The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've been listening to the American Spring stuff a lot over the past few weeks, and I really like it. Even if Brian was only 25% involved, that's quite a 25%, and David Sandler also did a very good job. I have a few questions: (I haven't been around this board a long time (but have been around similar BB boards for a decent time) so please excuse me if they have been already asked)

Can someone please tell me which Rovell sings on which cut on the American Spring album? (I find their voices hard to seperate.)

I've heard that David Sandler is also singing on the LP, but is it certain that Brian is singing the "I remember" part on "Tennessee Waltz" and the "well it rained on the mountain, the mountain of love" on "Sweet Mountain"? Those sound like Brian to these ears.

Was Dennis involved in any way with their recordings of "Forever" or "Slip on Through"?

And finally, I know when, but does anybody exactly know why Brian & Spring recorded in the Chicken Coop in early '73 (also might be late '72)? Did they know the owners?

i thought brian and mike were on sweet mountain

The only track Diane has a solo lead on is "Everybody".

I'll get back with the bvs - as for the Iowa sessions, the studio belonged to a friend of a friend.

This might be obvious to most, but the Beach Boys sing backup on Good Time.

And that's Marilyn singing lead on all the tracks? Why does she sound so different on Let's Put Our Hearts Together?

Yeah she is a lot worse on that. Fallin In Love was the 1973 single b side and that's Diane. Diane did co sing a few songs namely Sweet Mountain, and from 1973 Had To Phone Ya. SHe also sings It's Like Heaven. Other then the obvious Good Time, I hear Carl on Forever as well as Brian. Brian also can be heard on Tennessee, Thinkin', Sweet Mountain (low and high parts), and Everybody.

I like Marilyn's vocal on "Let's Put Our Hearts Together". That's seems like a tough song to sing, a lot of changes. Actually, I always thought Marilyn's voice was better than she got credit for. And Carnie's...

I agree with you on LPOHT. I know some people don't like that song but I find it quite moving and I like Marilyn's voice on it too. I too think Marilyn's voice is better than most people give her credit for. Of course it's not as good as any of the Beach Boys or anything, but then again not many people can sing like Carl, Brian etc..

I think Marilyn's voice is fine, but not for recording. It's like if I made a record, or a neighbor made a record. The voice can sing in tune, but it isn't particularly special. To me, a professional singer should have a good voice, except, you know, if the song is exceptional or the genre doesn't require it (like Bob Dylan).

I think Carnie's voice is better than Marilyn's. It has something that's soothing and nice to listen to. Unfortunately Carnie's music is usually too bland for my taste. Maybe she needs a new producer and new material.

Thanks for the responses--I'm surprised that it's Marilyn on the majority of the tracks too-though I can't deny she has a nice voice. The only track which I don't particularly like Marilyn's voice is "Tennessee Waltz" where she reaches for the higher note at the beginning ("to the tenn-a-see waltz"), but I also like Diane's voice on "Everybody."

I'm a fan of the American Spring album, the only track I don't care for is the slowed down "This Whole World," kinda sucks the life out of the song...

From the Rhino CD credits:

Everybody - bvs, Marilyn & Brian
Thinkin' 'Bout You Bay - bvs, Diane  & Brian
Mama Said - bvs, Marilyn & Diane
Forever - bvs, Diane & Carl (and an uncredited Brian)
Good Time - bvs, Marilyn, Diane & The Beach Boys
Now That Everything's Been said - bvs, Marilyn, Diane & David Sandler
Down Home - bvs, Diane & Jack Rieley
This Whole World - bvs, Marilyn, Diane & David Sandler
Awake - bvs, Diane
Sweet Mountain -  bvs, Marilyn & Diane (and an uncredited Brian)
Superstar -  bvs, Marilyn & Diane
Tennessee Waltz - bvs, Diane & Brian (note: Brian plays everything onnthis track)

I don't think either Marilyn or Diane sing on pitch; they sing slightly flat.  Their voices are also thin, weak, and nasal.  It makes it hard to listen to Spring.  I can tolerate the Honeys a little more because Ginger can sing.    Carnie is a better singer than Marilyn.  She has a pleasant alto.

Also, Brian evidently wrote out the horn parts for "Good Time" while having a conversation with David Sandler (according to "Catch a Wave").

Another question, has Brian said anything about the American Spring project in recent years (or, for that matter, after it's release)?

I like their voices myself I think they have a nice innocent sound.

I absolutely love Marilyn and Diane's singing on the Spring album.  Many of the songs on that album have been absolute favorites of mine since the album's release in 1972.  The expanded 1988 CD added two more songs that I totally enjoy.  When I mentioned to Marilyn (during the Wilson-Philips days) that I thought Carnie sounded a lot like her, she agreed, and said she thought Wendy sounded a lot like Brian.

Shortly after the release of the Spring album in May 1972, I was listening to the Wolfman Jack show on KDAY, Los Angeles, (live, not on tape or syndicated at that time) when Brian Wilson called in.  He sounded like a wide-eyed little kid and, when referring to the Spring album, kept repeating, "It's better than Pet Sounds, Wolfman."

Not sure where I heard this, but in recent years a fan brought the American Spring album to one of Brian's signings. Brian asked if he could have it.  I guess he doesn't have a copy.

Classic!

Would love to hear BW & company do "Sweet Mountain," but I've got about 100 rarities that I dream of BW playing...

Who's the male voice in Good Time that sings on that part that's not in the BBs version?

Do you mean the Turn On Your Radio line? It sounds like Mike or more probably Sandler. Sandler can be heard on Thinkin About My Baby pretty clear.

If it's Brian, it's the first song his voice changes in the rough 15 BIG ONES direction. But since he didn't sound like that on any other recordings until 1975, I tend to believe that could be David Sandler...


I've read that too, very funny. It shoud be noted that the fan didn't give it to Brian. He also mentioned how much he loved the voices of M & D.

It's Brian, according to both Marilyn and Steve Desper when I asked them at different times (1985/1993). It's also Brian on the 2nd response vocal in the last verse.

As for the 'male' voice in "Good Time", all I hear is one of the girls singling low, double tracked.

Wasn't the album - it was a pic sleeve promo of the first single.  ;D

It sounds like Brian on the low part of Sweet Mountain but note he is not hoarse. He is putting on a voice trying to do a do wop type deal.  When I spoke to him I asked him about his voice changing and he said that part of it was wanting to try something new. So even when he had basically his full range , it seems like he was exprimenting with a "manly" tone.

That's how I remembered it, and that this person wrote that "Tennessee Waltz" was a song on this single. I checked your site and couldn't find a single with TW and thought my memory was wrong.

It was a European release. The fan in question is Michael Wiberg from Sweden, now forever famous as the guy who said "No" to Brian Wilson.  ;D

I'd love to finally hear this album.  Anyone willing to pm to discuss?

I have heard a piece called , I think, Snowflakes Fall...or something like that... 

"Snowflakes" was recorded after Spring was released, late 1972/early 1973 in the famous chicken coop studio in Ft. Dodge IA, along with the Columbia 45 and the original version of "Had To Phone Ya".

Great album. When I met Marilyn, I asked her what kind of seeds they gave away with the original album. She laughed and said "spring flowers!" and asked if I had a copy with the seeds, which I don't, then said she still has hers kicking around somewhere and that she never planted the seeds. Saw her, Diane & Ginger sing that night and to my ears they sung nicely and in key. Charlotte Cooper, on the other hand, was noticeably off key that night and I thought the Honeys bvs were far better. But I digress...

Seeds I never heard that before.

Hate to backtrack, but on the subject of Brian's gruff voice during this period, I really think that he was controlling at least part of it. When he wanted a "manly" sound, he used it. Yes, there was vocal deterioration, some intentional and some not, during 1974-1976, with lots of cocaine and cigarettes. But, he still turned it on and off in 1976: listen to "Airplane," he does a fairly tender falsetto on the refrains, and then at the "down down, on the ground" part he's real gruff and "manly."

I have to disagree with you: all of his falsettos from 15BO-era onward sound to me very different than his earlier voice.

Brian signed my 45 of Sweet Mountain last year and he sure looked at it for a good long while before he signed it. I wonder if it bought back any memories.

I don't disagree with that, I also hear a marked difference on his post-1973 falsettos. But what I was saying was he evidently had the ability to switch to a gruffer-manly tone during the 15 Big Ones, Love You era, while he still possessed a small portion of his sweeter voice. I mean, listening to the "Clouds in the sky" part of "Airplane" and then the "down down, on the ground" part, it's two different "characters" for lack of a better word.

So I put my money on Brian for "it rained on the mountain..."

Yeah, I think it was limited to promo copies. But I heard about it and always wondered what the mystery seeds could have been - knowing Brian at the time I thought they might have been pot! Ha, anyways, Marilyn was standing right next to me for quite a while and well, I couldn't resist inquiring

You've Lost That Loving Feeling has him doing the two voices too, but yes I can't compare anything from the era to his pre 1975 vocals.

I've heard of the seeds things before, but it was another band I had saw live, an experiemental group from MI called Anathallo, anyone heard of them?  The album package was quite nice.

I thought the name Spring and the seeds giveaway were very creative and very Brian. It's also interesting in that you can see the beginnings of Brian's Love You style here. A lot of the songs feature the piano prominently, and there is a heavier use of synthesizers. If you listen to "Everybody", you can hear the farting snyth bass Brian used all over Love You, just here, it's more subdued. I'm pretty sure that farting synth bass is doubling a real bass on "Sweet Mountain", too. "It's Like Heaven" is another really Brian production, too, that acts as a precursor to Love You. You also hear some of the oddly tuned piano sound Brian was so fond of in the late '60s on some of the songs, like "Tennessee Waltz". And how about the ending of "This Whole World" on the Spring album? So absolutely odd... I wonder if it was Brian's handiwork? The rest of the track, with that rolling karaoke style piano, sure doesn't sound like Brian. Plus, there's that discoey sounding bridge. It's such a strange version of the song.

I like their voices because they sound so unproffessional in a way. There's something sort of sexy about it--they sound like my ex-girlfriend when she used to sing in another room when she didn't know I was there. They have character. Love that album.

Also, I am aware that Brian didn't produce a lot of the album. That Sadler guy did a lot of work. But I'm inclined to agree with that quote that Brian did at least 25% of the work, and that 25% is very noticeable. With 5% Brian, the whole album probably would've sounded like "Now That Everything's Been Said".

Good description they have a kind of sexy innocence to their voices.

The promo package came in a mailer which contained the LP( sealed, no promo notation) , plus a photo & press folder,sealed in a glossy white Gatefold with nothing other than the UA Logo on the back and the Pack of seeds on the front. The frontof the mailer shows "Spring" at the top , a printed background mailing label, and some spilled seeds in the foreground;  .  Hope you like this!

  
(http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww302/bgasnow/P1010009.jpg)  (http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww302/bgasnow/scan0001-2.jpg)

Not really a precursor, "It's Like Heaven" was recorded around 1977 or '78 during the short lived Am Spring revival.