The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've seen the following two claims both perpetuated and refuted for decades.  Anyone have the final word on either one of these?

1.  "Sloop John B" was included on Pet Sounds at Capitol's insistence, because it was their latest single, and that it was never intended for that album (easy one for me to believe).

2.  Murray was behind the speeding up of "Caroline No" (difficult for me to believe).  If this is true, how was he even involved enough at point to make such a call?

Not true. Brian submitted a track listing that included that track,which wasn't even released at the time!

2. Maybe he just made a suggestion and Brian thought it was a good idea?

     It's not Murray -- it's Murry.  Minutiae indeed!

The Murry thing is true I'm pretty sure.  Brian has obviously talked about it, and Bruce mentioned how it bugged him in the booklet that came with the Pet Sounds box.

So did Murry simply suggest it and they thought it was a good idea?  The versions of the story I've heard/read imply that Murry was in the studio and did this almost surreptitiously.

The story as I've heard it goes that Brian played the track for Murry, he suggested it and Brian agreed.  I don't think it was one of Murry's control things...just more of a tossed off suggestion that Brian thought would sound good.

That's the story I've heard as well.

Thanks for the replies.  The "Sloop John B" rumor is even perpetuated in the liner notes of the mono/stereo Pet Sounds CD, at least in my copy from a few years ago (not sure if it's been remastered since then.

One more nagging question related to Pet Sounds:

In the late 80s or early 90s, an oddball mix of "Wouldn't it Be Nice" started to be played on oldies radio.  It was mono IIRC and had a different Mike Love vocal on the bridge.  Anyone heard this and know where it originated?

BTW, I'm definitely NOT talking about the the box set version with Brian on the bridge.  The mix I'm discussing was around for several years before the box set came out.

What's the story with this one?

What you describe sounds like the WIBN that came out on Made in the USA.  It also I think was released on a single rerelease by mistake.

Murry suggested the speed change to make Brian's voice sound younger, which he thought suited the song (lost innocence and all).  I prefer the original speed but it was an interesting idea.

I think it's on "Still cruisin'" too. My experience says that classic rock-stations in Germany tend to play that version (if they play the BBs at all)

Might be the one that was on Still Crusin' but anyone, feel free to clarify.

Here's another falsehood that's been perpetuated:  Pet Sounds didn't sell when it came out, it bombed, etc.


Later research showed that it went "gold" pretty quickly.

Pop stars who have a string of number one hits are quick to call their first single that gets to number 2 a "flop."  It's all relative, but yes, I hear you.

George Martin considered Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields a flop because it only made number 2 rather than 1 - apparently because the two songs charted independently and total sales of the single weren't combined.  He wished he'd put "When I'm 64" on the flip of SFF instead.

You know, I always wondered why the Beach Boys "only" had three no.1s in the 60s.

What of the story that Capitol mis-counted the sales or something like that...so it was awarded Gold status late? Or am I confusing that with something else?

Cheers
Sam

It's been said that Capitol lost paperwork that would have made Pet Sounds at least three times platinum by now.

According to Bruce Johnston, Sloop John B was NOT intended for Pet Sounds...

Another good example of contemporaneous paperwork proving a band member's memory incorrect.

The thing with RIAA certification is that the record company has to request, and pay for, an audit of the album's sales. It's not an automatic thing. The news that Pet Sounds would have gone gold in the summer of 1967 only emerged when an audit was done in 2000 in order to present Brian with a disc at his Roxy shows. The album was certified gold and platinum on February 11th that year.

I thought I heard/read that Murry was "fired" or let go in 1964, and gradually faded into irrelevance with the group. So, I'm mildly surprised that 1) Murry was in the studio for the Pet Sounds sessions instead of just hearing the album when it came out, 2) that Brian was still listening to Murry's suggestions, and 3) that if Murry did make the suggestion, that he war right! I can't even listen to the slower (original?) "Caroline No" lead vocal.

Another falsehood perpetuated:  The Boys didn't play on Pet Sounds at all.

Brian played on That's Not Me and Pet Sounds
Dennis played on That's Not Me
Carl played on That's Not Me, I'm Waiting for the Day, and God Only Knows
Al very likely contributed to That's Not Me

You can fire your manager....but you can't really fire your father.  I think Brian was always trying to get Murry's approval....I'm sure he played Murry stuff in the studio before it was released.  Hell....Murry co-wrote Breakaway with Brian.  They may have collaberated more I can't recall.  In addition, Murry still held alot of financial sway with sea of Tunes, so I'm sure he would check in periodically to see how investment was doing.

The BB's never really stopped being a family business.

So, relative to 45 RPM or 33 1/3 RPM, what would be the "original speed" of Caroline No before it was sped up?

It's not surprising that Brian, after firing Murry, listened to his suggestions for Caroline No.  He cowrote Breakaway with his father in 1969, right?  It was an up and down relationship and as the previous poster said, Brian always wanted his father's approval.

That would be tricky to figure out.  It's much easier to think of it by pitch, in which case it was sped up a half step from G to Ab.  In terms of percentage, it would be something like a 3-5 percent speed up.

Don't want to derail the thread, but two posters mentioned it now...

I have to seriously wonder how much Murry contributed to the actual composing of "Breakaway".

There's no way of knowing, but I hear Murry's influence in there.  The man could write a song.  They may not by your cup of tea, but he wrote a few good ones all by himself.

Thanks!