The Smiley Smile Message Board

Just thinking that whilst I like TLOS a lot as an album, I would have made a few changes. Don't know if anyone would agree...?

Concept - I'd have gone with a nature/environment/seasons theme

Sequencing- I'd have started with the original Live Let Live from the Arctic Tale soundtrack, plus the ending strings from the new version... then would have put Oxygen, Morning Beat,  Good Kind of Love, a shortened/less vocalised FYBM Surfer Girl, Can't Wait too Long, Midnight, Going Home, Southern California. Mexican Girl to be an extended narrated instrumental... then would have needed 2 or 3 other songs in addition.

And, as I already know them, I would go for This Song Wants to Sleep With You and an extended Must be a Miracle, wedged in between Surfer Girl and Wait too Long.

and how would you improve Pet Sounds?  ???

Let's see... Pet Sounds could have a theme relating to Diversity in the Workplace. We could take "Guess I'm Dumb" and make two versions of it to replace "You Still Believe in Me" and "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times." We'll get rid of all of Mike's vocals (because everybody hates him, as we all know) and instead we'll have the chap from Nickelback do these parts.

Brian is truly cursed - he can come out with something as vital-sounding as That Lucky Old Sun and it's still not enough for his fans. I have to say, when Imagination came out in 1998, I never thought Brian would do SMiLe again in a million years. He would barely even discuss the subject... and he re-did it from scratch, and came out with a worthy followup.

Mastering aside, TLOS is quite an album - I love the Arctic Tale version of Live Let Live, but the album version is great, too... plus, I've got to tell you - the bonus tracks are insanely great. Three more Brian originals! I absolutely adore "Just like Me and You" and "Message Man," and the cover of "I'm into Something Good" is incredible - the poster who compared it to 15 Big Ones in the best possible way is right on the money. I never cared much for the original Hermans Hermits version, but Brian's cover is great. The only one that leaves me a bit cold is Oh Mi Amor... but it's alright. Maybe it will grow on me.

Shame you weren't there in the studio when they were sequencing and mixing - sounds like they sure could have used your advice.

I would hate to make suggestions, but I do think it would have been cool to extend "Can't Wait Too Long" and include some of the spoken word bits that were roughed into the original--that would have fit in great with the spoken interludes, plus we'd get a little extra bit of the CW2L music that was cut from TLOS...

How could it be better ? Simple - a top-to-toe remaster.

"Lucky" only could have been improved if someone had given Brian a big ol' pile of hash to smoke. And maybe Rick Rubin.

For the first time in decades, Brian didn't have to raid the outtakes archives or resort to re-recording Beach Boys stuff to get an album done... So I think it's a small stain on the album that he chose to include a Beach Boys song after all... Especially because it doesn't really add anything, the album doesn't need it. So I would've left that off...

Didn't raid the archives ?

"California Role" dates from 1985... the "mowmamayama" riff hails from 1976... "Shortenin' Bread"'s in there.

god, you're tedious

Ha ha, somebody call Loren Schwarz!!

Yeah, he left out my favorite parts of the song. I always liked the "I miss you darling, I miss you so hard". And of course the mesmerizing and hypnotic repeating of "Been way too long, can't wait too long baby".

Maybe, but I don't make dumb statements like "didn't have to raid the archives" that are patently untrue.

BTW, Scott was unaware that "Wondering..." wasn't a new song until it was pointed out to him in London last year after one of the shows. He muttered something about having a few words with Mr. Wilson.  :)

Fair  enough - apologies for my shortness  :)


Well,  I can't imagine "Mr. Wilson" needs to offer any explanation at all.  Certainly not to one of his paid staff at least.
 Maybe this co-writer stuff is going to Scott's head!

TLOS would've been cooler if there was a time machine, and Brian Wilson 1966 had gone in and produced and arranged and mixed it. Oh, and sung the leads.   ::)

Being serious now, I think it's terrific. And as far as doing the extended version of Can't Wait Too Long, people here would have been bitching about how Brian should have just left it alone, since it was on the box set. I think it's great that they gave a great old song a little more exposure, though.

Nah, we cynical non-believers have turned a new Leaf. We support the big guy now. Hey Mama Yama Glory Hallejujah!

There's really no reason to attack the thread-starter for this one. What's wrong with a wish list? Beach Boys fandom is nonstop full of it (take those last three words however you want). Someone sarcastically asks how you'd fix Pet Sounds? Everyone always makes suggestions on this very board: the most common response, by the way, seems to be replace Sloop John B with The Little Girl I Once Knew. Nothing is sacred, especially when you're talking about a record. Just a record. If you would like it more if A were B, or C were B, fine. Say so. I like TLOS a lot, but I have things I'd change. Doesn't mean I don't like it.

A few comments on this board about the art work when it was revealed awhile back. What does everyone think now they have the real deal?

You tell 'em, Luther! Rock, roll, rollin' down the river....

You're right, Luther. Speaking personally, I guess I just feel a little defensive because some of the criticism of TLOS was not justified, in my opinion (like the criticism of Brian's voice, for example, which can't really be helped).

All the same, it takes a real cynic to start picking apart and hunting perceived flaws in a piece of art by, one assumes one of their favourite artists, a day after it's released.

I don't see anything cynical about it. It would be cynical to be talking it down before listening, making up vague accusations (the "it doesn't sound like him" stuff, for example, without knowing the guy or being inside the working circle)), etc. But to listen and form an opinion? That isn't cynicism; it's listening. It's thinking.

That's what I was thinking too.

I suppose AGD can be... but it's nice to have somebody on here whose knowledge of the Beach Boys / Brian Wilson absolutely blows mine out of the water. I'd say he's earned his right to be tedious, and he laces it with a good deal of wit that is lacking in most BW fans.

As far as Scott's comment about needing to have a few words with Mr. Wilson goes, it sounds more like it was a light-hearted comment directed at BDW. It doesn't sound like he actually said it out of any bitterness or anything.

Luther - you're right, it is not a sin to criticize Brian's stuff or talk about how it could have come out better. At the same time, it's easy to lose all objectivity once we are so familiar with a work as most of us doubtless are when it comes to TLOS. To me, this album is an incredible acheivement, not just in light of what Brian went through, but just as it stands. It would be an incredible acheivement for McCartney to come out with an album this good (although for my money, Chaos and Creation and Memory Almost Full are up there.) Compare it to an album like "Imagination," which I bought when it came out in 1998 and listened to earlier today for the first time in months, and it becomes much more clear.

One man's meat is another man's murder - the idea of an environmental theme for TLOS, to me, would date it to 2008, and I am sick enough of hearing about the environment every where I go. I also like having two versions of Live Let Live, and the environmental lyrics on the Arctic Tale soundtrack are great, and are also all the preaching I need from BDW.

So, for me, I will agree with AGD that the album could use a re-master. I'm sure that one day it will be re-mastered, maybe better, maybe worse, although I can't see how the "volume wars" could go any further at this point. Unfortunately I do not have any contacts at Capitol, so I can't get unmastered versions of the tracks as with SMiLe. Oh well...

Lastly, thank Jeebus that we are not the Blue Board. Talk about juvenile. People over there get up in arms about any and call criticism of Brian Wilson, including the Mastering criticism. It hurts my brain to see it. BDW's camp doesn't help with the new totalitarian banner at the top of the page which features Brian saying "Let's keep it cool. I'll be checking out the board from time to time." I guess it's necessary, though, because there are so many adult children over there.

Luther, I appreciate this. The question I asked wasn't meant to be anti-Brian, or his work, perhaps my suggestions were a bit tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps. I'm still trying to work out what I really think of TLOS and what I like or don't like about it, and I guess I thought that this board is a good way to hear what other people reckon. I love reading about how Brian used to re-order and change bits of Smile - sorry that it never emerged at the time, but this experimentation appeals to me. I don't know, but perhaps Brian would understand these days how people could reimagine his music. You could interpret this as cynicism. But I paid a lot of money for concert tickets to see this live and I'm always trying to get friends and family into Brian. I'm really glad he's still going.

I agree, i've already constructed my alternate version of TLOS and I like it very much! ;D

That was not a dumb statement, that was a mistake.

In case you hadn't noticed, the 'tedious' comment wasn't mine. I really appreciate you setting straight any mistakes I or anyone else here makes. And please don't stop doing that. But please keep in mind that we can't all be as well informed as you are (no sarcasm) and that there's no need to say that anything's "dumb" just because someone makes a mistake. If "California Role" is an older song, than I overlooked it on your 'unreleased songs' list... Sorry, my bad... And those other two things, well... Couldn't it be debated that those are more 'nods' than 'raidings'?

What's the big deal about raiding the archives?  Brian's raided the archives his whole career.  Pet Sounds was good, but why did he have to use that old "In My Childhood" rewrite.  And Wild Honey would've been so much better if he hadn't used that old "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby" song.  Sheesh.

Oh, there's nothing wrong with it... After all, they're his songs... But look at Brian's solo albums: I'm not sure about BW88 (anyone?), but Imagination and GIOMH both had a lot of re-recorded older material (either released or unreleased), IJWMFTT and BWPS were (almost) entirely re-recorded Beach Boys material and Orange Crate Art wasn't written by Brian... So TLOS was his chance to prove that he's still able to write a complete album of all new material... Not that it matters much, but it would've been an even better 'statement' will only new material... See what I mean?

How could it be better? I think it's good enough.  :)

No.  Okay, he used some unreleased vocal fragment from 1976 that I've never heard, and rewrote some unreleased song from the '80s that I've never heard.  How does that make for an inferior 'statement'?  How long after one writes a song does one have to release it before one is 'raiding the archives'?

For me, any criticism of raiding the archives has faded with the release of "Oh Mi Amor," "Message Man" and "Just Like Me and You." Three totally new, unfamiliar songs -- and they're tossed out as bonus tracks. At least in this case, the archives were used to make the album (presumably) better,  instead of covering for a lack of songs or failing of inspiration.

I really have to agree with you here LostArt. I couldn't give a stuff if Brian raided his archives. What's worse is when an artist either a) rips off other artists (see: Surfin' USA/intro to Fun, Fun Fun etc..) or b) keeps re-writing (meaning obvious re-writes)/re-recording their own songs.

I mean if we found out that all of the songs from Pet Sounds were written in 1960, would it really matter? Would people really think "gee, I don't think I like this as much anymore"

I'm surprised that Mark London was not behind the art direction, but I think the packaging is close to BWPS brilliance. The cover may not be earthshattering, but the cut-up postcard snippets on the fold-out combined with the very evocative photography is just perfect. Looking at the front and back of the lyric booklet, it occured to me that Brian could be "that lucky old son (of california)".

Brian has always recycled. Remember All Dressed Up for School/I Just Got My Pay/Marcella?

Or Pamela Jean/Car Crazy Cutie
Or that early song (can't remember the title)/Darlin

I guess he figures there's no sense letting a good melody go to waste!

Thanks for the artwork mention Roger!

At the risk of being dumped on Blueboard style here's my thoughts on the new album.
I don't have it yet and have only heard the stream. I like the multi vocals and many of the chord changes. Just what you would expect from a Brian project. Bravo!

But I am not sure it is for me. It is great music but too MOTR for my tastes. Maybe a bit over-smooth. My main problem is I don't want to hear every lead by Brian in the same way I would not want to have heard every song on a Beach Boy album by him or any other single member of the group, even in their vocal prime.

One of the great traits of the BBs was the ability to have a lead on their albums sung by 2, 3,4 or even 5 singers.

My question then is this. Would a album written and produced to a greater extent by Brian Wilson be any less of a Brian Wilson album if say Jeff or Taylor had a lead or two or Brian/ Taylor duet?

Also Brian in interviews has often said he hears 'music in his head'. I presume he doesn't hear a lyric! Pet Sounds had two instumentals. Classics. I would be VERY interested to hear some of his head music played by his band stripped of vocals.

Before you answer think about this. Was a Beach Boy album any less of a Beach Boy album when they did not play a note?