The Smiley Smile Message Board

Any fellow Yanks here vote today?

Is there an election today? I hadn't heard.

I'm walking on a cloud...   :-D   :-D    :-D 

i wrote in Brian Wilson for Indiana govenor and Palpitine for president.    :lol

I'm happy.

Hell yeah!!!

I voted for Luke Skywalker!

Bungalow Bill's gonna have a field day on Susan's board . John McCain's loss is a disgrace for every hard-working American . If you don't understand that, you are not American .

Guess I'm not "American", then.

I'm gonna watch the flux thread on Susan's board with a big grin on my face. Bungalow Bill's really gonna be lost.

Dude actually made a poll years ago asking who was the greatest president. On said list he had the givens like Washington and Lincoln and Roosevelt but he also had W on there. He also voted for W and wrote a lengthy thesis explaining why.

The oddest thing I saw today was four girls in "VOTE GREEN PARTY OR DIE" t-shirts shouting, "Go Obama!"

Hipster irony?

we are f***ed.....

No we're not, and quite frankly making that kind of statement just shows that you're not open to see what kind of president he can be.  Instead you have already made up your mind 6 hours after the election.

No, we were f*cked, for eight years, and nobody had the courtesy to ask if we wanted a reach-around either.. Now I expect things will be better than the were in the past 8 years. It has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat. Color doesn't count either...black, white, brown, yellow, red, green, clear...it means fuckall. It's the idea of the old guard losing power...McCain's generation is leaving office.  Obama is almost 2 decades older than I am, but it gets me excited to see that my generation is getting closer to power. A generation who doesn't give a flying frogass about race, a generation that realizes the old ways of doing things have done nothing but bring hardship to people... a generation who feels that just being "Democrat" or "Republican" (and only voting for people that belong to one of those parties  just because they belong to that party and not based on individual merit) is  ludicrously stupid.

I do have one thing to say though. I hope I don't piss anybody off, but...I'm tired of the media focusing on Obama being the "first black president", when in actuality he is the first president of mixed race, which to me is a bigger story, in that I personally feel that in my daughter's lifetime, people like Obama (and my wife and myself and our family) will be the norm. Now that's progress. I remember as a young boy feeling like I didn't have a race to call my own (as silly and unimportant as that sounds now at 30)...my dad was Mexican and French, and mom was Dutch & black. I hated how I used to always get asked by other kids in school why I "dyed my hair", because they didn't see how someone with the last name of Castillo could have reddish brown hair. Whatthefuckever.

But yeah, thinking about this made me realize just how much things have changed in my own lifetime. That was something about Obama's speech last night that really choked me up, when he was talking about what that 106 year old woman has seen over her lifetime, and the changes that his own daughters will see over theirs.  As I type this, I'm looking over at Jaymie riding her Fisher Price car all over my living room, and imagining how things will be when she's old. That's a headfucker.

Another victory for me yesterday...

I mean, why the hell not? Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and we need to be spending money on more important things than throwing people in jail for smoking weed in the privacy in their own home. Of course, I feel differently  about blazing in public, which if you are going to drive is stupid and irresponsible, just like drunk driving.

Now, if only the government would stay the hell out of the bedroom. Yeah, as a straight male the gay marriage ban in California means nothing to me  on a personal level, but on a human level it pisses me the f*** off. I know a gay couple that honestly is a more legit couple than several marriages in my own damn family, but that's a story for another day.

To make a long story short, last night was the first time I had this kind of national pride since the time immediately following 9/11.

good comment, Billy. I totally agree.

no i haven't....just how i feel...title didn't say presidential election only...what was elected to the senate dooms us....spread the wealth my ass..entitlements are what is wrong with the u.s. now, just gonna get worse.....imho

Well, something has to change. As it is right now, the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. If it were up to me, nobody would be poor, but I know that is never going to happen.  As it is, we need to take care of our poor and our middle class too.

Have you ever been homeless? Or on the verge of being so? Do you know what it is like to have to not know where your next meal is going to come from, or how in the hell you are going to keep your electricity on? I've been there. It's not fun. Thank GOD I managed to work my way out of it...I'm still struggling, but at least can keep the bills paid and ensure that my daughter is happy, healthy, and taken care of. That, frankly, is enough for me. What is funny to me is that now that I have a job that is within walking distance, NOW gas wants to go down in price. F*cking figures. :lol

 Entitlements, as you put it, aren't what's wrong with the US...it's that for years only the top class of people have mattered, no matter which party was in office. Nobody gives a merda about anybody but themselves. It's selfishness that is what is wrong with this country.

I almost typed about 50 replies and can't even finish one. I'm afraid I'll just get too involved and somebody will be offended and (as is my tradition) I'll be called an asshole and threatened with banishment. So instead I'll just say, for those of you who are so worried that Obama is a secret muslim-terrorist-socialist-communist-blackpanther-whateverthehellyouthinkheis, don't worry. It won't matter. Nothing changes. And for those who are so psyched and think the world will get so demonstrably better, worry. It won't matter. Nothing changes.

See, that's where I think you're wrong. Things do change. Whether you like him or not, just the fact alone that he was elected shows progress since my father was my age (1962).

I was born in 1978. For those of you were were around in that time period, what was it like then? Has the world dramatically changed since then? Could any of you conceive on, I dunno, the internet? Hell, SMiLE was released since then (and that fact that it was released and Chinese Democracy still hasn't makes me :lol  ) How many medical advances have come out since then?
Or sh*t just think about the year any of you were born. What has changed since then?

Come to think of it, this can be an interesting discussion in and of itself...

I wrote in Stan Love for Oregon Secretary of State! I mean, he's gotta be better than either of those corporate controlled parties we supposedly get to 'choose' from, right? I Hope we can all break through the fake left/right paradigm and see the reality; our governments have been co-opted long ago by corporate bankers, a fact that even Roosevelt was nice enough to point out. We are no less f***ed than before. Please keep your eyes open and ignore the propaganda machine (corporate controlled media). Best of luck to all of us!

Of course there are technological changes. And societal changes. But the basic struggle between two barely different parties makes all of those societal changes take FOREVER. There is no perfect action and not much fast action. Getting excited for some savior president is a sure way to be let down. I like Obama more than McCain. I like the Democratic party more than the Republican. But it's not like either (or any other) is worth getting your hopes up for. What are we talking about, universal healthcare? Seems to me that was the #1 priority of Clinton in 1992. It went so well that the Republicans had a great midterm in 1994 and caused a half-decade of stalemates and partisan bickering, resulting in ludicrous impeachment hearings over a blowjob. I suspect things won't go as well as hoped, as fast as hoped, and the Republicans will gain a lot of seats in 2010. They'll further slow any Obama plans. And by then, ambitious congresspeople (and Obama) won't want to tackle any tough issues because they'll start gearing up for 2012.

Oh, brother.

There will always be problems--no system will ever change that. And Americans will continue to be hysterical about that--it's culturally ingrained. But I have to disagree with you to some extent. I have only to look at the past eight years for evidence. I really don't think we would be bogged down in the mire in Iraq if Al Gore had taken office; and I think that even if the system itself doesn't change changing the people could make some major differences.

Here's what I expect/hope to change:

1. Different more diplomatic face that America shows to the world--the last eight years I have watched America's "soft power" and image literally erode before my eyes in the wake of disasters like the Iraq War, Rumsfeld/Cheney insulting "Old" Europe, Abu Ghraib, the unbelievably arrogant foda-you gesture that was the appointment of John Bolton as US ambassador to the UN, torture-as-policy, NO WMA and some pretty strong evidence that there never had been any evidence for them, trade treaties broken, the apparently almost deliberate destruction of the old Clintonian "Road Map to Peace" in the Middle East...and on and on and on.

2. Qualified political appointees who uphold the Constitution and the law rather than Oral Roberts Univesity hacks trying to stab the other political party in the back; less nepotism; less obstruction of justice and more transparancy in the upper echelons.

3. Greater cooperation from other NATO powers in Afghanistan, connected with first note.

What I hope for but ain't holding my breath:

a better health care system that doesn't cause misery among the poor and doesn't drive businesses and corporations into the ground with the expense(see auto industry, woes of)

A renewed optimism in the American people as a whole as a result of Obama's obvious star-power; less focus on constant fear of terrorists and so on.

More affordable tertiary education--the beginnings of a policy that will bring American high schools in line with the rest of the developed world.

Thatll do for starters.

We'll start to find out in a month. I'm hopeful, too ... just less optimistic.

I'm not a US citizen, but like all Brits I'm affected by what happens 'cross the pond. The list of casualties from Iraq and Afghanistan is piling up, the effects of war ripple around like a sewer draining into a river - across the economy, government, the ex-servicemen who you see sleeping on the streets. As the Afghan war is unwinnable, I want it to end... and our troops to come home. Neither candidate promised this, but I guess its possible that the US can come up with a face-saving formula and get the hell out of there.

In fact, Obama has promised to increase our commitment in Afghanistan. And to be honest, his exit strategy from Iraq isn't all that different than McCain's: the bigger differences were terminology. It will be a controlled pull-out from Iraq and a build-up in Afghanistan, both militarily and with civil leadership in an attempt to boost their economy away from poppies (opium), which is their biggest cash crop. But that's no easy war, either, considering our "ally" Pakistan has plenty of official and unofficial support going to our Taliban enemies, and we're forbidden from engaging in military operations in Pakistan territory. And Afghanistan itself isn't exactly helping, with the current government rife with cronyism. Like it or not, the U.S. is going to have to realize that the Middle East isn't some monolithic place where the brown people are enemies: their politics are every bit as complex as ours, if not more so. Taliban isn't the same as Northern "Alliance" fighters, which isn't isn't the same as Al Quaeda, which isn't the same as Sunni insurgents, which isn't the same as Shiite extremists, and so on. (And there are multiple groups of each of those, anyway.) We go in and act as if bombs on some city and a new, U.S.-backed government solves everything. I don't like the idea of leaving with a vacuum there to be filled by whatever strongman-led group can fill it, but neither do I like the idea of us continuing to stick our noses where they don't belong without any perceivable progress toward a probably unattainable goal.

Well, George Bush and the Iraqi government have legally locked the USA there till 2011. Obama's plan has already been set in stone, but interestingly, he called it a month or two before the plan was announced earlier this year(but it wasn't agreed until last week, I think.) McCaine, I think, was saying we would be there for 20 years, or at least til 2016. And in fact, he pretty much seemed to refuse to outline any plan--other than "We're going to win." Now, of course, his point was that such a plan was information too sensitive to be broadcast to our enemies.

As far as Afghanistan goes, I actually think that Obama will use his popularity to convince more NATO allies to join in the real stuff.

I don't know how I feel about Afghanistan, to be honest. I am personally categorically against all wars--I would have been against the US' involvement in WWII, at the time(in retrospect, I guess I would have changed my mind.) As far as Afghanistan goes, it's clear it's getting worse--and it's never going to be that great, no matter what. I'm torn and wondering if I should give a crap one way or the other. One thing is for sure in my mind: Afghanistan is a NATO operation, and there are only four countries that have taken the brunt of it--the UK, The Netherlands, Canada and the USA. If anything, Afghanistan is showing major cracks in NATO(that probably have always been there).

I think that there are elements in the US government that do understand the complexity of political situations in the Middle East--there are  plenty of foreign policy experts--unfortunately they were more or less silenced by GWB, Cheney and Rumsfeld, who seemed to have a naive idealistic view, one that seems uniquely American, especially in retrospect.

Definitely, I think that the USA might have a chance for a new kind of dialogue with Iran, and that could indeed be a big plus.

You're mistaken about Iraq. While the Bush administration and the president of Iraq came to an agreement to keep troops there till 2011, the Iraqi parliament has to vote on it, and there is significant opposition (not to mention a disagreement as to whether a simple or super-majority is required to make the agreement official). Al-Sadr and his contingent actually insist that the treaty is illegal as long as we continue to occupy, and he's still a major political as well as religious and military force there. The McCain talk of how long we'd be there was spun by Dems, just as the Obama "get out" talk was spun by Republicans. The fact is, both wanted to strengthen the Iraqi government as much as possible and remove combat troops as quickly as possible. The primary disagreement was over whether to impose deadlines, which (as the first few sentences here hint at) may be a moot point: we're not there in an official capacity as an occupying or attacking force anymore, we're there at the pleasure of the purportedly sovereign government of Iraq. If they say we have to leave, our choices are to be there illegally as an occupier or leave. That would have been true whether under McCain or Obama.

Aha, thanks for the correction.

No problem: easy mistake. You hear an agreement has been reached, you assume it is going to be implemented! I only got the bulk of the story regarding the Iraqi end of it on national public radio yesterday.

Luther, you said that societal changes take forever, yet right now, as I write this, massive upheavals in our economies are occuring. The very banks that manufactured the current credit crisis are busy stealing 3.5 trillion dollars, and probably closer to 10 trillion with absolutely no oversight. They take our money and buy up healthy banks to, supposedly, loan us back that very money which we gave them, with interest! Hah, what a scam. We are moving towards a depression very quickly. Society is about to change in a big way, and it doesn't look good for those of us near the bottom. If you don't currently own a bank or a large energy conglomerate you can expect extreme change very soon. But I doubt it's the change many of you were hoping for. Like I said in an earlier post, keep your eyes open, and please ignore all of the corporate media's lies. Remember who owns them.  Watch the film Network to remind yourself of this self-evident conflict of interest. and once again, best of luck to ALL of us!

It's really no change: the rich remain in charge, and continue to try to maintain or increase their power. That's not a change in the slightest. The only changes are the sways back and forth as to when, how and how much they occasionally crumble under their mistakes. I know being middle or lower class during a depression feels like a change, and to any individual or family, it is. But in the grand scheme, poor is poor and powerless. Rich is rich and powerful. And rarely the twain shall meet...

Well, I agree with you, though I dont have that much of a problem with it--I am no Communist. But how the current crisis is dealt with to some extent does depend on the government.

Now, the cynic in me says that Obama is playing for the same team as the Republicans, anyway, but I don't really believe it--

His plans seem good to me and I think will help Americans now and in the future. I certainly don't think the Republicans would handle it the same way(rebuilding the infrastructure, investing into energy technologies...)

I'm no communist, either, but I think that's irrelevant. All political systems ideally try to do the most good possible for the most people, but have different ideas on how to get there. I don't think small-D and -R democrats and republicans, or capitalists (to throw an economic theory into the political world) believe that it's good for the rich to remain the sole power, either. It just works out that way--both in communist and democratic nations--because the powerful tend not to be very interested in giving away their power. Human nature corrupts any system of government. As for Obama being on the same team as the Republican party, I'd say in a way he is. He isn't nearly the far-left liberal the Republican party painted him during the campaign, and his appointments so far prove that. But I do think his differences from the past administration are positive. Like I said, I'm hopeful, just not optimistic. I WANT some of the things he's talked about to happen; I just don't believe they necessarily will.

Indeed! The change I refer to is the standard of living which we, or at least I, have become accustomed to. I've seen it slowly lower in the 20 years I've been working, but this is the bottom falling out.As far as I can tell his plans are to create more war and some strange snitch culture/green brigade larger, he says, than the US armed forces. Yikes! Also, please see who he's picked for his cabinet positions. Another huge Yikes! Don't get me wrong, the Republicans are no better. The point is that both of these 'choices' are obviously bought and controlled by interests which I (and likely, you) don't agree with and who's aims are far different than whatever election-year speeches might lead one to believe.

Well, Luther, I can't argue with you there; he is going to have a tough time.

What do you mean here?

Please see this extremely short Obama video.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s)

Dont recall having seen that before. I can't imagine that was anything very well thought through or something in the works. I'd want to know a lot more about what he means by it, but it's something I'd be wholly against, most likely. If there is one trait I share with Republicans, it's the desire to be left alone by my government.

Well you might want to read up on Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. He's sorta into compulsory service and all that. Wrote a book about it even. They definitely do not plan to leave us alone.

I can understand compulsory service (if not necessarily be thrilled by it). But that is different than some sort of civilian security force.

Like I said, just look into it. It seems kinda scary. I'd rather you were right but it looks bad...

There better not be compulsory service enacted anytime soon, or ever for that matter. The anti-war movement would probably swell in numbers if another draft were to ever happen.

I wasn't referring to military service (nor was Obama, from what I've gathered). Many countries have some form of compulsory service, be it military or community. I don't know if that is such a terrible idea (although again, I'm not thrilled personally by it). But as to your comment, of course anti-war movements would swell if a draft happened. That's the bulk of the reason there are anti-war movements in the first place. The past six or so years have been nothing compared to draft-era protests. For each of the "leave those far-off civilians alone," protesters, I'd guess there are a few hundred more "don't send me to die in your war." And that is a sentiment to which I can entirely relate.

I dont think it is a bad idea either, necessarily, unless there is a war of course. It doesnt have to be military, it could be hospital work or something--it is not that unusual a concept; I would love for it to be there if it meant cheaper university without joining the military.

I believe, in that clip, he said he wanted a civilian SECURITY FORCE. That doesn't sound like changing bed pans or feeding the poor. Sounds more like the stasi from east germany. But I'm sure he 'didn't really mean that'. Ha!