The Smiley Smile Message Board

Over the years I've gotten the impression that nothing should be taken for granted when it comes to this guy.  I remember when I lived in Los Angeles and Phil Sloan wrote an angry letter to one of the trades to refute Landy's apparent claim to have produced "Eve Of Destruction".  In addition to Brian and Richard Harris, Landy is also widely reported as having treated Alice Cooper and Rod Steiger.

Have those last two ever been confirmed? Has George Benson ever spoken about him publicly? Was he ever really referred to in print as "Therapist to the stars", or did he originate that himself? Surely there are dozens of therapists who have treated more celebrities than those four (even provided that all four claims are legitimate).

I know the Alice Cooper one is true. Landy was treating his alcoholism but apparently did a terrible job.

Thanks, Aegir- any information on this is very interesting to me- I've wondered for years.

I asked this question on another thread, and it was addressed to some extent. But since you started this thread, maybe it could be explored further.

Two obvious givens: I  am not a doctor, and I don't know the extent of Brian's problems in 1982. But this is my question, or problem with Landy's treatment. I always thought the two major problems with Brian in 1982 was his continued abuse of non-prescription drugs, and his morbid obesity/unhealthy habits. I wasn't sure if his mental illness (whatever the diagnosis) was that serious. By that I mean, was he acting so strangely that he needed to be institutionalized? I am now aware that Landy probably misdiagnosed Brian's condition, but I can't understand why it was necessary to put Brian on such heavy medication. I don't think those medications were necessary to wean Brian off of cocaine, cigarettes, and food. So, were they absolutely necessary to treat whatever mental illness Landy thought Brian had. What were the symptoms that Landy was trying to treat?

George Benson confirmed Landy helped get him started.

According Brian's ever-reliable biography, the drug treatment was not the single most important part of the therapy. The aim was to push Brian out of his comfort zone by relocating him into situations where he would have to engage himself and make decisions related to his own well-being. Landy's partial aim was to end the dependency of Brian upon other people which enabled him to disengage so much from reality. And also draw attention away from the persona Brian had created for himself which was comfortable for him its the lack of expectations. This I think is distinct from Brian's ongoing depression and schizoid-type illness (which we know as not being schizophrenia as such, but which traditional medicine has often failed to differentiate effectively)

I don't want to totally defend Landy, who was a problematic character, but I'm not sure that the over-medication was actually Landy's doing, and whether other patients with similar conditions to Brian would also have been over-medicated at this point in time. Psychiatry has sometimes been a less than exact medical science. It's possible Landy simply reflected the (faulty) consensus at the time.

It strikes me how badly it all worked out for Landy professionally, even if his fall from grace did involve retirement to Hawaii, which can never be too bad I guess...

carl, I couldn't see it more differently.  I believe Landy picked a vulnerable patient's pocket for millions of dollars, isolated him personally, exploited him to a profound degree in numerous ways, and- based on some evidence- was deeply involved in- or at best complicit in- the drugging of Brian at a worse level than is generally known. I believe Brian is still paying a tragic price for those "services".  I believe that it was a very, very lucky man who left for Hawaii with everything but his California license and his reputation.

Just personal opinions, and I certainly respect the other view.

I couldn't help but notice that in May Pang's book Loving John (for you Beatles non-fans, the "John" is John Lennon), there is a really sappy thanks to Dr. Eugene E. Landy and thanking him for being such a compassionate man (or something....too lazy to open the book)...anybody know what that's about???

From the Wikipedia Entry for the late Gig Young, Oscar-winning actor popular in the 50s and 60s:

Death

On October 19, 1978, three weeks after his marriage to Schmidt, the couple was found dead at home in their Manhattan apartment.  Police theorized that Young first shot his wife and then turned the gun on himself in a murder-suicide. After an investigation, police stated Young had acted on the spur of the moment and his actions were not planned.  The motive of the murder-suicide remains unclear.  It was later revealed that Young had been receiving psychiatric treatment—including experimental use of LSD—from the controversial psychologist Dr. Eugene Landy, who was later professionally decertified for his controlling treatment of Beach Boy Brian Wilson.

LSD?! Holy sh*t.

Yeah....WOW.

I had wondered if he was involved with Gig Young at any time near when that happened.

Alan, this would be a stunning addition to the Landy saga, but after looking into it a little preliminarily, I'm going to personally consider it to be in the "unsubstantiated" file for now. 

The Wikipedia footnotes for this detail lead to two articles that don't mention or confirm that Landy prescribed LSD to Young around the time of his death.  There are numerous references to Young having been in Landy's care at the time of his death, but they don't have corroboration and for all I know, they could each be the source of the other references. What I have been able to find is a suggestion (unsourced) that Young was involved in LSD experiments in the early sixties.  The most intriguing lead I've found is a mention that Landy had appeared on an episode of E Channel's "Mysteries and Scandals" devoted to Young's death, so this could be the source of the information. 

I'd like to get this settled, one way or the other- whatever the truth may be.

She and her co writer thanks Landy for his compresion of the fragileties of the human soul and his study of the human behaviour (I'm paraphrasing from the Spanish edition) which were an inspiration during the hard times when they wrote the book. I assume that the psychobabble that pops up from time to time regarding Lennon's behavior comes from the Landy school. Actually, years ago, someone (David Propsky, I believe) inquired May about this on rec.music.beatles but she didn't answered.

There was a book published in the early 1990s about Gig Young and the circumstances of his death.... I think it was called "Final Gig."  I remember standing in a bookstore many years ago, picking up the book and leafing through it, and I recall being rather startled when I saw Dr. Landy mentioned in there.  I don't recall many of the specifics, though. 

In one of the biographies/documentaries, somebody (Timothy White?) said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Landy saved Brian's life, but if it wasn't him, it would've been somebody else". Or something to that effect. I've often thought about that. It is said that Brian saw quite a few psychiatrists before Landy, but I've never seen a number mentioned. So, my question is this, and it is in no way a shot at Marillyn: Does anybody ever wonder how different Brian's life and the history of The Beach Boys would be, if in late 1975, Marilyn hired a different doctor?

Yes I have thought about that too Sheriff but I have always thought it pretty pointless to speculate what might have been. I mean who knows what would have been different? Would Brian have died? Would he have gotten back to his old self somehow? Would it have been any different? Who knows... in the end I think we are lucky to have Brian and we should be thankful that he is still creating any sort of music. But I also think Brian's survival just shows that he is stronger than some people give him credit for so maybe he would've pulled through with any other 'doctor'? Again, who knows...

Great topic.

....back to LSD   ;D     :brian  (i've been wait to use that smile!)

...was the LSD back in the 50s and 60s different?  In Beautiful Dreamer that one dude (who annoyed me) said he gave Brian x amount of the "real stuff" or something like that.

Well, they've recently started doing LSD trials on terminally ill patients, the thinking being that this will enable them to work out ways in which to appreciate the time that is left to them. But I really don't know if and in what context Landy would have administered LSD - once again, I don't really want to defend the bloke when so much is unclear.

In the late 50's and early 60's the American Military was experimenting with LSD - Ken Kesey was one of the test subjects - and psychiatrists started experimenting with it as well.  Cary Grant took LSD under the guidance of his psychiatrist.  So it would not surprize me at all if Gig Young took it as well - but this was before it was illegal.  I doubt Gig Young would have been involved in something like that in the late 70's (or Landy - he would clearly lose his license for that).

Back then, the acid was much purer and stronger.

Interesting enough I was reading about this the other day, from Wikipedia:

OH MY GOD.   :o

Is it any freekin' wonder -- at those levels -- that guys like Syd Barrett never returned.  I remember hearing that the Mama's and Papa's wrote California Dreaming in the presence of a "bottle" of that stuff.  I'm no "chemist" or anything so I'm not too familiar with those measurements...but the difference between a drop of that stuff and, let's say a "small puddle" would be night and day ... to say the least.

And...it being more pure, probably doubles it further.  Insane. 

I meant to include this, this might help a bit, again from Wikipedia:

An article on Young- I believe it was at TCM' s site- placed his LSD experimentation with Grant's in this same time period- (early sixties).

Alan, thanks for the lead on that book- I found it and I'll report what it says about Landy here.

Man, all this talk of LSD is really putting me on to a real LSD trip (pun).  But seriously...this stuff, at those levels of dosage (and purity) this is really, really serious stuff.

I can completely understand how this would lead to "life changing" moments.  Did Brian change?  I think he did.  I mean deep, brain stem kind of architecture.  I don't know if its just on a conscious level -- or if its deeper than that, more source oriented or both.  But the concepts and the mental language we wrap around the concepts we perceive can be totally rebuilt...from the ground up.

Another thing I was thinking about....(probably another thread) was how much Brian changed....some time in the early 70s.  He went from a shy, intelligent, charming all-american and quick-thinking (aka "bright") fellow......to some kind of low-key, odd-ball nutter as he emerged in the mid-70s.  I would suspect something seriously happened to him, what I don't know, in the early 70s.  I mean like Brain-Damage.  Coke and pot, I guess...not acid.  Acid opened doors and warped his mind...but those other chemicals, combined with serious "removal from reality" behavior-trend led us to....well, "Fairytale music."

"I'm the pied piper..." kind of stuff.   :o  I mean, he was goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone.

There are two quotes that come to mind quite frequently with me, and I'll paraphrase slightly....

First, it's Marilyn stating that Brian was never the same after his first LSD experience. Yes, he went on to create some great music, but, as a person, did he change?

And, second, Brian stating that in the late 60's or early 1970's, he was constantly going over to friends' houses (I think he mentioned Danny Hutton) and getting high. Just think of how many drugs he ingested over that period of time. It HAD to have some kind of effect on his brain...

It seems that acid was a small part of what was flying around in Wilson's world. He's tended to blame the acid particularly - and at these dosages, I expect it would render one rather disorientated for a while - but it was primarily taken in conjunction with, and around  other substances. Just because you feel "damaged" doesn't necessarily mean you are - it could be the perception of deterioration which may be its biggest manifestion, a projection of basic fears. If he had finished taking all drugs in 1968 by the mid-70s he would have been in better shape. Who knows, maybe entirely recovered.

I don't think Brian was an addict until 72-73, it happened really slowly but even as late as 73 or 74 interviews he sounds much more with it then he did in 1976.

Yeah...the Today-Summer Days-Pet Sounds-Smile period, or LSD days...he was accelerated, extremely focused, driven and his spirit was soaring.  But his faculties were right there, riding shotgun and able to keep up with it all (which is why it all worked so well.)  I think he changed, yet still the same Brian...he was really just "occupied."  So I think a return to the Brian Marilyn knew would have been possible...had he gone clean.

So, post-Smile, it's easy to notice the change in "direction" but I don't think its a change in "person" yet.  He was wounded, crushed, into other things et al.  But he was basically the same person -- just his spirit was crushed.  Hence the low-key, mellow, period of Wild Honey, Friends.  The same "Brian" just starting to withdraw.

But fast-forward to the early-mid 70s....CLEARLY, this a different Brian altogether.  The low-key late 60s led to a serious reality-removal for Brian.  Creatively -- his work begins to reflect this.

And you're right, by 76....he was mental.  No doubt.  This wasn't a crushed man withdrawing anymore...this was a guy who was really starting to look....well, homeless.

It's rare, but there are people who take only one or two trips on acid (especially with those large 60's dosages) and who are permanently changed, personality wise, and sometimes are "damaged" as well as changed.  Sometimes it turns out that these people are schizophrenic and in the early stages of the manifestation of their disease with only mild symptoms until they take acid.  The schizophrenics (and schizoaffectives like Brian) are attracted to drugs as part of their disease.

While Brian was obviously not seriously brain damaged at this time (Today/SDSN/Pet sounds/smile) in terms of being able to work, it's interesting that he apparently did undergo a personality change that Marilyn noticed after the LSD.  What comes first, the mental illness or the drugs, is often an unanswerable question.

Good post, Bicyclerider. I think Syd Barrett falls into the first category you refer to. Supposedly, he had a "bad weekend", and re-emerged a different person. Certainly, Syd took more than one or two trips, but his decline happened very quickly.

What does come first, the mental illness or the drugs? Sometime I would like to see a poll taken among BB/BW fans, just for the heck of it. I am a big believer that if you could've removed the drugs from Brian's life, the non-prescription ones from 1965 - 1975, he would've been able to function at a very high level. I know it's not that cut and dry, the drugs and mental illness might be intertwined, it's complicated, but if you could just take one or the other away?

I wonder how the stay in the mental hospital in 1968 affected him. Remember, back then, mental illness wasn't as well understood as it is now, and I've never heard about  what kind of treatment he did receive during that period.

Excellent thoughts everyone!

I forgot about the 68 mental hospital thing Billy C.  That changes my timeline.  I don't think you seek help unless you're really, really in over your head.  And in 68, if we're to say it was less open and understood back then -- than just how f-ed up must he have been!?

So I take it back, -- when I said Brian was just unmotivated and spiritly crushed post Smile.  Sounds like he stepped over the rainbow with the micrograms.

But too, what Sheriff and B-rider said.......what comes first, mental illness or the droogs.  I don't know.  I think you're right Sheriff.......Brian without LSD probably would have just remained 'unique.'   He may certainly have gone 'eccentric.'  Hell, I would too...if I didn't have to go to the office 9-to-5 etc, etc.  If I could live in my castle, hanging with friends, cuttin' records when I felt 'inspired.'  Shoooot....I'd be one eccentric mo' fo'.

 :smokin

Still though.  I don't mean to joke.  It's really sad.

My personal belief in the chicken-or-egg question (that is, which came first, drugs or mental illness) is that mental illness comes first, in that it's what is already in the body. Brian's illnesses didn't come out of nowhere after and as a result of drug-taking. We know mental illness ran in his family: his mother talks about Murray staying in bed, for example. And we know he had some episodes prior to experimenting with harder drugs--wasn't the initial plane breakdown prior to taking LSD? I don't believe drugs made Brian mentally ill; I believe drugs exacerbated Brian's mental illness. They were probably also a way for him to cope with his own (ill- or undefined) mental illness in an era when such things were barely spoken about, much less competently, professionally handled.

Agreed.

One thing for certain, if you're standing on unbalanced teeter-totter already...making yourself extra dizzy ain't gonna fix much.

Toss in a few ridiculously over-the-top childhood beatings...

Yet if there is one common thread among people I know who have mental illness--of which there are quite a few, both family and friends--it's chemical abuse or at least some sort of self-medication. Very rare in my experience is someone who has one without the other.

I think you can trace Brian having problems to 1963. He was gaining a little weight (he was into health food in high school) and refusing to tour. I don't think he completely changed his personality for over a decade, and perhaps not completely until the second Landy regeme but you can trace the first minor warning signs that early. Though Brian did have a brief stay in 1968, I still think that overall he was a lot more normal from 67-70 or 71 then he ever would be again as far as awareness of things going on around him, sense of humor, obviously quality of work etc.

Actually, it was Pang's co-author, Henry Edwards, who thanked Landy.  All the "thank yous" were lumped together... he is (or was) a friend of Edwards

Addiction (substance abuse) is, according to DSM-IV (the chief handbook for psychiatrists) a psychiatric illness. A real alcoholic is ill, in the sense that he simply has to use, because otherwise he will get a fit or a delirium. That amounts to for instance an epileptic seizure with potential fatality, or psychotic episodes with extreme fears and delusions, the dreaded 'cold sweat'. One feels insects crawling under one's skin, or sees snakes curling around one's feet. So one needs the stuff to keep some kind of very fragile equilibrium. That is not to say that when using, one feels well. Concentration is shot, one rambles, talks incoherently, and sleep is totally disrupted; often impotence is also a result, and self-neglect; one rarely eats well, and so on.
I would say Brian, as a victim of a highly abusive childhood, began to suffer from general anxiety disorder, and social anxiety disorder already in his early adolescence. Think: panic attacks, heavy sweating, the tendency to retreat, perhaps phobias and/or obsessive-compulsive behavior. Or, when he felt some threat somewhere, a strong tendency to display childlike, goofy behavior (to escape from responsibility). Then, he could have discovered that alcohol and street drugs worked wonderful against these terrible feelings. That is how almost all addicts really get into abuse. A battered wife knows that half a bottle of gin takes the pain away for an hour or so.
Given all the stories, it's probable that his consumption of cocaine was massive. That alone can cause paranoid feelings for years on end (feeling persecuted, conspired against). Also, he himself admitted  several times that he was a very heavy drinker; he smoked much hashish. Then there's the LSD, that can (sometimes fatally) bring back earlier trauma, because that trauma becomes extremely vivid again. He also spoke of heroin use. And, of course, he was a chain smoker.
My contention is that Landy's enormous mistake was to quickly wean Brian off of street drugs, and all too quickly put him on a regimen of high doses of psychiatric drugs; in that way he could take Bri on nice trips around the world pretty soonish and present himself as a most successful healer.
I think he should have let Brian first do a long, long withdrawal which should have ended in, yes, no drugs at all for a couple of years. Then, with a bit of luck, the 'real' Brian at that time could have shone through. Instead, we got a puppetmaster and his disciple, which disciple went from some terrible addictions into another heavy drug regimen without anything in between. Not good.

(this is just my take on things, from what I read about it all over the years.)

Edwards  was thanked by Brian (I believe at the 1988 HOF induction ceremony) for being his "speechwriter"

I don't remember where I read this, or who said it (was it Reum again?), but they said that those around Brian say he was never the same after his stay in the mental hospital.  Anybody ever see (or read) "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"?

Does anyone know if Landy, being a psychologist and not a psychiatrist, was allowed to prescribe drugs at all? In most parts of the world psychologists aren't, because they aren't qualified M.D.s and 'psychologist' isn't a protected title there.

I recall from the BW 'autobiography' that Landy had two M.D.s in his service: dr. Susser and dr. Samuels. Did they simply carry out Landy's orders without ever questioning them?

It would be grievous if one psychologist and two M.D.s who weren't psychiatrists at all could, between the three of them, do pretty much what they liked without ever being double-checked and second-opinioned by a true psychiatrist... ???