The Smiley Smile Message Board

It's too bad that there's just not much money in records and CDs anymore - the real money is in touring. It makes me wonder if we are ever going to see a release of That Lucky Old Sun. I LOVE SMiLe 2004 and I like Gettin' In Over My Head (although it almost sounds as if its in Mono, and it took a while for me to get into) - but TLOS looks like it could really blow all three of Brian's non-SMiLe solo releases out of the water! He should just release the damn thing!

On a happier note, the "Arctic Tale" version of "Live Let Live" is now available for download from iTunes as a single track. Finally.

I think TLOS will get a proper studio release, it just may not be quite as soon as we would like.

Or, perhaps, not in the format that those of us in Europe and Australia have been lucky enough to see.

As it stands - at roughly 38 minutes (or whatever) - its not an "album".

It certainly deserves release - it is a significant body of work in Brian's solo canon - one reassuring tidbit I keep reminding myself of is that there must be some quality soundboard recordings in the hand's of Brian's people .........

I don't see why that would stand in the way of a studio recording...I doubt any BB albums in the 60's were any longer than that.  Heck I think Smiley is something like 24 minutes.

The work is good enough that it deserves a proper studio recording...a live recording would be okay too I suppose, but Brian is the king of the studio.  That is where his music is meant to be recorded.  Given the quality of his recent releases, I think it could easily be his best original studio album.

I hope it's not a money issue. I just hope it isn't.

Brian has enough money for himself, his kids, his kids' kids, and his kids' kids' kids.

At this stage of his life and career, I had wished Brian would be recording music as an expression of his art, as a labor of love, to be creative, because he enjoys it, because that's what Brian Wilson is meant to do - make music. Please don't let financial considerations come before those other things...

Dennis' "Pacific Ocean Blue" is only 37:25.  It's an album!
Brian could easily add a minute or two to TLOS by including the extra verse (and I think there was an extra chorus) on "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl" that's on the demo, and I think "Live Let Live" is longer on the "Artic Tale" even without the intro.  And "Midnight's Another Day" has another repeat of the piano motif at the end on the demo.  I haven't timed it out, but all that could add up to at least a minute, I would think.

Wow, so neither Sgt. Pepper or Pet Sounds is an album, either?

Ech. I expect the album will come out at some point. The delay has been so far, what? A month? Let's give it a good 6-7 months, hear what BW says in interviews for the European tour, and then start griping.

I used to think that, but sometimes... I wonder. :-\

I would really doubt that Brian has any financial problems at all.  I mean, if Britney Spears can collect $750,000 a month for sitting around doing nothing, I'm sure Brian's royalties from old BB hits must be substantial.  The albums still sell, especially the compilation albums of the last few years.  I can't imagine Brian ever hurting for money, so I don't think that would be a reason to not record TLOS.

They would be, if he still held the publishing. But thanks to Murry, he doesn't.

Even without the publishing, his performance royalties must still be worth a lot though I would think, right? 

Obviously if he still held the publishing he would be a lot richer than he already is...I'd be curious to know what that catalogue is valued at today.

Last figure I recall quoted (a few years ago) was $300 million.

Brian gets a good income  from the mechanicals, but he's got three houses to keep up, three kids & nannies, two horses and 13 (at the last count) dogs.

Wow that is absolutely insane...Murray really screwed him over on that one.  Had Brian held onto that he would probably be one of the richest musicians alive, behind only maybe McCartney.

You forgot the most expensive AGD....One wife! ;D

38 minutes or so for an album may have been acceptable in the 60s & 70s but not now. Times, markets and "consumer awareness" have changed substantially - just stop to think how many "bonus tracks" would have to be added to the Japanese market just to make it accepatble...  ::) - or - just imagine all the blood and guts that would be splattered across the blueboard!!  ;)

At 38 minutes just putting out an album would be seen as ripping off consumers no matter if the quality is far greater than the quantity, far too many people just "don't get it" when it comes to art and the artist. If 38 minutes is to be the length of the piece then some greater form on multi media presentation should be considered. Its time for Brian's marketing people and some multi media techies to start thinking outside the circle - TLOS is certainly a piece of work which lends itself to exploring new media.

This year's big Grammy winner, Amy Winehouse, did it with a 36 minute CD.

Oh well - there you go - I'm screwed!!

Money issues with Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys..Kinda doubt that lol

Maybe thats why theyre doing all their shows in the UK...to get all those suckers to pay for the release. :p

Hell, every Weezer album barely seems to crack the 30 minute mark.


That'd explain why he keeps selling those houses.  Think he needs to find a new accountant....


What I've never understood is why when Brian sued, why didn't he sue for the *copyright*, as opposed to a finanical settlement?!

No, your point/post was an excellent one. It indirectly reiterates the point I was trying to make.

TLOS is (and sounds like) an attempt at "art", as opposed to a CD full of potential singles to get Brian back on the radio. If TLOS times in at 38 minutes, and that's what the piece calls for, then that's how it should come out.

But noooooooooooooooo, that's not good enough because it won't make enough money. See, they're thinking like 1966-67 again. They still haven't learned their lesson. The $$ comes before the artistic vision - again.

Your idea was a good one. Maybe they could release the 38 minute TLOS with a bonus CD or DVD of something. At least it wouldn't be compromising Brian's art.

And BTW, yeah, Brian does have three houses. Add up the value(s) of those three houses and subtract what he owes. I bet there's plenty of equity there. Real estate is one of the best investments there is. It increases in value all the time. Do you know anybody who sold their house for less than what they paid for it? Brian's loaded, unless Melinda made some horrible investments.

The latter part of that statement may be key...

What is this obsession with album length on this thread? Do you all actually think anyone cares about album length? The vast majority of the albums by new artists that I get are between 35 and 45 minutes. If TLOS were to clock in around 38, that's on the short end of normal, but it's normal.

There is no requirement for an album. There is no real standard, other than just the mathematical average, I guess. And I've never heard anyone say they were ripped off by a good album that is too short. Conversely, I hear--and far more often dish out--complaints about albums that are too long all the time. Unnecessarily repetitive, too many filler songs, too much boring soloing, or as was common in hip hop (and with Prince) for a long time, little skits between songs.

If the reason that it's got a 38 minute running time is what is holding TLOS back--which, by the way, nobody actually said, it was just a discussion brought on by a post on the initial thread with the misguided assumption that 38 minutes is somehow too short--it's without question the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

6 out of 23 replies is considered an obsession?

Switch to decaf, Luther. :smokin

ALL Beach Boys studio albums before 15 Big Ones were shorter than 38 minutes...

No.

I was unaware that so many contemporary albums come out at the 30 to 40 minute mark - I'm not anal (not saying others are) about album lengths and would personally be very happy if TLOS came out as is. Having seen it live I know how good it really is. I wouldn't complain about a 38 minute TLOS CD release.

Given the nature of the work - the meshed dichotomy between the story of Southern California/LA and the Wilson story - there are significant oportunities to expand the "art" behind the work. I'm not thinking simply of a combo of CD & a DVD of a live show here, I'm thinking bigger scope, something different, "outside the circle" as I posted earlier - I'm not sure what the answer is, I'm not the artist and my 50+ brain is limited in its knowledge of the mediums available to the creative people - but the potential is there - its a panoramic work of art and deserves to be treated as such. There are opportunities here for Brian's people to expand the scope of "an album release or format" and to push the boundaries. This isn't about "hits and Top 40 success" - those days are well behind Brian and are part of some blueboard fantasy world - this is about pushing the limits of the contemporary artist marketing to the non Top 40 market - rewrite some rules here folks! Just as Brian did in 66/67 - The TLOS release can be about mining the creative leagacy of what Brian was creating in 66/67 not 63/64.

The release of TLOS shouldn't be limited to "how it's been done before" - for example Mark London should be considered as important in the overall "Brian Wilson" package now as Mike or Carl were to the "Beach Boys" package in the 60s. All of the creative people who work for Brian should be viewed as part of the "Brian Wilson" of today not just the musicians - why limit an artists ability to create new product to our old concepts of what a "band" should be?

And as for house prices going down - yep it happens - here in Australia the housing bubble burst about 5 years ago and house prices in major cities like Sydney & Melbourne crashed between 10% to 20% - back then our Reserve Bank pushed the credit responsibility back on the consumer unlike the US Fed which let the sub prime market expand - now Australia is increasing rates to cool the economy while the US Gov is reducing interest rates in order to boost the economy and avoid recession. Hell the Aussie Dollar is almost parity with the US$ - 5 years ago it was half the value of the US$ - at least the cost to us of buying boots from overseas has halved!!  :lol :lol :lol

Let's not forget, fellow folk, that the money issue may not be that Brian LACKS the money to record TLOS, but would PREFER to have someone else advance it, like a WB - Nonesuch.  Yeah, he can pay for it, but let's try to get someone else to pony up first.  That's how it used to be done.  Given the metastasizing of the cancer killing the record industry, that may not be as do-able as it once was, of course.   Capitol/EMI, for one, is cutting acts, not signing them.  Still, you can give it a try before getting out your own checkbook to pay for the studio time.

My guess is it will get done later this year, but he will have to front it himself (or with a little consortium), then license the finished product out to get the best boutique deal he can.   If he were really daring he'd do something like Radiohead or Nine Inch Nails,  post it for free for a while then sell a high-quality FLAC download/CD/LP "deluxe" release, but that may be a bit much to ask him to consider.  Or maybe not:  Aretha Franklin is supposed to be doing something like that soon with her own self-produced/released new disc now that she's done with Arista and the whole "duets" thing.

I think in this day and age, most albums can't get away with only being slightly longer than an episode of Friends.  I'm just speculating but I think most albums that come out today range anywhere from 45-70 minutes on average. 

I believe you're wrong, at least in my experience (mostly pop and rock on indie labels with major label distribution deals). I realize hip hop albums tend to be long. Reissues, of course, are loaded with extras. But actual new releases by new acts, in my experience, are 35-45 minutes on average, with outliers, of course.

Because I really can be that anal, I decided to check some album durations. I've always got a few dozen discs at my coffee table in the living room, usually mostly new albums that either I've been listening to a lot or that I've gotten for review. These are those albums at the moment, with running times listed.

Sons & Daughters, This Gift (2008), 40 minutes
Mountain Goats, Heretic Pride (2008), 44 minutes
Puerto Muerto, I Was a Swallow (2008), 34 minutes
Under Byen & the Danish Radio Sinfonietta, Siamesisk (2008), 30 minutes
Foot Foot, Trumpet (2008), 55 minutes
Two Dark Birds, S/T (2008), 44 minutes
The Ruby Suns, Sea Lion (2008), 41 minutes
Euros Childs, Chops (2005), 33 minutes

Anyway, I'm going to quit this exercise now. But I think it's safe to say that the average album--at least in the indie pop/rock realm--isn't 45-70 minutes. Among these eight random discs, it's 40 minutes.

The timing "issue" is a red herring. Sorry. I can't see this being a reason why the album is delayed. On another note, I am excited by the inclusion of "Can't Wait Too Long," as it is the closest thing to an immediate "sequel" to SMiLe that Brian did circa 1967. Had SMiLe been finished then, "Can't Wait Too Long" would most likely have been part of the followup. This gives That Lucky Old Sun a nice sense of continuity...

It would be interesting if Brian picked up some of the other SMiLe out-takes, such as "Tones" and "Little Red Book." Maybe the sequel to Lucky Old Sun will be "Shortenin' Bread: A Dramaturgical Diad" featuring "Tones" and "With me Tonight" ;-)

B00tS!

Of course it's not - spurious in the extreme.

Maybe the delay is because they are going to flesh it out a bit more.  ::)

I personally think the delay is no more complicated then scheduling conflicts. They would be crazy not to record this.

Unfortunately, craziness defines the BB/BW world.  :P

Erm, I did! Though I don't share Brian's financial advisors...  :-\

Are you two talking about the running time discussion we've been having? If so, I don't think anyone really believes that is--or even hinted that it has been presented to be--the real reason. I, personally, have just been having a little fun with TonyW's comment that at 38 minutes, it's not long enough to be an album.

If by "timing 'issue'" you meant something else, well, disregard this post. And all of my posts. They will self-destruct in 3...2...1... [pow]