The Smiley Smile Message Board

I asked this question a couple years ago on tis board and several others as well. No one knew the answer but we have so many new people I thought I would try again.

Does anyone know what happened at the Greek Theatre in 1981. This incidnet has been referred to in several articles and books but no one has ever said what it was. David Leaf said something about Brian's temper getting short and after a flareup at the Greek Theatre......but doesnt say what happened.  Anyone?

Bob

Bob, Billboard ran a review of this show in which they said Brian got screeching feedback from his microphone, punched it flat-on, and stalked offstage in the middle of "GOK".  It says Al took over the lead while Bruce ran backstage to coax Brian to return, which he did.

Creem ran a short piece which said that Dennis and Mike had a "bloody fistfight" backstage at this same show.

That's all I really know, but from these two reports, I can assume that Mike accused Dennis of giving Brian cocaine, resulting in Brian's temper flareup, and that led to the fisticuffs. 

Maybe Peter or Andrew or someone else knows for sure.

Oh, and incidentally, this story has sometimes been confused with the incident at the Universal Ampitheatre in 1979.  At that show, Dennis and Mike had an onstage "moment", and a backstage shoving match, and Dennis was subsequently expelled from the group for the better part of a year.

I wonder who usually won those fist fights? I deffinately think Dennis before 1977, but by 1981, I'm sure Dennis health made Mike stronger.

My very first post on this board was a question about this. C-Man was able to help me out a short time later and I thank him for again clearing this up. I think someone may have been there that posts here.

LA Times review (July 20 1981)- ""Brian was apparently annoyed by some bugs in the sound system.  Whatever the cause, he suddenly bolted from the stage after croaking the first note of 'God Only Knows".  As Johnston took up the lead vocal, Jardine raced into the wings after Brian.  Both returned momentarily and Brian finished the song.  He then started to leave the stage again, only to be intercepted by his brother Dennis (who earlier had come to the rim of the stage and graciously waved his rear end at the crowd). Back at the piano, Brian took a mighty swipe at his mike stand and knocked it loudly to the floor.  After the next song, he departed again, returning later for the final numbers."

Pretty much verbatim to the Billboard review, only the Billboard verson has Jardine taking up the lead on GOK, and Johnston running backstage to get Brian.

so who did what then?? It would seem easier for Bruce to get up from the piano and race then for Al to put down his guitar and go, but who knows

could you imagine those pre-1978 fights between Dennis and Mike...Dennis rips Mike's turnban and gold sequens jacket...I'd give my left testical to see that....maybe knock Al's uncle Sam hat off too.    ;D

I was at the Universal Amphitheater show in '79...sitting right among the Wilson/Martins/Hinches families when Dennis made a comment about Qualludes, Mike got in his face about it, and a little later Dennis pushed his drums off the riser onto Mike, and then jumped over them and chased Mike across the stage as everyone tried to separate them. I will verify that Mike ran away from Dennis and I don't blame him. I'll always remember that Audrey said "Oh Dear." After a break in the show to clean up the mess Dennis came out and said "I love Mike Love." Dennis was gone from the BB's for a long time after that. I think Knebworth was one of the first shows they let him come back.

Thanks everyone for answering. I asked before and people either didn't know, or didn't want to say. I asked David Leaf when I saw him and mentioned those time in 80-82 as the bad old days. David said all days are bad for Brian. No Dave, some ARE worse than others.

Bob

Well, this is always a fascinating read.
Do you know what exactly Dennis did say about the Qualludes? The "Summer dreams"-movie has him basically offering stuff to the audience. Was that what happened?

Which is why I don't like where he comes from. Brian is no martyr and doesn't need pity or at very least such a depressing vibe attached to him.. Even in 1981-82 he had some good days as we have seen by some of his interviews and sessions. Sure  Brian had serious depression early on and yeah 75 or 81-82 was when he was most self destructive, but through the years I've heard him having a lot of fun too. Listen to the Party sessions, watch the old Shindig tapes, listen to My Solution or Hey Little  Tomboy, the guy knows how to have a good time.  If anything with the constant public apperences he seems more somber now, but at the same time he still can clown around. Every day is a bad day is as absurd as anything Landy used to spout.

A December 1979 Add Some Music fanzine says Dennis did some shows the month before. Outside of that (if it happened) it would be June 1980. I think Domenic Priore wrote something hilarious once about the fight. Let me preface this by saying I understand Mike's anger, but Domenic wrote (and I am not quoting verbatium) Dennis had no choice but to beat up Mike Love on stage. This needed to happenm and Dennis in his integrity made it happen. Funny stuff!

Carol Ann Harris, Lindsey Buckingham's ex, published her memoirs recently.  She writes quite a bit about Dennis, with whom she was buds.  She describes being at one of the '79 Universal Ampitheatre shows (it was a multi-night engagement), and that upon arriving Mike yelled at Dennis for missing the soundcheck.  Dennis' response was to knock Mike out with one well-placed punch.  She doesn't mention the onstage incident, so she must have attended an earlier show.

Dennis was put on "leave" following this string of Universal Ampitheatre appearances, but he was allowed to play with them a couple of times over the next year, such as in Hawaii that August.  He came back fulltime (for a while) on the 1980 European tour that began in Scandanavia the following May.

Just because you heard a 30 minute interview where Brian seems "okay" doesn't mean you know the depths of what is going on in his mind the rest of the time.  You don't seem to understand how serious depression works. 

And there's a difference between "having a good time", and cocaine-induced euphoria.

Re-read my post you are missing what I am getting at. I in no way negate his troubles. Brian was in a bad way during the 74-5, 81-82,periods, more bad happening then good for sure.  Still that doesn't mean that he was suicidal every last day. The way Leaf said it, Brian hasn't had a good day in his entire friggin life. That is bull! Brian had (and has) depression but not always to the point where he couldn't fucntion, or laugh, or be creative, or.... have a good day  Also I didn't use the cocaine periods as examples as to what to look for as far as his glad spirits. I only said that even in 1981- 82 Brian wasn't this figure you see him protrayed as. Hiding in bed, or in a closet, or going into a zombie trance, all the stories told again and again, did not happen every day. Yet for whatever reason Leaf wants us to think that Brian is nothing but a hapless victim. Brian is a real person, much more complex (and interesting)  then his legend or myth tells us. He doesn't deserve to be defined only by his problems.

I know that I have mentioned it here before, but, when I first met Brian in 1981, he walked across the lobby of a Hyatt here in downtown Houston, barefoot, shirt opened, and hair messed up like he just rolled out of bed (which he had). Carolyn Williams was walking behind him with socks and shoes. It was the first night Dennis had been back (remember that he wasn't at the 20th anniversary show). Dennis had short hair, clean shaven, wearing a brown cordaroy suit with brown hushpuppies. And he was toasted, smoking a joint.

Brian said "Dennis, my brother. So good to see you!" Dennis hugged him and I remember this line "Dennis, you shaved your beard. I wish I could do that but my face is too fat!" Brian smelled like he hadn't had a shower in days. I was crestfallen. Al said "Not again, not again. This ought to be fun!"

My girlfriend at the time said "Why do you like these guys??"

I hate to say it, but I firmly believe that Brian was a lot happier when he was 340 lbs and addicted, no matter what Melin...I mean, Brian says.

Well there was less damage then, but I don't think he would have lived much longer. I am glad he lost the weight and cut out the drugs but my feeling is that he should only work if and when he wants to. Obviously he isn't getting to make that choice. We have debated it endlessly here but at 68 a guy can retire if that's what he wants. I love LOS, am glad to have it, and he sounds involved on it. However the tv shows, or the times when he is doing a strict oldies set, often show someone just bored and tired.

Ok....hold it hold it hold it (this is why I quit posting a year ago....I get carried away  :p).

BEACHBOY - I hate to say it, but I firmly believe that Brian was a lot happier when he was 340 lbs and addicted.

Really? Really? Where every breath was forced. He had chest pains. I watched him try to walk up some stairs in August of 1982 and two roadies had to pick him up and lif him to the top of the stairs. He sang two lines of SLOOP and was out of breath and had to quit.

As for Brian being forced to work. THAT is true. But the reason is that Brian, with no set "goal", always (I repeat always) winds up in trouble. Either drugs or some other self destructive habit. Anybody notice just how heavy Brian got right after Landy left. It wasn't only because he was free, it was because he had nothing to do.
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=d8f2a992dc715e45_large)

Wow.. I hope you know how much is wrong about this viewpoint.

Have you ever struggled with a drug problem?

petsite, this story has intrigued and fascinated me ever since I read it for the first time at the old Smile Shop. However small a glimpse into the boys' early eighties world, it can really provide you with crucial insights into what this band was about during those days.

Dennis did play the 20th anniversary show at the Forum. He wasn't supposed to, he was banned from the group at the time...but Jerry Schilling's account of how Dennis just showed up and took his place behind the drums that night, and how no one tried to stop him, is recounted in the Real Beach Boy book. I also have about a dozen photos of the show all with Dennis in them.

I always feel like a broken record with this story. But it made a huge impact on me. I spent the first 30 mins in the lobby talking with Sterling Smith (one of their touring keyboardists). He was from Columbus Ohio and knew a friend of my brother's from the Columbus music scene. Al Jardine was friendly. Bruce was good. Dennis was Dennis. A good friend of mine who knoew Dennis told me how to act with him. If he challenges you (throwing the LP across the lobby), you just confront him back. Want to hear something so weird? I was so calm around these guys, like I knew them all my life. Bobby F. was nice too.

I remember Brian coming down in the glass elevator because my girlfriend pulled on my shirt and pointed "Is that him? My God Bob!"

I just shook my head and said hi. Brian ignored me cause he was too busy noticing Dennis being back. "Hey Bri, sign this guy's LP. He's alright." Then I handed Brian the lead sheet for Still I Dream Of It and it stopped him dead in his tracks. "Where did you get this??" I got it from BRI. Alan was like "What is it a lead sheet for? Still I Dream Of It? Man, great tune Bri!" I said you should release it (I had heard it by then from a dub of Adult Child). Brian shook his head and said no, the song sucked. He signed it and left for the bus....in 20 degree weather barefoot. Alan said "Not again...man."

I always got the feeling that Alan Jardine was a man with a broken heart when it came to the group.

Well Al knew what the Wilson's were like ten years before and how far they had declined since then. I mean Sunflower and Surf's Up were only a decade old then. I think it did break his heart.
Borrowing from Andrew's site a second here are the early 1981 dates up to where you met them. Carl was still there?
January
16 - Sports Arena, San Diego CA
17 - UC Davis, Davis CA 
18 - Sacramento CA
19 - Washington DC
February 12 - The Summit, Houston TX [w/ Randy Meisner & The Silverados]

Bolded for truth.


I know it's a morbid viewpoint but listening to interviews with Brian from the early 80s compared to the last ten years or so, it sounds obvious. He's more animated in the early 80s.

Board's turning blue again.

As far as demeanor, Brian was more with it. I mean it was slow with him. If you listen to interviews from the sixties or early 70's he is a little shy or awkward, but seems like a nice guy who is pretty intelligent. Steadily from 73-81 he get a little more goofy, maybe Murry dying and cocaine has to do with this, but he's a little louder and more scattered. With some exceptions he doesn't seem totally out of it exactly but he doesn't quite have the same personality. Maybe a little less secure. Still he seems like he could hold a conversation and remember what was said etc. 83-91 he changes again. He seems a bit robotic the slurring starts, his memories aren't as sharp sometimes. He seems a little more aware then now, but a lot less relaxed. Since 92-93 well until Carl died he was a little more upbeat or funny, but he seemed more then ever to be unconnected with his surroundings. At times his memories are sharp, other times not there at all. Less robotic, but also less patient he no longer likes to sit and talk, prefers short interviews.

Now I am not talking about his career here only how he speaks and holds himself. Honestly I do think he is more "gone" since Dennis and then Carl died. Yet I would say he is at least not putting himself in danger. As far as happiness I don't know,  it's hard to tell. Ginger Blake said he's the surrendered Brian now. You know the last time I really saw footage of Brian where he is totally happy? It was a 1983 Beach Boys show where he is singing and dancing to Runaway. He's having a blast. That's the very last of the old Brian to me. Yet that doesn't mean he's not happy at times since then, the less talkitive he got the harder it was to know

Landy did some major damage as did Brian himself, but I feel losing Murry, Dennis and Carl changed him too. Made him less jovial, less vibrant. Again I am not trying to deny that he has done good music or shows etc. In that area he surpassed all our expectations. All I am saying is that his personality has truly altered.

Excellent post, MBE. I think you're pretty much spot on.

There is another time, a fairly recent time, when Brian appears "with it" and happy. And, that would be the performance of BWPS for the Beautiful Dreamer DVD. I've watched it a couple of times, and I can't figure out if Brian is truly energized, motivated, and, well, "nailing it", or, if he's acting. He hasn't been the greatest actor, you know....

BeachBoy - The Brian I met and saw in 1981 was NOT a happy man. He was more animated in interviews and generally cuz he was high or drunk. I know people who listen to the "Cocaine Tapes" and think that Brian is like he was in the 60s. He sounds so cool and animated. Coke does that!

February 12 - The Summit, Houston TX [w/ Randy Meisner & The Silverados]

Carl was with them. My girlfriend has a very southern accent and said "Hi ya'all" to Carl as he was walking out to the bus (purple jacket with flower in his lapel). He said "Hi ya sweetie" back in a southern accent. Carl was SUCH a class act. Brian sang a version of Dont Worry Baby and sounded just like the July 5th show from Long Beach. I remember thinking "What the f**k? Why isnt Bruce singing that?"

I kinda don't like the suggestion that if I disagree on this, or think Melinda's right on this, I'm some kind of blue-board zombie.

My wife's been treated for depression.  Is she less exuberant than before she got medicated?  Quite often, yeah.  Is she *happier*, though?  Hell yes.  Because even if the highs are less high, the lows are way way way less low.

And I certainly wouldn't trade the quieter but amiable old guy goofing around with his band onstage in Canberra, or genuinely smiling when I told him what a good job he'd done on "Add Some Music" the night before, for the rapidly disintegrating figure of a quarter-century ago.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I remember that scene from Summer Dreams. There is something about that scene that I have always wondered about. In the scene, the group is performing Rock and Roll Music. Dennis seems to be portrayed as a very incompotent drummer who just beat the hell out of anything and everything on the drum kit when he got to loaded. Is this at all true?

Well Jay I guess your best bet would be to watch Rock and Roll Music from the 1979 Midnight Special. Dennis looks bad but his playing seems fine to me. I will say that with the exception of Knebworth and maybe the Mike Douglas show all of his 80's work sounded much less energetic, like he was loosing steam. I never heard him play that bad like in the movie, but who knows maybe he did on his worst nights.
Sheriff John Stone I am glad you liked my post. You pointing out that ET interview from 83 a while back  really made me watch it again and there is an different Brian there compared to a year or two ealier. Now I am very glad he lost the weight and kicked drugs but something was lost when he went back to Landy and didn't have Marilyn around to make sure the doctor didn't go too far.

I tend to believe he was motivated--Linnett said he was very genuine that day in a post here awhile back--and I put his word in very good regard..

It's interesting that they chose "Rock And Roll Music" to portray Dennis in that vein. If you listen closely to "Rock And Roll Music" on Live at Knebworth, Dennis actually falls apart at the end of the song and the song abruptly ends. I thought they might be able to "doctor that up" a liitle bit before it was released.

I've always thought Dennis' drumming was pretty darn good in all the late '70s/early '80s TV appearances with the band:  Midnight Special '79, Knebworth '80, DC '80, Mike Douglas '80, Natl Cheerleaders Competiton '81, Long Beach '81.  Especially the DC and Long Beach shows, his drumming was one of the few highlights.  He did flub it a couple times at Knebworth, but not bad by any means.  And sure, he missed the first half verse or so of "SUSA" at the DC show, but he kicked in nicely. 

Oh c-man. I don't know if I agree with you view of Dennis at Long Beach. He looks like crap and stuggles to keep up, like an out of shape drummer (which he was). If you listen to the whole broadcast, his drumming is pretty bad. Of course the worst of his on tape that I have heard is the Jamacia Music Fes. in Nov 1982. He is really sloppy and Carl has to call out to him several times.

His piano playing on Rhonda in 1981 at Long Beach was awful unlike at Knebworth.

That's right, and there is a different edit floating around somewhere (it was used in some special or other) where you see what happens more clearly...Dennis ends the song about eight bars early, and then just slumps over the kit.  You hear the band lamely keep going with the percussionist trying to keep the beat, but all you've got are cymbals.  Bruce is raising his hand as if to gesture to Dennis to keep going (this part made it into the DVD), and then when the song ends, you see Mike drop his microphone hand with a look of absolute disgust on his face.  It's quite a moment, up there with the two of them on "Surfer Girl."

adamghost I didn't see it in my copy of the 20th Anniversary Special, is it on yours?

This might be covered before, but do we know what was the reason Carl seemed so angry at the end of "Surfer girl"?