The Smiley Smile Message Board

In the 'Help Me Rhonda' sessions, Murry tells Brian, "Success never comes from a phony singing for money." And Brian says, "Why don't you go tell Johnny Rivers that?" Any ideas what that was all about? Brian has always seemed so non-aggressive, rarely having anything bad to say about anyone, so I'm curious what Rivers had done that caused Brian to even give him a thought? Apparently it wasn't bad enough to keep the BBs from recording Mountain of Love on the Party LP...or to keep Bri from contributing background vocals to Rivers' 1975 hit remake of 'Rhonda.' And I have this nagging feeling that Brian made another Johnny Rivers remark somewhere, but I can't recall it right now.
Thoughts?

Hmm. It's not often Brian says negative things about other artists.
Care to embellish this thread compiling some negative Brian statements?
I remember in some Rolling Stone article years back he talked about his favorite albums and he mentioned Dark Side of the Moon but now he's scared of it because some of the low notes or something...
I'd love to find the exact quote...

I think given the context- it was a recording session and not a public interview or anything on the public record- it wasn't as big of a dig at Johnny Rivers as it seems on the face of it. I think the point is by the mid-60's there was a lot of stock placed on artists writing their own material. Johnny Rivers in many ways was an "entertainer" in the traditional, almost cabaret sense rather than an "artist." Johnny Rivers cranked out LPs and gigs that were mostly cover versions of hits of the day sprinkled with a song or two that might have been written for him, but not by him and thusly wasn't considered to have a lot of artistic integrity. I wasn't around back then, but I'd imagine that in the time period Johnny Rivers was considered in the public along the same lines that say, a Britney Spears would be today- not stricly speaking- but someone who cranks out "product" that is pleasant enough for non-musicophiles on a regular basis rather than releasing musical artistic statements. Johnny Rivers certainly followed the trends of the day to stay employed rather than was at the vanguard of the changing musical landscape of the time period.

But IMHO the context of Brain's remark was a frustrated retort to Murry, who at the moment was humiliating him in front of peers, colleages and record company managers- not a response in an interview or a statement intended for public consumption.     

Could it be that Murry had made a previous comment about Mr. Rivers and Brian told his dad to tell that to Johnny's face? Johnny Rivers was an infuential performer and an innovative publisher and label head; plus, he had a very nice office on The Sunset Strip. He was doing what Phil Spector, Bobby Darin, Terry Melcher and Brian were doing.

Well I've read and heard Brian on several occasions over the last 8 years bad-mouth The Beach Boys. Basically always saying that the singers he has now are better than The Beach Boys ever where. So yes, he has bad-mouthed other artists.

Yeah, but The Beach Boys is one thing.
He always talks about how great the BB's voices are (Mike's in particular) but then he makes fun of it like in that video where he has Al pinch his nose. Classic Brian.

So anyone else?
Isn't there a story of BW signing an autograph and writing "Thanks for the great..." and crossing out "great" and writing in "good songs."
Who was that?

Apparently it was one of the Eagles according to someone in this thread: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,3410.0.html

There are some great Brian stories in that thread by the way!! :-D

Whoever it was, that has always been one of my favorite Brian stories!

While we're on the subject of Johnny Rivers...Brian's voice isn't as great on this as I was led to believe. Of course, he's barely audible, but you can definitely hear a huge decline in his falsetto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPToxd7h6hg

Isn't that from 1975? So why would you think Brian's falsetto was any good?

Because the myth has it that Brian's voice was still intact, and it declined rapidly from here until 15 Big Ones, which is actually bullshit.

As myths are wont to be. Never believe a myth, especially about BW as spoken by BW fans. He could fly if he wanted to!

I wonder who the other backups are. Brian's buried way in the mix, but vocally he sounds whiny as hell and honestly doesn't sound anything like Brian . If he did the mid-range back ups too, then he already sounds like his 15 BO self minus the heavy rasp.

edit

Sure enough, Brian's doing both the high and mid range "Help Me Rhonda" part during the chorus.

I once read something Brian said about Madonna. It surprised me because I'd only ever heard of him saying positive things about people (even the ones that don't deserve it).
It's from gigwise.com

Brian Wilson has said that Madonna owes her high level of success to the fact she has openly took her clothes off in her early days. 

The ex-Beach Boys star, who is enjoying a renaissance this year, believes she may not have become the global superstar she is if she had kept her clothes on.

As contact music reports, he said: "Madonna. I'm not sure why (she's been so successful).

"Maybe it has something to do with the fact that she was always naked."

I must say I have agree with him :lol

When Brian's right, he's right!

He said something similar about Britney Spears.

"That's not even music! Plus her eyes are too far apart".

Because her eyes are too far apart. Laugh my rear end off. I love you Brian.

I always thought the 1975 Help Me Rhonda was kind of like his vocal on In The Still Of The Night. He hits the notes ok but you can hear a differrence from even a year or so earlier. It's right in the middle of the swift decline to me.

Yep.

But even on "California Saga Pt. 3", and the tag to "Surf's Up", though Brian's voice isn't gruff, Brian still doesn't really sound like he used to...I actually used to think those parts were sung by Al.

Back to Johnny Rivers:

Memory is a little vague on this...

Didn't I read one article which included a discussion regarding the possibilities of a promontional video for 'Barnyard'?

I seem to remember that Brian suggested that they could have chickens in tennis shoes 'bopping around' some luxurious pad... "It could be Johnny River's pad", he suggests...

[Aside: Johnny Rivers' name also crops up on the 1966 Jan & Dean Meet Batman Lp on the track 'Flight Of The Batmobile', with Dean posing the question 'Where's Johnny Rivers?' right at the end of the track.]

You're thinking of Paul Robbins.

So sad that I know that from memory.

The beginning of California (the part that Brian sings) is sped up.

Really? That's the first I've heard of that.

I read it here...

I used to think Brian was referring to Johnny's southern schtick when he was actually a New York Italian.   Sure, Johnny lived in the southeast for a few years and picked up a few licks and some of the idiom, but he wasn't the character singing most of those songs.

By the way.  I've often noted the line from Memphis ;  "Marie is only six years old, information please, try to put me through to her in Memphis Tennessee"......is that a satire on mountain child brides or iis he referring to his daughter seperated by divorce?

mountain child brides? 6 years old? are you serious???
geez.

marie is his daughter. the whole song you are supposed to think he's singing about his woman, and it turns out to be his little girl. Chuck Berry writes a pretty good song.

the real question is:
is "I Want To Pick You Up" about a child or a woman?

or

is "Hey Little Tomboy" the creepiest song ever written?

I Want to Pick You Up is about a woman. "You're still a baby to me."

I disagree. First I have to ask if you ever had a daughter? That song came out just when my own daughter was old enough to start doing things on her own. A happy and yet sometimes sad time for me which the song related to at the time.  I NEVER read anything else into IWTPYU from day one. And Tomboy? It's so real life lyrical Beach Boys lifestyle work that just made common sense to me all along. Why can't these Beach Boy songs be looked upon on their own merit? Life. Without a twisted view.

I get sick of that kind of stuff too. "Child brides"? It's cleverly written. And IWTPYU, I agree with Dave. Same with all the others. Brian sometimes writes from a teenage point of view because that how he thinks he got the hits, by appealing to a teenage audience. He didn't think in the 70s - with Mike probably badgering him for old-style hits too - that anyone wanted to hear about the P.O.V. of guys in their thirties. And he's right: Bob Ezrin went through the Wall deleting references to Rogers Waters' age, citing that "people don't want to hear about old [sic] rock stars." Waters was 36.

That's all Brian ever does. Roller Skating Child doesn't mean he wants to screw a teenager. Mick Jagger wasn't born in a crossfire hurricane either; he was born in Dartford. And John Lennon? Actually a human, not a walrus; he and the Beatles didn't live in a yellow submarine either, but in big houses. It's songwriting.

Like blues giant Willie Dixon said, "Those people who said Spoonful was about heroin? They just have heroin ideas, I guess."

I don't have children, but I have a girlfriend. And I don't want this to come out the wrong way or anything, but often when I'm being cutesy with her there's that whole "baby" thing going on. "I want to pick you up, rock and back and forth and make you smile," that's the epitome of how I feel about her. I think it works both ways, though. Love is love, whether it's man-woman love or parent-child love.

Sure love can be all encompassing. But I'm sorry. Until you actually go through the experience of being a parent and bringing a child into the world from your own flesh and blood, the two can't be compared. How could you know if you never experienced it?

I'm not trying to say I know. I'm trying to say you can interpret a love song in multiple ways. John Denver had a song called For Bobbie, which was a love song. A few years later, he released For Baby (For Bobbie), which was the same song except for one lyrical change - "hand" was changed to "tiny hand". And it suddenly stopped being a song about a woman and became a song about a child.

Exactly!