The Smiley Smile Message Board

Listen Thoughts of You and Are You Real:  these songs in a first moment have a lower volume, and later...a higher gain.
Thoughts of You - before 2nd part (first time of piano riff sound lower...second time of piano riff sounds higher)
Are You Real - half chorus sounds lower..other half sounds higher

Can't you just enjoy the set? There's already rumours of the thing being recalled because someone finds some parts of the booklet objectionable. God forbid we wouldn't want the big wigs to think that their mastering job is subpar, too. :)

I have not seen any substantiation of that booklet rumor, and I've heard nothing from Sony or anyone else about it.

I know what yer saying. Although I don't mind the shift on the new Thought's of You, it definitely sounds different; almost forced.


 :violin
Who cares, this is a forum to discuss. The Bigwigs took how many years to put this stuff out? If the mastering sounds weird then let's bring it up.

What was objectionable in the booklet?

Astute observation, Sherlock.


 :jedi

Did it ever occur to you that it took so many years because reissuing Dennis' work not only just had to be DONE, but done CORRECTLY? It's called respect for the artist. Dennis' work commanded it and, above all, deserved it. Back in 2001 if I heard a rumour "hey, POB is going to be reissued" I'd laugh. The situation back then was a mess of epic proportions. Now it's 2008, and WE HAVE IT IN OUR HANDS. My argument is this...can't we just enjoy what we have and soak it in? This was something that was, up until recently, considered a "hell freezes over" situation.

When you're a Beach Boys fan in 2008, (and many of us by now, even the new ones, are jaded and cynical at that), you tend to just accept the whole package as it is, knowing just how hard it is to even come across a new bootleg of an unreleased track, let alone an actual official release. If these are indeed mastering errors that are mentioned, then it surely would be reissued with a better job done on it, although I don't know how much you can improve on this already amazing release beyond adding more tracks to it, but that's for another release.

What I'm getting at is this....let's just enjoy it. Live in the moment. We actually can buy POB AND a considerable amount of Dennis' other solo works. It's not cause for nitpicking, it's cause for celebration. The impossible became possible. Someone was on our side. Let's be thankful.

I agree with you, noname. alan james was just making a point; he wasn't being critical about the material or Dennis (but what if he was?). I was surprised at a moderator's response of "Can't you just enjoy the set?", and the sarcasm of "Astute observation, Sherlock". If you can't discuss these topics (the mastering of POB) on a Beach Boys' message board, where can you discuss it?

Nitpicking is what we do.  We also buy these new releases of BB product, which to me entitles us to discuss and criticize as we see fit.  If someone mastered a song completely different from the original that was approved by Dennis, for example making a huge volume shift in the middle of the song, I find that interesting and would like to hear from the producers of the set why that mastering decision was made.  It's not a sign we're ungrateful for this release - on the contrary it shows how much we care about the music.

Valid point, however consider this:  I wonder if the original 1/4" stereo mixdown tape HAD that volume shift, but it was smoothed out for the original vinyl release (so as not to result in styluses jumping out of the grooves), but left "intact" for this Legacy release...remember, CDs can handle wide dynamic divergences much better than vinyl, and the 1991 POB CD was mastered from a heavily-limited copy tape (probably one intended for vinyl or cassette mastering), which is why that volume change isn't on that version.  I haven't heard the 2008 blue vinyl release yet to see what that's like, but I'm just wondering if this is the case, and a valid explanation?

I think it was done intentionally so the producers could lurk and laugh at the responses from people on message boards.

Ummm...like I said two posts above your question...there is no substantiation of that booklet rumor, and I've heard nothing from Sony or anyone else about it.

Why do you think this is a "mastering problem"?

It would be interesting to know if that effect is on the master tape. Could somebody please invite Vic Anesini to this board? :) On the Joe Gastwirt CD, the song starts at a much higher volume and stays constant. Reportedly, the Gastwirt CD was mastered from the LP cutting tape. I just compared the two, and Thoughts Of You on the Gastwirt CD is very compressed during the middle part, almost painful to listen to. The version on the new release is a big improvement and sounds spectacular.

My guess is that the new release reflects what is on the master tape. The dynamic range is HUGE, probably too huge for a typical LP.

Here's the waveform of the newly mastered CD version of Thoughts Of You:

(http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5673/toycdpv8.th.jpg) (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toycdpv8.jpg)

Here's the waveform from a needledrop I did of an original pressing of the vinyl:

(http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5002/toyvinylvp9.th.jpg) (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toyvinylvp9.jpg)

And here's the 1990 CD's waveform:

(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9308/toy1990vq1.th.jpg) (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toy1990vq1.jpg)

The new CD is essentially identical to the vinyl - vinyl CAN handle the dynamics. The 1990 CD is very limited.
Therefore the new CD seems to be a very good representation of the master tapes.

Well that answers the question - this was an intentional Dennis approved volume change, which Gastwirt squashed for the original CD release.  Another home run for the POB rerelease team!

Yep.