The Smiley Smile Message Board

This topic has been rolling around my brain for a while.

But the Beach Boys (and Brian) -- more than any other band I can think of -- have produced many albums that are not actually by them. These range from basic tribute albums to collections of original songs done in the style of the BB/BW. The power of BW's songs, arrangements and production techniques have deeply touched many musicians -- and not in an abstract way. They create albums that can only be described as BB albums not by the BBs.

Examples? Oh, I have examples.

Caroline Now! -- Ostensible tribute, but also a loving exhumation of unreleased and rare tracks. "Go Away Boy" and "Lines" are both killer.

In Reverse (Matthew Sweet) -- Not entirely in BW style, but much of it is. Several tracks feature Carol Kaye and a wall-of-sound production style. Album-closer "Thunderstorm" is a dead ringer for "Rio Grande."

A Tribute to Brian Wilson (Box o' Clox) -- A tribute album, but (like Caroline Now) almost entirely avoiding hits in favor of rarities. Producer-arranger-singer Cameron Michael Parkes plays loving little musical tricks throughout the album. Backing tracks can be a bit thin at times, but vocals are excellent.

Hawaii (The High Llamas) -- Basically an exercise in crossing the sonic landscape of "Smile" with lounge-Bacharach-exotica stylings. Less revered now than at the time of its release (it caught Bruce Johnston's ear), but Sean O'Hagan takes the style to a new place.

Wondermints, Bali, Mind If We Make Love to You (The Wondermints) -- These albums get in by default. They're less slavish than some, and Darian and co. have the songwriting chops and attitude. A somewhat slicker sound than you might expect if you only know them from their work with Brian.

Present Tense (Sagittarius) -- Most of this Gary Usher-Curt Boettcher album is light, folk-tinged pop. But "My World Fell Down" is a dead ringer for PS-Smile era BB.

Tributes and Rarities (Jeff Foskett) -- A cop out pick, but this is the only Foskett album I own. The man can sing like nobody's business. "Through My Window" and a few other tracks are pitch-perfect replications of the group's vocal and production sound.

Diamonds on the Beach (John Hunter Phillips) -- Perhaps too exact a tribute album, but his voice is consistently lovely.

The Warmth of the Sun -- A compilation of "inspired by" tunes, featuring Foskett, Alan Boyd, Sagittarius, etc. A lovely sampling, and one that bolsters this post -- people enjoy working "in the style of."

Making God Smile -- Another tribute, this one Christ-inspired. Some feel this is the best of the tributes, but it's never quite convinced me. Nice versions of some latter-day Brian tunes, though ("Your Imagination," "Love and Mercy," "Lay Down Burden.")

Freedom Wind (The Explorers Club) -- This album came out three months ago and is astonishing. All of the songs are originals, but this is perhaps the closest approximation of the "Today" Beach Boys sounds (both songwriting and production) that I have ever heard. Add in some Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, Friends -- and you have this album. Shockingly good -- and the BW camp has taken notice. Foskett is thanked in the notes, and Darian and Nelson played with them at a recent show (they stayed at Darian's house). If you like this kind of thing -- BB albums not by the BBs -- get this album. It's perhaps the finest of all of these.

Stuff I haven't heard (but would like to)

Channel Surfing (Alan Boyd)
More Foskett
California Project (Papa Doo Run Run)
Long Promised Road: Songs of Dennis & Carl Wilson

I said this back in 1996 when it came out, and will say it again

Through My Window by Jeff Foskett is the best Beach Boys album the Beach Boys never made

Well...I wouldn't go so far as to say the Beach Boys never made the SONGS -- most of the songs are clearly, uhh..."borrowed" from other Beach Boys songs:
"Thru My Window" --> "I Know There's An Answer"
"Dancing Girl" --> "California Girls"
"Weekend" --> "I Get Around"

etc...and there's even a song called "Keepin' The Summer Alive," which has almost identical lyrics to the BB version but a different melody...

I do find "FISH" to be kinda weird, though...I once asked Jeff, "What's the deal with 'FISH'?" He said the label asked him to put it on the album because it was a hit in Japan or something, but the words are...well...odd...almost a Troy McClure thing going, if you know what I mean...

My personal favorite, though, is Net Sounds 4: Ear Candy.

I've got to hear this! :lol

Chris Rainbow should be mentioned here. He did three albums which are worth picking up
Home of the Brave (1975), Looking Over my Shoulder (1978), White Trails (1979)
If you like the stuff on Sunflower, these are the albums to look for (especially Shoulder). He did also many 45s for the Polydor Label in the UK with non-album B-sides - all worth looking for. Later on he was one of the singers for Alan Parsons Project.

I can't be the only one who thinks this, but if the rest of the BBs had supported Brian in making Smile (and weirder stuff beyond), I bet by 1968, Friends would have sounded a lot more like Animal Collective's 'Sung Tongs' album.

Who Could Win a Rabbit is like a modern Heroes & Villains (yes, i know it's not on Friends...). Instead of 'I've been in this town so long....' we get 'lonely bread and butter hustle, you've been doing it for a while...' Very VDParksian to my ears.

Good call on Chris Rainbow.

My favorite tribute is still Smiling Pets. Didn't care for the Making God Smile CD too much (though I liked the Terri Taylor version of "Vegetables".... Taylor being a genius and all). Caroline Now! was as dry and boring as I could imagine.

The Explorers Club album was okay. I was hoping for something more unique, like what the Raveonettes did with the Spector sound.

Her Wallpaper Reverie by Apples in Stereo and Black Foliage Vol. 1 by Olivia Tremor Control were probably the closest approximations to the Smile bootleg mythology, only with original songs. Myself, I love Fleetwood Mac's Tusk and the High Llamas's Hawaii albums. They might be sprawling and overly-ambitious, but each hit the spot. I can still put them on and let the mood wash over me. All the little electronic experiments on Hawaii... all the little one-minute Buckingham songs on Tusk... those were truly inspired by the Beach Boys, without being direct copy-cats. I personally hear just as much Steely Dan on the early High Llamas albums, as I do Beach Boys. And their later albums have a lot more variant influences, from free-jazz to bossa-nova to Shuggie Otis. The High Llamas got pigeonholed, but undeservedly so. "Bacaroo" from their latest LP is just gorgeous.

I hate the Explorer's Club. All of their songs are just ripoffs of specific Beach Boys songs. I hope Mike Love sues them.

Sorry, the Explorers Club is brilliant. And it's patently ridiculous to say all the songs on their album rip off specific Beach Boys tunes, because it's just not true. There are definitely lifts here and there (and an outright rewrite of "I Do") but I find them delightful.

I can understand they're not to everyone's taste, but why the hate? And before you say it's because they're covering old ground, remember this is a board that obsesses over 40-year-old session tapes.

I bet if EP's bass player posted here more often than he does on Ian's board a lot of you would be changing your tune.

There's a difference between making a song that sounds like the Beach Boys and making a song that sounds like "It's OK". And are they charging people for this? Making money of their ripoffs? That's just wrong.

Well, perhaps it's wrong for Brian to charge money for his Phil Spector rip-offs. Or for Jan Berry to charge for his Brian Wilson rip offs.

Or, perhaps it was wrong for Brian to claim sole writer credit for a song that was "Sweet Little 16" by Chuck Berry with different lyrics.

Rip-offs have a noble and notable place in the BB/BW canon. And let's see how Brian feels about the Explorers:

On the positive side:

The "Malibooz Rule" Lp from the early 80s... Like the BBoys with slightly more of an edge. Tracks of particular note being:

'308' ("she's real great my 3-0-8..."), and for alot of fun (although not too BBoys-like),
'Honey Dew (We Canteloupe)', where the name of the game appears to be to include as many names of fruit and vegetables as possible throughout the lyrics of the song! Dean Torrence makes a guest appearence on 'Sweet Surfin' Music' which is a classic.

I'd add to this 'The Best Of Ronnie & The Daytonas' CD on Sundazed. Get past all the surf and 'rod stuff (as good as it is) and tracks like 'Sandy' and 'When Stars Shine Bright' are a great listen in a more mature kind of way...

On the negative side:

'California Project' by Papa Do Run Run...  An attempt to recreate the BBoys sound and production... All clinically clean cover versions, sonically stripped of any emotion... Every song a BBoys cover. Yawn. Why bother...?

Several albums produced by Gary Usher after The BBoys had hit. (Heard one, you've heard them all... Well, almost...)

Plus any one of a number of Mike Love remakes, (excepting maybe 'Salute To Nascar' which I listen to on a semi-regular basis...)

It was wrong, and he got sued.

Did he get sued? I was pretty sure that there were threats and so the credit was changed to just "Chuck Berry" but then years later it was changed (rightfully) to "Berry/Wilson".

I'm with you there Mr. Ski. That Papa Doo Run Run cover album is just lifeless. I have heard worse but it is just completely boring when you can just listen to the originals which are like 200 times better and have more energy and feeling in them

Anyway, I will add The Surfsiders. Come on, everyone has to love these guys :lol

Yeah, you're right, Chuck Berry threatened to sue but they changed the credits.

Right on - Sung Tongs, and Person Pitch are probably the closest thing we have to new albums that capture the spirit of wacked out, unapologetic Smile-era Brian. I'd take the AC over Explorer's Club any day. Never thought of the lyrics to rabbit in that context though - interesting observation, Loaf.

There are some good songs on the LP, but is it just me, or is this LP absolutely covered in auto-tune? The chorus of "Do You Love Me" is like listening to a robot singing. Horrible.

My vote goes to Foskett's "Thru' My Window" too. "Fish" is a total classic.

More like "(rightfully) to Berry/Bowles/Wilson," no???

Well, my point was that that a lot of the BB/BW legacy is built on on the borrowing of others' sounds (Spector, Four Freshmen, Berry) -- and sometimes outright theft. So that criteria alone shouldn't be used to discount an album. But your mileage may vary.

But getting back to the point -- this thread is titled "Best Beach Boys / BW album NOT by the BB / BW." Saying any group mentioned here is unoriginal is missing the point. This is all about unoriginality!

That being said, I have a couple of albums to add:

The Soft Bulletin (Flaming Lips) -- Did someone say autotune? An opulently produced album with a wounded heart -- very BW.
Symphonic Tribute to Brian Wilson (Gary Usher) -- Easy listening B-dub. But tasteful.

And I really need to check out that Animal Collective record.

For what Mike has occassionally said, perhaps it should be "Berry/Bowles/Wilson/Love". :D

It's only one song, but I rather like Weird Al's "Pancreas".

I think it'd be a gas for Brian to record the best 12 "Brian Wilson" ripoffs, like the master acknowledging the student. You could call the album "Child Is Father Of The Man".

I noticed a big BW/BB influence with the Lips -- I think it was a song called "Summertime" from the Yoshimi disc.  BIGTIME Beach Boys rip.

And if anyone ever needed auto-tune, yes, these guys.  Honestly his voice is horrendous, and makes me wonder how these guys "make it" with so many bands out there! You know!?  Wow.

I realize his weak voice was probably and originally part of the group's post-punk charm (the song "Vaseline" etc), but...geez...can you imagine them singing the national anthem?  Ouch, baby.   :lol

Several albums produced by Gary Usher after The BBoys had hit. (Heard one, you've heard them all... Well, almost...)

I don't understand this sentiment for the life of me. Give me Surf Route 101 or give me death...

And if anyone ever needed auto-tune, yes, these guys.  Honestly his voice is horrendous, and makes me wonder how these guys "make it" with so many bands out there! You know!?  Wow.

His voice sounds more like Neil Young's to me, than like any other post-punk act. Maybe I'm missing something.

I think Coyne's voice is somewhat charming. The band made it because the Lips have consistently written good songs and have good players (well, player -- Steven Drozd). Plus, they put on one of the best live shows I've ever seen.

I guess by "post-punk" I meant in the way punk "doesn't care" about "being good."  That's the point of it all.  Kind of a "we're not trying to be good - so it's okay that we're not -- and it's actually you who's no-good for not 'getting it' that that's what we're doing" sort of thing?

You're right, he does sound a little like Neil Young. 

I agree.  It has its charm (but I stand by my 'national anthem' claim!) They're one of the few bands that I actually look-forward to hearing their next album.  Though I didn't care much at all for the last one.  Something about war...I forget...it was nothing new, nothing good. 

Speaking of BW/BB bands -- I've noticed Beck has a done a lot of BW-inspired stuff.  Mutations...and most of his tracks seem to be doin' the wall-o'-harmonies lately.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I see a lot of people praise them but they honestly don't bring anything unique to the table. I see that they're pretty popular and its a shame because I see tons of bands that are a lot more talented and original that aren't getting half the attention.

I really don't get the hype, they bore me.
 

Jonas -- What's the hype? I'm saying I like them. They're an indie band on an indie label and still work full-time jobs in North Carolina. It's not like we're talking about Britney Spears.

And as for the uniqueness -- this thread is, as I said, about the best BW/BB records not made by the BW/BB. It's not about random great new bands. Start your own thread for them.

(And frankly -- I'll take Darian Sahanaha and Brian Wilson's musical taste over yours. Just sayin.)

Yeah, but Clay, what I think everyone is saying is that it's LIKE a Beach Boys album that isn't a very good Beach Boys album. And the title of the thread is asking for the "best" of those Beach Boys-esuqe albums.

I have high hopes for them, and maybe it will grow on me. When Subpop released the 4-song EP of Pet Sounds cuts in 1996, I was really stoked about that. There were already quite a lot of indie bands channeling Smile on their records, but no one was bringing the pre-1966 Beach Boys sound into the indie world. I hoped for a lot from Exploerer's Club, but wasn't that crazy about it. I thought it would be a lot of post-modern or quirky, but the lyrics just left me kinda cold. Whereas, bands like Fountains of Wayne and Fleet Foxes sort of channel a sound that is obvious, but they had something very modern to it.

Brian: That's not what people are saying. Or at least not the posts I've read.

The comments have all been along the lines of "they sound too much like the Beach Boys" or that every song is a rewrite of a Beach Boys tune. The second point is demonstrably false. The first point, as I have stated repeatedly, is kinda what this thread is about.

Again, they might be not to everyone's taste. That's okay. People might not like the songwriting. That's okay. You might think they just didn't make a good Beach Boys album. That's okay, too. But to say they sound too much like the BBs/BW on a thread that is explicitly about soundalikes (or inspired-bys) -- it befuddles me.

And frankly, it befuddles me even more that people want to spend so much energy tearing down a group that has pretty much the same aims as lots of folks in the BB/BW fan community -- to pay tribute to this wonderful music. Brian and his band understand that. Why don't we?

Or, and I guess this is the elephant in the room, has someone from the group made an ass of themselves online somewhere and I haven't heard about it? Is there some particularly annoying person who has been making their case (well, aside from me) that has pissed people off? I mean, why is it okay for Jeff Foskett to rewrite "I know there's an answer" as "Through My Window" and somehow when the Explorers Club does something similar it's a betrayal of music and taste?

Where's the hype? Did you read this thread? Have you read other similar threads? People are always hyping up the EC as if they're some wonderfully amazing band and to me they just settle short. Sorry if you disagree, but thats my opinion.


This is an open forum where discussion ranges vary from thread to thread. My reply has nothing to do with your post or your opinions, I was just agreeing with Aegir. None of my comments were ever directed towards you.


Don't get butt-hurt just because I don't agree with you on 'musical tastes' and a certain band.

Jonas: There's a difference between hype -- defined as "promotional publicity of an extravagant or contrived kind" -- and someone saying they like a band on a message board. Sheesh.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hype

I don't see what the major difference is if the 'hype' is coming from a publicity program or word of mouth. Maybe its just me...

Yes, let's go through that definition.

1.   to stimulate, excite, or agitate (usually fol. by up): She was hyped up at the thought of owning her own car.
2.   to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily: a promoter who knows how to hype a prizefight.
3.   to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc. (usually fol. by up).
4.   to trick; gull.
–noun
5.   exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
6.   an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
7.   a swindle, deception, or trick.

You wrote: "I really don't get the hype." You don't mean definition 1. Definitions 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are precisely what I wrote. So the only one left is 7, which I also assume you don't mean.

I am not a publicity agent for the band. I'm not making false claims about them. I'm merely saying I think they're a great BB/BW soundalike band. That's not hype. It's me sharing something I like on a message board. Perhaps you mean you don't like people praising a band you think is crappy. But that sounds more personal. So you say you don't like the hype. Because it's easier to say "hype" is misinformed or tasteless than a specific person's opinion.

Of course, I could pointlessly defensive. Maybe my opinion is misinformed or tasteless. It certainly has been before (and probably still is, given the double-disk ABBA collection I purchased over the weekend).

Incidentally, I'm so sorry to have derailed this from the point. Please forgive.

I didn't compare anyone to Hitler, but I did cite the dictionary first, which is nearly as bad.

:lol you're ridiculous.

I'll mention this again, my original reply wasn't directed towards you and your post. So get off your high horse assuming it was to attack your opinion. However, I've read in many other places (besides SS) of people 'hyping' the band because they thought they were so great (see definitions 2 and 3 as I find them the closest to the meaning I was going for)...and hence I said 'I don't get the hype.' So I was never saying that YOU were specifically hyping the band, but that there has been general hype for them on different parts of the interweb. Geez folks, besides the negativity in this board there really seems to be a reading comprehension problem as well...

And frankly, it befuddles me even more that people want to spend so much energy tearing down a group that has pretty much the same aims as lots of folks in the BB/BW fan community -- to pay tribute to this wonderful music. Brian and his band understand that. Why don't we?

Well, see, that's where some of us disagree. Some would want EVERYTHING in the world to just sound like the Beach Boys. And anything that sounds just like that magic music is perfect for them. Others just see the Beach Boys as one band that they like. And of course, there are so many in betweens. But the point is, there is a small contingent that really only follow the Beach Boys, their solo materials and any off-shoots that sound like the Beach Boys expressly.

Or, and I guess this is the elephant in the room, has someone from the group made an ass of themselves online somewhere and I haven't heard about it? Is there some particularly annoying person who has been making their case (well, aside from me) that has pissed people off? I mean, why is it okay for Jeff Foskett to rewrite "I know there's an answer" as "Through My Window" and somehow when the Explorers Club does something similar it's a betrayal of music and taste?

Myself, I'm not a Jeff Foskett fan. It's too much of a tribute, and I'd prefer something like the High Llamas or Olivia Tremor Control, where I can hear the influences I love, but there's an implicit growth, diversity and artistic independence. It's okay to pay tribute to your favorite band, but I have to say, I want something a little more personal. Even with the '60s Beach Boys knock-offs, I tend to like them more, because they are less attached to this spiritual mumbo-jumbo, and more inclined towards just songs about being young and carefree.

Brian: I think that's absolutely the crux of the matter. Very nicely put.

I suppose that for me, it's not an either/or. I find the duplication and inspiration both compelling. Certainly an album like "The Soft Bulletin" or something has greater individuality (and arguably more artistic quality) because the band is trying to extend the orchestral pop sound. But I can enjoy the Explorers because it sounds like a lost album from the 60s -- on the level of Sagittarius or something.

And speaking of ABBA -- "On and On and On" totally rips from "Do It Again." I had no idea.

Also, REM goes to the BW/BB well in both the "Up" and "Reveal" albums. Peter Buck has a thing for the "Love You" synths.

My two pennies worth...

I really loved Person Pitch and Strawberry Jam. Certain tracks put me in the same emotional place as the best Beach Boys output. There's the weird shouldn't work but does work throwing together of sounds, the sudden shifts in tempo and instrumentation. Winter's Love from Sung Tongs is also superb (but the rest of the album, for me, does not quite reach the same standard). Some of the AC/Panda Bear output has the same intense yearning quality that I hear in so much of the Beach Boys music.

And I know already that others will passionately disagree!

C'est tout.

"At My Most Beautiful" by REM is a great song. Heavily influenced by Pet Sounds, yet gorgeous in its own way.

I also didn't mean to imply that Jeff Foskett is somehow untalented. There was an album he released in the late '90s that I liked. It was a duets album. Also, Jeff Larson is another one of those artists closely aligned with the Beach Boys touring band and Papa Doo Ron Ron world, yet I like Larson quite a lot. I even wrote liner notes for his CD Swimming in the Make Believe. So I know I don't come from the avant-garde only angle here. When guys like Larson or Foskett connect, I'm totally cool with it.

No totally agree. I saw them live and they were amazing. They are the only new band that comes close to the genius of peak Brian Wilson. That doesn't mean that they sound the same, or if you like Pet Sounds you will like Animal Collective. I just find that a lot of new music that is derived from The Beach Boys can sound a bit overly derivative and pastiche-ey (sorry don't know the correct word there), whereas the Animal Collective sounds both new and exploratory, AND obviously influenced by Brian Wilson at the same time. For the uninitiated, I'd say Person Pitch by Panda Bear (a member of AC) is the best access point, after that Sung Tongs and Strawberry Jam.

^ I'll be the one who disagrees, then. I think they're dramatically overrated (both AC and Panda Bear). There isn't much there worth paying attention to, in my opinion.

Can I go just sort of off topic and give my opinion on "it sounds like!" bands and albums? I mean, since you probably really want to know?  ;)  It's along the lines of what brianc said earlier: while I like to hear from time to time "oh, that's like [band]" in someone's music and admit of course that recognizable references or influences are pretty much unavoidable, I generally dislike sound-alike bands or albums. Or rather, I can't quite fully love and respect them the way I do a more original album. Because even at its best, that kind of music is imitative, which is difficult, sure, but it's like fetishism, admitting that you are inferior of the object of your obvious adoration. I prefer to think of bands as themselves, and over time figure out who is doing the more enjoyable or interesting things. That's just me. I know everyone is listening to different things for different reasons, and that's all well and good. And thus ends our interruption.

Well said, Luther!

I feel like most of the '90s were all about who your references were. It was as if the possibility of a band like the Beach Boys or Kiss was never going to happen again. Just someone that you couldn't compare anything else to, even if the references were on their sleeves.

Well, I think the chances are very good that we won't have another Beach Boys, Beatles, etc. anytime soon.

The world is simply too different for any one group to have such cultural leverage. Means of distribution are decentralized, and there is no single (or even half-dozen) tastemakers to determine what gets played.

I think that probably makes for more interesting music, but it's less influential across a broad swath of people.

That only matters if you're interested in bands as a sociological experiment, though, or in being caught up in that kind of wave of excitement. If you're interested only in music, it's irrelevant whether a band gathers such an immense percentage of the population's interest for a sustained period of time, a la the Beatles.

Myself, I like both. Of course, the music comes first. if it didn't, I woudn't have spent the better part of my twenties chasing an unreleased album that i thought brilliant. At the same time, I love that part in the film Almost Famous, where the brunette is talking about how she loves a band or a piece of music so much. I mean, there's something amazing about being swept up in the excitement of rock 'n' roll. Your soul comes alive.

And while I have a ball playing drum circles or playing music that is artistic and personal with friends, I also get a big thrill out of doing open mic nights or karaoke, and just nailing a song with one of those big choruses.

Luther: It does matter if bands and musicians are able to have careers doing what they love. Do you think the Beach Boys -- or any other popular band, for that matter -- would have been able to continue making elaborate studio albums without a broad public buying them?

The counter-argument, I suppose, is that music shouldn't be a full-time occupation anyway -- or if it is, it should be like the classical world, where composers generally work in academia or in soundtracks to subsidize their more purely creative endeavors.

A lot of musicians make relatively elaborate albums now without the broad public buying them. They do it through self-financing a lot more, getting most of their touring and merch profits and of course the beauty of home-based equipment. I know that's where some people start arguing about quality, but not me. Power to the artist. As for subsidized art ... problematic for me. Nice to think you don't have to work (otherwise), but I don't like government influence on what is good or worthy art (or religion or etc.).

How about the beautiful melodies, for one? On Person Pitch, Noah Lennox manages to write better pop hooks than anyone else I have heard recently. Listen to Take Pills for example: the second melody that crossfades in after a couple of minutes is stunning. The fact that it's so modestly concealed within the track makes it all the more compelling.  These kind of melodies are scattered throughout Strawberry jam too. I too have a problem with soundalike bands, but I think Person Pitch is more than that. PB is taking the familiar sound of Pet Sounds and Spector and deconstructing it through repetition, use of incongrous samples etc. to create something altogether new and original, whereas a band such as Explorer's Club (probably an unfair comparison) I would agree is derivative to the point of being not much more than a tribute act. Just my opinion of course. I certainly wouldn't describe the AC as a soundalike band, although maybe you weren't.

As an afterthought, I mention that Panda Bear deconstructs the sound of Pet Sounds but that makes it sound like an intellectual exercise and I don't view AC or Panda Bear as an intellectual band. I think there is something quite studied and intellectual about a band like say the High llamas which, although they are often great, puts me off them a bit. The Animal Collective (and related projects) although 'arty' feels very much like music concerned with feeling and emotion i.e. the heart, over intellectualism i.e. the head. Soundalike bands are ofetn, primarily an intellectual exercise in creating a convincing facsimile, whereas I think the AC is motivated primarily by creating feels (hence the title of one of their albums!) and this puts them genuinely closer to the spirit of Brian Wilson, than a band such as High Llamas, in my opinion.

Continuing the AC discussion:

i would completely agree that AC are not a 'soundalike' band, (so if you are looking for more surf n' car tunes, this isn't the place) but, as JCarson put it:


For us people who frequent this board, i presume because of the feeling we get from the BBs, you can't ask any more than this.

Sort of contradicting what i said above, the most BW-esque moment for me comes from Panda Bear's (stunning) Bros (meaning Brothers, not the boy band), just listen to the way he sings the line "I'm not trying to forget you, Whoa oh OH" - it's tossed out there like Brian at his melodic and compositional peak.

A BW-AC collaboration would likely bring about the second coming.

She & Him reminds me a lot of the Beach Boys, especially "Sentimental Heart" and "Why Do You Let Me Stay Here".

So I guess to don't subscribe to the notion that (in part) during the surf/rod boom years Usher basically took the largely commercially successful characteristics of BBoy records and saturated the market with similar sounding products/cover versions in the hope of achieving a similar level of success?!

Looking forward to Pop Surf Culture btw, can you give us a link where we can get an idea of what to expect? Or can you give us a condensed nutshell description only here as not to derail...?

mrski,

One, I think Gary Usher was part of the shaping of the early Beach Boys sound, having written and recorded songs before Brian and the Boys released their music, and also having written songs with Brian during the first projects of the Beach Boys. Gary's productions were exploitation in nature, no arguing that. I just happen to think, when it clicked, Usher was incredible. Listen to "Midnight Run" by the Superstocks. Much as I love the Pyramids, I think Usher's version is better. As to the notion of oversaturation, I'm not exactly sure how much of Usher's exploitation work got that far out there. A lot of that stuff was sold at Woolworth's or given away as promotional items. Gary's best work... the Beach Party soundtracks, the Superstocks and the Hondells... well, I think there was real artistic integrity there. His production talents shown all the more when he worked with the Byrds and his own Sagittarius. But for me, even his exploitation records are all well-produced.

Pop Surf Culture... it traces the history of surf in film, art, publishing, music and fashion from the dawn of the 20th Century to the present, with the major focus being the more pop/bohemian elements seen in drawings of Rick Griffin. As for Beach Boys content, there will be about ten pictures not published elsewhere, and a lot of insight into the environment that birthed their music-making. There's also a chapter on Smile and an ad for the Radiant Radish. Hope that didn't derail.

Luther -- When I said subsidized, I meant that the artist himself or herself would pay for their art through outside work. Not that they would get a government grant or something.

But I do think that what the Beach Boys are -- what Brian Wilson is -- is hugely shaped by the context of popular music. That is, there is such a thing as a stream of music that is listened to and enjoyed by a broad swath of the public. I think the loss of that -- and we are losing it -- profoundly changes our culture and the meaning of the music made within it.

Certainly it reduces shared experience, as do many other things we do in our times and places: iPod in public, not conversation; alone in front of a computer instead of out with [whoever]; and so on. And yes, segmentation of music is a part of that: listen to what you like with people like you who like it. Avoid others. I don't know about plusses and minuses, but it changes things.

I would say that, to me, The Superstocks do appear to be somewhat different from what I would consider to be the Usher norm. Some of the instrumentals are stand out pieces, however others I could pass over... 'Wheel Stands' and 'Gridiron Goodie' are two that do it for me!


I'm a Rick Griffin fan, and have been ever since I bought a Challengers album which included one of his comic-books about the band.  Ever see that picture disc he designed for the early 80s revival group The Evaisons? I'd frame it, -if it wasn't such a good record...!

So there's a couple of BBoy pieces, anything to look forward to regarding instrumental bands?

I very much like Usher's Chad and Jeremy, Byrds and Peanut Butter Conspiracy albums, there are some great productions in a variety of styles among his Decca singles, too (unfortunately never released elsewhere).. as far as his surf output is concerned there are admittedly many fillers, although The Revells album is quite good, his own It's A Lie single is great.

I would say that, to me, The Superstocks do appear to be somewhat different from what I would consider to be the Usher norm. Some of the instrumentals are stand out pieces, however others I could pass over... 'Wheel Stands' and 'Gridiron Goodie' are two that do it for me!

Agreed. Every Superstocks album has instrumentals, which, to me, are the stand-out cuts. Although, Surf Route 101 features two songs from the Wilson/Usher soundtrack for Muscle Beach Party.

I'm a Rick Griffin fan, and have been ever since I bought a Challengers album which included one of his comic-books about the band.  Ever see that picture disc he designed for the early 80s revival group The Evaisons? I'd frame it, -if it wasn't such a good record...!

That Evasions record is amazing, and Griffin's art perfectly marries his early bohemian style with his later hippy style. I have the picture disc shown in Pop Surf Culture, in a chapter titled "The Second Wave of Surf Music."

So there's a couple of BBoy pieces, anything to look forward to regarding instrumental bands?

OH, YEAH, man. A lot. "What Was the First Surf Record?," "The Essential Surf Albums," "The Surfer's Stomp Dance Craze," "Surf Music Nightclubs," "The Deauville Castle Club Surf Battle," "Midwest Surf Music," "The East Coast Surf Scene," and more. And to bring it back to the topic of this thread...

There's a chapter on surf exploitation LPs from the '60s, with more examples than I care to admit of "bands" that did Beach Boys knock-offs, circa 1963-65.

Certainly it reduces shared experience, as do many other things we do in our times and places: iPod in public, not conversation; alone in front of a computer instead of out with [whoever]; and so on. And yes, segmentation of music is a part of that: listen to what you like with people like you who like it. Avoid others. I don't know about plusses and minuses, but it changes things.

The digital world has certainly changed things, and made it more egalitarian on so many levels. But there is also a general negative tone that has pervaded music journalism since the punk era, but especially from the mid-'90s on. There was a period where everyone was so ironic, and I'm not sure sincerity has really recovered, though the documentary about the Dixie Chicks made me think that people are craving more sincerity. This devotion to sub-culture is to be admired on one level, but on the other, it makes for this bitter-faced cynicism which I can't help but think is unhealthy. And maybe that's what has killed the interest in popular music also being really amazing and personal. Big choruses and anthems are, by nature, simplistic, but what I love about them is their simplicity. A song like "All You Need Is Love" is simple by neccesity.

Okay, hands up, I'm a chump – I've only just now got hold of a copy of the album Channel Surfing, by Alan Boyd.

Alan understands the Beach Boys' music better than the Beach Boys do!

Terrific, empathetic music.  Well written, well produced and well performed. Well well well!

No love for Merriweather Post Pavillion?

AC tends to remind me a lot of "Mama Says", "Heroes and Villains Part 2", "Whistle In", The Hawaiian chant from "Worms", "Little Pad", "She's Goin' Bald", even "Wake the World", and even Beatles songs like "Wild Honey Pie" and "Why Don't We Do It In the Road?".

I would second the post above about Channel Surfing. It is a wonderful collection of tunes that at times do the Beach Boys better than they do.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15328.0.html