The Smiley Smile Message Board

..in the 2004 SMiLE cd booklet, there were pictures of 2004 Brian doing crazy things like throwing vegetables and jumping and swimming like all those pictures from 66/67.. that would be cool!

okay.. maybe i'm a bit baked here..

I completely understand.  ;D

I wish Brian would go back to touring in a bathrobe. That's the stuff legends is made of!

Yeah, and I wish he were 300 pounds, smoking heavily, drinking heavily, doing coke and, if possible, worried that his house was bugged. That sh*t is funny.  ::)

That reminds me, the other day I was feelin' on the same level as you must be on now, and I remarked to my wife "It'd be funny as hell if they did publicity pictures where Brian was reenacting different covers from the BB history", and for some reason the idea of 2009 vintage Brian in a snow globe surrounded by penguins like KTSA really split my merda.
:lol


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weird...the topic locked itself. I just unlocked it.

How about an updated Sunflower Good Humor ice cream man (in a bathrobe)? Let's bring back
wackiness and irreverence, which Brian still has in abundance. ;)

I doubt we'll get much wackiness or irreverence. He still tosses off the oddball comment or funny moment, but for the most part I think his career is too carefully (if not always well) managed. I don't think off-the-wall Brian is quite the image his team wants to project. They're more stuck on the "he can still create magic; he's still very demanding in the studio; don't forget, he's a genius" mode.

Hm, they're certainly not doing a very good job portraying Brian as a perfectly normal individual.

I don't think and didn't say they're trying to.

I think it's a mistake.  With this last "Brian's Back" campaign that began in 1998, they've positioned Brian to the general public as if he was the same guy he was around Today/SD&SN, when many of the diehards rather he be built up as the quirky guy who put out quirky, Love You-style music.

I think he's both those things

He still has the capacity to be irreverent, but only when he's very comfortable and if he's given
permission and prodding. He's like a talented comedian who is stereotyped as a straight man now, and his career and image is very tightly managed and controlled, as much as it's possible
to contain the loose cannon, unpredictable aspect of his personality, which admittedly doesn't emerge often these days, at least in public.

Let's encourage his management to let him off his leash and let whatever is left of the deadpan,
hilarious, offbeat Brian re-emerge! :lol

Of course I don't wish for Brian to be back in the days of 1976-77 when he was battling obesity, drugs, and mental illness (which he always will battle anyway), but I do wish he would sit down and compose those 2:15 - 2:30 classics like he used to. I still think that's his best fit. The Beach Boys Love You, with 14 B. Wilson/M.Love songs, seemed so easy at the time. And some of that Adult Child stuff, it was so creative, it was so "Brian". It just seemed like Brian could sit down at the piano and, in no time, come up with this cool stuff.

Production-wise, I don't really wish for those raw, raspy albums. But I do wish Brian would/could sit down and compose a whole album, 13-14 songs of NEW material, of inspired material. Songs where, when you hear them, you say, "That's so Brian". That's what I wish.

I'm still hoping for Roller Skating Child Part 2.

I think we'd be lucky to still have the 1976 version of Brian around. Watch the Lorne Michaels produced Its OK TV special, in those interviews from his bed, or the other interviews in that time period its so obvious that Brian was still present. The difference between those days and now are huge. he was probably still 80% or more there. Admittedly he was overweight and very troubled, but today the Brian we have is much much less present and much less Brian...I'd say he's operating at 60 % on his good days in comparison to '76. Don't take my word. Look at a filmed interview from '76 and look at one from the last 10 years. In '76 he was nervous, weird and unhealthy...but he's there...he's present.  Now he's completely on auto-pilot most of the time, maybe he's healthier physically, he's still nervous and wierd...but the guy that used to be Brian is diminished, partial, vacant. Anybody who thinks he's more "back" now than he was in '76 is fooling themselves. And I agree with SJS that the songs he wrote in '76/77 were closer in spirit to the real Brian than most things since. I guess that's the last time we weren't receiving Brian's offerings through a giant filter.

Humor was always such a great part of Brian's persona and his songs - certainly around Love You/Adult Child (if mars had life on it I might find my wife on it . . . Johnny Carson, I Want to Pick You Up, Had to Phone Ya, etc.).  Its rare that comes out now.  But we all know it's in there - his songs don't always have to be so serious and self-referential.

"Roller Skating Child" is genius.

I'm with you there ... except one thing: inspired is a lot to ask for. And I don't think its necessary. He rarely wrote an entire album of "inspired" material anyway. Pet Sounds, maybe Smile (which wasn't an album anyway until his team made it one). I'd LOVE just an album of songs. Just songs. The faster the better, so nobody has time to muck around with them (including him).

As far as him being better or worse off than in the mid/late 70s, I think its a two-sided thing. There are different kinds of health, and as Jon said, while he improved in some ways, he's obviously long gone in others. I don't know that you can really choose one or the other. Would you rather lose your mind or your body? Neither option is really attractive...

Did I sound sarcastic? Seriously hope I didint.

Because if I had one wish it would be that Brian would make another album like Love You.

Good Kind Of Love assures me it's possible.

Why Good Kind of Love? I don't see where that would really remind you of Love You at all. (Not being an asshole, just asking.) I'd say Oxygen to the Brain (which I know isn't new) is more along those lines. Or Message Man.

Actually, I thought you were joking. But, I'm glad you weren't. And glad to see you're a Love You fan.

Luther, maybe "inspired" wasn't the perfect term to describe the kind of music that I'm wishing from Brian. Or, maybe it is....

I like the kind of Brian songs where you can almost tell that he enjoyed recording it, it's just a vibe that comes through the music. Love You is full of it. It's also a vibe that gives you, the listener, that special feeling, the reason why we listen to Brian's music in the first place. Brian's honesty and personality is in his music; conversely, you can also tell when it's not there.

Honestly, the first time I heard "Goin' Home" was that this sounded like a Love You outtake. That insistant synth work, the raw "Home, home, be-doby-doby-do-do-" backing vocal from Brian, the keen harmonies popping up in the middle (a la "Let Us Go On this Way") and the over-the-top fade. Perfect and so enjoyable. And I'm dead serious.

Honestly, while I think Brian's not altogether there all the time (which he has never been), he's operating on a level where any influence he has goes into his music. So you have "Good Kind of Love" which sounds, to me anyway, like a Summer Days kinda thing. Simple and direct. The "Til I Die" like ambience of "MAD"; "Morning Beat" which has a Sunflower vibe and "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl." I'll say it again, I don't think that TLOS is completely successful, but it's certainly the most interesting and varied work since the Adult/Child era.

On TLOS you have a team of musicians and management running around making sure what is released is palatable, acceptable, within the boundaries...do people realize this? I know they don't over on Brian's board. Love You is the last example of Brian being engaged, in control, and revealing his stuff on almost his own terms...its HIS stuff, not a little dash of his stuff blended in with Scott Bennett or whomever else is creating the shiny Brian facsimile. TLOS is a good record, and Brian is a big part of it...but compared to Love You its not at all genuine Brian Wilson. With that said there are parts of TLOS that put a major lump in my throat, in a good way. But I'd just love to hear something closer to the source, even if its disturbing.

That's kind of what I was getting at in the previous page about his team. It's not to say that TLOS wasn't a good album: I liked it quite a bit. But it's far from "from Brian to you," even though the songs are his (or his and Bennett's). It is a team's product. That isn't just because Brian is half-incapacitated: no major label release (or not many major label releases, with some exceptions maybe for people like Bob Dylan, who have taken control) is really just the artist or band making and releasing an album. But I'd guess it is even more so with Brian because of his limitations.

As Jon says, his career, including product, has been very heavily managed (i.e. filtered) for decades. To me, that means that it's not that what comes out isn't Brian, but it's that it's selective Brian. Nobody is going to say "hey, do whatever you want. Here's the cash to finance it."

And, the two previous above posts indirectly show why The Beach Boys Love You was such an intriguing album. In some ways, well, many ways, it is brilliant. On the other hand, because of its, and Brian's flaws, Love You was the last time THAT was ever gonna happen again. THAT meaning Brian's character. That embarrassing but honest, raw but fascinating, insane but entertaining Brian Wilson was never gonna get released again. And I can understand why; a lot was on the line. I mean, it is called the record BUSINESS. The Beach Boys made sure by going to other producers, Landy made sure (although Sweet Insanity almost snuck out), and Brian's current management definitely made sure. Love You was the album that showed Brian still had it, but it was also the album that broke the camel's back.

That's a very good point, I wasn't suggesting that Brian was in total control, just that I got a definite Love You vibe from "Goin' Home."

That is some hardcore truth .

I think this 1980 interview might be the last footage of Brian being almost all there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8g0laPq4Oc

Sure, it looks like he hasn't washed his hair in a month, but not only is he making complete sense about songwriting, but he's got real PERSONALITY as he does it.

Once Landy administered the heavy pharmaceutical cocktail in 1983, things changed forever and Brian has never been completely "back"

It's funny, he looks relatively happy and normal within himself in that clip - he is able to have a laugh etc  - yet this is the period where his bad habits were really starting to take their toll again.  Fascinating clip to be sure.

I love this clip. After Landy came back, Brian's eyes just didn't show a lot of emotion amymore. The manic stare. It got a bit better after Landy though.

There is a photo of Brian with Landy behind him with his hand on Brian's shoulder (at least it's something like that).. and Brian looks absolutely terrified... man I hate Landy!!

Here is the last "real" Brian interview. Late 81 or early 82 Make sure to watch all three parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Mo50Gc0dE
Now the nails are uncut and clips contrasting the Brian of 64 and 65 show a big decline, yet he is there more or less.

Is it my turn to be the contrarian?  I far prefer Pet Sounds Brian, Today Brian, TLOS Brian, or Sunflower Brian to Love You Brian.  So he needs help, encouragement, and intervention to reach that level of polish and sublime music-making now?  I'd rather have that.  The man's mentally ill, with all sorts of depressive tendencies which can lead him not to stick with things.  I can identify -- and those are the problems I'd much rather people be helping him to move past, rather than getting hung up on authenticity.  Because a genuine "authentic" Brian left completely to his own devices might well never bother to put out an album again...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I am not a big Love You fan myself, and do think LOS is better, but I think all the other LP's you mentioned feature Brian before any big decline happened. I don't know I feel bad that he is so disconnected now, but I agree I don't know if he would do anything by himself. Still I agree with most of what Jon and the others are saying. He is more gone now then in 1976, but somehow I think today he makes better music on the whole. I know he is assisted, but I cringe when I watch most Brian stage footage from 76-82. I do wish he seemed more with it, or funny, or hit the highs of Still I Dream Of It (which he almost does on MAD), yet I am glad he is on key, not writing disturbing lyrics (Hey Little Tomboy, I Wanna Pick You Up), and not destroying himself. Still when I think back to the Brian before Murry died, to even the one at the Caribou session in 74, I miss him. I think few ever came close to Brian in his twenties, and I feel he hasn't either.

I reckon the Paley sessions are close to the real thing for those who like "Love You" type of stuff. With TLOS maybe there are flashes of this.

In terms of interviews, the most relaxed of recent years that I've heard was the Indie 101.3 interview with ex-Sex Pistol Steve Jones.

Brian laughs a bit but of course is more defensive and stiff than he would have been in the late 70s on a similar show.

What's more I think Brian is generally a bit more serious these days. Wasn't Carl from Caddyshack (played by Bill Murray) modeled on Brian, even with the character's habit of talking out of one side of the mouth? I guess Brian was regarded as a great laugh by those who met him in those days, hopefully laughing with him and not at him.

Brian even found it necessary to remind Steve Jones that "the poor will always be there" - possibly out of some confusion where some Americans thought that punk was communist? It's almost as if Brian's become a bit more politicized or religious ... perhaps even pious? These are, of course, just guesses. I don't know the bloke, but have to read between the lines of what he says, which is usually stilted.

So I think he's a more serious and stable person now. I agree though - at least he is still around... and many aren't.

Yeah, he's still there; just the way he pointed out that it was the PendleTONES, not the Pendletons, shows you that he was at least THOUGHTFUL.

I've said it many times - AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN! :P - Brian's vocals in 1981 weren't that bad. His voice was getting clearer, the raspiness was disappearing, and his facial expressions and conversation skills showed a much more lucid Brian than anytime since, what, 1974? When Carl took his sabbatical, Brian was forced to sing more leads, he was playing a lot of piano, and I'm just guessing, with Carl absent, he was probably more involved in the overall live presentation. I believe that, if Brian's mental and physical health would not have deteriorated the way it did, and he would not have hooked up with Landy the second time, he could've made great strides. I think he would've grown (no jokes, please) in a similar way that he did in 1997, 1998, 1999 when he re-emerged with Darian, Jeff, and company. Brian eventually, with his touring, demonstrated that he was capable of so much more than he was contributing with The Beach Boys in the 1970's. If he could do what he did in 1999, he must've at least had the potential to do it in 1979, too. It's just too bad that the right people weren't in place in 1981-82, like their were in 2001-02. I'm not blaming anyone, and I know I'm oversimplifying the situation. It was extremely complex back then. It's just, as I view the interviews that MBE posted, I thought there was a window there that he could've made it through, that's all.

It's just that his addictions got him and by the end of 1982 he was near death.

Yes, the addictions did get him. I just wanted to add a few more (boring) thoughts on this....

In a way, in 1981, when Brian was singing the leads on "Don't Worry Baby" and "God Only Knows", there were a few eyebrows raised, in much the same way as when he did "Live At The Roxy". I know, I was one of them. Oh, it wasn't on the same level, but it was, "Hey, Brian's ATTEMPTING these songs, something's happening here!" I mean, he could of refused. I can't help but think/wish that had he continued, more leads could've been added, he would've gotten more comfortable, the voice would've gotten stronger, confident; much the way it did years later. He was only 37-38 years old.

I was at a Beach Boys' concert in 1980 at The Spectrum in Philadelphia, and Brian requested "Long Tall Texan". Just the fact that he was interested enough to request a song.

There were the reports of those few days at the beginning of the Keepin' The Summer Alive sessions....

Anyway, I just wanted to say again that if they could've treated Brian differently, instead of shipping him off to Landy....I kinda wish there would've been a Melinda in his life then, a strong-willed person with the knowledge and guts to get Brian the help he needed, the conventional help that he needed. I'm not criticizing anyone. Yes, yes, I know it was a different time, a different place.....     

It's been said before...to get a "real" Brian Wilson album, lock him in a studio with a synth for a week with some pot and put out the results, no touch up work.  If Brian could be taught how to use computer-based recording software, he could do it all on his own.  It won't ever happen, but if it did, the results would be highly fascinating.

man.. i don't know.. he seriously looks like he is high on coke in those interviews.. he even wipes his nose in between his rambling in part 2 at 3:04 in.

Again the contrast from the young Brian they show and the one interviewed is very sad, but I wish he was this lucid today. He may be high but he just doesn't seem as sharp after 1982.

Clearly, the intense drug regimen that Landy had him on to keep him passive in the '80s and early '90s
permanently altered his brain, almost to the point of a small-scale lobotomy (is there such a thing?)

He saved his life, and he is physically healthy today, but what a terrible cost....At least he's happy, that's the most important thing. :'( :)

Medication is a two edged sword.  Anyone who has used something as common as zoloft or prozac knows there is a blunting of range of emotion.....the person may be less miserable in a way but they sometimes loose their edge, their sparkle.  Some choose not to take it for that reason.  It has been said that great art is born of some kind of upheaval.

Somebody (I don't remember their name) who had some background in medications once posted on this board that the medications Landy administered to Brian had short term effects, but could not result in long term damage. Again, I don't remember his/her name, but, if your reading, would you please comment on the potential long-term damage "Landy's cocktails" could've had on Brian. I do remember your post seemed credible....

That's why I stopped taking my meds some years back.

That interview is really great, and sad at the same time.  Brian does indeed sound very lucid and together, despite his appearance.  Aside from his voice being lower in pitch, I could easily hear 60's Brian saying those things.

He has always spoken fast, and it seems to me in recent years that he still tries to speak fast, but he can't make his neurons and muscles do what he wants.  Landy's over-medication is the most probably reason for this, I would think.  Must be incredibly frustrating for him, though. 

I think it would've been cool if he did the Smile tour with his keyboard (or even a piano) sitting in a sandbox surrounded by tumbling mats, and a tent in the backround.

That's what I was saying man, he's legendary for that, why not just own up to it. Just like Lee Scratch Perry plays up his 'insanity', Brian would only gain in popularity at this point. The people that mostly by Brian Wilson records at this point are either older fans that have been around to remember the 'good' old days, or younger people who bought Pet Sounds and have to have everything else. haha.

They could get Thomas Pynchon to sit in the tent and smoke hash

Have to agree here. I remember I thought it was really clever when Brian used to do part of the Barenaked Ladies song in concert.

Brian has been known for his offbeat sense of humor over the years.  Sure, why not have fun with the legend?

Kind of like Ozzy joking about being the foda prince of darkness or Dylan calling himself a guru in thunder on the mountain.  Brian could walk on stage wearing a a fire helmet and carrying a bucket of smoldering wood chips.
His line could be something like "just to set the mood".    Or he could say "Darian just turned me on to a killer hog rail and I'm ready to go!"

Better than the lighter joke. ;D

Sorry to bang on, but that is what I don't really know. Was it actually Landy who determined the pharmological elements to Brian's treatment, including the dosages and types of drug? Or was there more of a free-for-all amongst the team of psychiatrists that Landy had around him, including some which were very reputable?

Landy seemed overly controlling and was undoubtably in it for the money, but did he need Brian really dosed up? he controlled everything anyway. Landy could have given Brian placebos and still got him to do what he wanted.

Maybe we'll get solid evidence of all of this. One day.