The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hey guys - I'm sort of new to the Beach Boys, just got into them over the summer through downloading (AND LATER BUYING!!!) the obvious introductory stuff - Pet Sounds, the stuff from Smile, etc.

Anyway...

I know this is sort of a dumb question, but out of curiosity, does anyone know the last song or songs featuring Brian's older style of vocals before the way he sounded on Love You? Any songs that sound "transitional"? Please tell me it's not "Magic Transistor Radio".

And my first post ever is in the wrong forum.

Can someone move this? :\

Actually there are several things after Magic Transistor. One is him playing Mt. Vernon for a reporter in 1973 or so. Bad quality but interesting. Another I have heard is Hard Times AKA Rolling Up To Heaven aka Ding Dang (dirty version). It was recorded in late 1974 and is a comical harmonised ditty with a lot of swearing repeated over and over. It's really funny and actually produced very well by Brian. Another late 1974 recording (which is the only one of these to come out) is Child Of Winter. Brian's biggest part is his Grinch voice in the middle but he's prominent on the back up. Finally there are two late 1974 demos I never heard. One is an early version of California Feeling which is supposed to be the last really great Brian vocal and one is called Lucy Jones which AGD described as shouty but I assume not hoarse. He also did some guest vocals from 73-75. The 1973 American Spring session you can hear him a little on Shying Away. Not really upfront but he is probably in there. He also sang Help Me Rhonda with Johnny Rivers, Why Do Fools Fall In Love with California Music, and Boat To Sail by Jackie De Shannon. These are all from 1975. On the 75 cuts he doesn't sound quite like Love You maybe more like he does on MIU. The first time you can really hear the vocal damage is on Back Home from 15 Big Ones. It was recorded fall of 1975.

Great post MBE.

I actually love Brian's vocal on Back Home though -  it's coarse but full of feeling, gritty and exuberant. I can believe that he believes the words he's singing. Heartfelt.

Rollin' Up to Heaven is definitely the latest song with Brian's old school voice that I've heard.

Couldn't you also argue that Brian's voice was different in 1971 than it was in 1965? Thinner, less "choirboy," so much so that when I first   heard "Til I Die" as a new fan, I didn't realize that was Brian on the solo parts. Maybe that particular change was just him moving into a more adult voice, but it's interesting that his voice has gone through so many changes. He definitely even sounds different now than he did 10 years ago. If you put all the voices together , they sound like five or so different people. His own band!

Although I don't like the song.... "Matchpoint Of Your Love" for me, was the last time Brian sang, well, like Brian. However, the vocals he did while he was working with Gary Usher "Still A Mystery", "I'm Broke", "Chain Reaction Of Love" etc.... Re: "Still A Mystery"... with Brian, Mike and Al... on vocals makes me yearn for the a project (Album) that will probably never happen. :-[

The last time that I've heard Brian sounding anything close to his 1964 voice is on the last few seconds of Love Is a Women from the 1977 Maryland show.

Yes, I agree! And I love the song.

But there is a fairly recent song, Brian's take on Carl's "Heaven", which I think is his best vocal since "Matchpoint". I can't believe how clear and emotional he sounds on it....

It's funny you mention 1965 as I think You're So Good To Me is the first you hear of Brian's more adult undamaged voice ala Til I Die. I think he just developed a stronger mid range. Afterall at the end of Til I Die he hits the high notes perfectly.

If I had to pick one pst 1974 moment, he actually sounds like an older version of the original Brian Wilson on the 1994 take of GIOMH. It's the only time I can really hear that old phrasing.

If I had to really think about it I feel his voice went through three distinct phases. One is the pre 1975 voice. He sounded older by the seventies but so did every other member of the group. Afterall he was 19 when the Beach Boys started and you do sound different as a teen then you do as an adult. Listen to even the Candix Surfer Girl, it's a bit higher then the Capitol take. Then you get the smokey voice he used from 75-82. Sometimes like at the MIU sessions (for both the Beach Boys and Spring) it was on pitch and had some range. At times it was horrible. By 1983 Brian began to sound like he does now, just much less disciplined. I think he has made some great strides as a singer loosing most of the whiny quality that ruins many of the Landy era recordings. He seems to understand what his range is better and selects a more approprate part more times then not.  Still I have to say that while I enjoy his voice at times since 1975, he isn't often an amazing singer since then. Pleasent for sure, sometimes quite effectively plaintive (MAD "Love and Mercy") but not "Brian Wilson".

BTW I do like Back Home for what it is. I mean it makes me sad in one way because it ends the classic era, but what did on it is quite fun.  He isn't hitting any bum notes, or trying to sound like his old self so it works.

I get what you're saying - I didn't know it was him during the solo parts of "'Til I Die" at first, either. But on that song and others, he still sounded like Brian. When I first heard "Solar System" I had to check a few times just to make sure that it was really him - there was only a few years difference in those two songs, too. Damn cocaine to Hell :(

Don't get me wrong with this thread - I do agree that he's recognized the change and has really learned to roll with the punches, he sounds less awkward than he used to, and I still enjoy his voice nowadays. I've just sort of been curious about this for a while.

I think there is a difference between even 70 and 65. His falsetto was very pure in the early days. From Youre so good to me on he has a slightly abrasive quality. It will sound strange, and people will not like it, but, you know, I think from 65-70 he sounds a bit like Axl Rose.

I like his sound on Love You and 15BO personally. The only period where his voice really drives me nuts in a bad way is late eighties and early nineties. He just sounds like crap on some of those BW or Sweet INsanity songs. I can overlook it on BW, because the rest of the music really does it for me, but SI pretty much blows donkeys.

I tend to think of Brians voice in these categories;

1962-1967 - Full of confidence, high notes often sung in chest voice rather than pure falsetto (Think 'Wouldn't it be nice'), quite a 'trained' and full sound, a good example of the properness is Brians leads on the traditional side of the Christmas album.
1967-1972 - Loss in confidence leads to a quieter and thinner sounding voice, rather than projecting the higher range like before often is sung in proper falsetto (head voice). Think 'Good time'. Also vocals are less 'mannered' or 'proper' with more natural feelling as if Murry has stopped telling him how to enunciate. This is my favourite era of Brians voice where he does perhaps sound more 'Mickey Mouseish'. I love the fadeout of 'Forever' as an example.
1975-1982 - Give or take the odd smoother vocal ('Matchpoint), this is Brians gruff era, 'Back home' is a good example and so is 'Solar System', plus loads of outtakes. I particularly like Brians falsetto in this era though as it sounds quite shrill and emotive (His bits on 'Airplane', Middle 8 on 'You've lost that loving feeling', 'She's got rhythm'). To my mind he sounds a bit more like Frankie Valli in this era too falsetto wise in the slightly off-key shrillness. A good example of this is 'Sherry she needs me' (perhaps namechecking the 4 seasons song?) which might be my favourite song of the era, perhaps with the vocals adding something to the 1965 backing track that would have been lacking actually in 1965?
1983 - 1995 - Hard to really pinpoint the beginning and endpoints of this voice, but basically this is Brians less gruff but more whiny and slurred 80s voice as exemplified on BW88 and Sweet Insanity. I actually don't mind the falsettos here at all, though they are sounding quite strained. My favourite album of this era might be 'Orange Crate art' which is less robotic sounding than Brians outings perhaps as Van Dyke was egging him on? However the Paley sessions must be mentioned as 'GIOMH' (original version) and 'You're still a mystery' have his best vocals in many years.
1998-2008 - A more mellower, less whiny sound overall though lacking in clarity but perhaps slightly more pleasing. SMiLE is pretty good and we even get a grand (shouted) falsetto on the 'Childrens song' bit in Surfs up. Also leads like on the single tracked 'Wind chimes' are lovely. Brians cover of 'Heaven' as mentioned is a great vocal too.

So for me, Brians voice has 5 eras!

How about "Winter Symphony"?

Check out Brian's shared lead with Mike on "Wontcha Come Out Tonight" from M.I.U.  I don't know why people always overlook this one; it's a superb vocal - better than "Matchpoint".  IMO this is the last song where you can hear the voice of the "old Brian". He could still do it. I'm glad Mike and Al dragged him off to Iowa and got these vocals out of him, even if the songs suck.

I don't know what happened between this point and 1979 (well, I have a few guesses  :-\), but check out Brian's lead on the early version of "Oh Darlin"...  a good reference point for his transition into the bizarre shouty, slurred, 80's voice. 

matt-zeus good post and I tend to agree with your points. Oh Darlin is a little more gruff then later but there is that whineyness. I really don't hear it too much though until some of the live 1983 vocals. He slurred less in 83 though. By 1986 he had the slur pretty bad which he still has in his speaking voice. Funny enough last time I heard him speak with no slur was in 1990 on a ET report on David Marks.

I've always had this opinion and it might be a bit controversial but I always think that the gruff voices on 15 Big Ones and Love You were slightly put on. Listening to things like "Sherry, She Needs Me," he's gruff as hell on the verses but once the refrains hit he's much smoother, clearer and lighter, especially in the falsetto; "Airplane" has that on the "clouds in the sky" and the "down, down, on the ground". It always seemed to me that he was putting a little bit of it on, since he could easily sing more naturally in a less gruff register.

So "Hard Times" was also a alternate title for "Rolling Up To Heaven"? Isn't there a Chaplin/Fataar song from the around the same time also titled "Hard Times"?

No, I think had to do with his love of chilled wine. If his chilled sherry "starts crying", it's because he hasn't drank it, he neglected it, he left it alone, and now there's condensation on the glass. A woman has convinced him to give up drinking, although he hopes his sherry "keeps her cool" and that he and his new girlfriend can be "friends with her [sherry]" again some day. He hopes his sherry doesn't hate his new girlfriend because she took him away from drink. Unfortunately, drinking didn't work out the way he planned it, but maybe he can still drink now and again.

Ah, I see now why they rewrote it from 'Sandy she needs me'.

I had no idea Brian was doing any recording from 73-75! I thought he was withdrawn in his bedroom. Or has that been much exaggerated?

Yeah I think it is over exaggerated in a lot of cases... like on the back of Heroes & Villains when it says he stayed in bed for 20 years!! Really? That long? I think Brian has always had the odd moment of inspiration even in his lean years.

I recently heard a Brian recording (piano/vocal demo) not in the hands of collectors -- I'd rather not say where I heard it or which song it was -- that stunned me because it was exactly 50/50 Brian's old and new voice.  You could literally hear it turning on this one track...half of it he'd go for the high notes and sound great, but there were other places where he'd croak or go flat.

I heard "California Feeling" once and it's about 75/25 old Brian.  That dates from Nov. '74.

I don't recall the exact date of the session I heard, and Andrew Doe's site doesn't list this particular song being recorded (though I had heard of it). It was clearly late '74 or early '75, though.

Talk about a tease...  ;D

I know!! I wish he'd just said nothing :angry

Nah, it's always great to have something else to hope for.

I know, I was only joking... but I just wish he was able to tell us what song it was at least... although I totally understand why he can't.

I would do horrible, unspeakable things just to know what song it is!

If it was 1975, it had to have been real early in the year. Feb. at the very latest.

I think it was December '74, but I'm not 100% sure.  I could be remembering wrong.  It's in the back of my mind.

Sorry about the tease thing.  Occasionally I happen to be able to hear stuff like this from one source or another just by being in right place/right time, but part of that is people knowing I'm not going to try to gain access or bootleg or talk too much.  It just struck me that this thread came up not long after I'd heard this particular track, so I just wanted to pass along that tidbit.

So, is March '75 when Brian is supposed to have started trying to destroy his voice?  And did he do that through the five-packs-of-cigs-a-day method? 

No, it's totally cool. We--or I, at the very least, but I think we--were just messing with you.

That song is "Hard Time" singular. Hard Times seems to be what Brian is saying. I think it was a dirty joke "She gave me Hard Times". Anyway Badman named it that in his book.

Yep, I'm with you Luther... as I say I totally understand why you can't tell us too much... and I was only joking before, I would much rather know that there is more stuff to be heard (as Luther mentioned before)

I'm not sure if anyone knows the exact date that he started destroying his voice, but as people have mentioned, in late '74 he still had some of his old voice, so it was AROUND that time... but yes I imagine the five packs a day method didn't do him any good... there's that story in Timothy White's book where funnily enough it's Dennis who is telling Brian to quit smoking all the time.

Oh yes I heard about that "In The Back Of My Mind". I forgot who told me about it but I remember they described it as "heartbreaking". Badman lists it, "Clangin" and a song sung by Mike called "11th Bar Blues" as being from October 1976. I kind of doubt that but "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" is from around that time and he sort of goes back and forth on that. Really though on YLTLF he is much shriller then any pre 1975 vocal. Let's say the "In The Back Of My Mind" is from after the Caribou sessions and before Back Home.

I was going to start a different thread, but I guess it can go here. Does anybody know what the last circulating recording of Brian is that has his "classic", "pure" falsetto/ high voice?  I mean, out of all the demo tapes and studio recordings. Are there any demo recordings circulating from 1974? We know from certain people that the demo of California Feeling(November 1974) has Brian sounding like his old self. But we can't know for sure because it's not been bootlegged. Now, what is the first known instance (that we have audio proof of) that has Brian in his significantly changed voice?

.

Didn't read the whole thread.

It it's the song Adam's mentioning. I 've never heard it, but heard of it.  Mike, so Brian did "In the Back of my mind"? A remake, I mean? I knew of a song Brian recorded in the time period you mentioned, but I didn't know.
Everything I've learned (which is not everything there is, not by a long shot) leads me to believe that first came Lucy Jones & California Feeling (I think they were recorded the same day), then "Adam's song" then "MBE'S song", then Back Home was the debut of Brian's "new" voice. Clanging was earlier in the year. I've never heard that either.

I also stand corrected. The song you're referring to was in March of 1975.

Bill Adam said it was "In The Back Of My Mind" a few posts after his original so he and I are talking about the same song. I never heard it.

Jay again it was "Hard Times" that is the last circulating recording of Brian in really pure voice.

Oh, I thought he meant it was "in the back of his mind" like he couldn't remember. :lol

Subtle tip off I think lol.

While we're talking about Brian's voice over the years, I'd like to share this link to a 1985 performance of "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring" for Reagan's inauguration with all of the surviving Beach Boys at the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vy4eVYJQrs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vy4eVYJQrs&feature=related). I'm sure some of you have already heard it, but hopefully those who haven't will really enjoy it.  It's great watching Brian go all out to capture the old magic of his falsetto with his arm around his brother, Carl. Just watch his face towards the end of the song, as his falsetto becomes stronger and stronger. He seems to completely shock Mike with the strength of his voice during the "whole year round" bit at the end. The facial expression on Mike's face at that point will make you like him a little more as a person (for those of you who hate him or look down on him), trust me. The date of this performance was just over a year after Dennis had died, and it seems like he must have been on their minds that night.

It's funny, the first time I watched this, I was really, really high, and it was incredibly poignant to me. I probably have an inflated view of the performance now, but whatever...

Oh no, it's fantastic. I saw it the night it was performed and it floored me, too. I've read opinions saying that parts of the performance were overdubbed or whatever, but I don't think so. Does anybody have definitive proof either way?

No proof that I know of, but my ears tell me the whole thing is clearly pre-recorded.  It doesn't have a very "natural" sound to it.  And either way, the version from '65 blows this one out of the water.

I think it's live.. what you are probably hearing is Bruce doubling Brian on the lead.  You can hear it best when they hold out "round" near the end.

I think that Brian's voice on the Live in Knebworth concert has a bit of a change to it....Take for instance, his vocals on Sloop John B, I can totally hear Brian from 88 doing that same exact vocal.

That could be it,  you're right.  There is definitely some doubling in there, so that led me to assume it was pre-recorded. 

I heard (maybe from AGD but I'm not 100% on that one) that they're singing on top of a pre-recorded track. So it's like live overdubbing.

I remember reading that on one of the boards too.

Very much sounds doubled.

As I mentioned in an above post, I saw the performance the night it was broadcast in 1985. I videotaped it that night, watched it (in awe) numerous times, and, for about 22 years, never even considered that it wasn't entirely "live", until I read an opinion on a message board.

I'm going way back now, from memory, but I really don't remember any of the televised 1985 Inaugural Ball NOT being live. Did they pre-record stuff back then, and have acts sing or play over it - for an Inaugural Ball? Was it by choice only, because I can't envision an artist like Frank Sinatra, who I think performed,  lipsynching or singing over a pre-recorded track.

I just thought the Beach Boys were using really good microphones, and the sound people did an exceptional job. Curiously, the Beach Boys' instruments are sitting on the stage directly behind them. If they performed any other songs that night, they weren't televised. I also never read any accounts of the guys going into a studio to pre-record "Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring". I guess we weren't supposed to...

The 1985 performance is one of the later day Beach Boys best. Overdubbed or not they have a great bloend. Sure the 1965 one is better, but if Brian had to sing lower in 1985 there is a lot of feeling there. Really it's one of the only post Dennis moments I have watched regularly over the years.

Just re-accquainted myself with that performance, and even allowing for the limitations of youtube, I hear a minimum of 10 voices. In the intro, Brian is clearly double-tracked

They might be singing with a pre-recording, but Brian isn't double tracked on the first note..  Bruce doubles the falsetto lead with him for the rest of the tune though.  The reason for this is I think that Brian might not be singing live at all.

The arrangement only has 4 parts, and you can hear Bruce and Brian together on "whole year rounnnnnnd"

You can hear the double tracking pretty well on the ends of phrases such as the "wintry snow" (C Bb F) bit of Alan's part

Brian is singing live. First, look at his facial expressions; he could never lipsynch or fake it like that. Never. Second, when Mike looks over at Brian, it isn't because Brian is impressing him, it's because Brian hit a clunker, the only one he hits BTW. Which also proves he is singing; if it was in a pre-recorded track, they would've edited that note out.

Again, there is something strange that they left the stage area, where their instruments were set up. Even though the set wasn't televised, do we assume they played some songs - live. Why didn't they just stay on the stage? So, maybe, it was set up with a pre-recorded tape, that they moved to another area, with the lighting different, or the speakers, or whatever. I do, though, find it a little "extravagant", that the producers of the Inaugural Ball would have The Beach Boys pre-record a track to be sung over live the night of the Ball. I mean, this wasn't American Bandstand! If this was 2009, yeah, but 1985?

So, let me get back to the original point of this thread, if I may. I don't have the Badman book at my side right now, but you guys are now saying the "In The Back of My Mind" re-recording is actually from early '75 now? And also has 50/50 Brians "new and old" vocal stylings? Or am I wrong?  Or was it actually from the next year, and he just pulled out a better than usual vocal performance?

Or should we just leave it with "California Feeling" as his last "classic" vocal performance?

1 - the synch on the youtube footage isn't good enough to decide if they're lipsynching or not.

2 - the instruments might belong to some other band.

3 - I still hear at least ten voices: unless they had some form of live ADT back then, there had to be a pre-recorded track.

4 - was the ceremony a live broadcast, or was there time for some post dubbing ?

1. Agree
2. Could be, but they LOOK like the Beach Boys' instruments; would've they brought the guys there for only 3 minutes?
3. That IS the question; I will agree it sounds "full" for only 5 guys
4. I'm pretty sure it was a live broadcast

I listened again and am really as sure as I can be under the circumstances (only my ears and youtube to go by) that it's them doubling a track.

Vis a vis the inaugural ball thing, my recollection was that I thought it was live sung to a tape. If Brian was not doubled at the outset, it may simply be because he missed the cue to start.  If they were singing with a tape (and I think they were), it had to be VERY tricky, because it being a cappella, there would be no way for them to get a click to keep them in time with the original track. No surprise to me if they didn't all come in at once.  I'm amazed they didn't mess it up, honestly.

And yeah, Bruce is clearly doubling Brian all the way through.  I think he did that on the GOIN' PLATINUM special, too, but it didn't help much because Brian was louder than God on that part.

Re the instruments. I think Donna Summer was next so may have been hers.

Multi tracked for sure. I prefer Graduation Day from 84 to display their live vocal chops at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGRSpVl8wss&feature=related

Hard to tell about Brian but they are all reaching for the high notes at the end.

To me, the voice came and went for a long time.  There were some good moments and some really bad moments,,,and they werent sequential.

Some of this had to do with older recordings intermixed with recent recordings of new releases over the years.  And I suspect episodic substance abuse accompanied by heavy smoking between and during some sessions. 
Good weeks and bad weeks...and a few bad years.   I've also suspected medication induced vocal and articulation control problems over the years prior to the advent of atypical antipsychotics ands SSRI's ....but that is just my professional guess.   Seems to me many of his worst vocals were under Landy's watch.

I agree totally, and I wonder what Brian's voice would be like if Landy hadn't given him inappropriate meds for all those years.  Landy seems to have Brian seriously medicated for that '84 "Graduation Day" performance.  During the interview in the second half of the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKg46eth5UU) Brian starts talking about Phil Spector when asked a question about groupies and asks at one point if they can bring Landy up there with them.

My guess is that it would be pretty much the same tone wise, but without the slur that he occasionally has.  Actually I think the biggest difference would be in his speaking voice, where the slurring is more more noticeable. 

You know what flips my sh*t about that? The fact that if they still had enough skill to pull off singing with an a capella track, then they didn't even *need* the track in the first place, so why bother? :lol Talk about wasted effort...we can't even tell the difference!

I think we can safely go with late 1974 as the last great vocals.

When you hear the Johnny Rivers version of "Help Me Rhonda", Brian's high parts sound like his 15 Big Ones voice when he'd try to sing high. I wonder, though, if his backups were slightly sped up.

From Help Me Rhonda '75 to Getcha Back Brian could hit the high notes if he tried. It wasn't pure but he did hit them. It sounded like a much greater effort though, and live it never really came off. I don't know if different tape speeds were involved but I felt things like Help Me Rhonda '75 had Brian mixed a little lower then he wolud have been before.

I just heard "Match Point Of Our Love" for the first time - I know this sounds stupid, but it makes me feel sort of weird. How he somehow managed to go from his Love You voice into a voice that sounds about 80 older/20 newer styled vocals is almost eerie sounding.

I also noticed that it seems like as the song goes on, he sounds more like Love You and less like his older voice - in the beginning you would almost swear there was no change, but by the end, he sounds similar to how he does on Love You, etc.

The falsetto on some parts of "My Diane" is pretty remarkable, too.

Thanks for pointing these tracks out to me, guys - I never really bothered with anything after Love You.

you don't want to miss out on MIU, the best BB album of the last 30 years (There's not that much stiff competition!)

La Light is worth hearing for Dennis' work and Good Timin.

The best BB album of the last 30 years.    Who woulda thunk it?

Nah, that's LA.

Yeah, L.A. Light is much better than MIU.

Still Cruisin' is the greatest Beach Boys album of the last twenty years.

And Summer In Paradise is the greatest BB-album in 14 years   the worst BB-album in 47 years

(sorry, couldn't resist... back to the topic...)

I have to disagree, I find L.A. boring! (I like Good timin though)

Even Angel Come Home?

and


ok, this might sound scary... but I just found a video tape in my collection that says: "Inauguration president Ronald Reagan, Washington D.C., January 19th 1985 - the complete program. Apparently a broadcast on Dutch TV on Jan. 26th (a week later)

Bought someone's vid-collection many years ago and this one is one of them. Can't tell right away what's on them, but I could check what is happening before and after the BB-performance to see if there's an explanation on those instruments being set up.

It's okay, better than 'Love surrounds me'. The worst offender is 'Goin south'.

Really?? The songs from LA that I don't care for are Here Comes the Night and Sumahama. LA is the first (and last) BB album to be dominated by Carl and Dennis since the CATP/Holland-era. It's (mostly) a step up in quality from MIU and a step up in maturity from 15 Big Ones and Love You. It was a hell of a lot better than the albums that followed it. If only they had replaced Here Comes the Night with California Feeling and Lookin' Down the Coast, and Sumahama with another one of Dennis' Bambu songs, then I think LA could've sounded like the natural follow-up to Holland, instead of the half-debacle-stopgap 15BO/quirky and offbeat change in direction Love You/major fiasco MIU arc the BBs went on.

I agree that Here Comes The Night and Sumahama are the worst, but to be fair Dennis still wanted to do another solo album so giving them two of his songs was very generous. Mike had a number of good songs he could have taken from First Love and he picked one of the very worst. Too Cruel, Daybreak, I Don't Wanna Know, so many better ones.

Hmmm, didn't know Daybreak was from that era! Still, I think LA could've benefited from another Dennis song...my apologies to the Lovester, but I have no problem with a Love-free BB album.

A Love-free BB album is not a BB album.

My bottom three from L.A. are Goin' South, Here Comes The Night, and Sumahama.

For me it's Full Sail, Going South and Shortenin Bread (the earlier version was just so much better!)

Shortenin' Bread is pointless, and doesn't even have Brian gruffing the lead vocals. HCTN wins some points for effort, but a four minutes edit wouldn't hurt.

Full Sail, Sumahama and Goin' South are average. Just ok. But that's the problem. Too many average mid-tempo tracks, in an album whre they're not exactly rocking their socks off.

Agree with all of the above points.

"Shortenin' Bread" was such a bad choice; what was the point? Much more appropriate for a 15 Big Ones or Love You. "Here Comes The Night" was controversial to begin with, so why the overkill with 11 minutes of it? It does have some nice moments, but nearly one-third of the total album time? "Full Sail", "Sumahama", and "Goin' South" ARE just average, which is basically what L.A. (Light Album) is; an average album with not enough high points.

Full Sail is a great Carl lead but I'm into sailing so some bias there.

HCTN, aside from being far to long was 2-3 years late trying to get the disco crowd. The Four Seasons, also industry veterans, timed it perfectly with 'Who Loves You' 75-76.

Friends was an almost Love-free BB album. Just take away Anna Lee The Healer and Meant for You and there'd be no Lovester on it.

This thread is going all over the place!  ;D Back to the topic at hand. It looks like Hard Time/Rolling Up To Heaven is the last circulating recording with Brian in "pure" voice. Now, what is the earliest circulating recording of Brian in his gruffy voice? Is it the Back Home recording? Are there any earlier demo tapes that circulate of Brian in his gruffy voice?

No way on Earth(or any other planet) is that Regan Inarguation clip totally live. I hate to say/admit this, but the BB voices on that tape are just way to good to be from 1985.

I honestly don't understand the badmouthing of Shortnin' Bread. Sure, it's pointless. The BB's of 1978 were not even close to the same group that started in 1961. But pay no attention to that fact, Shortnin' Bread is just plain FUN! Listen to that guitar work, and that pounding bass and drums. I listen to the LA album version, and I just HAVE to eventually get into it and dance. Besides, how is it possible to listen to Dennis sing "Mama's little baby loves Shortnin' Bread" in his bass voice, and not get a smile on your face?  ;)

But he's still there. I think the best Beach Boys albums in some ways are the few where everyone gets to do a lead.

Good Timin, Angel, Love Surrounds Me, and Baby Blue are great. Lady Lynda ok Sumahama and HCTN poor. Full Sail, Goin South, and Shortnin filler but not horrid. I love Dennis and think Bambu would have kicked L.A. to bits but he has four leads and two songs on it. Granted he saved the album, but a good all round Beach Boys album could have been made with some of the outakes both group and solo.
Funny we are talking about one of the albums Brian had least to do with on a Brian thread lol.

Was any version of "California Feeling" ever released? I have one version that's downloaded, but it sounds like a demo or a rough mix, something that's a bit generated. Who sings lead on that? Is only one version circulating among fans?

Sorry for all the n00b questions.

No problem, without questions, a person never learns. There is a Brian Wilson band recording of California Feeling that was officially released on one of the greatest hits comps, circa ... 2002? Thereabouts. It's the "Brian Wilson Selects..." Beach Boys greatest hits album, and that's tacked on, a version with his solo band.

The chorus of Wake The World too.

Does anybody know when this recording was made?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lR-YM61R60

Not sure of the year, probably 75 or 76.. but I think this is sped up so that it's a faster tempo and higher pitch.  the clip you posted is in A, while the version I have (part of the Love You demos boot) is in Ab.

We wuz all noobs wunce.  ;D

That sounds like the 1978 recording - Carl on lead, Bruce (errr... or was it Mike ?) on chorus, Brian on whiny high part.

"TSF" is a fall 1976 recording.

"Good Timin, Angel, Love Surrounds Me, and Baby Blue are great. Lady Lynda ok Sumahama and HCTN poor. Full Sail, Goin South, and Shortenin filler but not horrid. I love Dennis and think Bambu would have kicked L.A. to bits but he has four leads and two songs on it. Granted he saved the album, but a good all round Beach Boys album could have been made with some of the outakes both group and solo. "

There were other decent songs around at the time.  Santa Ana Winds, Cal Feelin', Lookin' Down the Coast.  There's a suggestion that Don't Fight the Sea dates originally from 78/79.  The there are other possibilities - Winter Symphony, Go and Get That Girl... If they waited a bit, they could've used It's A Beautiful Day! :) Perhaps a BB recording of Country Pie or a different Mike track culled from his unreleased solo - I like the harminies on Sumahama, but there are better tracks on his album.

I like LA; it's half decent and two or three songs better than MIU (which also could've been improved by sing some 'unreleased' stuff from that era (including Winter Symphony!), but two sluggish Carl ballads is one too many and HCTN is an embarrassment.  Shortenin' Bread is unnecessary (and isn't as rawkishly good as the earlier version) and why include Lady Lynda when there two or three faqr better Al songs?!

Lady Lynda was a big hit. It may not sound good to some modern ears, but it was a hit at the time.

Yes, and it also went over well in concert. The live "Lady Lynda" rocked a little, and was a good showcase for Al. It was his "Disney Girls" for awhile....

Big hit - everywhere except the US.

Occasionally the good ol' U.S. of A. gets it right.  ;)

... and Australia ... it was dead in the water on launch.

They didn't include it because it was a hit.

My ears are hardly modern, but LL really really bites it, and hard. No appeal whatsoever.

Its cheesy, but I have grown to like it.

I think it's a good song; I think it's well produced and sung. With the possible exception of "California" or "PT Cruiser" ;D, it might be the best song Al ever wrote. And, as I mentioned above, it was received well in concerts.

Check out the 1979 Midnight Special performance - it's great!

 ... cough, cough ...

The ending is great, and so are the backing vocals.

Thanks to variable2 and Andrew for the info on That Special Feeling. His falsetto sounds pretty decent on it in my opinion. Better than You've Lost That Loving Feeling, for example.

I've always liked the MIU and LA Light albums. They don't deserve all of the harsh reviews they get.  ;D Although, I think that the best of each album could have just been made into one album. Or a few changes to the song lineup could have been made. They could have gotten rid of Full Sail, the disco HCTN, and Goin' South could have been traded for Country Pie, Looking Down The Coast, and(here's an odd idea....) Wild Situation. Or Under The Moonlight.

Lynda's better than Santa Ana Winds, Lookin' Down the Coast, Lookin at Tomorrow? How much of All This is That did he write? Probably not the lion's share or he would put it on the new album  ;D

The could have left Sumahama and Shortenin' Break on L.A. and still had a great album. Just replace the 11 minutes of Here Comes the Night with California Feeling, San Miguel and Soulful Old Man Sunshine (someone tell him, "Look, Carl, it's a great song, just redo the one park where you said 'Shunshine'")

Of course, they could have done that on 15 Big Ones as well, just take off three of the covers except for Rock and Roll Music (I don't love it, but it was the hit they thought it would be) and Just Once in My Life.

CF is the last one that is 100% his old voice, from everything I've heard over the years...haven't heard the track myself, so I can't really say. "Back Home" is the first track where it's 100% his "new" voice, or at least the first track recorded where Brian is actually audible or the tape speed hasn't been altered.

I put on 15 Big Ones for a few spins recently. Although i would prefer Brian's voice not to have changed so drastically, I do like his voice on Back Home. It's rough but clear, and I wish the damage stopped at that point. I would love to hear BW88, TLOS, Smile 04, and Orange Crate Art with this voice.

Maybe not a "classic" vocal, but I am still impressed with Brian's vocal on the piano demo version of "Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel" from back in the 80's. I found it on youtube under "Brian Wilson Montage". I always wondered if that was really Brian singing or someone else. If it's really Brian, it's a pretty darn good vocal.

:lol That was me who posted that.

Yes it is Brian, although it is slightly sped up like many of the unreleased Landy-era recordings. In my remix, I isolated both the piano and the vocal, and set both to the correct speed as much as possible.

Wow.  I've never seen the pics from 0:21 to 1:14 in that video.  They look like they could be from the late '73 to late '74 time frame.  Anyone have specifics?

They date from 1970-1974. The very first ones from the 38 second mark onwards are from 1973; bearded Brian with the Wolfman fingernails is from 1974. You can see in his face what coke was doing to him. I'll still never understood how a man who did as much coke as Brian still had an appetite to get as big as he did.

I wanted to bump this up.  I know it's old, sorry!

so, is it agreed that Hard Times is the last pre-gruff Brian vocal that is in reasonable circulation?  I'd love to hear more about the In The Back Of My Mind re-recording from anyone who's heard it.. also, did we ever pinpoint when You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling was recorded by Brian?  Thank you much,

Fall 1976.

Yes Hard Times is the last one going around semi freely.

Whoa, this was my first thread/post here and I was just searching for it today. Odd that it'd get bumped a couple hours afterward.

I was considering bumping it as I had some question about something, but now I'm struggling to remember what that was.

Don't know how this fits in the thread, I do have two favourite 'late Brians':

'Getting In Over My Head' (Paley Sessions/Slightly American Music)
'The Warmth Of The Son' and 'Wonderful' (Don Was/IJWMFTT) - these mean a lot to me. They do not sound forced, strained, and TWOTS (silly acronym, that...) has a very, very deep feeling ('the love of my life, she left me one day').

My two Eurocents.

Aren't coke heads supposed to be skinny?!!

That's what trips me out! He was doing coke by the shitload, and at one point then started doing smack...yet got bigger and bigger! WTF?!

Birthday cake and T-bones will make any junkie fat.

There's a lot of fat junkies around...coke, speed, heroin freaks out your metabolism, sends some people in the fat direction...Belushi, Chris Farley, David Crosby... addiction wasn't exactly slimming for them was it?

See, years ago I had my own bouts with coke (not proud of it), and I don't know how anyone can eat on it. Completely ruins the sense of taste and makes everything taste like ass. Eating would be the LAST thing one would want to do, I'd think.

Although it is OT, it is interesting for me. I never did coke, nor any other street drugs. But I do know that cocaine, sex, food, indeed many things that are pleasing have a strong impact in the same two brain areas, Nucleus accumbens and Ventral tegmental area. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that mediates the effects. So I'd guess that cocaine somehow numbs the taste buds and the olfactory senses.

OK, back to Brian's vocal chords then...

Hi everyone, it's my first time posting, chose this thread 'cause I was very impressed with some of the high parts in Brian's singing of Good Vibrations in th SNL episode (the one with the sandbox). Could that time apply as one of his last good live performances?

By the way, you guys have a really cool message board! Thanks for sharing all the cool info :)

Thanks, and welcome to the board!


Not really, because he has had some good performances since. Also, his voice had already changed by that point.

That said, I also quite like it, which puts us in a minority, but hey... :lol

Finally heard 'Boat to Sail' featuring BW on backing vocals...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77LfceN7ltc

Is it just me, or do Brian's backups sound like his 80s vocals?! (Check out the end for a good example).

I always thought coke heads, crack heads and the like were skinny not because the drug did it, but because they spend every penny they get on Coke even to the detriment of food.  Brian's fabulously wealthy so he never ran out of coke money, and therefore was still able to eat as much as he wanted. 

That's a lot of it, but cocaine distorts the taste of food (and drink) to the point where I personally had NO desire to eat or drink anything back when I did it.  Worst thing ever...glass of orange juice after a bump.

You want to hear something weird, then? During the early 1980's, Alice Cooper was an extreme alcoholic. How bad, you ask? To the point where he claims to not remember the entire process of recording and releases three studio albums. The weird thing is that he reportedly started using cocaine around this period, to allow him to be able to drink more.  ???

Thank you Santa for your welcoming message :)

It sounds like he's being backed up by a female singer on those backing vox.

He is. You can best hear him though at the very end.

He sings a song at the end of this 1976 interview....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SPIG_ff6_U&feature=related

His voice his very husky, but you can still hear the "early" Brian underneath it all... trying to hit the falsetto but failing.

What a great singer though !!

Otherwise known as his wife.

Didn't Dr Landy save him?