The Smiley Smile Message Board

I have seen something floating around the net claiming to be demos for TLOS.  The files are in FLAC format, so if I had them in my possession I would have no way to play them at this moment.  Has anyone heard of these "demos" and does anyone know what they are?

They are just that - there's been discussion about them here and on other boards but much of it has been stopped.

There was an MP3 download available for just a few days on a Singapore website and since then a boot has been pressed. I think attention was drawn to it when someone began posting spoof jokey threads about bonus tracks, since said to be a red herring, but who knows.

But any mention of either online seems to be eradicated very quickly - I think Melinda's pulling out the stops to have this suffocated; God Only Knows how it came to be leaked but no doubt someone's had a surf board inserted where the California sun's never gonna shine.

The demos were superb quality, though the BBs' version of Can't Wait Too Long was used, a few vocals snippets are done by band members rather than Brian and there's the odd crude edit. Other than that it is STUNNING... or so I heard.

As AGD has reported elsewhere that recoding has started properly, you're probably as well awaiting for the finished product - on the strength of what was out there ever-so-briefly, it's going to be simply breathtaking.

And don't be surprised if this thread vanishes before long!

Here's some artwork... I don't expect that'll be around long either.

http://www.giginjapan.com/scan145/brian-wilson-that.htm (http://www.giginjapan.com/scan145/brian-wilson-that.htm)

Before you ask, I'm afraid I don't have a copy.

This is the tracklist of another reputed bootleg - but the bonus tracks would surely make it a 2CD set, not a single (note that Lucky Old Sun is usually listed as tracks 1 & 2):

FROM THE ORIGINAL MASTER TAPES
That Lucky Old Sun
Morning Beat
Narrative: Room With A View
Good Kind Of Love
Forever She’ll Be My Surfer Girl
Narrative: Venice Beach
Live Let Live
Mexican Girl
Narrative: De Mayo
California Role
Narrative: Between Pictures
Oxygen To The Brain
Been Too Long
Midnight’s Another Day
That Lucky Old Sun
I’m Goin’ Home
Southern California

BONUS TRACKS (sources as identified by AGD over on the Shutdown message board -  thanks Andrew...)
ive Let Live - alternate version from Arctic Tale soundtrack
Speed Turtle - from CD included in kids book: not BW composition
What Love Can Do - from New Music From An Old Friend
God Only Knows - ditto
Heaven - from the Bloo
The Spirit Of Rock ‘n’ Roll - probably from the Hallmark CD Songs From Here & Back
You Are So Beautiful - from Carnie's lullabyes CD A Mother's Gift
Believe In Yourself - from the Duck Dodgers cartoon, also an ESQ CD Under God
Rodney On The ROQ - from the Mayor Of Sunset Strip soundtrack

Thanks for the info.

I've heard it. It's definitely genuine - about the same quality as the 2 demos on Brian's site last year.

Dont know if that Melinda comment is true or not.. I do know that private emails flew back + forth + everyone decided NOT to talk about it,,,If Melinda is involved she has that right...It must be frustrating to keep new work private...We all know that doesnt happen..  And its gone on forever..BW is such a revered figure in music..The music is so geniune That the fans want everything ...!!!!!         BUT.. And a BIG BUT... Melinda must know anybody that has those..will.. STILL .. Buy the FINISHED product.... The true fans SUPPORT the music in all its forms..... But yes their privacy has been invaded...

Speaking of the demos I saw this on the blueboard. Wonder if this is true or not. I kind of hope not  >:(

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Mr. Ethrington Any Truth . . . ?

(posted by Gary Carson on May 1, 2008 at 7:38 am)

Message:

You semed to be very dialed into the BW Camp. I heard from a friend in L.A. who works in the studio where TLOS was being recorded that The Band has offically changed? The Tastey Brothers are NO MORE?! Bob Lizik and Jim Hines are no longer in The Band?! Please say it isn't so?!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I love that comment about inserting a surfboard ...Pure Genius..!!!!!!!!!!!

Fully appreciate what you're saying Mr Wilson, which is why I'd not be upset if this thread went the way of the others.  And I can understand why Brian and/or Melinda (or who-ever) might not want demos in circulation -  if anyone saw what I'm working on right now, I'd never get another job in my life!

I don't think so. That rumour was also out a few years ago and nothing happened.

I've heard them.

Simply stunning. Some of Brian's best solo work ever!

I can't wait till the official album comes out. It's mind boggling that this can sound even better.

I think you're right! I'm hoping that the CWTL section will be expanded considerably or re-recorded as a bonus track, hopefully in the way Brian intended back in the '60s, with lyrics, as TLOS will make for a short CD album in itself.

Sorry for my ignorance, what's CWTL stand for?

Can't Wait Too Long,

or

Been Way Too Long

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Well, Jimmy Hines wasn't in the band originally -- that was Todd Sucherman (now Mr. Taylor Mills).  Todd played most of the drums on the GIOMH album, and he seems to be close to Scotty Bennett (they co-produced Taylor's solo CD), so he might be on the album. Who knows? As for Bob Lizik, he seems like one of the less critical members of the band -- but that's just my opinion.

Doh! Should've known that.

I've been lucky enough to hear the demos, (though only a couple of times because I don't want to spoil the real thing) and they are good, some better than others, while some of the instruments sound a little MIDI-ish to me - particularly the title track.  But what do we expect - they are demos.

That said, when fully produced I expect TLOS to be a great triumph for Mr Wilson...the demos show the potential...and with the full orchestrations from the live shows I don't think I have looked forward to the release of (m)any albums more than this (I missed the SMiLE anticipation).

I think there is a good reason for that.

I recieved these recording a few weeks ago.My first impresion twas that it was a Love Song Suite to California with heavy Mt Vernon overtones.
 I like the way it sound as is. No need to mess with it any more.IMHO

I reckon you should try having another listen - I believe you'll find its actually about the Wilson family, its relationaship with California (after all it did help create the image of California) and more importantly about Brian, his youth, his brothers and his redemption. Its far more than "a love song suite to California". Isolate the Californian songs (and narratives) from the rest and the songs then follow the timeline of the rest, the timeline is the key to the family/Brian story.

Heard, its great! particularly like california role, morning beat, MAD, southern california

really looking forward to hearing the official release

Love the way the mouth organ is being used in Going Home. Unlike How Could We Still Be Dancin', Desert Drive et al, this song really does rock.

Haven't heard a single note of it, so I'm eagerly awaiting it's release. Great news that it's being recorded after the halt earlier this year. Sweet. It may indeed be a very good year with the POB reissue, none of which I've really heard.


I hope Mike doesn't sue Brian upon release!

Having said that, if Al or Mike release a solo album, I will get those too!! More solo albums for everyone. I wonder if it's common for great artists to go through a resurgent period late in life, or if Dylan and Brian Wilson are anomalies(among anomalies)?

Wow, how did this end up 'out there'?  Brian or Mel must have had a hand in it. Maybe to appease the masses because of the delay in recording the album.

The Demos are pristine quality and a lot of effort went into the B/R vocals.  Yes, some midi but make the "Love You' demos sound like garbage (quality wise).

Just burned the tracks to CD (37 minutes).  Understand Brian has added some songs - hopefully 'CWTL' will be fleshed out to atleast a couple minutes - so hopefully the album will be over 45 - 50 minutes .

The quality of the writing makes me wish the album would feature guest appearances by the Beach Boys.  I can hear David singing the opening verse (Rudy Vallee style), Al in spots; Bruce and Mike too.

Oh, it's the story of many an unreleased item. Person A gives something to Person B, Person B gives it to Person C, Person C makes it public knowledge.

Just listened thru again on my car stereo.  Great, great sound! (gotta love technology and 'FLAC', which beats MP3s by the way)   Could really hear a lot of nuances I didn't hear in the live versions  (and some variations from the live arrangements).  Brian, Scott, VDP, others really put considerable effort into this.  Going to be a VERY good album with the full band (though some members / Taylor on one?/ seem to be adding b/r vocals on a few tracks.)

Yes, I know these things get passed around but in the history of BB boots, I've never heard anything like this quality.  And all 'out there' freely available.

Wasn't Bri-Mel holding out for major label distribution, rather than the self-released option, which is why the long delay in finally getting around to a proper studio recording of TLOS?

If this is the case, then Bri-Mel  likely made high quality "home demos" that they then shopped around the (crumbling) major labels.

Any leak likely came from some guy at a label.

i haven't heard the demos, but i don't mind waiting for the real thing. As long as it comes eventually.

Any chances of a real piano being used this time around? That was the one thing that annoyed me (slightly) about Smile 2004, that the piano and harpsichord timbres i loved so much from the 60s were replaced by keyboards.

Actually...REAL pianos (both grand & upright) were used for Smile 2004.  The only "faux" instrument was the harpsichord, which was a custom-programmed Kurzweil.  The Kurzweil company sent one of their programmers over to work with Darian on the sound until Brian, Darian, etc. agreed it sounded like the real thing.  At least that's what it says in the article from either EQ or SoundOnSound (or maybe both...).

I think these demos were made last summer for bandmembers to familiarize themselves with songs/running order, etc., and possibly to show progress to the folks at the RFH  Why would Melinda use a demo with a BB track in it to shop the project to a label?  I don't think she would.

Seeing as Brian's people were spitting feathers and pitching blue fits about the demos being 'out there', I seriously doubt they had any hand in leaking it. There's one very obvious reason, if you think about things for a little while. Not saying it's the right reason, but works for me.

I still can't believe they got out. Is Brian's camp really going beserk (like they should)?

You can't? I'd be a lot more surprised if they hadn't gotten out.

Gee AGD, I missed the Melinda Wilson/David Leaf thread where they posted their unhappiness.  I for one, as a BB 'outsider' fan, find it a bit tiresome where 'insiders' come up with these things after the fact; or claim to have insider knowledge on goings on but can't divulge the facts (IE: Al Jardine not going on Brian's UK tour).  From hearing them, I think Susan is right that the tracks were put together for band members to learn the songs.  But it is naive to think, after making disks for so many people, that they wouldn't get out there.  Do you have any actual Mel quotes??? Nothing on the Blue Board.

With all due respect to you, by the way, AGD.   (I am just dying to find out why Al didn't tour)

For my cd, I added Brian's  'Heaven" as a bonus track and then  "TLOS"  live in London . About 73 minutes.  I am one happy camper right now as this will get me thru till POB/Bambu, Then the reissue of 'The Real Beach Boy', Then 'PostCard',  then the studio version of "TLOS'.  2008 is shaping up to be a very good year!

Well, whatever the reason for these things being leaked, they at least have the benefit of making the project seem exciting. Brian sounds with it and was obviously involved in playing instruments and singing leads and backgrounds. Add some strong material, and there's a strong case for the suite.

To my mind, this kind of leak just pressures the BW camp to release something already. That, or some band member is trying to sabotage the commercial release -- but why would anyone do that?

How would leaked demos affect eventual sales of material?  The "Free As a Bird" demo was available, yet Beatles' Anthology I certainly sold well. It's not like someone leaked the actual album--that hasn't even been (completely) recorded yet. The only way it would hurt sales would be if the songs sucked so badly that people decided not to buy, as opposed to being disappointed by an eventual release of those terrible songs. And in the case of TLOS, that isn't true--the songs are generally really good.

Luther -- I don't think that's the case -- I was just trying to play AGD's little puzzle -- why would the material be leaked? What's the purpose? He seems to suggest that there's a fairly obvious reason (aside from BW's inner circle letting it out for their own purposes). I was trying to figure it out. Perplexing.

Their unhappiness wasn't posted on any MB, but was made plain in emails. Why do you think that there was very little discussion when the tracks first leaked, or why certain threads rapidly vanished ?

They won't. Anyone that's curious enough to download demos is probably a fan and will get the official thing anyway. I'm sure that even if they'd put all the demos on BW's site as free downloads, it wouldn't hurt the sales of the album the slightest bit.

I can understand though that the BW camp is not happy with songs leaking out that haven't been approved yet as being finished.

That was my point.

I know. Can't a person reply without disagreeing?  :)

I won't stop you.

Wow this thread had more legs and ran further than I thought it would.  :lol

Hmm must access google....

I remember when threads on this subject first appeared, then disappeared sometimes within hours! Clearly someone with influence genuinely does NOT want this discussed....ergo the leak has no approval (tacit or otherwise) from Brian/Melinda. They don't want it out there...and the only reason I can think of is that the final product will sound very different. Still, I am sure AGD's little puzzle has a different answer.

Personally, even if they posted the entire album as free downloads, I'd still buy the official release....twice if its available on vinyl....but then I was one of the loons who bought the vinyl box set of Radiohead's album last year...

I think the final product may well sound quite different.  ???

edit.

What does that mean? They're bringing in some awful "hitmaking" outside producer?
Brian and Melinda, it's not going to be a hit. Just accept that. He's 65. 65-year-olds don't have hits. Just make the music Brian's way, and it will be beloved. Beloved is better than Top 40.

I would imagine--and hope--the final product would sound different! The demos are demos. If it were to be released with out of time drumming, bad MIDI sounds, half-fleshed out/pre-show arrangements and the full Brian-and-Scott choir, it would be a ridiculous waste of time. I won't say the demos aren't spirited. I won't say I wasn't happy to hear them. But they are demos. It's really just not even the same thing. I'm not talking about big-name outside producers, or over-slick sounds. I'm against both ideas. I'm talking about professionally engineered recordings by talented players who are making an effort to do a good job (as opposed to a pair of talented guys getting their ideas on "tape" [I assume it wasn't actually on physical tape...] so the band members can learn their parts).

Having now listened to the (alleged) demos which may (or may not) exist as FLAC files......LOL....

I agree. Those are basic demos put together by Brian and Scott for (presumably) the band to hear prior to the final arrangements being constructed for the live performances. Its great to hear the demos but any final studio recording will sound.....quite different, as AGD says. The album may bear little resemblance to those demos.

Hopefully it will bear a BIG resemblance to the live versions...

I know that. I was referring to Andrew's statement, which ended in an emoticon that suggested he had some kind of insider info that told him the songs would be different in a bad way. As in, they're putting a sax solo on Midnight's Another Day because the adult contempo producer of the moment is now involved.

I hope AGD will correct me if I am wrong, but I think his frowney-smiley was because I said I thought the reason for Bri/Mel actively trying to stop distribution of these recordings might be because the final album will sound very different....but that I felt AGD might well know of another reason.

Then he wrote that the final record should sound different with a frowney-smiley....which to me answers my question! I don't think he's saying that some outside hotshot producer wants to crank up the dB, remove the dynamic range and have some rapper shouting in the middle of Been Too Long...for example...

Actually, I'd kind of like to hear that one. Bonus track, anyone?  ;D

This is all I'll say: I was anticipating the studio version of TLOS with uncommon impatience. Not so much any more. I think... to expect another BWPS could now be unrealistic.

Ah, you tease, you tease!

You make it sound like the fully realised version could be a mess and that we might be happier with the demos? 

Andrew, I'm so glad you're not my girlfriend!

I'd imagine the main danger isn't a producer with futuristic ideas (I'd say Mark Linnett is "forward-looking" in many ways), more that the production has reverted to default cheap plastic. Damn shame if this has happened. Fingers crossed it just means a low-key approach based on acoustics.

Ok, I'll shoot: I guess AGD means the abscence of key members of the Brian Wilson Band in the recording/production process.

If I'm right, what do I win? A deleted post?  ;D

Aha. No Stockholm Strings & Horns, fewer "real" instruments?

But that can't be... I mean, they paid SS&H to perform in London. How much more could it cost to pay them for studio time?
Or maybe I'm just wrong.

Obviously you're far more in the loop than us, Andrew, but how much stock can you really put in demos?  Unless the problem is like Amy suggested about a lack of "real" instruments, or you know something about the final recordings that are being done that we don't.  I can't imagine it being the production (as the last few Brian has done have been quite good, I think) or absence of certain band members, so I can't possibly guess what it might be.

We love you AGD but you are quite the tease!

My comment wasn't specifically aimed at you; more the topic in general. And I believe we've got a deleted post now in that area that was more my point of contention originally.

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

Well, hell, maybe I should write what my (self) deleted post said! I only edited it because I thought it a tad too inflammatory.

What if Scott Bennett was booted from the band? The demos show him as a major co-creative force in TLOS -- and I certainly didn't know that he wrote "Southern California." That would be a fairly basic reason to want them squelched.

But I can't imagine this is the case. My suspicion is that the body of the work has changed in some substantial way. That is, maybe the VDP linking vignettes have been deleted.

Who knows?

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

now what Jim says....?

does he know something that most of us don't ;  or is he speculating in a most negative and frankly
uncomfortable way....


I'm looking forward to TLOS  and regardless of the gossip, until we hear otherwise, I'm assuming that Brian is recording with the people that he wants to perform with...

If the means a few band member changes.. so be it, because while Brian is well off, the others are just musicians and need to make ends $$ meet..

I'm surprised that they all have hung together as long as they have....

IMHO

Doc Smiley

Wow. Coming from one of the heartiest supporters of the BW camp and BW band, that's saying something.

Frankly, if it were just BW and the band making the decisions and the music, I would heartily support them. But they never have quite gotten to that point -- so much has been dictated by outside business forces and by the expectations of BW's management team.

I mean, what the hell was GIOMH about? That album was clearly something the band and BW were less than enthusiastic about. But it got made, because hey, it helped stoke the "Brian is still creative" storyline the same year that Smile came out. I mean, I love GIOMH, but there's no use denying that it's fitfully inspired, at best.

Let's not get into the scads of DVD releases, featuring "tributes" from such august talents as Ricky Martin.

Where were the collaborations with the Wondermints? Where were the Darian co-writes? Hell, where were the Foskett co-writes? Scott Bennett is nice and all, but why was he the one plucked out for songwriting on TLOS anyway? The BW band's potential has hardly ever been fully realized.

Meanwhile, Brian seems to putter along in his own little world -- and god knows it was nice to see that he still can bang out a tune and sing it (on record) nicely. But his moments of inspiration come and go, and they've seldom been captured (with the exception of something like "Walking Down the Path of Life," written and recorded in a month or two).

TLOS seemed to be a chance to capture that inspiration on record, for once, in a way that hadn't been worried to death. But it looks like it is. I will enjoy the record in whatever form it takes, I'm sure -- assuming the basic songs haven't changed. But the BW band is so talented. So capable. They have brought BW so much joy.

They, and he, deserve better.

I think much more the band than the BW camp, RobMac. People can say what they like, but I believe that band is a unique combination of wonderful, extraordinary musical talent and genuinely great, caring people. I can't imagine Brian's resurgence happening without them, at least not to the level of finishing Smile, etc.  Why in the world would anyone ever want to mess up that chemistry??

I was never a big fan of the BW "camp" per se, although I probably HAD a higher opinion of them than some, especially as relates to BWPS. But on the other hand - from the first time I saw them, I've been a huge fan of the band. There are very few ensembles (now or in the past) that could make great music come alive like they did, and do it with such class and such great attitudes. If indeed Jim and Bob (or Scott) have been "fired" it would be a travesty and a damn shame. Probably the beginning of the end of the greatest touring band I and many others have ever seen/heard too. And I believe they deserve much better than that.

double post

First of all, let's remember that "departures" can be motivated from either side.  Thinking "fired" is jumping to conclusions.


Jeff has been great to the fans, and he has been Brian's right hand in many ways.  I would wager, in fact, that if not for Jeff,the last ten years would have been very empty indeed for Brian fans!  Jeff has been irreplaceable on so many levels.  But Scott is many times the songwriter Jeff is.  That's why Scott was "plucked." 

And...didn't many of the sessions between Brian and Scott for what eventually became TLOS take place in summer '06?  Hard to know if anybody was plucking anything, or if a couple of guys were just writing some songs together.

Susan--I probably should not have hit Scott like that. For what it's worth, I think the TLOS songs are excellent, and he obviously played a big role with them.

I was just making the larger point that so many opportunities with the band seem to have been passed by. Why didn't Darian and Brian ever write together, for instance? Why didn't all of this talent help Brian create new things? They are clearly capable of cutting an album in a month or two. Where are our half-dozen new BW studio LPs full of band collaborations and their fresh, vibrant playing and singing?

That all seemed possible, back in 99-01. Now -- not so much.

You are correct of course, but what I've seen written up to this point seems to point towards "fired". Or "eased out" maybe would be a better way to say it.  And it may all be just rumor, but if it's true it's not good news.

All I can say this is all very sad to watch and hear about.

Very very sad. I agree with the above sentiments that even with all the touring,  the BWPS mind blow and the TLOS surprise, I've always felt as if there was a great unsaid - why didn't these greyhounds just GO and knock out some great studio experiments with Brian? Sometimes I'm afraid that its possible the here n now Brian has a lot more in common with the yawning, slightly 'down' fellow in the early BWPS rehearsal vids. Maybe the reason it never fully came together is that Brian was never fully capable of seeing it through.

I'll be interested in seeing whether the greatest hits tour this summer will basically be a warmed over version of the casino line up I saw in Vancouver last summer. Stripped down and quick n dirty. They are playing casinos this go round anyway.

If the TLOS release ends up dumbing down the freshness of the London shows, I'm glad that I downloaded the London shows and downloaded the demos. VERY pleased. If that offends the inner circle, well - that's just too bad. That lucky old sun will still come up tomorrow.

Wasn't Adult Child the last time Brian really took charge? I think after that he wasn't able to and  he  for the most part is that yawning figure seen in the Smile doc. He comes to life under the right circumstances, but because he is dependent on others to such a high degree it is hit and miss. I see the whole hits tour, Al "leaving", the tribute dvd's as slaps in the face. I don't ecactly blame Brian but he does let this stuff happen. He still has a lot of talent but nobody seems to realize that these musicians are important and should be treated like the equal partners they are. Otherwise we will get another Sweet Insanity or Stars and Stripes debacle or something unfocussed as GIOMH. Personally if Brian retired after Smile it may have been better all around. LOS has promise but if it's not going to be done right I rather stick with what's floating around now. Since he had that onstage episode last year I feel more then ever that Brian is being led by the nose down the wrong path. Seeing how blank he looks lately on things like the Kennedy Honors breaks my heart really.

What happened onstage last year?  I never heard about that...


This is very disturbing. :(

I've decided I'm not going to worry or stress over anything I can't control.

Over the past 10 years I've received more from Brian than I ever expected and I'm more than happy with that.

Brian and his People or the People and their Brian can do whatever they want. I saw TLOS with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears and I'm happy with that - if it never makes to record or CD then its just sad too bad.

Well, I think some of this goes too far.

Saying that Brian and the band could have done more on an original, creative level in the last 10 years is one thing. Saying Brian is being manipulated or controlled is quite another.

For what it's worth, I think Brian is probably quite content to be creative sometimes, and not creative a lot of other times. The issue is how those around him deal with that. I think his inner circle can sometimes force him at times he doesn't want to be forced. I think his band (his outer circle, so to speak) is so reluctant to ever force him that they sometimes miss out on the potential for great things.

What happened onstage last year?  I never heard about that...


I think it is a reference to him laying down on the stage mid-show last year during one of the concerts with Al Jardine.

Never heard about that before. Sounds quite dramatic to me. What happened?

I think Brian just had a little heat stroke or dehydration.  He sat down onstage for a little spell, then got up & finished the show. 

Who exactly has been fired? Or whatever?

thanks for adding a bit of sanity to the discussion, Tony!! :)

Thank you.

To me that sounds like something that could happen to just about anybody, not only to poor manipulated Brian Wilson.

Yes, exactly. It has happened to me before. If you feel like you're going to pass out, you sit or lie down, wherever you are. I learned that the hard way, and I'm not sickly or manipulated.

To go back to the "Why haven't the band written with Brian" question, i'm remembering the early days of touring - 1999, 2000, 2001, when that question was being asked.  It seems to me that the guys who were Wondermints, specifically, did not want to be seen as leaches - they didn't want people thinking that they were in the band so they could take advantage of Brian, getting writing credits with him, etc.  They purposely stayed as far as possible from the idea that they wree using Brian, and that extended to writing with him.  Why more of it isn't happening now that they've proven their loyalty beyond anyone's reasonable doubt i cannot answer.

Word is that the Tasty Brothers aren't the flavor of the month any more.

this is all so murky... i think the lack of a clear direction post-BWPS is coming to bear now. the TLOS demos could become a really beautiful record, but the apparent band upheaval is a little disconcerting... is any of it confirmed?

I'm really revealing my ignorance here--who are the Tasty Brothers?

Jim Hines and Bob Lizik

Thanks.  I'm familiar with the names of only a few people in Brian's band, and I'm afraid Mr. Hines and Mr. Lizik are not among them.

major bummer, if that's true... i read somewhere that taylor's hubby, who drums for styx, and will lee were lined up as replacements. maybe just temporary? i just don't understand the treadmill summer tour... other than generating some coin, i don't see the upside.

met bob and jim backstage in '05, and they were both really nice guys... bob introduced my friend and i to brian, which was far above the call of duty. he'll always be a legend to me for going the extra mile for us.

i don't really understand some of the hyperventilating that went on when the TLOS demos surfaced... we'd already heard two of the tracks bw.com, and the sort of people who would go to the trouble of seeking out the demos would already have heard any or all of the UK live shows that were circulating. i am one of those people, and i will be purchasing the album in a couple formats when or if it makes it to market. they have bigger issues than these demos, it sounds like... this is small potatoes, and all the wrangling and thread deleting just ends up confusing fans who will buy the final product anyway. weird.

Jim Hines was in fact the replacement for Todd Sucherman who left Brian's band for playing with Styx

right on - but wasn't it stated somewhere (maybe the blue) that todd is back in for this summer?

If the only changes in the band are Hines and Lizik are removed, from a musical standpoint I'd give that a big "oh well." They're both very good, but neither is anything near irreplaceable. As previously mentioned, if Sucherman replaces Hines, he's just taking his old job back. No big problem there. And while I enjoy Lizik's playing, I don't think it's much of a problem to find a bassist to handle the lines. He's not writing songs, he's not singing ... someone else can do what he does. If there were some sort of unseemliness involved in the quitting/firing/parting, I might say something else, but nobody has much (anything?) to say on that, so why speculate? Musicians join and leave bands all the time. It's not that big a deal. As Prof. Harold Hill said, "There's always a band, kid."

At this stage in the game..who gives a care 8)

Does anyone expect anything on par with Today??..relax and enjoy the past

So is this an accurate summation?

No TLOS will be released and Brian's touring band is being reorganized.

 :'(

No.

1. Rumour has it that the Tasty Brothers are no longer part of the band. Unconfirmed but if true probably not that big a surprise - rumours of this nature have been around a long time.

2. Brian is currently recording TLOS in LA and the sessions are being filmed.

EDIT: The freaking out, assumptions and general second guessing going on in this thread is becoming blueboardish in their nature- and that is what is really scary!! This is the Smiley Smile Board, descendent of the Smile Board the sensible, scholarly place to discuss Brian's music. Cool heads people - please.

The last time there was a rumor about anyone leaving the band BW posted on the Blueboard that it wasn't true, and that he loved those guys. There was no specific mention of Bob or Jim at that time.

And as another poster wrote, Bob and Jim were great people - and getting excellent musicians who are also great people isn't so easy to do.

If BW is indeed recording TLOS in LA it would appear he's doing it without the SS&H and (possibly) part of his band. IMHO, that does not bode well.

I don't see people "freaking out", I do see people who (like me) had high hopes and high interest in TLOS, etc who feel disillusioned and disappointed.

The rumours re the immanent departure of the Tasty Brothers go back to last year. I saw Brian and the band in January and remember thinking at the time that it might have been the last time seeing them in the band. So it's not a new rumour. Don't get me wrong Jim and Bob are great guys from the contact I have had with them but they are not crucial. Good luck to them with their futures if the rumours are true. Brian's band is a business and things like this happen in business.

When Brian played TLOS in Sydney in January he did so without the SS&H and they used local string players who rehearesed the day before the shows. They pulled it off well without screwing up the performance - they also played the shows without Nicky Wonder who was ill and didn't make the tour - again the they pulled it off without screwing up the performance. I see no reason to frett over band changes or the non appearence of the regular hired string section. Given your criteria for things not "boding well" for TLOS them the Australian TLOS shows should have been a disaster - they weren't - infact they were a critical success.

Still, if stressing over these things helps to get you through the day then power to you.

Me, I'm going surfing - its sunny, 3 to 4 foot and offshore - autumn in Sydney is such a wonderful place to be..........

While this turn of events is disappointing and unexpected, perhaps it makes sense from a financial standpoint.

I'm sure AGD will correct me if I'm wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, none of Brian's US tours have ever turned a profit.  Jim and Bob are wonderful musicians and even more wonderful human beings.  I've had the chance to meet them both on several occasions.  However, again as far as I know, they along with Paul are still Chicago based.

Perhaps this reorganization is in part to centralize the band, downsize if necessary, in order to keep things afloat?

And as another poster mentioned, it's not like they are replacing Jeffrey or Darian.. two individuals who absolutely must be in the BWBand from a musical and vocal point of view.  Bob and Jim don't sing, and Todd Sucherman has already played with Brian (not to mention being married to Taylor). 

Call me optimistic, but I think "everything will turn out alright, don't worry baby"   8)

I don't recall this amount of uproar when Todd left the first time, or when Mikey D'Amico left the band to be with his family in Florida.  Granted there wasn't an album on the line, but still...

That doesn't make sense to me. First off, Todd LEFT the band to stay with Styx back in 1999-2000, he recommended Jim Hines IIRC. And Todd only played a handful of shows with the band, Jim and Bob have played hundreds. Also, do you really think it'll be less expensive to have Todd as the drummer? Is Todd going to take less money to play than Jim did? He and Taylor live in Austin TX - so they are no more "centralized" than Jim or Bob. And Will Lee is from New York I believe, so I wonder if he isn't on the New York appearances only.

BTW, Jim Hines does sing - look at the Smile video, he sings quite a bit.

The reason there was little uproar over Mike was because he left on his own, for a good cause, and kind of just "slipped away", missing a tour, then back, then gone... BTW, no slight against Nelson Bragg, but I think the band was at it's best with Mike. He added yet another accomplished guitarist/bassist, as well as superb percussion. He also had a terrific voice.

Anyway, I can't see any financial benefit to not having Jim and Bob around unless they shrink the band by two members. Of course, if the few tours left are just "greatest hits" shows, maybe that doesn't matter.

So I'm NOT optimistic, not at all.

You're an asshole.

Nice one Heywood Floyd....Ever thought not everyone here lives and breathes Brian Wilson and his band. Keep up the encouraging words. :P

I got an idea :)  Since none of us have a clue what's going on, why don't we just enjoy the music whenever it does come out, with whoever's playing on it?  I'm not going to go ahead and get upset that somebody might not be on the album that might not ever come out that might not be better than live that..... blah.  Why don't we just wait and see what happens?

btw, I found the demos, they're pretty good!  Oxygen to the Brain is great.  IN MY OPINION, one of the most creative songs Brian's done in decades.  Stuff like "Skip the Vices Verses Jump to the Refrain!!!" or whatever he says is just 'wow!'. 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I can assure you that Brian's band is still together, complete, tasty, fresh as we love them.
Before the TLOS premiere in September last year, certain people claimed that Van Dyke Parks was brought in to save Brian's a.... , the same folks now say the studio album will be a disaster and band members fired...
Don't believe everything you read, but it was great fun to read this thread.  :-D

Dude, what the hell brought that on?

 
:-D

as could be read on the blueboard...


So apparently no Tasty Brothers...

C'mon, this isn't the Blueboard.

Hines is Brian's drummer and Lizik is Brian's bass player.

>
:( :( :-[ :'(

As announced, no Tasty Brothers for this show. Brian & band played only 8 songs and it's not the first time the Tasties were replaced for a short set like this. On bass Mr. Will Lee who played with other acts that night as well. Don't worry, he won't replace Bob Lizik.

(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20080509/i/r495495819.jpg?)

Brian Wilson highlights 'Rainforest' concert benefit
Thursday, May 8th 2008, 11:05 PM

 
Corkery/News
 
Billy Joel shared the stage at Carnegie Hall with his daughter, Alexa. (Click for more photos from the concert.)
The sun-kissed beaches of California may lie thousands of miles from the soaking foliage of the rainforest. But that didn't stop a kick line of boomer-aged pop icons from saluting classic L.A. music at a show meant to help save that eroding Brazilian expanse.

At the twentieth anniversary "Rainforest" show, held at Carnegie Hall Thursday night, the usual star suspects – Sting, Billy Joel and James Taylor - turned out to croon. But the evening found a clear highlight in a section devoted to the summery West Coast music of guest star Brian Wilson.

Coming towards the close of this long, slow, and often aimless night, Wilson provided some needed animation and helped redeem much of what came before.

The snaking lead-up included stretches of classical music and jazz as well as pop. To make things even more diffuse, the first half of the show featured its own self-contained theme - "Legacy," by which it seemed they meant "nepotism."

The headlining stars brought along their musical offspring, for what worked like a large scale example of showing off your kid's baby pictures. The second generation participants included Coco Sumner (sired by Sting), Alexa Rae Joel, plus Ben and Sally Taylor (spawn of James Taylor and Carly Simon). If nothing else, their presence added an extra layer of hominess to this always casual affair.

Among the kids, Sumner showed the most promise. Her vocals have the itchy intonations and husky tone of her dad, but she has a deep range and dark timbre of her own. She impressed mightily on her solo song "Bohemian Love."

The other well-connected singers had more decorative talents, providing competent harmonies and little else.

In between these performances, the hit-making parents cruised distractedly through some touchstones, like "Carolina On My Mind," from Taylor, "Englishman In New York," from Sting, and "An Innocent Man," from Joel.

To underscore the "Legacy" theme, the show opened with the whole cast sweetly signing the ultimate song of generations changing hands, "Turn, Turn, Turn." The set ended less happily with a take on the irredeemably corny "Teach Your Children."

Not content to leave it at that, the cast then snaked through the audience while hacking out an interminable version of "When The Saints Go Marching In."

After a break, we heard tasteful performances from Chris Botti and opera star Kathleen Battle, who stepped in at the last minute to salute the late Pavarotti (an old Rain Forest friend).

But the show didn't kick into high gear until Wilson and his band came out to bat out 8 undying hits. From the sumptuous chords of "God Only Knows" (with Sting taking some verses) to the creamy pep of "Fun Fun Fun" (with James Taylor adding his own touches), Wilson's songs provided a model of complex harmonics spun into blissful pop. You could make fun of the middle-aged stars twisting along to these songs like drunken uncles at the wedding. Or you could carp about the tossed-off feel of the rest of the night. But hey, it's a benefit show meant to generate good will and big bucks not to floor you with inspiration. And at those modest goals, it succeeded.


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/05/08/2008-05-08_brian_wilson_highlights_rainforest_conce.html

Here's something interesting (albeit completely irrelevant)... apparently "Tasty Brothers" is the name of an , ahem,  extremely adult film, according to one of my co-workers (who is also a huge BW fan).
:lol

In that case I'll simply name them Jim & Bob from now on....  :-D

I'll bet you $100 that Bob & Jimmy aren't at the UK shows.

Asshole is as asshole does.  ;D

Classy as ever, malcontent.

from the BRIAN WILSON "solo" set: "Do You Wanna Dance", "Barbara Ann", and "Surfin' USA". Hey, where was the Car Medley, at least he wrote the music to those... :police:

True - just with a different line-up.  ;D

D##n, I had a 50/50 chance, that's why I never play roulette. :-X
Please take my excuse...

I'd prefer taking those 100 bucks though...  ;D  ;D

Not just Les Freres Tastee departing - coupla techs fowllowing them, Drew Day & Mike Haas.

In the corporate world, a "dismissal" is often spun (for media consumption) into a "voluntary departure to pursue other interests".  I think we've seen some of that in regards to Mike's band.  Could that possibly be what's happening here? 

Of course that could be what's happening, or the management might actually be telling the truth? People do quit. Weren't Bob and Jim session musicians in Chicago? Maybe they wanted to work with other people, as management suggests.

Why don't we just rename this board "conspiracytheories.com" or "wifeandmanagerareevil.com"?  ;D

Hmmmmm... interesting concept. I'll examine the possibility.  ::)

I'm not one who's generally prone to conspiracy theories.  I wasn't alarmed when Darian didn't make the 2003 and 2006 summer tours, or when Darian, Scott, and Bob didn't make the 2007 summer tour (Bob made the European leg of it).  And if it were just Jim & Bob departing at this time, I wouldn't necessarily think it wasn't of their own free will, especially considering they live in Chicago not California, and they do keep busy as session musicians there.  But considering Alan Jardine decided at the last minute to stay home from the European tour last year to dedicate himself to finishing a solo album that still doesn't have a release date that I'm aware of, and considering that two of the main tech guys are leaving at the same time as the Tasties smacks of what the corporate world calls a RIF (Reduction In Force), ususally motivated by financial concerns.  Which, BTW, I totally understand, considering the price of gas & everything else these days...you do what you must to ensure your business survives, and it's nothing personal. 

So Brian's hurting for cash ?? Even given that he only gets the mechanicals (not the publishing) from the classic songs, I have a hard time believing his income is less than seven figures a year. Maybe someone's made a bad investment.

Well, I doubt BW (or his business, that is) tours out of charity. It's done, I assume, to make some amount of money, however small. And the U.S. is reeling right now -- slipping further every day into recession or depression. The real estate crash has slammed the entire economy. I'm assuming it affected the BW outfit the way it's affected all of us here in the states.

Not counting the three/four date tours and one-offs, Brian's US tours have historically lost money, with the possible exception of the series in 1999 (where the merchandising made up the shortfall) and, of course, the 2001 tour supporting Paul Simon. The 2000 US Pet Sounds jaunt was a financial disaster - I've heard it lost close to $500,000. Overseas it's the promoters who have taken a bath.

Well, assuming Brian is heavily invested in real estate (I know I've read he's picked up various homes in various spots over the last 10 years or so), he might be really feeling the pinch right now. Some big markets have seen 20-30 percent drops in property values.

I wouldn't worry about BW's finances just because of the U.S. having its troubles. It seems to me that in such times, the poor get poorer, the middle class become poor and the rich, well, they might get a little less rich. I think he's got enough cash on hand to cover the rent...

Oh, I don't doubt that. My one point is that he may well have less spare cash floating around, and his inner circle might be less prepared to subsidize a money-hemorrhaging tour.

If the real estate market is down, it doesn't harm somebody's cash if they're not actively selling real estate.  Brian owns several homes because he's incredibly wealthy.  He's not renting them out or anything, they're vacation homes.  It doesn't matter if the homes are worth less now or not, because he's not trying to sell them.  Even if he's borrowed up to his eyeballs on the homes, their relative value to the loans wouldn't matter because again he's not selling them and taking the hit on the loss.  His bills this month are the same as his bills last year when the houses were worth more. 

Also, about the U.S. economy.  They tell me on the news every night that the economy is horrible, yet we haven't had a single month of negative gdp growth, much less the 6 months in a row we need to make it a recession, lines at Disney World are longer than ever, and Movie Ticket sales are through the roof.  If we're in a recession, people sure are spending a lot of money. 

Also you can't fire the drummer and the bassist to save money if you have to hire another drummer and bassist to take their place.  This is all a bunch of drama over nothing.  How big is his band, anyways?  10 or 15 people?  We're supposed to be shocked that after 9 years a couple of them left? 

Lets put this in another perspective: Bob and Jim left the band after 9 years.  Brian Wilson himself stopped touring with the Beach Boys 3 years in. 

You can if you can pay the new guys less.  Which is why I think Adrian Baker, Mike Meros, Mike Kowalski, and Chris Farmer were all let go from the Mike & Bruce band.  Like I said, if Bob & Jim were the only ones leaving, I wouldn't necessarily doubt it was all their idea.  But two of the top tech guys "leaving" at the same time?   

Baker was 'let go' because he wasn't being a team player, and Kowalski, well, his drumming had become worse than a joke.

In your opinion had he ever been really good to start?

Kowalski was one of the premier drummers of the 1970s.  He played with a lot of first-rate artists, including Island Records' Nick Drake.  David Marks tells the story of talking with him years later - late '90s - and discovering the MK was the drummer on one of DM's favorite obscure songs from 30 or 40 years ago.  According to David, whose judgment in such matters i trust, Kowalski was a monster drummer.  As he aged it became much more difficult physically for him to keep up, but in his younger days, yes - he really WAS good.

Thanks for answering.  I just asked because I don't hear bad drums on any Beach Boys seventies shows myself.

Yes, very good - in his days with the pre-1998 Beach Boys he was never less than excellent, but as the years went on, he frankly lost it (due in part to a painful back problem, granted) and by 2004 was a complete embarrassment. In stark terms, he wasn't doing the job he was being paid to do.

I remember someone saying he had a heart problem or something. Am I dreaming this or is that true?

Well, in the 70s shows, they also had guys like Dennis Dragon, Ricky Fataar, and Bobby Figueroa playing drums along with Kowalski (and Dennis W.), though they did use Kowalski as the replacement for Dennis in the 80s, and he didn't seem too bad then.

His back was still healthy then...the '70s are a long way from the '00s [pronounced AWTS].

"awts"? I've just always called this decade the 2000s.

I have some shows from early this century but haven't got around to playing them I have so many live shows to still hear. Thanks for more info everyone. I heard people saying his drumming wasn't that great but only the last seven years or so. Now I know why.

The ultimate nutty conspiracy theory.

The people living in the years 1900 to 1909 referred to that decade as the "aughts" or the "aughties", aught meaning zero. Many people refer to this decade as the "two-thousands", but "aughts" is just as correct.

I've never heard of that...it sounds strange. 

I heard "naughts".

They sometimes called that zero-decade the aughty-aughts, as well.  And it sounds strange because it has almost an archaic sound to it.  But i assure you, it's legit!

It's legit, anybody who's ever went hunting has likely heard of "Double aught buckshot" and "triple aught buckshot", meaning .00 and .000 size pellets in the shells.  It's just an old fashioned way of speaking. 

I always wondered why no-one calls it the twenty hundreds - after all, everyone now refers to events from 1900-1909 as taking place in the nineteen hundreds.

Maybe because it sounds sh*t.

 ;D

OK, possibility examined and summarily dismissed.  ;D

Maybe that's where the name for the gun called a "30-aught-6" comes from. .30 caliber, invented in 1906. That's just a guess, though.

Yes, that's correct. The gun (or cartridge, more correctly) is still referred to alternately as ".30 '06".

There's an episode of the Simpsons where Bart breaks into turn of the century gold-prospector speech. If I remember he utilizes the "aught" as "0" in character.

Anyway, carry on.

Aric