capitol Records' boxed set, especially now that The Beach Boys AND Brian (is he still under contract) are back with Capitol.

You talked about that "window growing shorter" for any SMiLE release. That window will never close. There will come a time when The Beach Boys are winding down, Brian is about ready to call it a day, Capitol might want something other than another Greatest Hits comp, and the time will be right. As long as $$$$$$$$$ are involved, there will always be that possiblity. In my opinion, that was the main reason for Brian's camp proceeding with BWPS. Brian is quoted as saying that his "wife thought it was a good time to finish SMiLE." After Imagination, Pet Sounds Live, and Gettin' In Over My Head, I'll bet she did. I'll bet she did indeed....

:lol you hit the nail on the head my friend

Ask about the 20+ takes of I'm In Great Shape apparently found in the vaults a few years ago...

And wonder where Brian's Sony Porta-Pak video footage is from late '66, when Sony gifted him the video setup and Brian shot footage of Smile-era goings-on.

Someone years ago mentioned Smile "demos", but never got any further than that.

And the KHJ channel 9 television dance show where Brian was on live to premiere Good Vibrations...rumored not to exist at all but so have other TV things that have surfaced, like original open reel *color* videotape of Johnny Carson's Tonight Show in the early 60's, copies given to workers and associates. I think it was on Sam Riddle's show "9th Street West", but I could be remembering that wrong.

And any airchecks of KHJ from the summer '67 Heroes era would be so welcome...one featuring the song turned up scoped which was recorded probably days after the on-air refusal from Tom Maule to play the record which Brian had brought to the station.

And any Vegetables-related footage, like photos of the Blaine-Brian pool match shot by Guy Webster...

And the film which was being shot at a Good Vibrations studio session by "Bob"...


So much out there to find, I just wish I hadn't been listing those exact same lost/missing items more or less for at least 4 years now to no avail. At all. Still fun to wish, though.

guitarfool2002, you are "wishing" for these things, but the bigger question is, why is Brian's camp not pursuing EVERY piece of SMiLE-related material available?

In reading numerous interviews from Brian over the years, it's obvious he doesn't look back very often, doesn't really discuss his past work in depth, and, especially with SMiLE, doesn't like to go there. But why isn't anybody else?

Nobody disputes the greatness of SMiLE, including Brian. He knows its greatness. But, does he/they know its IMPORTANCE. I don't think so. Just take Paul McCartney for example. What if Paul or The Beatles composed and recorded a year's worth of material that was considered to be their best work, and legendary. Don't you think Paul would want to have all of it. Don't you think he would want people to hear it. It wouldn't have to be Paul's job to search for and compile it. Somebody like a Paul McCartney could easily employ someone to accomplish that task.

And so could Brian Wilson. I know Brian didn't make a lot of money in his solo career, but he's still loaded. How much would it cost to employ an individual to research and acquire ALL SMiLE-related material out there? Why isn't somebody related to Brian - family or businesswise - interested in pursuing this? Kind of like James Guercio did with Pacific Ocean Blue after all those years. Isn't SMiLE THAT important? To anybody? I'd do it. And I'd work cheap, and give 100% :police:

I have been "wishing" for these things for years now, and the wish list only got longer as more info and evidence came out.

But honestly Sheriff, what has come out of any interest since Hawthorne some 7-8 years ago or whatever it was? And even that was mostly devoid of Smile material and what was included was new edits of tapes that would have been more compelling if left alone.

And nothing happens! Even with a project that would have opened the vaults and sold access to some gems online, the whole thing eventually stalled out and is *still* a dead end as far as we know.

Wishing for this stuff and having little or nothing present itself for over 4 years is why I really can't get hopes too high for something like you describe to happen. It's the same reasons why something compelling like "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" has still not been released officially...not including the remake which won a Grammy.

That's great to think an alternative version of H&V does, allegedly, exist. Did anyone grill that guy about what form that version actually took i.e. where With Me Tonight sat in the overall structure of the song?

That's the one Smile song I'd really love to hear in different incarnations. One incorporating Great Shape and Barnyard would probably be top of my list.

YES YES YES

Is this available for us to access or can it be made available?

Thanking in advance!

Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"
:)

Well said. I was expecting some closure from BWPS but as you said it didn't really answer much at all. After all of the BWPS activity we still don't know what IIGS was, what the '66 lyrics of CIFOTM were. I guess we know what the Look/I Ran melody line was (assuming it is vintage, it sounds that way to me) but we don't know if it had lyrics.

IIRC Alan Boyd has said here that there he is certain or nearly certain that there are acetates known to exist that have unheard material. Then there is the stuff we have sourced from poor dubs of acetates that sounds awful. Wasn't the Brian edit of the CITFOTM backing track on an early lineup of Endless Harmony or Hawthorne? If so there must be a good sounding copy in existence. What we have is fairly poor..

I hope you're right (hope it happens before he is gone though), and that will indeed be a day to "celebrate the news"! (Not referring to his passing, of course). Great passion here, people. There will be no true closure until every piece of substantive Smile music that still exists on the face of this earth has been heard! Let no turn remain unstoned!! ;)

My understanding is that the vigotone guy was in contact with someone (I believe the same someone who popped up occasionally on the old Smile message board) that had the tapes for the Smile box set, and that he was only given what was released on Heroes and Vibrations.  It never got to the point of his having the tapes and preparing the box set.

I also believe that most of what would have been on the box set was on Archaeology, and that would have been combined with what had already been released on Vigotone and other boots.  Much of the secret smile stuff did not come to light until well after the Vigotone operation had been shut down.

It is simply a subject that has been beaten to death.