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Non Smiley Smile Stuff => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: TdHabib on September 26, 2008, 07:39:37 PM



Title: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: TdHabib on September 26, 2008, 07:39:37 PM
Okay so I've gotten into one of those real Bob Dylan fixes lately---everybody knows the kind of thing I'm talking about---that happens every now and then...and I've come to a definitive conclusion: I love Highway 61 Revisited and that LP was never a particular favorite of mine. In particular, "Desolation Row," which I've been listening to nonstop, has really appealed to me...

So much so that I now have a dillemma, Blonde on Blonde was, is and will remain my very favorite Dylan LP of all time. But my second choice has been, since about 1989, Blood on the Tracks, but now that I'm listening so much to Highway 61, it's almost close to taking second place. Whether that will happen or not remains to be seen, but I'd like to ask everyone the question you've been so eagerly awaiting:

Do you prefer Blood on the Tracks or Highway 61 as a Dylan masterpiece? I know that both are terrific, but which is your personal favorite?

I know we have some real Dylan-heads here (the good Sherriff for one) and I'd love to get a wide-range opinion.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on September 26, 2008, 07:46:08 PM
I prefer Highway 61, which isn't really among my very favorites. For me, there's Blonde On Blonde and Bringing It All Back Home, then the past two albums and the two you mentioned all in some kind of steel cage match for supremacy. But honestly, I'm trending the other way: Blood on the Tracks is recently growing on me. I think it comes down to the fact that Dylan has SO MANY thoughts, perspectives over the years. Everyone flows in and out of them over time. I can relate to Dylan X at some point, Dylan Y at another. It isn't an A>B>C situation so much as a "I used to like A, now I'm into B," etc.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on September 26, 2008, 08:29:10 PM
I think it comes down to the fact that Dylan has SO MANY thoughts, perspectives over the years. Everyone flows in and out of them over time. I can relate to Dylan X at some point, Dylan Y at another. It isn't an A>B>C situation so much as a "I used to like A, now I'm into B," etc.

Yes, and that's what makes it such a difficult question to answer. Damn, TdHabib, this is a tough one. OK, on 9/26/08, I'll say:

1. Highway 61 Revisited
2. Blonde On Blonde
3. Blood On The Tracks

Highway 61 Revisited has no weak spots; it's consistently great. That's not to say Blonde On Blonde has any filler; it doesn't. It is just as consistent, but does it have the "highs" of Highway 61 Revisited? I don't know, they're so close. Again, it depends on what mood you're in, what you're looking for. Highway 61 Revisited is more straight-forward rock and roll, if you're looking for that. Dylan seems extremely focused, still maybe angry? Blonde On Blonde, while it too rocks, is a little more "out there", a little more druggy. And there's more "relationship" songs on Blonde On Blonde. Was there the slightest sign of Dylan mellowing? 

Blood On The Tracks has a couple cuts ("You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome", "Meet Me In The Morning", and "Buckets Of Rain") that are just a notch below. While I love "Lily, Rosemary And The Jack Of Hearts", it seems slightly out of place, suited more for Nashville Skyline or Pat Garrett And Billy The Kid. But, hey, Blood On The Tracks is a stone cold classic!

Did I dodge your question enough, TdHabib?   


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: CosmicDancer on September 26, 2008, 09:25:32 PM
Blood on the Tracks is my favorite Dylan album of them all.  It is the home of my favorite Dylan tune "Idiot Wind".  That song never fails to blow my away.  The anger that comes through in Dylan's voice on that song is so captivating.  Every track on the record is an absolute killer.  Highway 61 is probably right behind it at #2.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on September 26, 2008, 10:06:07 PM
I pretty much agree with Luther.

But I think that 61 was the more significant album culturally, while BOTT is more consistently listenable(meaning I'm in the mood for it more often.) But the fact I'm in the mood for it more often is probably more indicative of my age and where I'm at as a person than anything else.

Blonde on Blonde is one of his most important records, but is not my personal favorite anymore(though it was at one point.)


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: TdHabib on September 26, 2008, 10:53:27 PM
I think it comes down to the fact that Dylan has SO MANY thoughts, perspectives over the years. Everyone flows in and out of them over time. I can relate to Dylan X at some point, Dylan Y at another. It isn't an A>B>C situation so much as a "I used to like A, now I'm into B," etc.

Yes, and that's what makes it such a difficult question to answer. Damn, TdHabib, this is a tough one. OK, on 9/26/08, I'll say:

1. Highway 61 Revisited
2. Blonde On Blonde
3. Blood On The Tracks

Highway 61 Revisited has no weak spots; it's consistently great. That's not to say Blonde On Blonde has any filler; it doesn't. It is just as consistent, but does it have the "highs" of Highway 61 Revisited? I don't know, they're so close. Again, it depends on what mood you're in, what you're looking for. Highway 61 Revisited is more straight-forward rock and roll, if you're looking for that. Dylan seems extremely focused, still maybe angry? Blonde On Blonde, while it too rocks, is a little more "out there", a little more druggy. And there's more "relationship" songs on Blonde On Blonde. Was there the slightest sign of Dylan mellowing? 

Blood On The Tracks has a couple cuts ("You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome", "Meet Me In The Morning", and "Buckets Of Rain") that are just a notch below. While I love "Lily, Rosemary And The Jack Of Hearts", it seems slightly out of place, suited more for Nashville Skyline or Pat Garrett And Billy The Kid. But, hey, Blood On The Tracks is a stone cold classic!

Did I dodge your question enough, TdHabib?   
Nah, it's alright, you answered the best you could...

If I could dig a little deeper...

The thing about Blood on the Tracks that always bugged me was that Dylan could've kept the original take of "If You See Her, Say Hello", and by all means should have, but replaced with that inferior version. I don't mind the three tunes you mentioned, perversely I think they fit in with the mood  :P I think the thing is whenever I get into my Blood on the Tracks mood, there's no stopping me...

But I was always irked about the second version of "If You See Her, Say Hello" the first version (acoustic) is pure emotion, one of Dylan's best vocals, and then the second version comes out officially and it's that watered down, fleshed out take...

As for Highway 61, the tune that hasn't clicked for me yet it "From a Buick 6." But I just listened to "Desolation Row" again, what a great song...


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on September 27, 2008, 07:29:22 AM
But I think that 61 was the more significant album culturally, while BOTT is more consistently listenable(meaning I'm in the mood for it more often.) But the fact I'm in the mood for it more often is probably more indicative of my age and where I'm at as a person than anything else.
That's an interesting aspect of music for me, and not just of Dylan's (although his age compared to mine (I'm 32 upon this writing), his longevity and his relatively consistent quality in different eras make him a prime case study). Because does the cultural importance of music, if the album doesn't hit that later listener the way a more personally enjoyable album might, matter so much? Sure, it does to people who were there. And of course there is the fact that if something changes culture, it matters in that regard because whatever comes after it is different than it would have been otherwise. But if I'm 15 now and can't personally relate to some album that's three times my age, then (for me) that's just not a good album. Sorry for the little off topic ravings. But it is important to me how often we see people say "oh, of course it's a great album and a classic, but I don't like it." It's a funny thing to say.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on September 27, 2008, 09:28:32 AM
Does it matter? I think it does in some cases but not in others. IN Dylan it does, because his music is sort of timeless--somebody discovering his sixties stuff today I think would react just like I did in 1990 or so when I first heard it. Only a few of his protests songs, rooted as they are in the issues of the time(Civil Rights, especially) are dated.

On the other hand, an album like Surfin' Safari, which probably was culturally significant for it's time is not all that hot nowadays--the whole thing is dated, even the stuff that has aged well. With a few exceptions, SS has an early sixties charm, but that's about it(other than a few moments of brilliance.)



Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on September 27, 2008, 10:07:58 AM
Well nothing REALLY matters. Anyone can see. Nothing really matters...to meeeeeeeeeee.  :lol   Yeah, just a pointless but fun-for-me sort of sidetrack.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on September 27, 2008, 12:24:42 PM
Well, another thing is that there is a difference between a fifteen year old who doesn't like an album and a 32 year old who doesn't really listen to an album anymore. The thirty-two year old still likes the album(more often than not) but has just moved on. I can still listen to those old Dylan records, but his seventies stuff gets to me more now--though it doesn't blow me away like I was blown away in my twenties by the sixties stuff. I suppose when I'm seventy Modern Times will be the greatest album ever and BOTT will seem like overwrought tripe?
I'm just thinking aloud, I guess.

Also...one can appreciate an album on more levels than the visceral--and "cultural significance" can somewhat enhance a record.

On the other hand that "cultural significance" doesn't mean as much to me anymore is the reason why I have gravitated towards such an isolated(apparently) artist as Brian Wilson, who IMO does not have his finger on the pulse of culture at all...but makes good music.

Should it matter is a better question than "does it matter," maybe.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: SG7 on September 27, 2008, 01:11:13 PM
Highway 61. Beautiful little album :)


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on September 27, 2008, 02:13:46 PM
Should it matter is a better question than "does it matter," maybe.
I think I'd argue the exact opposite, as long as the latter includes "to me." Should it matter is bullshit. Does it matter to me is the only real question that ought to any individual.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on September 27, 2008, 09:07:58 PM
The original question is still intriguing me. I wonder which of the three above mentioned albums DYLAN would choose?


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on September 28, 2008, 01:08:34 AM
Should it matter is a better question than "does it matter," maybe.
I think I'd argue the exact opposite, as long as the latter includes "to me." Should it matter is bull crap. Does it matter to me is the only real question that ought to any individual.
Hmmm...I see  what you are saying, but I am not only talking about individual taste, but I realize that you are talking about that and have been.

But I am not so sure that "collective taste" does not exist, though obviously it's as subject to change and fluctuation as my own individual taste. For me the question regarding "collective taste", meaning a sort of objective taste is "should it matter?" Not does itmatter--because it clearly does matter.

Anyway, we are far, far, far into territory on which I am at best more-inarticulate-than-usual.

SJS--I wonder WHAT Dylan WOULD say? I once read an interview with him in which he said he'd written over a thousand songs and the only one he didn't like was "Ballad in Plain D." My guess is he's proud of all of them--but doesn't really listen to any of them.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on September 28, 2008, 07:14:26 AM
The original question is still intriguing me. I wonder which of the three above mentioned albums DYLAN would choose?
I don't think he'd tell us. Ask and he'd probably say that what he really likes is The Chirpin' Crickets, and that his records don't really matter one way or the other. My guess of his opinion, for no good reason, is Blonde on Blonde.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Aegir on September 28, 2008, 06:34:25 PM
Blonde on Blonde and Highway 61 are my least favorite Dylan albums.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on September 28, 2008, 07:16:09 PM
Blonde on Blonde and Highway 61 are my least favorite Dylan albums.

If those are your least favorites, I'm curious to know what are your favorites....


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Aegir on September 30, 2008, 12:27:59 AM
The first five albums, Nashville Skyline, and World Gone Wrong. If I had to choose one Dylan album, I'd choose Bringin' it All Back Home or Bootleg Series volume 6.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on September 30, 2008, 02:30:02 AM
Bringin' it all back home for me too!! Damn, unlike Highway 61 and Blonde on Blonde(for me), for some reason that one never gets old.

I also think his late sixties/early seventies stuff is pretty underrated. I Shall Be Released from his Greatest hits vol II is probably my favorite song--maybe ever.

I just sort of like his lyrics a little more when they are not trying so hard to be surreal and poetic, I find the lyrics of, say, Ballad of a Thin Man to be just a little forced. I realize it was all groundbreaking and new, but where's the soul? The soul is in the music of Ballad of a Thin Man more than the lyrics.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Aegir on September 30, 2008, 09:29:15 AM
Ballad of a Thin Man is why I used to hate Bob Dylan. I thought all his songs sounded like that.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: CosmicDancer on September 30, 2008, 02:06:52 PM
Ballad of a Thin Man is why I used to hate Bob Dylan. I thought all his songs sounded like that.

Interesting.  It is one of my favorite Dylan songs.  Different strokes for different folks!


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on September 30, 2008, 05:16:29 PM
Oh yeah, Bringing It All Back Home, incredible. How's that for a run - Bringing It All Back Home to Highway 61 Revisited to Blonde On Blonde. Do you think Dylan was on a roll....


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on September 30, 2008, 05:36:38 PM
I believe it is a three-album run matched only by Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on September 30, 2008, 05:57:11 PM
I believe it is a three-album run matched only by Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper.

I started to think of some other three to rival it, but.....no, why even try. It is interesting how the Big 3 - The Beach Boys, The Beatles, and Bob Dylan all (arguably) peaked in 1965-66, at almost the exact same time! With all due respect to The Beatles' later stuff, of course....


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Alex on October 01, 2008, 11:01:41 AM
I believe it is a three-album run matched only by Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper.

What about Summer Days, Pet Sounds, SMiLE (even though it was in pieces for almost 40 years)?

Between the Buttons, Flowers, Their Satanic Majesties Request?

Headquarters, The Birds The Bees and The Monkees, Head Soundtrack?

Surrealistic Pillow, After Bathing At Baxter's, Volunteers?

Still Cruisin', Summer in Paradise, Stars and Stripes? (just kidding on that one :))


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: Roger Ryan on October 01, 2008, 01:39:53 PM
FACE TO FACE
SOMETHING ELSE
VILLAGE GREEN PRESERVATION SOCIETY

...are another remarkable set of three.

Flash-forward ten years and...

MY AIM IS TRUE
THIS YEAR'S MODEL
ARMED FORCES

...are pretty incredible.

But Dylan's mid-60s output is amazing. There's a lot of diversity on those three releases issued within a year-and-a-half of each other, even with them being his three "rock" albums!


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on October 01, 2008, 02:11:09 PM
Obviously it's all subjective (we did a thread of this on Alan's rocking in the free world board, btw.), but I don't agree that any named here are nearly as good as those two sets of three I mentioned. (Some of them I don't actually like at all.) There are other sets than those mentioned that I like a lot, too, but I stand behind my first statement.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on October 01, 2008, 08:41:54 PM
I would Say...Beach Boys=Today to Sunflower

Beatles:First three albums;  Rubber Soul to SGT Pepper; White Album to Abbey Road

Prince: 1999-Purple Rain-Around the World in a Day-Parade-Sign o' the Times

Elvis Costello--First five albums!

Hell, I would even say Led Zeppelin's first four albums+Physical Graffiti. All Great.

The Cure has a string of great albums, depending on your tastes--I guess I think you can't beat Head on the Door-kissme kiss me kissme-disintegration.

REM's first five.

It is all subjective of course...but I stand by these lists.



Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: the captain on October 01, 2008, 08:47:50 PM
Those aren't very good as streaks of three... (Don't worry, counting is hard for me, too. And that sentence isn't even sarcasm.)


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on October 01, 2008, 08:49:35 PM
Well, I was just doing "streaks" of great albums.


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: roll plymouth rock on October 02, 2008, 09:20:06 AM
How about that Tale Tale Signs?? (Streaming on npr at the moment)

He's still got that magic touch, I've been into all the Dylan releases since World Gone Wrong with a vengeance. I really like his new tunes in addition to the countless class albums from earlier times


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: lance on October 02, 2008, 11:45:25 PM
Yeah, he's really come back in a big way. Modern Times is great....


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: mikee on October 10, 2008, 12:51:52 AM
Bob Dylan album trios:

1. The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan
    The Times They Are A-Changin'
     Another Side Of Bob Dylan

2. Bringing It All Back Home
    Highway 61 Revisited
    Blonde On Blonde

3. Planet Waves
    Before The Flood
    The Basement Tapes

4.  Desire
     Hard Rain
     The Bootleg Series Vol. 5:Bob Dylan Live 1975,
     The Rolling Thunder Revue

5. Slow Train Coming
    Saved
    Shot Of Love

6. Time Out Of Mind
     Love And Theft
     Modern Times


Title: Re: Dylan Question-opinion for all Zimmerman-heads...
Post by: donald on October 10, 2008, 11:03:23 AM
Funny this thread should come up.  I picked up a copy of No Direction Home (Scorcese film) last week and have fallen right into a serious Dylan Bag.

My first real appreciation of Dylan came from repeated listenings to Highway 61 not too long after its release.  I had been too young to really "get" his first albums and they weren't played on the top 40 anyway.

But I'll tell you, I was captivated by that album, and all these years later having listened to and purchased almost everything the man released, Highway 61 remains my favorite.     Funny thing, but I never liked Blonde on Blonde nearly as much.  Bringin It All Back Home is a close second to H61 in my book.

As a kid, my imagination ran wild listening to that voice singing those lyrics.  So challenging, so intriguing, abstract, stimulating, ....compared to what I was hearing on the top 40 on my transistor radio.

As a "mature"  adult, finally growing into the notion that Dylan is just a guy, and not some weird mythical creature from
beatnikville New York, I still love the music and appreciate it from a different perspective.

When I saw Bob on that commercial with Adriana Lima a couple of years ago, I just had to laugh.   He is, after all , a guy just like me.  Birds of a feather.   ;D

And now he's thinkin bout Alicia Keys.....hmmmmmm