The Smiley Smile Message Board

paste magazine said:

The Top 10

10. Prince
9. Joni Mitchell
8. Elvis Costello
7. Brian Wilson (The Beach Boys)
6. Leonard Cohen
5. Paul McCartney (The Beatles, Wings)
4. Tom Waits & Kathleen Brennan
3. Bruce Springsteen
2. Neil Young (Buffalo Sprinfield, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young)
1. Bob Dylan


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Thoughts?

Bacharach? Lennon? Lane or Marriott? Townshend? Davies? Weller? Morrissey? Elton John? Stevie Wonder?

I know, I know, these rankings are stupid and subjective... but where's Paul Simon?

I'm assuming the parameters are : rock and roll and still living.

The above-mentioned people all deserve mention, of course ... but then we'd be saying, "What!? No Waits, McCartney, Cohen or Young?" Sometimes you just can't win. Anyway, good for Brian (although it would have been more a surprise if he weren't included, in my opinion).

50 cent deserves a spot on that list.

May I add Leiber&Stoller ? But you can't take those lists serious, so it's just nice to see Brian....

Tom Waits's best stuff was written without Brennan.

And Bruce Springsteen? Yuck. I somehow get Paste in the mail every month (I never signed up for it), but I usually just take the CD and toss the magazine.

I feel exactly the opposite. I think his best stuff begins with swordfishtrombones and Rain Dogs, and then the early 90s material, the two early 00s albums and Orphans. And I suppose that in a nutshell is a pretty good example of why no list can ever make everyone happy.

Cohen and Waits/Brennan ahead of Brian?? Nah!

Totally depends on what a person wants out of a song. In some ways, I definitely take both Waits and Cohen over Brian. In others, not even close. Songs aren't one thing for one person, but many things to anyone.

Here's the rest of the list if anyone is interested



50. Public Enemy (Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Hank Shocklee, Eric Sadler, et al)
49. Cat Stevens
48. Gillian Welch & David Rawlings
47. Sufjan Stevens
46. David Byrne (Talking Heads)
45. Jackson Browne
44. Al Green
43. Ryan Adams (Whiskeytown)
42. Loretta Lynn
41. Ray Davies (The Kinks)

40. Burt Bacharach & Hal David
39. Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, John Bonham)
38. Kris Kristofferson
37. Smokey Robinson
36. Beck Hansen
35. Steve Earle
34. John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival)
33. Pete Townshend (The Who)
32. Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller
31. Carole King

30. John Prine
29. Tom Petty
28. Robbie Robertson (The Band)
27. Radiohead (Thom Yorke, Jonny Greenwood, Colin Greenwood, Ed O'Brien, Phil Selway)
26. R.E.M. (Peter Buck, Bill Berry, Mike Mills, Michael Stipe)
25. Chuck Berry
24. Jeff Tweedy (Wilco, Uncle Tupelo, Golden Smog, Loose Fur, etc.)
23. Elton John & Bernie Taupin
22. Lucinda Williams
21. Lou Reed (Velvet Underground)

20. Van Morrison
19. Patty Griffin
18. U2 (Bono, The Edge, Larry Mullen Jr., Adam Clayton)
17. Holland-Dozier-Holland
16. David Bowie
15. Willie Nelson
14. Stevie Wonder
13. Paul Simon
12. Mick Jagger & Keith Richards (The Rolling Stones
11. Randy Newman

That is actually a pretty good list.    Included John Prine.   Impressive.

Again, all lists are subjective, but John Lennon is not this list at all. I'm not saying he's the best songwriter ever, but especially since Paul McCartney placed so high, I can't believe that whoever compiled this list thinks that all these songwriters are better than John Lennon.

Something my sister would say  ::)

Antonio Carlos Jobim?

Cole Porter?

Bob Dorough?

Serge Gainsbourg?

Jimmy Webb?

Michel Legrand?

Milton Nascimento?

I hate it when rednecks compile lists of anything other than the top rednecks.  How embarrassing for the compilers...

What the hell is Paste Magazine? Never heard of it.

Springsteen doesn't deserve to be in a top 100, Dylan does not belong in the top 3 and McCartney should be no. 1. Amen.

It's a pretty popular music magazine, somewhat indie leaning but not entirely. Their "features" section at the moment includes Sam Phillips, Of Montreal, Fleet Foxes, Cassandra Wilson, Izza Kizza, so it covers some stylistic ground.

carl r - Nice mention for the great Ronnie Lane!!  He was the first person that came to my mind when I read the title for this thread.  A great and highly overlooked songwriter - definately one of the best!! 

When I hear 'songwriter', I think of the person who wrote the lyrics, not necessarily the music - but maybe I am wrong. 

Considering that much of Brian's best work has been a collaborative effort, isn't there some 'songwriting' credit to be shared with the likes of Love, Asher, VDP, and Landy?

(editor's note:  just kidding on the Landy part!!!)

There really could be, yes, because they're all songwriters. But I suppose when making a "greats" list, the creators are keeping in mind the big picture. Brian co-wrote great music with a lot of people, while those people didn't necessarily co-write great music without Brian. So the greatness part may come in with B. Wilson more than, oh, E. Landy! (But really, Mike Love and Tony Asher do deserve a lot of credit for co-writing brilliant material, if not necessarily as much brilliant material as Brian.)

Hank Williams. To me, him and Brian can't be beat as far as their contributions and impact on American music go. And how about Dennis???

I can't imaging Dennis cracking my top 100 songwriters.

Top ten songwriters (in no particular order):

Brian Wilson
Mike Love
Carl Wilson
Dennis Wilson
Al Jardine
Bruce Johnston
Blondie Chaplin
Ricky Fataar
David Marks
Glen Campbell

OK, now here are mine. No particular order. I've included jazz songwriters, but not "classical," as I don't think those works qualify as songs. Brian Wilson, Thelonious Monk, Duke Ellington, Bob Dylan, Lou Reed, Tom Waits, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Freddie Mercury, David-Ivar Herman Dune. John Darnielle, Elvis Costello, Leonard Cohen, Bruce Springsteen, Frank Zappa, Jeff Tweedy, John Ringhofer, Stuart Murdoch, Mark Everett, Prince and Matthew Friedberger are hanging around the perimeter looking for an in. And a dozen or so people I've no doubt forgotten are waiting for me in the alley to beat me over the head.

Not to derail, but here are mine: 1. P. McCartney 2. J. Lennon 3. B. Wilson 4. N. Young 5. E. John 6. R. Zimmerman 7. L. Buckingham 8. C. McVie 9. L. Reed 10. D. Wilson

Fagen/Becker, Wayne Coyne, Nick Cave (primarily lyricist), George Harrison, Jagger/Richards and Ray Davies came very close.

Paste's list just reads like some indie music journalists top 50...

I agree w/CCC - no Hank Williams = no credibility to the list in my mind. Even Leonard Cohen himself said HW sits atop the Tower of Song

I love how nobody has objected to Prince being in the Top 10.

He's the second greatest songwriter of all time in my opinion.

IMO Lennon-McCartney should be listed as a team and as individuals.  Brian Wilson definatley in the top 3.  Dylan I can take in the top tier but frankly Joni Mitchell should be way higher than listed.  Where was Carole King?

A boring list, I know:

1. Brian Wilson
2. Paul McCartney
3. Bob Dylan
4. Chuck Berry
5. Ray Davies
6. Paul Simon
7. Ron Mael
8. Willie Nelson
9. Robby Krieger
10. Burt Bacharach

I like a boring list if it's an honest list. A person shouldn't worry about too popular, too unpopular, too obscure, too indie, not indie, too male-dominated, too white, too black, too classic rock, or whatever. It should look like your favorite songwriters' names. Period.

My list wasn't honest at all ;D

Leiber and Stoller
Brian Wilson
Dennis Wilson
Bob Dylan
John Lennon
Paul McCartney
Pete Townshend
Ike Turner
James Brown
Chuck Berry

I think all of the Beach Boys were good writers but Brian and Dennis stand out.

My top tier of favourite songwriters as opposed to who I think would/should be in a greatest list would be;

Freddie Mercury
Brian Wilson
Brian May
Paul McCartney
Nick Lowe
John Deacon
Neil Hannon
Page/Plant
Gabriel/Hackett/Rutherford/Banks/Collins (early Genesis lineup)

Runners up would be Pete Townsend, John Cale, Ray Davies, Prince, Lou Reed, Becker/Fagen, Jagger/Richards, Lindsey Buckingham, Harry Nilsson, Gene Clark, Neil Young

^ What, no Roger Taylor?  ;)

Oh alright, I should stick him in there too, but not counting anything he's done in the last 20 years.

I actually disliked almost all of his songs from beginning to end. And his voice, for that matter. Like his drumming, though. And his hair.

I'm not fussed on his early stuff but his stuff from 80-82 (Basically The Game, Hot Space and Fun in Space) I think is great, Coming Soon especially is a much maligned track (hated by some Queen fans) but I love it!