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I'm just curious if there is any information available on the Sunflower outtakes that have never seen release.  To my knowledge this would be Carnival, What Can The Matter Be?, You Never Give Me Your Money, I'm Going Your Way, and Walkin' (the only one I really know anything about).  I also came across one more as a bonus on a lyric page, but the name escapes and I can't seem to find it.  Its writing credit was Brian Wilson and another person which was complete unknown to me.

I think you'd have to include the early "Back Home," at least. Is the first "Big Sur" that old, or was that nearer "Surf's Up"? Then of course there's the big batch of tunes from this era that were released on later albums and compilation albums.

Carnival aka Over The Waves is IIRC about a minute long, with the guys signing wordless harmonies. It's that old circus-y waltzy theme.

You Never Give Your Money is apparently not only instrumental, but just played on the keyboard.

I'm Going Your Way is a Denny rocker which is said to be like Slip On Through. I think it's available on bootleg but I've not got it.

Was the other guy David Sandler? Is the song Awake?

I think it's nearer Surf's Up, like mid-1970.

Then there's the alternate/early version of "Add Some Music" ... with alternate lyrics  :o

If only Sunflower would get the proper reissue + bonus tracks treatment it so deserves...

Carnival, I'm Going Your Way, and Walkin' are all on boots. I've never even heard of those other 2 songs, though. The Sunflower outtakes I know of (and have heard), are Carnival, I'm Going Your Way, It's a New Day, Lady, Sound of Free, Soulful Old Man Sunshine, Loop De Loop, Good Time, Big Sur, a take of Slip on Through with just drums, Walkin', Back Home, alternate versions of Add Some Music and Tears in the Morning, the Wild Honey-era version of Cool Cool Water, I Just Got My Pay, When Girls Get Together, HELP Is On The Way, Games Two Can Play, and probably a couple others whose names have slipped my mind at the moment.

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs69.html
http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs70.html

Those tracks were worked in time for a Sunflower release. Different levels of completion, though:

San Miguel
What Can The Matter Be?
Loop de Loop
I’m Going Your Way
Soulful Old Man Sunshine
Walkin'
Games that Two Can Play
When Girls Get Together
Where is She?
Suzie Cincinatti
Carnival
I Just Got My Pay
Take A Load Off Your Feet
Fallin’ in Love / Lady
Back Home

Those had work started between the mastering of Sunflower and its release:

Seasons In The Sun
Lookin' At Tomorrow
Big Sur
'Til I Die
H.E.L.P. Is On The Way

Though no AFM has turned up, don't forget the flip side of "Lady", "Sounds of Free"

"Where is She" is one of those missing Sunflower outtakes also :)

Thanks for the replies all...

Well that gives a little more background into the former three. I'm sure the one I came across was no Awake though.  It was a rather unusual last name if I recall, and I'm pretty sure it was a three word song.  Wish I could add more to that.  Maybe I'll look around for it again.

Wher Is She is one I had not heard of before, so that's interesting as well.  Does anyone know about What Can The Matter Be?

And then there's "My Solution" too...

If it's Won't You Tell Me, that's a little later.  I'm pretty sure My Solution was recorded after the Sunflower session, but check the AGD's site.  You might consider the acappella versions of Add Some Music and Cottonfields and the alt Tears in the Morning. The fifnished vesion of It's A New Day is later - Blondie's on lead vocal.

Upon searching around I found the mystery song was Lady Love (Wilson/Hinsche).  Turns out I knew the other name afterall, but he would have been pretty young in the Sunflower era and I didn't even know he was associated with the band back then.  I'm assuming this was just an error on the site and it was a song from well later on, but maybe people can verify.

I really wish some of the stuff mentioned in this thread regardless would get a release of some kind.

"Lady Love" has been released. It was a 45 by Dino, Desi & Billy from 1970. It's also on Sundazed's CD compilation of DD&B. Great Brian Wilson tune.

Also, Billy Hinsche would not have been too young, at that time. I don't know his bio that well, but I know that in 1965, DD&B were a go-go/folk-rock act in Hollywood, playing clubs throughout the area. They were written up in tons and tons of teen music magazines.

Billy was also Carl Wilson's brother-in-law, so there was the early Beach Boys connection. Not sure when he joined the touring band, but I remember Billy telling me that he was invited to go to Holland with the band in 1972. The co-write with Brian from 1970 is a valid piece of info from the internet.

I believe it was Billy you were talking about, right?

I'm sure the one I came across was no Awake though.

"Awake" was, like, an old Americana song by Floyd Tucker or someone like that. Brian did a solo vocal version of it in 1970, then Spring covered it a year later for the b-side of the single "Now That Everything's Been Said," both of which appeared on the 1972 Spring album. I think the lyrics are different, and Brian's 1970 version has a catatrophic falsetto vocal.

Whether that could be considered a "Sunflower" outtake, I don't know. I thought it was more of a demo.

Just an addendum to my earlier post: My Solution, was, I believe, recorded October 31, 1970.

Hmm yeah I was aware the song was released after the fact.  At the time I just saw it as something related to Sunflower so I naturally assumed it was something never released.  If I had known it wasn't a Beach Boys recording I probably wuldn't have mentioned it.  The birth date I had would have made him 19 at this time, which in the BB scheme of things is manageable.  I only knew of him from years a little later however.  Would he have been Carl's brother-in-law in 1970?

I do find it interesting how this one is pretty much all by itself in between the conscious efforts for albums.  I haven't heard it so I don't know what to expect.

Also, remember that Billy was allegedly going to replace Bruce when Jack Rieley took over.

Actually to me Brian sounds great on it. I think it was cut in 1971 along with Silly Walls.

Carl married Annie Hinsche early in 1966

EDIT: Just checked the exact date (February 3)

I should have known Carl was married by that time haha.  His first son was even on the Sunflower cover.  How would people have felt if Billy had actually replaced by the time Surf's Up came around?

Surf's Up, nah. I really like the Bruce-vibe Surf's Up has. If he had replaced Bruce after he left, and we'd had Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, Billy, Ricky, and Blondie, that would've been sweet. But Billy was already in the band anyway kinda. Does anyone know if he contriubted anything in the studio (like Ed Carter) or was he strictly a road-only guy?

"Awake", with "Silly Walls" was a Wilson/Sandler demo for Spring, recorded the first week of October 1971. The lyric is identical to the Spring version, which was recorded 10/8/71.

Billy is on the musican contract for some of the "So Tough" tunes:  Mess Of Help, Here She Comes, and He Come Down to be precise.  And to me, it sounds like his voice singing one of the parts on Radio King-Dom. 

I guess What Can The Matter Be is pretty unknown to this community (or any place I've come across) in general then.  I don't know how much of a recording even exists of it but I'm a little curious now I must say.

here's a wild guess

"What can the matter be"  could this be the old nursery rhyme?
would flow  into "Carnival" rather nicely...

hey!   anythings possible??...   :-\

Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be

Dear, dear, what can the matter be?(3x)
Johnny's so long at the fair.

He promised he'd buy me a basket of posies,
A garland of lilies a wreath of red roses,
He promised he'd bring me a bunch of blue ribbons,
To tie up my bonnie brown hair.

And it's oh, dear, what can the matter be?
Dear, dear, what can the matter be,
Oh dear, what can the matter be?
Johnny's so long at the fair.

He promised he'd buy me a beautiful fairing,
A gay bit of lace that the lassies are wearing,
A little straw hat to set off the blue ribbons
That tie up my bonnie brown hair.

(repeat chorus)

Interesting.  I had never heard of that nursey rhyme before.  Brian was never opposed to using traditional stuff so that's an interesting thought.  Since the recording of it is documented enough to know it exists, I wonder whether it's still hidden in the vaults.

It has a bit of a rock pedigree already, since there's a theory that it may have been the starting point for The Beatles' "Baby's In Black"...

Actually to me Brian sounds great on it. I think it was cut in 1971 along with Silly Walls.

I think he sounds great too.

Could it be that, rather than flowing into "Carnival," "What Can The Matter Be" actually IS "Carnival"?  E.g., using the nursery rhyme as words to the "Carnival" instrumental tracks.  It would fit.

Interesting.  It's possible in the same way if The Little Girl I Once Knew and Carol K were never heard.  We wouldn't know it's just the evolution from the instrumental to the vocals/lyrics.

I don't think that "Carnival" is "What Can The Matter Be" (which is something I've never heard or heard of, even after going through most of the original Sunflower-era tapes). 

"Carnival" is based on an old standard, "Over the Waves," a waltz from the late 1800s composed by Juventino Rosas.  It was a common musical staple for carousels, calliopes, and carnivals.

The words came later - added for a movie in the 1950s:

"When you're in love,
it's the loveliest time of the year
Stars twinkle above
you can almost touch them from here
Words fall into rhyme
anytime he is holding you near
When you are in love
it's the loveliest time of the year"

The unedited Beach Boys version runs about 2:45.... no lyrics, though.  Just more of the same, kinda building in intensity as it goes along.  Seems to have been a sonic experiment, according to Steve Desper.  This is certainly one for the Spatializer.

As for "What Can The matter Be," I have no clue...

Alan

"What Can The Matter Be ?" is what it says on the AFM documentation. It could, of course, be a title we already know in disguise.

What's the date listed on "What Can The Matter Be"?

Never mind - I went and looked it up on the handy "Gigs and Session" page for 1969.  Nice resource, indeed!

Feb 1969.... same session as "Celebrate The News."

Hmmm.  That 8 track reel (which we haven't yet pulled) has two leadered takes on it, but they might be the first and second generation masters of "Celebrate The News."

Hmmmm....

Sounds like Alan is about to play detective...


some days I wish I was you Alan

 8)

Doc Smiley

Haha, it would be neat to have resources like that to go by.  Is "Where I She?" as much of a mystery as WCtMB?

There's also a session on May 24 1969... um, I think I might have made a typo for Feb 24, but there's definitely an AFM sheet for 5/24/69

Nope - the version i heard sounded like a roughly edited demo, Brian solo. I understand there's a more realised version as well.

AFM sheets in my archives include:

Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 2/24/69 (two sessions that day)
Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 2/25/69
Celebrate The News - Sunset Sound 3/3/69
What Can The Matter Be - Valentine Recorders, 5/24/69

Musicians on this last session were Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Alan Jardine, Bruce Johnston, Mike Love, Roger Neumann (a woodwind player), and contractor Jon Parks.  The absence of Brian MAY indicate that this was a song written & produced by one of the other Beach Boys...although Brian's absence from the AFM sheet does not guarantee his absence from the session, as other AFM sheets & session tapes prove...

Cool.  I always tend to like Brian's demos.Wouldn't surprise me if it was Dennis.  He seemed the most enthusiastic about recording in early '69.