The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2257524,00.html

"The former 'tycoon of teen' also talks about the envy he felt from other musicians, including the Beach Boys, who tried to replicate his unique arrangements. 'I wish I had a nickel for every joint Brian Wilson smoked trying to work out how to get my "Be My Baby" sound,' he jokes."

Mean, but frickn' hilarious.

That was pretty funny actually, but I really don't think it took Brian all that long to figure out how to replicate that sound.  "He's A Doll" was around mid-'64 or so right?  He also did "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" and "Do You Wanna Dance" within about a year of "Be My Baby". 

So its not as if Brian spent years and years trying to capture that sound.  Within 2 years he had actually gone beyond it with Pet Sounds and such.

PS and SMiLE are light years beyond anything Spector accomplished! (Not meant as a put down to Spector, he was a good producer, but Wilson progressed way beyond Spector's sound)
I think Spector just has an attitude problem. He's the T.O. of aging rock and rollers. I bet he's jealous of Wilson's talent.

As much as a genius and visionary as Spector was, he lost all creativity after 'river deep, mountain high'

Never really made a great track after that.

isnt this guy in jail yet??

The trial ended in hung jury. He's going to face another trial soon--I think this spring.

Spector is a dick..Enough said..!!!  Lol. !!!

I actually prefer Let It Be...Naked, with all of Spector's production taken out, to the original.

oh man, I totally forgot about that Luther!

I too prefer Naked, I think Spector ruined the album tbh...

Amen. What an overrated asshole...

I like his stuff from 67-73. Some good Lennon, Harrison, Checkmates, and even Ronettes stuff was cut. Must agree about Let It Be thoughm the original versions are better. Naked is pretty goodm but I like the Get Back boot better because it feels closer to what they wanted then.

hear, hear.  the original 'get back' is terrifically exciting and raw.  spector's version is a big old highly polished turd, complete with angelic choir and insipid orchestral goo.

To me Spector is the greatest producer, perhaps even the greatest over-all musical genius. "Let it be" produced by him is far better than "Let it be...Naked". If you think Spector lost his muse after River Deep, check out his latest production work for Starsailor. Spector never lost his golden touch.

  Black Pearl

Add to that Try Some Buy Some (George's song sucks but the production is brilliant), Love is All I Have to Give, You Came You Saw You Conquered, all of the Dion album, Lord if You're a Woman, albums All Things Must Pass, Plastic Ono Band and Imagine.  And the Celine Dion stuff, still unreleased.

And I'm in the minority but I much prefer Spector's Let It Be to the Glyn Johns' version and to Let It Be Naked (with the exception of the overly orchestrated Long & winding Road).  He chose superior versions of many of the songs (compared to Johns') and made them sound well recorded, which Johns didn't do.  With LIBN I find it hard to get past the noise reduction which sucks the life out of every song and some of the edits (Don't Let Me Down).

There's very little of Spector's output that doesn't reach the "muddy" point for me.  BMB is one of the few that doesn't.  Muddy and same-y; he never did it for me.

Naked sounds good on vinyl (of course I would say that lol) but I thought it was a little too polished compared to Get Back. Let It Be (the Spector version) isn't bad exactly but Long and Widning Road is terrible and I think Across The Universe slowed down is no better the the WWF version that is sped up.

I prefer the slower Across the Universe but of course that's a matter of taste.  I don't see how anyone could prefer the sloppy performances of Dig a Pony and I've Got a Feeling from the Johns version to the rooftop versions Phil used, or the earlier take of Two of Us.  And he improved the mixes and sound on One After 909 and most of the other songs (like Blue) IMO.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Brian has repeatedly said that Let It Be is his favorite Beatles album, and it's the only one Phil produced (or "reproduced" for disc).  I think a liking of and appreciation for Spector's music is important to understand and fully appreciate Brian's music - not that someone can't not like Spector and love Brian, but since Brian reveres Spector to this day as a musical God (could a teenage symphony to God be for Spector?), I think there's nuances people miss if they don't love and understanc Spector's musical achievements.  I'm sure that will be a controversial position though.

I think some people just can't get into Spector's work because he's so bitter towards everyone. He has nothing nice to say about anyone. And I'm not saying that's a good reason to not like someone but I think that put's some people off.

I think to some degree he is over-rated by some people but especially by Brian. Seriously Be My Baby is a great song but it's not THAT great (ie: listening to it 100 times a day). He wrote some of the greatest songs of all time but I honestly believe Brian far surpassed him even if he himself won't say so. I respect Phil for his "wall of sound" but even then I think Brian took it to a new level.

But then again most of us here are all biased towards Brian. But I just 'feel the love' in Brian's records compared to Phil's. Just my take on things...

I agree with a lot of what you're saying...I think Brian idolizes Spector to the point where he sells himself short sometimes.  I don't remember where I read it, but Brian claimed in an interview (probably more than once) that he never topped "Be My Baby".  And honestly, like you pointed out, while "Be My Baby" is a great tune, I think Brian surpassed it many times over.  Even "Don't Worry Baby" is better, in my opinion.

I think its one of those things where the song isn't just a song to Brian...it was a life changing experience that laid out a challenge for him, and propelled him to be more creative and push the envelope.  Like you said, Brian far surpassed Phil by 65/66, and maybe Phil is bitter about it so he puts Brian down.

I like the older Spector stuff...the box set material and some of the Lennon stuff.

But I like Let It Be (naked) better that the original.

Brian had bettered Spector early on, but he continued to listen obsessively to the material, maybe to the point of being so enamored of it that he could no longer be objective.

I imagine that Spector would like to think that he should be personally credited with the success of Brian Wilson.

The thing I don't get...

the over-produced Spector version features joking around between tracks and "Maggie May"

and the raw "Naked" version is a normal album.

how DOES that MAKE SENSE?!

Spector is an ass but he has made some good records, his influence is perhaps more important in some ways than the actual records he did. We've had decades of great records influenced by him - some that come to mind are ones by Brian and the Boys, Roy Wood/Wizzard and Dave Edmunds, and every year comes a new single or album with a 'Spector sound'.
My favourite Spector album by far is Dion's 'Born to be with you' though thats just as much down to the songs and Dions amazing voice.

The original Johns versions incorporated the talking between tracks to give you the experience of "listening in" to the Beatles as they recorded, just the four of them (later just the 5 of them), live.  Phil kept the talking but then subverted the whole live concept by using overdubs on Long & Winding Road and I Me Mine - although to be fair the Beatles themselves subverted the original idea by overdubbing on Let It Be and Don't Let Me Down.

I think with hindsight Paul realized the talking stuff wore thin after a couple of listens and rightly cut it out of Naked.

Please, please, please somebody put me out of my misery and explain either the reasoning or at least your opinion behind this:

Why does everybody prefer the 'naked' or single version of "Let it Be" (the song) when the album version of Spector's had that SMOKING george Harrison guitar solo on it????  The moog solo or whatever it was is a COMPLETE letdown everytime I hear it, I honestly feel that's the best solo the Beatles ever played, and it's only available on the original Spector album.  Am I crazy?  Do people really prefer the anti-climatic moog just trudging through the chords compared to that blistering guitar track?

Put me down as preferring the Spector version.

With that said, though, I honestly think Brian contributed more to the field of production than Spector did.  Sure, Spector invented the wall of sound and had a great ear,  but the wall  of sound is flawed in that it's all recorded in the red and extremely muddy.... the modular recording Brian pushed on Good Vibrations has stood the test of time and is still how most music is recorded, and Brian's inventive concepts for song structures and the 'modular' album structure he was working with on SMiLE are much more impressive than Phil's work. 

Harrison's solo was good, but I think the appeal in the other version is the low key mood.

The solo in LIB wasn't a moog, it was a guitar feed through a Leslie speaker, wasn't it?

That's right.  Both solos are George on guitar.  According to Mark Lewisohn's book, both solos are on separate tracks on the original 8-track session reel.

I remember reading that both solos were on the same 8 track, yes... but still I much prefer the screaming guitar solo to the muted whatever the hell it is on all the other versions.  I was so dissapointed with 'Naked" when it didn't have that. 

I too prefer the "raw" guitar version of Let It Be.  It gives relief to the churchy sound of the rest of the song.


Matt-----is the Dion/Spector album really that good?  I've been tempted to buy it a couple of times but read mixed reviews.   I'm about to buy Bronx and Blue........which should I get first?  ( I do believe the Spector record is available---think I saw it at Borders not too long ago)

I didn't mean for this to turn into let's discuss Phil thread, but since that's what it's become, check out this recent photo of Phil and his 27 yr old wife:

http://www.tmz.com/2008/02/22/spector-kills-on-the-red-carpet/

I just don't understand the justice system. How do they let a suspected murderer out in public like that? He should be in jail.

He was a genius but the shadow he cast(s) over Brian is hugely unnecessary.

"with his living 27 year old blonde wife"

LOL  they had to mention that she was living.  Just goes to show there are some *stupid* women out there. 

Didn't he produce the Ramones End of the Century. That was a pretty good album IMO.

Im pretty sure they meant 'live-in'...as in they live together.

I know this is a bit of an old post, but I just had to reply:
THANK YOU, ROn, I thought I was the only one who preferred the "blistering guitar solo" by George on 'Let It Be' as opposed to that boring moog/organ bit on the single version, on Past Masters vol. 2. That guitar solo is just beautiful, really lyrical. It doesn't ruin the mood of that song, it enhances it.
Not only that, but I feel that Spector's string overdubs on 'I Me Mine' and 'Across The Universe' greatly improve the songs. 'Across The Universe' especially, considering that awful sped-up version that appears on Past Masters 2, with the irritating girls bg vocals. Thanks for ruining that song, Paul.
I do agree though that his overdubs on 'The Long And Winding Road' are over the top and annoying. The naked version is better.


And I totally agree with Brian surpassing Phil by about 1964 or so. Wall of Sound vs. Wave of Love. Spector may be a complete ass, but I do enjoy his productions quite a bit. Still, Brian is WAY better, and he probably doesn't even realize it.

 

Hmmm... I've always wondered that, does Brian really know or at least think he is/was better than Spector? The reason I wonder this is cause obviously Brian's not one to boast in interviews etc.. but I sometimes wonder if he really does think that he surpassed Spector?

No he has often commented that he never beat Spector. Of course I disagree.

Has Brian ever commented about how he felt about Spector's music going out of style and his career pretty much ending in 1966? I mean if Spector was truly superior to Brian he should have been able to adapt to the changing times and keep making great music. I'm a fan of Spector's later work but 'River Deep Mountain High' was the end of the party.

No Brian never has mentioned it , but I bet he collected Spector's later work.

Phil Spector layered tons of instruments on top of one another - frequently pounding out the same chords and rhythms.  Brian's stuff was much more intricately arranged, with interlocking lines, countermelodies, more color and texture.  Brian's approach was more sophisticated than Phil's by the time of "Summer Days."   Brian's arrangements actually started someplace and went someplace; Phil starts out ff and ends fff.   Phil made some OK records but that's about the extent of it.

And Brian should get a nickel for every actress Phil shot because "River Deep, Mountain High" was no "Good Vibrations".

Amen, brother.