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God, everything I read about him just makes me hate him more. Brian's life isn't the only one he ruined irreparably: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gig_Young#Death

Reading that...wow. I have often wonder if that would have been Brian's fate. Why else would he redraft Brian's will?

Did he ever talk about Brian afterwards but  before his death?

Do I see a pattern? Was EL a predator looking for extremely vulnerable patients? Of course psychatric cases are by definition not that strong, but many are well-protected and guarded by others apart from the therapist. But Brian and Gig evidently were not. Was that the secret aim of 24/7 therapy, even with control of the patient's sexual lifestyle? Patients usually fare better when they're allowed a day off once in a while (I know, the drugs would pose a grave danger...).

I gather he couldn't, legally.

I read that with great interest. Landy had a chronicle of his time with Brian Wilson on film and tape. If that archive ever come to light the whole Brian Wilson story may have to be rewriten. Very sad.

Rewritten like what? This?

Brian and Eugene enter the Hawaii house after a press conference.

Brian: 'Gene! Get you lazy ass in gear!'
Eugene: 'What, mr. Wilson? What should I do?'
Brian: 'First, grab me three quarterpounders and a pack of Marlboros just down the road! And then, you gotta run 20 miles and swim 10. Lazy git!'
Eugene: 'Okay mr. Wilson. Your every wish is my command...'
Brian: 'And get those Love brothers away from me, you idiot! They are gay and want me for a threesome! I'm not in for that!!'
Eugene: 'Okay mr. Wilson, okay. I'm on my way now...'
Brian: 'And hand me back $ 34,000 from last month, you Scrooge! A grand a month is more than enough for you, sucker! What we play out for the press is not reality, thank God for that! I'm not in this world to pay your and Alexandra's pension plan, understand?'

Yes, now I see. The story might indeed have to be rewritten. I will phone mr. Ames Carlin about that.

Good one, Marty Tabor would be proud.

In some of the interviews I've seen in the years since Landy and Brian had to split, Brian never seems bitter towards Landy-in fact, sometimes he seems almost sad that they couldn't still hang out.

Knowing what we know now, and you couldn't go back and change anything, how would you vote - YES or NO - on having Eugene Landy in Brian Wilson's life?

A big no. I don't know what else to offer instead because we are talking about 1975 here and people didn't know as much about mental issues, but no way!

Without Landy, Brian would have died in 1983. Fact.  However...

With Landy and his scattershot medications, Brian came perilously close to being a complete vegetable (and probably dying) in the early 90s. Also fact.

See the problem ? No blacks, no whites but an ocean of gray.

Well then, maybe Brian needed a different psychologist. It's not like Landy was the only person who could've saved Brian.

Well, like AGD said there is no definitie answer. But I'd say yes for the 1976, and yes for the 1983 life resuce, but no for the rest...(I hope this doesn't sound wishy-washy) he definitely should've been sent packing by at least 1985. That's for sure, and I do believe that was the original plans.

The band thought so in 1982.

My question is, once Brian was better, why did it take so long for someone to do something about it? Brian's problems now are directly related to the meds & drugs he was given by Landy; I mean, my God, there's a clip on youtube where Brian is asking Landy to score him a "half, a quarter, and some Xanax".

Pure speculation, but maybe the guys thought Brian was always "just a step away" from re-joining the group full-time. He started showing up for gigs in 1983-84. Then, he was involved in The Beach Boys 1985 album. He was at the Reagan Inaugural Ball, Live Aid, and the Solid Gold TV appearances. Then he showed up for the "Rock & Roll To The Rescue", "California Dreamin", and "Wipe Out" videos", not to mention some of those John Stamos-related TV shows.

I think the guys thought, "Ok, let him do a solo album (in 1987-88); he deserves that", but after Sweet Insanity, with some of those scathing lyrics, well, that might've been a red flag. Throw in the changing of the will, and, I guess enough was enough....

Edit: Oh, yeah, I forgot another one. Brian even joined the group to film that Endless Summer TV series, and was fairly prominent in it, in 1989. It appeared, to the public at least, that Brian was doing just fine - and still a Beach Boy. Again, after it appeared that he wasn't coming back - by doing a second solo album, the guys started to get involved.

One of the things that's disorienting to me is how good Brian looks in 1980s things; "Endless Summer," the 1986 25th thing, one particular VH1 award show appearance where he performs "God Only Knows" and "I Sleep Alone." Phsyically and musically he's with it, but we didn't know the half of it...

Melinda made an excellent point in a docu, that if mental illness had the reputation today he would've been sent to UCLA right away, which is where he went after Landy left anyway. But in the 70s mental illness had a horrible reputation, and Carlin also said that to sent Brian to a hospital to get treatment would've been an admission of defeat to some of the BBs. (I don't have the exact page at the moment, but looking at my copy of Catch a Wave it's around 198 or so)...sad stuff...

Absolutely. The diagnosis and treatment of mental illness--to say nothing of the social stigma--was sadly deplorable. It still is only just beginning to truly catch up, at least in the U.S. For example, it's only this year that the "Wellstone Act" (named after the late Sen. Paul Wellstone of my state, and intended to force insurance companies to cover mental illnesses equally to physical ones) passed. And while "you're crazy" is still an insult, nobody says "you've got cancer" as one...

Uh? Wasn't he "sent to a hospital" as early as late '68?

That's correct, but only for a comparatively short spell...Perhaps I should be clearer that I meant staying at a mental hospital for an extended stay...

It seems to me that, in the first part of the 70's at least, Brian's only sign of mental illness was his desire to let the other guys carry the BB burden. Then Murry died, sending Brian and Dennis in to long, slow, declines. Brian got so wasted on drugs that he began to endanger his children. Landy arrives and mind-gangsters Brian into submission. As a side note my girlfriend was theorizing that Landy acts like some CIA mind-control expert, MKUltra style, which could be (check out http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html (http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html))
Anyway, I feel like Brian was ONLY harmed by Landy. Any descent doctor could have saved Brian's life. Only Landy could so greedily ruin the man. When I see interviews with Landy I practically see the evil in his eyes. Thumbs down.

If not for Landy, Brian would have almost certainly been dead by '76 or '77. And again by '83 or '84. I also think you're wrong that Brian showed no sign of mental illness until the early '70s. He showed a whole lot of them before that.

This isn't earth shattering, but I always felt that between, say 1968 - 1975, Brian had to be experiencing BOTH mental illness and addiction to drugs.

Brian Wilson was acclaimed and adored by both fans and peers, never had to worry about money, lived in a mansion, had a loving wife, had two beautiful daughters, could work when he wanted, could basically do whatever he wanted - and was not happy. So, instead of enjoying all of the above, he found it necessary to get away from all of the above, and proceeded to fry his brains. Yeah, I'd say there was something seriously wrong with him during that time frame.

Really, people's descriptions of his social anxieties as a teenager could be signs of mental illness. Had he turned out to be otherwise healthy in that regard, I'd say he was just a shy kid, typical teenage anxiety. But considering what actually did end up happening, I'd say he (as is pretty common) began experiencing its effects in adolescence. And considering Audree's descriptions of Murray, he came by it pretty naturally. He didn't need a bad LSD trip to "acquire" mental illness. He was born with the tendencies.

In theory ANYTHING COULD be a sign of mental illness, which seem like fairly large parameters. Brian looks to have been a pretty productive guy up until Murry died. I don't believe that just any deviation from a non-existent norm equals mental illness. Landy on the other hand was obviously nuts, in a bad way.

I know anything COULD be a sign. But that's why I said you have to look at the results, too. Passing bad spells or phases in life are one thing, entirely common. But when it ends up with decades of continuous, serious problems, it's hard to say they were irrelevant.

True. Seems like a perfect storm of circumstance and the humans involved that got BW to this point. Weird.

I truly think Landy at the start really wanted to help Brian, but when he started experiencing the Celebrity lifestyle, the money, the fame he prolonged Brian's illness, to the point of making him a vegtable, or more to the point..a robot.

I think Diane Sawyer is the reason Brian is alive today.  ;D

Don't forget that when Landy first left the scene in 1976, Brian started seeing another psychologist, Dr. Steve Schwartz. I think (not positive) that Brian was doing pretty well with him, but then Schwartz got killed in a rock-climbing accident, sending Brian into a tailspin.

Obviously that was tragic for Dr. Schwartz and his loved ones, but it's also another one of the many what-ifs for Brian and the Beach Boys: What if Dr. Schwartz had lived?

Good, good call.  Anyone not seen this amazing interview, go to youtube now and search Sawyer Landy Wilson.

BTW, if anyone thinks the anonymous 'employee of Brother records' sounds familiar... well, you'd be right.  :)

Well that's the point really is that Brian did change a lot after Murry died. Don't get me wrong he was having mental issues as early as 1963 what with him not wanting to tour and giving up his previously healthy diet. I mean those changes came fast, and by the end of 1964 obviously something was wrong. In 1968 he had some help and honestly he did seem better for a few years.  Now after that with Murry selling the songs, and the fight over using Surf's Up etc. he had some setbacks.  By 1972 he was showing some signs of drug addiction, but I don't think he would have needed drastic treatment in June 1973. He needed some help but he had more of a everyday (if you can call it that) drug or mental illness issues at that point. Again I don't know what could have helped Brian by 1975 but Landy hurt him. There had to have been someone else in the world who could have helped. Now by 1982 Brian was far worse then before, but by then drug and mental treatment had started to become more advanced and I just refuse to believe that Landy was the only option.

I agree with grillo, that any decent Doctor could have gotten Brian sober. But, it took a true nutjob like Landy to scare and belittle Brian into STAYING sober. Let's not forget that Brian was and still is a very fragile man. It almost took somebody on Brian's level to make any progress with him. Landy was fired once, and Brian didn't stay sober for long, if he ever was sober to begin with. I think that this is one of the reasons why the group was quite possibly afraid to "dismiss" Landy to quickly.

I know it's commonly accepted that Brian needed someone as nuts as himself by that point in order to get better, but I really don't feel this way as I just don't see what good "scaring and belittling" might do to an indeed very fragile person.

I don't buy the taglines and catch phrases of documentaries: I don't think Brian "needed someone as crazy as him" to sober up, as they all say. I'm just saying there had been attempts to help him before. Those failed. He was nearly dead. Landy kept him alive. Simple as that, really. Whether anyone else could have or not is irrelevant: Landy is the one who did save his life. Twice. (Then he helped ruin it.)

Indeed. I still think Brian's 'mental illness' only appeared AFTER Landy. Yes, he used, and likely abused, several substances, but that is not necessarily a sign of anything other than general unhappiness, something we all self-medicate for. Landy completely warped and damaged BW's mind, which I feel is infinitely worse.

Brian's breakdown on the plane in 64 or 65 (whenever it was) isn't a sign he was mentally ill? I wonder if your understanding of a mental illness requires it to be incapacitating to qualify. There are plenty of people going to work every day and functioning perfectly well with mental illnesses. Doesn't mean they don't have the problems. I'd say if you get to the point of breakdowns, you're mentally ill. That's safe to say.

Doesn't refusing to release songs you created because you thought they created fires register as maybe being a sign something's not right upstairs? Likewise thinking mind gangsters are trying to steal your mind?

I've always thought that maybe the mind gangsters thing was a  put-on of Brian's. The fire stuff, not so much.

That's actually a direct quote from Landy in 1976, not a film-makers creation.

Plenty of the things I mean when I say "taglines and catch phrases" were direct quotes--just often they were included in film interviews. I just don't like how they're so often repeated ad nauseum as if having been said out loud on a big moving screen makes them true (or at least the whole truth, or a simple truth). That's all.

I think being stressed out about being responsible for your entire family's fortunes and being unsure whether you can continue to pull it off, along with feeling lonely and missing your sweetie, can make just about anyone crack up. That goes double if you are a very sensitive 21 year old. I know it's fashionable to push prozac on anyone these days and say they are 'mentally ill'. Show me someone who is NOT mentally ill according to your definitions. I guess you've never had a breakdown, or a feeling of hopelessness. Yes, Brian's breakdown happened in public. That sucks, but doesn't qualify as mentally ill.

I'm not a pharmacist.

I would say hearing voices in your head threatening to kill you and telling you you are terrible person dating back to 1965, thinking a movie is talking directly to you (paranoid delusion), thinking Spector is bugging your house and his mind gangsters are out to get you for stealing the wall of sound(same), thinking music you created is making fires pop up around L.A., staying in bed for days and weeks at a time and not washing, offering cocaine to your young daughters, being hospitalized for a mental breakdown and having at least two mental breakdowns before that - all that qualifies as mental illness in my book, and happened BEFORE Landy.  That's not just "being sensitive."

^ Yep. I'm not trying to diagnose everyone in the world. I'm not trying to dish out antidepressants like candy. But it's not much of a stretch to say that a guy who clearly was seriously mentally ill later was probably mentally ill earlier while demonstrating many signs of mental illness. That isn't overreaching.

Alright. Point taken. Still think he was basically fine until Landy though. 

Then why was Landy hired?

I think by 'fine' before Landy, he means Brian seemed more intact mentally, albeit ill. Under Landy he became less ill but more mentally damaged. 

There is a key difference that you hit on there. I do think that Landy caused him irreparable mental damage. I think he was mentally ill regardless, but that Landy's treatment left him mentally damaged. I don't think those are the same thing at all, though. He was prone to depression and had auditory hallucinations regardless, so that's mental illness. But after Landy, well, he's what he is now: not all there.

It's the lucidity of Brian before Landy that makes a difference. He could be an excellent conversationalist. It was part of his personality. I have had the privilege to hear around 7 or 8 pre Landy interviews and he seems really normal in an eccentric kind of way. I'm not saying he was mentally all together, but he seemed like he could look after himself. By 1975 he was in a very bad way, but I argue strongly that he was hardly a hard core addict until 1972-73. Probably after Murry died really. The mental issues (in a minor way) predate the drugs, but I doubt it ever would have gotten as bad without them.

How can you say for certain that it doesn't qualify as mentally ill?

I think we're having some problems with the definition of 'mentally ill' here. I guess those people who study it for decades do too, then it's ok.

^ I think you're right. I think some people are saying you need to be incapacitated, batshit crazy to qualify. I disagree with that.

I had a very public breakdown. Got sectioned. That qualify as mentally ill in your book ? 'Cause my doctors sure thought so.

i am.....  ;D

In my opinion, Brian was just kinda wanting to get away from it all from 1969-1972. Depressed, yes taking drugs but I think it was just a little sadness and alienation that kept him in the bedroom during that period. When he did come out, it was terrific and he sounded terrific, everything from Sunflower to the "Awake" demo and even the Spring stuff. In '72 it turned much worse, I think, and Carl even said that this was the period where it got serious. The fact that he didn't contribute to roughly half the CATP album is a sign for the worse, and Brian himself stated in Endless Harmony that he was in a very bad way during the Holland sessions, although his work on "Mount Vernon" is superb, he does sound a bit deranged as the Pied Piper, charming, but deranged. I think that the serious period was 1973-1975. 74 he did only a little work; it ranges from terrific ("Good Timin'") to fun ("Rollin' Up to Heaven," "Child of Winter) to terrible ("Battle Hymn"). In 75 "Why Do Fools" is not very good, I don't care for the falsetto on Johnny Rivers "Rhonda"and by the time of "Back Home" his voice is fun but fairly shot. The fact that he didn't produce much for the rest of the year shows that he was in quite a bad way.

This is how I see it, and excuse the over-simplification....

When Brian re-emerged, "got out of bed", re-joined the group in late 1975, it was the first time many had seen/heard him THAT bad. It was the weight gain, the beard with long, greasy hair, raspy voice, AND, most importantly, the shaky hands. That was always something that disturbed me. The guy was shaking, both his hands and his legs. Right there was a sign that something was seriously wrong. SERIOUSLY wrong.

The next alarming moment was when he was allowed to interview in 1983, after hooking up with Landy for the second time. The first time I saw Brian then was on Entertainment Tonight, the "I've been up, down, under, over; but I'm still here, and I'm still rocking" segment. I was stunned - and heartbroken. Oh, with the weight loss, trimmed beard, combed hair, and Hawaiian shirt, he looked great. But, those eyes. He wasn't all there, he was gone....And the way he kept rolling his tongue along the inside of his cheek, and the hands were still shaking. I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I felt that Brian was gone; I've seen people like that, I've worked with people like that. What did Landy do to him after 1982?

I don't want to belabor this, but it's my nature, so I will.  ;) If the question is "was Brian mentally ill before the 70s/Landy?" it seems to me that the reasons not have nothing to do with the question. They are things like "he was still making music," "he was still lucid," "he could still take care of himself," etc. And those don't in any way hint he wasn't mentally ill. Contrarily, having auditory hallucinations, depression and having breakdowns are by definition mental illnesses. You don't need to have terminal cancer to be physically ill; you don't need to be a 300 lb babbling showerless bedridden man to be mentally ill. It seems to me people don't want to acknowledge he was mentally ill because of the stigma attached to the term: "oh, he can't have been mentally ill because that means crazy and he can't have been crazy because I like his music." It's not a bad thing that he was born into a family that had obviously hereditary mental illness. There's nos hame in it. He's not a lesser composer, arranger or singer for it.

What I am pointing out by saying he was lucid and writing music and not 300 pounds and unwashed in the early 70's is that he didn't need something as drastic as Landy then. He needed help very early on, as I said twice before 1963 is the first sign something wasn't right. It's only after let's say Murry's death, give or take a year, that it becomes clear that he was having problems outside your common mental issues. That's why the question of could anyone else have helped is raised. I am pretty sure that until Murry died he could have been helped a lot easier.

I'm with Dada and Luther that while Brian showed signs of mental illness beforehand, Landy left him mentally damaged the second time around.  As Sheriff John Stone points out, there was just something so different about Brian after '82.  In interviews not too long before that time, when Brian was at his worst - like the Les Chan interview - Brian is lucid (I agree, MBE), consistent, and sometimes even funny (in a good way).

But in interviews from '83 through the next decade or so, Brian seems like he's rattling off coached lines or his answers are just awkward.  He sounds like he's saying what Landy has programmed him to say or parroting Landy catchphrases - not so much what he really thinks and feels.  He seems better today, but the change is still there.  For the longest time after '82 it seemed almost like an Invasion of the Body Snatchers kind of thing, and the real Brian would only peek through in the music or in rare interview moments.

I too enjoy belaboring this, as well as trying to make myself clear, which is generally hopeless, but still...
To say BW was mentally ill because he had some sort of breakdown just doesn't jive with me. The auditory hallucinations thing I always thought started later, though Brian claims they were in the 60's (and he would know, except he doesn't always actually seem to remember things correctly, so maybe he wouldn't). Maybe I simply do not understand the definition of mental illness. Oh yeah, there isn't one. Obviously what I think is VERY irrelevent since I have no credentials other than being a fellow human, but BW's 'problems' seem like they were minor and manageable until Murry died and only then, with the help of lots of drugs did he begin to lose control of himself. But really, i don't know squat and will happily admit that this version of events is strictly my personal fantasy. Happy new year folks!

Brian was an intriguing figure from 1967 - 1975 because that period, more than any other, we didn't see or hear as much from him. There aren't an over abundance of audio or video tapes of him to get a good guage. So, where am I going with this?

I don't think it's arguable that Brian needed care from, say, 1976 to present. What I mean is a wife/guardian/conservator, or whatever was necessary for Brian to live outside of managed care. He was not capable of living on his own and managing his own affairs. But, what about before 1975? Does anybody think Brian was ever able to function on his own, say post-1968? Just asking....

Let's say between 68 and 75, he decided to cut off from the band, family and relatives, and they had failed to convince a judge that he was incapable. And he moved to another city, like... New York.

Brian had a perpetual influx of royalties cash. He wouldn't have to be a productive person. But would he be able to avoid the leeches, hangers-on and drug dealers?

Definetly NO!

Well, that's the question, the real issue, isn't it. I was gonna go all the way back to 1965 or 1966. Would've Brian ever been able to live on his own?

Well of course there are definitions of mental illnesses. You're right, there isn't one. But there are plenty.

Friends of Brian's say he was able to take care of himself back then. Ed Roach, Steve Shapiro,Debbie Keil etc. By 1975 he needed a minder. Except for the breakdown in 1964 he didn't seem to make a public spectacle of himself until about 1974. The Be Bop A Lula incident etc.

What Be Bop a Lula incident?!

Also, I seem to remember Dean Torrence saying Brian was the same old guy and still played basketball with Dean sometime in the 70's.

I agree with you totally. I think that 75% of Brian's problems in the 60's and early 70's were just severe depression, and anxiety. The LSD, hash, pills and Nitrus Oxide just made it worse. It wasn't untill his dad died that you could honestly call his problems "mental illness". Landy messed his brain up beyond repair. Today, I'm not sure that Brian can do a simple task like shopping totally on his own. THAT is "mental illness".

He went to the Whisky in 1974 where Jazz player Larry Coryell (sp?) was playing. He was dressed in his robe and pajama's. He started noticeably beating his thighs together to the music then tried to jump on stage. He fell. Crying he sat back down. Then he jumped again and landed on stage. He ran up and started singing Be Bop A Lula interupting the jazz music. Larry tried playing along for a minute and then security came and threw Brian out.

Interesting point is that Brian never has truly lived on his own (with one possible exception). Consider:

1942-1962 - with parents
1962-1964 - with Bob Norburg and then own place, but essentially lived at the Rovell's house
1964-1979 - with Marilyn (and Landy 1975-76)
1979-1982 - with Carolyn Williams
1982-1991 - with Landy & Surf Nazis
1991-1992 - with Kevin Leslie
1992-1995 - this is the exception, but I can't imagine he didn't have someone TCB: can you imagine Brian cooking, or cleaning house ? Of course, Melinda rekindled the relationship in summer 1993 and soon became his conservator.
1995-date - with Melinda.

There is a breakdown in definitions here. Severe definition IS a mental illness. That isn't me making things up. That is fact. A person doesn't need to be incapacitated--unable to do a "simple task like shopping totally on his own" to be mentally ill. But I give up on this one.

This is fun stuff! I would love to be a fly on the wall in the Wilson household for a week, just to see this, since yes, I can actually imagine him cooking. No gourmet stuff, but, say, fried sausages and pasta, definitely! :) Not cleaning the house, though.

You mention '92-'95 -- how about his housekeeper, Gloria?  I had an aunt that subscribed to the National Enquirer, and I'd somtimes read that fine publication when I visited her.  Anyways, sometime after Landy was gone, they published a series of photos of Brian walking the streets looking distressed, accompanied by a Hispanic woman described as his housekeeper.  She was also described as walking him back to his car after a visit to the doctor.  Gloria's name has been included in acknowledgements on some of Brian's CD's and has been mentioned by him in interviews as an important person in his life.  Maybe she's an unsung hero in helping Brian out.  I think her employment with him goes back to the Landy days and continued after he married Melinda.

I think he moved out of the Bellagio house in mid-'78; for about a year there (maybe less) I think he was on his own, but then Debbie Kiel was around, wasn't she?

Thanks, both of you, for filling in the blanks, and shame on me for forgetting about Gloria, who has been a VERY important part of Brian's life since pre-Melinda. And of course there are photos of Debbie in Nick Kent's disturbing - but sadly entirely accurate - 1980 interview/portrait with Brian in the NME.

So, to recap & revise:

1942-1962 - with parents
1962-1964 - with Bob Norburg and then own place, but essentially lived at the Rovell's house
1964-1978 - with Marilyn (and Landy 1975-76)
1978-1979 - with Debbie Keil
1979-1982 - with Carolyn Williams
1982-1991 - with Landy & Surf Nazis
1991-1992 - with Kevin Leslie
1992-1995 - with Gloria Ramos (housekeeper, etc.): Melinda rekindled the relationship in summer 1993 and soon became his conservator.
1995-date - with Melinda.

What of the stories about Brian gaining weight and smoking again in the 92-95 period?

Yes it's true you don't understand the definition of mental illness - and yes, there is one - in fact more than one - an entire spectrum of mental illnesses including schizoaffective disorder, depression, manic-depressive disorder, schizophrenia, and many more, all with REAL definitions and most with treatments that have been scientifically evaluated for effectiveness.  I suspect Marilyn, Carnie and Wendy, Van Dyke, and others would disagree that BW's problems in the 60's and early 70's were "minor" ("convince me I'm not insane Van" anyone?), and Desper himself has said that in 1969-1971 Brian was in a bad way.  So yeah, you can of course think what you want but it seems the "evidence" indicates that your fantasy of events is just that.

He had started gaining weight again around 1991, even before Landy left the scene. As far as smoking goes, I would venture to guess that started up again around the same time, although apparently he was still smoking weed during the Landy years and  (I think) gave that up for good after Landy left. He quit smoking cigs in 1994.

Oh? Check this wild ride out!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu-H1m0dG6w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu-H1m0dG6w)

Shouldn't Tom Cruise be in that video clip? "You're glib."

LOL. The person who posted that clip also posted ones about the polar ice caps growing (not melting), 9/11 conspiracy theories, some kind of magic fire at a church and the "Holocaust fraud exposed." Yeah, it all sounds legit. I'd believe anything that person said: strictly on the level.  :lol

He seems like the most confused person ever as he has videos that speak badly of Clinton AND Bush Sr.

I wager $100 this was the guy who got picked last in Dodgeball.  :lol

I think he's just a sucker for a good conspiracy theory. EVERYBODY IS OUT TO GET US!

It's the mind gangsters from Spector.

Clearly the body of evidence would suggest that Brian has suffered will mental health issues almost all of his adult life.  That's not all that unique among especially creative people.  It's interesting that Murry also clearly had issues and like many health problems, depression, bipolar d/o, etc. have a tendency to run in families.  Add the screwed up family to the mix as well.

One point....no one can really diagnose based upon observations of a public figure from a distance nor can they claim "all is well".  This is an issue between the patient and their physician.

Landy clearly saved Brian's life at one point...then clearly abused his position of authority given the intoxication of money and fame.  The brain damage issue is a bit dicey.  Brian looks like an older guy on psych-meds to my eyes.  I'm not sure what Landy gave him legally that would have damaged his brain.  Certainly massive quantities of cocaine didn't do his neurons any good.  Anyone know if Brian ever over-dosed and went without oxygen even for a short period? 

How about the reports of Brian still driving? I had heard years ago that he doesn't drive anymore. However there was teh account of him driving himself to teh hospital in the Smile sessions era (2004?) and a feature on hime that had him driving a reporter around.

Yep. He still drives, although for a few years he didn't.


In addition to the meds Brian was given by Landy for "theraputic reasons", Brian was also abusing Xanax at the time, apparently by choice.

I have already said so much on this subject. But suffice to say that when the therapist believes that there is something he is controlling and directing that is changing the client, he has lost his therapeutic alliance, and potentially is deluded that what he is doing IS changing the client. In my opinion, clients change when they are ready to change and feel safe enough to do so. Brian took more rlsks after Landy in terms of personal and musical risks than he ever did when Landy was there. I credit Landy with confining Brian enough to keep him from using  cocaine into oblivion in the mid 80s. He clearly helped in this regard.

Good to see you online, Peter. Hope all has been well with you.

I think it goes without saying that you too were instrumental in saving Brian. Everything I've ever heard or read has confirmed what a good friend you have been to Brian. I think all of us here owe you a huge debt of gratitude, as does Brian himself.

I'd substitute 'instrumental' for 'critical'.

Ah, that's the word I was looking for, thanks!

:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow

I've never heard of this. Care to elaborate?

I've only read the article that was republished in The Dark stuff. Was it the same one? If it was, then not everything was 100% accurate, as it also claimed that Mike Love &  Al Jardine weren't on Love You! One thing about the story that always cracked me up was the "Jacuzzi? JACUZZI?!" part. I know it's not supposed to be funny, but for some reason it was to me.

I talked to Debbie about the article and she says it's utter bull. Brian eating cigarette ash, him not knowing her name etc. She says Kent was a herion addict who trashed people that kindly helped him get access to Brian. BTW she is a very smart person not an airhead at all like he tried to make her out to be.

...and a very fine New Year to all of you too!

The mental illness(es) of Brian Douglas Wilson are one of the most attractive, nay addictive, issues in all of pop music's chequered history. The reasons are not that obscure - the concept of the mad genius artist is an evergreen; and relaying a Brian Wilson story is much more rewarding than phoning someone and saying him/her that Bruce Springsteen just mowed his lawn. And it is simply an oft-tested and proven hypothesis that the most sensitive and creative minds are so frequently also the most sensitive and vulnerable. I would conjecture that this is in part due to a type of intelligence in the extreme: one's brain is able to run through countless different calculating imaginative 'runs' as to what the outcome of any strategy in one's chosen line of work would be in reality; and only those who do have this blessing in terms of 'fantasizing a potential outcome' have such seemingly limitless powers to actually realize one (i.e. the best possible) of many paths in music, painting, writing, and so on, within an acceptable space of time (this latter condition is essential). A comparison with the best of sportspersons is not far-fetched, because brilliant soccer or tennis players don't rely on only their superb reflexes (which is what many people think). They have the queer ability to 'calculate in' all factors involved within microseconds (weather, state of the ground, their own physical condition, the necessary spin, the mental state of the opponent(s), and so on) and to act or react rightly more than most of their adversaries.

I'd say that Brian no doubt is gifted with these capacities in the extreme. His ability to fantasize must be hard or impossible to grasp for us lesser mortals. And there must be a quaint and very rich way he stores musical memories, recombines them in his mind to form new possibilities.

But it all has a potential downside. People like him are vulnerable in the extreme to traumatic life events (TLE's, as they are now mostly called). We know for a couple of years now that with a certain genetic makeup, and with the bad fortune of having to undergo a limited number of very unsettling events in a certain span of one's life, the proneness to depression and various neuroses (anxiety disorders) sharply rises.

I am sure any child psychiatrist would tell you that even if only ten percent of Murry's 'educational efforts' that are doing the rounds really happened, Brian would firmly have been a prime candidate to experience what he actually did undergo. Which all sounds like ancient Greek drama, and it is. His life story was more or less determined when he was born. I don't find the stories about him feeling hounded by Spector all that absurd; fragile people with prodigious talent often have trouble to check reality when they are under great pressure. In his case, it may well have been a deep feeling of not being acknowledged, not as a human being, nor in the sense that he was allowed to realize his utmost best ideas - instead, he might have felt like being reduced to a productive thing that brought in money, and like being chained so that he only was praised when he delivered all those hits, much less so when he tried for other things.

The famous 'Firehats'-myth is a prime example of what psychiatrists call 'thought-action fusion', a type of magic-thinking that makes the subject believe that mental, harmless processes in him cause terrible events on an entirely different spot. Again, this demonstrates the inability to do a brief 'reality-check'.  A much more recent example is the story of a girl that was treated in 2002 because she had developed a strict belief that she herself had brought on the events of 9/11 merely by thinking about them beforehand. Now, in children these beliefs are usually seen as fairly normal in the developmental sense (but this girl harboured them extremely). But in adults they are seen as a psychiatric problem. It may be surprising for some that actually 9 out of 10 people have such delusions; but they have them only very transiently and are able to dismiss them as nonsense almost the second they pop up. With Brian, no doubt, the situation was different, no doubt.

From what I know, Brian did not come into the world as a psychotic person. But I am convinced that his father killed off his eldest son's fragile mental stability and turned it into extreme lability, and actually installed so much fear and anxiety in him that Brian developed symptoms of what one also sees in post-traumatic stress disorders (PTSD) - delusions, panic attacks, and self-medication by way of substance abuse.

All of which is not to say that Carl and Dennis were not abused. In part they experienced in their adulthoods what Brian went through too. And they too had their substance abuse problems. But Brian is that special case, where so much that could work to his benefit actually began to work against him when his depression became florid - and that includes weird fantasies which he could not identify as being figments of the imagination anymore.

It is a matter of a delicate balance having been tipped the wrong way; the technical side of it is that an enormously complicated system of neurotransmission got disrupted, and various brain areas got implicated too. But that does not detract from the human side of it at all: the story of a gifted artist and his depressive illnesses.

I have to say all I can say about Brian's health is what I hear in his music and what I've read or seen in interviews and a couple of books. But yeah, it is interesting.

Up to the end of the 80s I remember thinking of Brian as your archetypal '60s casualty. I think there was an article in a newspaper's weekend magazine when his autobiography came out, which fully illustrated the weirdness of it all. It was obvious from this that his problems ran deeper than the occassional flashback. One of his problems at the time was Landy. But I don't think any one person should carry the can for what has happened to Brian. Perhaps wrongly, I believe parts of his autobiography. Brian went through periods of not wanting to be alive, riddled with self-hatred and doubt.

From the mid-60s onwards, there's some undertones in his music which are dark. Not his lyrics, necessarily. Take something like Do It Again as 45 single, play as a 33. Death chords. Speed them up and they turn manic. That's summer 'n surf. Ditto Breakaway which sounds like a perfect pop song warped by having been left in the sun in the back of a car. Brian's state of mind is in his music, somewhere. Controlled hysteria. At one point he wasn't able to get back to where he had felt most comfortable, writing hit pop songs with ease and filling up an album like Summer Days. Moving away from his comfort zone into a world of kids and contracts. Murry died, closing another door to the past. Brian wasn't really a rock'n'roll star and his career was lost. Like many people he bases his self-esteem on his career. Unlike many people he had access to the strongest drugs in 70s Hollywood.

By '77 he was frazzled. Landy did physically repair him and in this aspect his therapy can be considered a success. But Brian at this stage could not be patched up like a boat and sent off to sea. From what I see, by 1973/74 he needed everyday help and the patience of everyone around him. From a medical point of view, if he'd have been an everyday Joe, he would have spent the rest of the 1970s and perhaps the 1980s in hospital.

'Will the Landy-cane cow be
butchered to death with his brother?'

(freely mis-quoted from the Candy Face Lane-poem by Stephen Kalinich - 1969)

Hello! This is my first post here... and I must say... a nervous breakdown IS a sign of mental illness. I am 22 years old, and I've had like three or four in the past five years.

Anxiety happens months or years before a nervous breakdown... Brian's worrying about things such as if he music will make it, and wanting to continue to do music only in the studio earlier on yet still touring, are signs.

After a nervous breakdown, well, at least in my case, and Brian's... the anxiety seems to never go away. It's chronic anxiety, sort of like a panic attack that lasts all day and night, when most panic attacks seem to last 5 - 15 minutes or so.

I was diagnosed with anxiety a long time ago, but my first nervous breakdown happened in early 2006 after an argument with my Dad. Trust me, a nervous breakdown changes everything in one's life. From like June to September, I stayed in my room and would piss in cups due to the fear of leaving my room. It's frightening.

When a nervous breakdown happens, it lasts for a little while, if it lasts for a day, the next day, while you aren't having a nervous breakdown, you'll feel weird, de-realization (a dream like state), and sort of hung over, while not having a clue why. It'll lead to panic attacks and you'll become withdrawn, etc.

God it's horrible.

Once someone gets on medications for those kinds of things, they usually always become a different person. \

I worry a lot, and have been known to piss into a cup from time to time. What medication should I be on?
Seriously, though - sorry for your brain troubles. I hope you've got em sorted.

Since ~1990, there have been decent medications that can enable someone like Brian to live a normal life. It's still important to remember that Psychiatry is an inexact science.

Wasn't Brian obsessing over Phil Spector's "Mind Gangsters" and having conversations in the middle of the swimming pool, as to avoid being wiretapped, in the mid-1960's? I know he was hearing voices in the 1960s as well. That is severe psychosis.

There is a pattern of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder blossoming in the early 20's and getting progressively worse as a person ages. Brian fits this pattern to a "T," and while I think that LSD and Hash are wrongly blamed for his mental problems in some peoples' narratives, they are mind-altering drugs which can trigger a breakdown in a mentally vulnerable person.

Interestingly, however, recent research has shown that certain disorders (such as schizophrenia) become more mild at around age 60. Perhaps this explains Brian's recent productivity and self-assuredness at times. .

Brian Wilson is able to drive a car, and yet some of you assume that he is unable to shop for groceries or clean the house? It seems like they've stabilized him to a pretty good point if he can drive a car, after being so publicly stigmatized for his mental illness.

While his brain chemistry was unquestionably changed by his experience with Landy, I think his hollow-eyed look today is perhaps also a function of not wanting to deal with reporters' bull s h i t. It's easy to see how when he is being interviewed and he gets lobbed the same softball questions, i.e. "Are you feeling better these days?" or "Tell us about your experiences with your father," he doesn't want to answer, and he manipulates the interviewer by giving nonsequiter answers, or, more commonly, he tells them what they want to hear, even leading him to contradict himself within a ten minute interview several times.

You can see when he has an interviewer, or a crowd, that he finds sympathetic enough, or the "vibes" are right, or he is having a good day, he is miles and miles beyond his Landy-Era self in terms of lucidity. I have also seen him on bad days, when, I suppose, he is hearing voices - those of Danny Hutton and Murray.

- b00ts

P.S. I took a few courses on psych. By no means an expert. Etc. Etc.
P.P.S. I have, however, a library of books and articles about Brian and the Beach Boys, and my mom says I'm super smart.

I'm reliably informed (by someone with experience in this area) that being a passenger in a car driven by Brian can take years off your life.  ;D

Is this the Debbie related to Brian in the 1970s - 80s?

http://debbiekeilphoto.com/

Don't think so - last I knew she went by Debbie Keil-Holtsclaw.

I remember someone saying that Kalinich needed an operation a few years back and Brian volunteered and insisted to drive him home.

Yeah... Stevie told me about that.  :)

Sounds good! I'd take away 1997 and 1998, those pretty much sucked! ;D