The Smiley Smile Message Board

1981 is now posted...I advise you to check out AGD's great site http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs81.html ....I mention this not only because I researched the gigs, but also because I am aware that there are many gigs still missing-so if you know of any-please shout them out (that goes for earlier years too)....Don't be shy

I was at the Syracuse State Fair show on Sept. 2, 1981.  It was pouring rain and an outdoor concert.  I actually have a poor quality cassette of the show from a portable tape deck I smuggled in.  I remember that Dennis plowed through the segueway in the car medley (the 409, 509 part) and the band actually fell apart for about a minute trying to figure out how to start again.  Brian sang the first two lines of "Sloop John B" in a Mike Love imitation voice, then the last two as Wild Man Fischer.  I already knew enough about the band to appreciate what I was seeing...a fascinating train wreck.  It was a godawful show.

I'd love to hear more 1981 (or 1982) Brian anecdotes from the BB tours from anyone, has to have been the worst period of his life.

Well...To quote from the LA Times (July 20 1981) about a show at the Greek Theater "Brian was apparently annoyed by some bugs in the sound system. Whatever the cause, he suddenly bolted from the stage after croaking the first note of 'God Only Knows'.  As Johnston took up the lead vocal, Jardine raced into the wings after Brian. Both returned momentarily, and Brian finished the song. He then started to leave the stage again, only to be intercepted by his brother Dennis (who earlier had come to the rim of the stage and graciously waved his rear end at the crowd). Back at the piano, Brian took a mighty swipe at his mike stand and knocked it loudly to the floor. After the next song, he departed again, returning later for the final numbers....This public psychodrama made the Beach Boys charade of celebration ring completely hollow...The only visible argument against the group's packing it in tomorrow was the blissfully enthusiastic response of the crowd, which takes the prize as the most undemanding audience of the year."  And that is only half the review.....Sounds like a fun time....

Billboard gave a pretty similar review, only they said it was Jardine who took over on "GOK" and Johnston who ran backstage after Brian.  The Captain & Tenille (and I think Glen Super) joined the group for "Fun Fun Fun" (which the reviewer called "Run Run Run").  They said Dennis was so hoarse he could hardly talk.

I have always been interested in the 1981 period of The Beach Boys. The thing that seems weird to me is how the band could have gone from playing a GREAT show in Philadelphia the previous year, to the terrible trainwreck that was the Long Beach 7/4 show. Did Carl really make them that much better? It seems that without him there, nobody even TRIED to give a half decent show. Al's butchering of Wouldn't It Be Nice from the 7/4 show is downright embarrassing. Bobby Figueroa insisted on beating the hell out of anything in his path. Brian sometimes didn't even play the same song as the group.

I think the Long Beach Show was 7/5.  Brian and Dennis were by 1981 worse then ever and that made a difference. As far as why Al was playing worse he probably was dismayed at the drama and found it hard to care anymore.

Yep, Long Beach was 7/5. I KNEW that, too. That, my friends, is what you call a "brainfart".  ;D

Wasn't 1981 the year that Dennis was given his SEVERE beating? I wonder if it caused him to miss any shows?

I have the Walking On Water tape, the song with it is called Rings not Reins. What was the People Are Talking show? An interview?

Also Dean has told me that Mike and himself didn't do anything together until early 1982 when he and Jan broke up for several years due to Berry's use of cocaine.
The beating happened Superbowl Sunday 1-25-81 in between shows. He never could really speak or sing  properly again

There's a tape from 1981, post-Carl, where during an intro Brian can clearly be heard playing and singing a Spector song. And Alan can just as clearly be heard saying "what the f*** is Brian playing ?".  ;D

Oh those were the days. I was there for most of it. They once again climbed out of the abyss and got their act together. More than a few times.

I'm sure Brian was playing different tunes at the Knebworth gig in Britland the following year, too. That's how it struck me as a 16-year-old fan in the audience. Strange it didn't seem to make it to the DVD!

Why did Brian do that? Was this some kind of 'why do I have to sit here on stage, let me go home' thing or was he really that ... crazy?


And just for the paper, the January 14 session for "Stevie" @ Sounds Good Studio was just the horn overdub, the rest was already recorded in December 1980. Source: Garby Leon on the Blueboard

Well some of the people I have spoken too who were close to him at the time said it was his way of rebelling. It seems he thought it was funny, but perhaps his ahem "high" spirits played a role.

The guys must have virtually hated him for that kind of behavior, but judging from the state the Beach Boys were in by the early eighties, BW sure had every right to rebel. It's quite obvious that all three Wilson brothers backed out during that period in one way or another. There's lots of Long Beach footage on youtube and you can tell Brian wasn't exactly "into it", telling the TV host at one point that "this is the day that lasts forever". Always thought that part was equally hilarious and tragic.

Those 1981 greek shows in LA were after the july 5th show Long Beach show  + the band was much better..  I went in part to see if they were gonna improve the show..There also was an incident  at the show that was similar to 79 universal shows..Mike + Dennis got into it + the drums flew across the stage at Mike..... Dennis while introducing Bruce in his solo spot ..made some rude comments about Barry Mainilow standing atop the white piano.. And wiggled his but at audience.. The incident was after that.... BW was much better but it was clear they were in disarray + needed CW

I think Brian may have just been bored.  Peter Ames Carlin indicated in his book that Brian really wanted to be playing bass, and Carl forced him to the sidelines.  I originally found this hard to swallow but I've seen concert footage from 1978 where Brian is playing bass for the whole concert.  Brian is very animated and while he isn't as good as Ed Carter or JWG he's playing all the parts correctly, if dumbing them down a little.  Bass may have been more of a challenge for him, and more of a vital role in the band.

I'm not blaming Carl for taking Brian off bass -- it's a key instrument and a lot of damage can be done if it's not being reliably played -- but you can understand why Brian would be bored off his ass just plunking away at the piano.  I've seen another concert from 1980 -- it's on Youtube -- where the camera is near Brian's monitor and you can hear his piano loud and clear.  For the most part, he's playing everything right, if in his inimitable Brian four on the floor piano playing style.  So it's not like he wasn't capable of playing  the parts.

I've often wondered how Bruce Johnston -- who by all accounts is a first-rate keyboard player -- can stand just sitting onstage playing an inaudible keyboard.  It's clear from a careful viewing of some of the old concert footage that in many cases he's turning himself down out of the mix, just bringing it in for a few parts.  I realize he's just drawing a check at this point, but back in the late '60s and '70s he was a key part of the band on organ and bass.  It would make me nuts.

Tiny error in 1978: April 17 1978 says Pine Bluff AZ

Pine Bluff is in Arkansas = AR  (not AZ), along with the adjacent midwest dates

A 1981 nit to pick: November 28, 1981 Seattle OR

Seattle of course is in WA, not OR

I think that's probably quite true: there is a certain endless cycle downward here. We can't rely on you, so you lose interest and f*** up, so we can't rely on you, so you f*** up more, and so on. If he knew--and he had to know--he was just being set at the side of the stage so they could say "LOOK! It's [an inaudible and generally useless except for a few lines when we turn on his mic] BRIAN!" how is he supposed to pretend to be interested or feel even vaguely wanted? Would you be motivated? I wouldn't. I'm not saying Brian was in the right to let himself (however much control he had of himself; I certainly don't know, but I'd guess some) f*** around even more, but it does become an unfortunate cycle at some point.

All in all Brian being there from 1976-82 was a dysfunctional act by a dysfunctional family.

Brian has some fault because he showed up stoned so often. Of course Carl pulled him off bass, I am sure a lot of us have seen the 1977 footage where he leaps behind Mike gets in to an outstage shouting match and at the end of the song throws the bass at him. Brian should have tried to sing and play as well as he could and be sober. He was relatively clean in late 76 so it was his choice to start again. Still I do feel bad that he no longer had the guts to say no. It just shows you the the Brian of 76-82 was far worse then he had been before (except maybe 74-75) because he didn't want to go on stage except when he felt like it and didn't. Now he was just going along with what others told him if somewhat rebelliously.

Stephen Love and Landy must take a lot of the blame. They pushed Brian well before he was ready just to make themselves look good. The only thing I can say in their defense is perhaps they couldn't have realized how bad things would get.

The Beach Boys themselves got what they wanted, but lost what they had. Brian was back, but his performance helped derail their sound. None of them should have let Brian come back without contingency that he would fully particpate or not at all. Still I am sure every member felt good to have him there if only for old times sake. Dennis in particular seemed to get a lot of joy having Brian there. He may have hurt Brian by sharing his drugs, but he also seemed to be the most warm and loving towards him. Carl should have told Brian get into shape or you are off the stage. He should not have tolerated sub par performances. He put Brian in the background perhaps because he felt it would cold to ask him not to come. Wrong move because it made Brian seem like a sideshow attraction. Mike was at times condescending to Brian on stage, but he did have a right to be disappointed. He worked hard on stage and must have been truly dismayed that Brian wasn't trying.

I have no real malice against the group, they were trying to hold on to their fame, and maybe they thought it would help him. Brian was lost, perhaps he had nothing else he could think of to do. It's just sad that the worse case scenario played out instead of the best.

^ That's a really good post. I'd add that, while you said "[Carl] should not have tolerated sub par performances," neither should have anyone else who had an ear to hear them. Mike also--for all his many faults--was working his ass off to do a good show in the way that he knew how (for better or for worse). I think that by the "Brian is Back" campaign, there was just layer upon layer of strangeness that complicated the picture. It is, of course, a big part of why so many people find the story interesting. But from an actual, personal perspective, it is sad ... even pathetic. I find some of those clips from shows in the late 70s hard to watch, with Brian obviously sick. And yet, Dennis's obvious affection for his brother is beautiful to me. And even (the "villain") Mike has moments on film from those shows when I can't help but think all he is interested in is seeing whether Brian is OK. What a weird time it must have been to be among them: jealously, greed, love, hatred, anger, frustration, hope, optimism, pessimism ... not pretty.

My favourite moment on the Knebworth show is when Al leans over to Brian and you see him mouth something like, "How're you doing? Are you okay?".

I'm watching it now, and even after a billion (give or take a few hundred million) viewings, when Dennis kisses the back of Brian's head just before "God Only Knows," I'm honestly touched.

I am, obviously, a big BB fan.  But I think you have to point out that some of the friction was caused by the fact that there was a lot of frustration within the group about the increasing oldies only nature of the shows....Carl eventually surrendered to the inevitable...but I think he was fighting that in the late 70's-early 80s.  Mike seems to have found peace with the group becoming an oldies act much sooner than Carl.  I think as a musician it is hard to play the same stuff over and over again and make it fresh....Also it seems that once Carl straightened out his life, he kept his distance from his brothers. Since he was not close to Mike at that period of time-this left him kind of isolated...The fact that all the BBs were kind of in their own separate heads and didn't really connect except onstage anymore-can't have helped...In a way 1981 was the end of the original BBs-when Carl returned in May 1982 it was oldies all the way from then on...

I agree with what you have to say completely. Ian I also agree about 1980 being the end in some ways. Just looking at the 1981 recording sessions or lack thereof show a band who gave up. I may place the true end of them as a real group back to the 1977 breakup. They never all came together after that.

Brian probably was experiencing some boredom, but why didn't he do something about it? Like singing! I saw a number of concerts during that period 1978-1982, and Brian barely opened his mouth. He sang one or two leads, and contributed hardly any background vocals.  Even on some versions of "Sloop John B", Brian sang the opening part, but Carl picked up the "Poor cook he caught the fits" part. Either Brian was too bored to sing, or he couldn't keep up with the pace. Brian used to sit at Bruce's electric piano to play "Help Me Rhonda", showing no emotion, sitting there like Sparks' Ron Mael. Then, he would scurry back behind his piano. Brian also didn't utter a syllable; a simple "thank you" would've gone a long way. And, Brian was usually the first one off the stage, sometimes while "Fun Fun Fun" was still playing. If he was bored by being relegated to the piano, he certainly could've found other ways to contribute.

In my opinion, Carl probably HAD to take Brian off of the bass. First, I doubt that Brian strongly objected to it; I don't think he cared too much about anything at that time. And second, there is no way Brian would've been able (stamina and concentration-wise) to play the bass on twenty-something songs every show. Especially with Dennis being as eratic as he was on the drums. And thirdly, Carl, as much as anybody, wanted Brian to succeed. It must've killed him, but he had to do it for the betterment of the sound.

I think most of Brian's behavior in that 1981-82 period can be attributed to drugs. After being institutionalized in 1978 (date?), Brian appeared to be, and I hate to use this phrase, coming back. His TV appearances in 1980 showed a fairly relaxed, lucid, and humorous Brian. But, unfortunately, by 1981, he was sliding back. I will say that I don't think his 1981 vocals were as bad as some are making them out to be. His voice was not raspy, and he appeared at least to be trying to "sing", holding his notes longer....

I don't disagree with you. As I said, while I can in a way understand what might have helped lead to Brian's continued downfall, I can also absolutely understand the other band members trying to minimize his potential for damage to nightly shows. Also, ditto on the 1981 shows. Yeah, there are awful moments. But the '81 Long Beach "God Only Knows" shows him singing pretty well, a note or two notwithstanding. That's better than plenty of shows before and after.

I must say that I find this one of the more interesting threads on this message board. Ok, I have a question about Brian from this period. Who's descision was it for Brian to sing during this period? I know that he would probably have been the obvious choice for God Only Knows or Don't Worry Baby. His voice is probably the closest to Carl's. But the group HAD to have known deep down that Brian just couldn't handle it like he used to. Why did they continue to let him sing? I wonder what Brian thought about it? Was he the one who wanted to sing? Why would he still try something like Don't Worry Baby? There is a moment during that song from the Long Beach footage, where the camera is on Bruce, and he's OBVOUSLY upset about what he's seeing and hearing. Why didn't he or Al try to "rescue" Brian by taking over the lead?

a great artifact from the time discussed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBo5bMAu_gc

I know this has been discussed here before, but does anyone have any idea what exactly happened at the end of "Surfer Girl"? You can see Carl, looking irritated, trying to walk up to Mike... Dennis sees this and holds him back... And then you can see Al shaking Dennis's hand like he's saying "Good job".

Carl always had an idea of what sounded good, perhaps as instinctive on stage as Brian was in the studio.

My impression is that with Carl in the band there was always a musical base to the group.

Damn shame that he's missed the general resurgence in the BB back catalogue of the last 10 years.

Who knows if he could have been a part of this? I'm not saying he should have left the touring band, but he would have had far more creative opportunities as a solo performer or with Brian/Al.

My feeling is that there would have been a movement to "rescue" him at some point, whether or not he realised that he needed rescuing from the guaranteed payouts at county shows and the like.

Remember, Carl had his chance for "more creative opportunities as a solo performer" in the early 1980's. I believe his words were, and I'm paraphrasing "I want to step away from the restrictions of The Beach Boys and do some things with a harder edge, a rockier edge." Or something to that effect. He did "Carl Wilson" and "Youngblood".

If Carl would've lived, he would've had the opportunity to continue his solo endeavors on the side. Hell, everybody else did! Even though they had/have problems getting them released. I don't think Carl would've left The Beach Boys to join Brian because of $$$$$$. That was always the driving factor that kept the individual beached boys coming back to The Beach Boys. Actually, if Carl had lived, it wouldn't surprised me if Brian went back to the Beach Boys....

 I don't think Carl would've left The Beach Boys to join Brian because of $$$$$$. That was always the driving factor that kept the individual beached boys coming back to The Beach Boys. Actually, if Carl had lived, it wouldn't surprised me if Brian went back to the Beach Boys....

Hmmm......I have always wondered though, if Carl had lived, and Al and Mike's relationship had turned sour enough for Al to leave, and Brian did his thing as he's done, (Al teams up with Brian for shows), would there be more $$$$$ seeing Brian, Al, and Carl or Mike, Bruce and Carl?  Of course that would really hinge on whether or not Al left, which is unlikely.  He probably would have put up with Mike as long as Carl was in the band.  But if he didn't, I think things would have gotten interesting.  If Carl did join Al and Brian, who would have the better right to the name "The Beach Boys"?  Three original members (including two Wilson's) or one original member and a 60's add on?  Perhaps a judge would have given the name and rights to Brian, Carl, and Al?????

All BIG 'what ifs', but interesting to ponder.

That would be really annoying if there was one group of Brian, Carl & Al and another of Mike & Bruce. The former would probably get the name, but I don't think it'd ever be split up that way. Mike, Bruce, Carl and Al would all be in the same band... I don't know what would've happened with Dave's resurgence if both Carl and Al were still in the band, though.

I'm pretty sure Al was kicked out of the Beach Boys as opposed to leaving, though, but if Carl were still alive, Mike wouldn't've had the authority to do so.

There's a difference ?  ;D

It's interesting to compare the 1977 live Brian to the 1981 live Brian:
I'm using my basis from the concert at Largo I have on DVD....
-Brian audibly plays piano on some of the songs (especially "Airplane," which he comes in early on), and his parts are definitely fitting with the key and tempo of the songs.
-He also plays a high boogie woogie phrase in between most of the songs, and it's cool; Al even remarks before "In My Room," "yeah Brian, play that boogie woogie." He also stops before most of the songs start, literally right before the intro of "California Girls," as if it was leading to it.
-Also, he sings with lots of feeling; his vocals aren't particularly good but he looks like he's enjoying himself. He gives a huge smile and stands up with his arms up after Mike introduces him. Right before the encore, he goes to center stage, gets a microphone, tells the rest of the band to hold it, and introduces Mike Love.

The 1977 Brian was a hugely inconsistant one, but a fascinating one and probably the last time he was the real Brian for a long time (at least seven years I'd estimate). He made a terrific album that was scrapped, Adult/Child, and there's stories I've heard about him being animated and sounding good in concert in '77.

The 1981 Brian was stiff and just a train-wreck on stage. Although I haven't heard the 1981 studio material and enjoy "Stevie," his songs were probably very poor as was his voice (I can't stand "Night Blooming Jasmine," the vocal at least). 1981 and 1982 were the worst years ever for Brian.

I meant kicked out as opposed to leaving.

Actually I think his voice on Night Blooming Jasmine was pretty good. The cocaine tape is rough but also have him singing with a lot of feeling. He's much smoother today and in many ways better, but his expressiveness was more or less lost after Landy came back. That said on stage Brian was at his worst to me in 1981-82. Especially vocally. One track that is really bad is from 1978 and called I'm Begging You Please. I never heard him ever sing that bad.

You know, I really wish that Brian would play "Oh Lord" at his current shows. I know that he can't hit any real high notes, but I bet his "mature" voice of today would go really well with the song.

Our roads split about "Jasmine" and the Landy era, but I'm right with you on "I'm Begging You Please," a decent song ruined by the vocal.

I thought that I'm Begging You Please was much earlier than 1978? For some reason, I seem to remember somebody saying that the date for it was 1975.

So did I... until someone who knows much better than I told me different. Originally it was part of the Love You demos tape that did the collectors rounds in the early 80s, so i guess people assumed.

That's actually the first time I heard it. It was the last song on a bootleg of a bunch of Love You demos.

Going back a little bit to my question about Brian's voice...who had him sing Don't Worry Baby, and a few other songs? Did the group have him do it? Or did Brian himself want to sing? I'm just wondering why nobody tried to stop him at some point during the 1981 tour. Al never had a GREAT falsetto, but he could pull off Don't Worry Baby if he tried hard enough. He did it in 1971-74(?), so why didn't he take over the lead during the 1981-82 tour?

I have another question for Andrew, or Ian. During the research for the 1981 entry on Andrew's site, was there any information unearthed about the infamous "cocaine tapes"? Were any studio sheets(I forget what they're called) found?