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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Jon Stebbins on January 24, 2008, 11:30:09 AM



Title: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jon Stebbins on January 24, 2008, 11:30:09 AM
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003701480


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: DJ M on January 24, 2008, 05:34:58 PM
And Rolling Stone:

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/01/24/dennis-wilsons-pacific-ocean-blue-finally-reissued-after-fifteen-year-disappearance/



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: donald on January 25, 2008, 05:21:02 AM
I notice Jon is mentioned as a contributor to the liner notes.    So, Jon, have you written them yet?  The release date is said to be this coming May.   Can you give us an insiders scoop on the packaging and liner notes?


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jon Stebbins on January 25, 2008, 08:45:58 AM
I notice Jon is mentioned as a contributor to the liner notes.    So, Jon, have you written them yet?  The release date is said to be this coming May.   Can you give us an insiders scoop on the packaging and liner notes?

Sorry, I've said all I can for now.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: DJ M on February 04, 2008, 02:52:19 PM
From THE JOPLIN GLOBE (JOPLIN, Mo.)


http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/cnhientertainment/cnhinsentertainment_story_031172448.html?keyword=topstory

Dennis Wilson, best known as the drummer for the Beach Boys, younger brother to Brian and older brother to Carl, was a renowned womanizer and consumed as much drugs and booze as anyone in the ‘70s.

He hung with Charles Manson (before the whole mass-murder business) and partied so hard he frightened his then girlfriend Christine McVie and the rest of Fleetwood Mac — a considerable feat. By the time he released “Pacific Ocean Blue” in 1977, his only solo album, his voice was a bit ragged, and he was well on his way to being so burnt out that he would eventually die in an alcohol-related drowning in December 1983 at the age of 39.

I bought “Pacific Ocean Blue” on vinyl over the summer for a $1 at a church garage sale, attracted as much by the name “Wilson” as Dennis’ craggy, bearded face on the cover. The album has been out of print for almost 17 years now, but in May it’s being re-released in a re-mastered, double-disc set that’s rumored to include tracks from Wilson’s never-released follow-up “Bamboo.” I got around to listening to “Pacific Ocean Blue” a few months ago while reading the Brian Wilson biography “Catch a Wave: The Rise, Fall and Redemption of the Beach Boys’ Brian Wilson.” The author, Peter Ames Carlin, praised the album and Dennis Wilson.

At the time of its release, “Pacific Ocean Blue” received strong reviews and Brian Wilson enthusiastically endorsed it. Since then the album has only grown in esteem, even though Dennis Wilson distanced himself from it. Dennis was a truly underrated member of the Beach Boys as, it could be argued, was nearly every member who wasn’t Brian Wilson. (Except Mike Love.) Dennis’ crowning achievement was probably the sublime “Forever,” a song he wrote for the 1970s Beach Boys’ album “Sunflower,” and was ruined for me in the ‘90s by John Stamos.

“Pacific Ocean Blue” demonstrates flashes of brilliance but fails to be the singular, shining artistic statement fans want it to be. For one, there are too many banal excursions into rote ‘70s rock — “Friday Night,” the bumbling “Dreamer.” But the man is a Wilson and therefore it is his birthright to conjure beguiling, effortless melodies. One of my favorite songs on the album is “Moonshine,” a track that is little more than pure melody in search of an idea. “Thoughts of You” is a ragged love song that begins small and pretty with Dennis at the piano, passes into a druggy, claustrophobic middle section, and like a weary traveler returns to the beginning again with Dennis coaxing succor from the piano.

Considering that the last decade of Dennis Wilson’s life seemed to be about squandering talent, it’s easy to understand why people would want this album to be better than it is. Nothing is truly odious, but there’s little to make the argument for it being some kind of forgotten masterpiece. Perhaps the best song on the album is “Farewell My Friend”, a piercing, understated song that is both sad and uplifting: “Farewell my friend, I love you in a funny way.” It was played at his funeral.



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Mahalo on February 04, 2008, 03:41:19 PM
“Pacific Ocean Blue” demonstrates flashes of brilliance but fails to be the singular, shining artistic statement fans want it to be.

Wrong.

For one, there are too many banal excursions into rote ‘70s rock — “Friday Night,” the bumbling “Dreamer.”

Those two songs are incredible, perhaps my favorite on the record. Those songs would beat the crap out of most any BB song of the 70's or 80's in a wrestling match.

Nothing is truly odious, but there’s little to make the argument for it being some kind of forgotten masterpiece.

Wrong Again.

This album is a forgotten masterpiece in every sense of the thought......."Forgotten"..........

I can't wait for this to be on the market again. Not just as a Beach Boy fan, but as a fan of Rock and Roll. This album deserves to be recognized as a pure Rock and Roll album.......no fronts whatsoever (as the album cover conveys).....just what the doctor ordered ROCK AND ROLL!!!!!  :rock That is the charm of this record.....

Listen to Dreamer with the bass up and the volume cranked high and feel the power of that backbeat..........unreal....



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: the captain on February 04, 2008, 03:52:21 PM
I've got to say, I actually agreed with a lot of what that writer said. (I do like "Dreamer," though.)


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Aegir on February 04, 2008, 04:59:25 PM
“Pacific Ocean Blue” demonstrates flashes of brilliance but fails to be the singular, shining artistic statement fans want it to be.

Wrong.

For one, there are too many banal excursions into rote ‘70s rock — “Friday Night,” the bumbling “Dreamer.”

Those two songs are incredible, perhaps my favorite on the record. Those songs would beat the crap out of most any BB song of the 70's or 80's in a wrestling match.

Nothing is truly odious, but there’s little to make the argument for it being some kind of forgotten masterpiece.

Wrong Again.
I'm pretty sure opinions can't be wrong.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: the captain on February 04, 2008, 05:26:25 PM
I'm pretty sure opinions can't be wrong.

And that opinion is right. Except that if opinions can't be wrong, they can't be right either. So ... oh, damnit, I've confused myself!

(I really do amuse myself sometimes.)




Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Mr. Wilson on February 04, 2008, 05:29:00 PM
While i do not think its a masterpiece.. It is a fine record that Dennis could be proud of.. The music is strong + arraingments strong....But i do agree that sometimes lyrics wander in search of a stronger idea.. That said it deserves a wide loving audience..In this day + age i dont expect a huge seller but between cd sales + downloads Dennis"s music will now be available + live on Legit..As it should be..!!!!!!.. IT will sell.. Just get the word out + do some advertising.. Next is CW solo disks.. + live disk from 81 + 83


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Mahalo on February 04, 2008, 06:15:10 PM
I'm pretty sure opinions can't be wrong.

yes they can............for instance, it is my opinion that Milli Vanilli is the greatest band ever............... jk


listen, the author didn't once say, "It is my opinion..."

However, POB is a shining singular artistic statement, it is not "banal", and it may not be a "masterpiece" relative to some other releases,  but it is within the BB catalogue when compared to some of the dreck they put out........


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: the captain on February 04, 2008, 07:22:10 PM
listen, the author didn't once say, "It is my opinion..."

However, POB is a shining singular artistic statement, it is not "banal", and it may not be a "masterpiece" relative to some other releases,  but it is within the BB catalogue when compared to some of the dreck they put out........

On the former, writers don't say such things because it's obvious that's what they mean. Judgments of artistic merit can rarely or never be absolutely factual or objective--they're pretty much all opinion. But can you imagine how tedious stories would be if they were loaded with "I think that .... It's my opinion that... and so I also conclude that..." Journalists are taught to just say it. (As someone whose degree is journalism, I can vouch for that fact.)

On the latter, it is a masterpiece when compared to the BB catalogue of the time. But overall? Nah. It's a good record. One that deserves to be heard and back in print. But masterpiece is the sort of word that ought to be used on, say, a couple dozen albums total. POB, if it were a Beach Boys record, would be among their top half dozen or so.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Mahalo on February 04, 2008, 08:05:51 PM
On the former, writers don't say such things because it's obvious that's what they mean.

Understood.....and agreed....I thought that it was also understood that what I initially posted was my opinion too.....but, it is moot by now.

So can we at least agree that All For Nothing Milli Vanilli's debut album is a masterpiece??? Just Kidding, back to the topic of Dennis Wilson.....

Can't wait for this record to be re-released with some new material...the more people write about it the more intense the anticipation.......and it is only February........


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Aegir on February 05, 2008, 10:38:23 AM
I could go on and on about Milli Vanilli (how do you even KNOW the name of their first album), but my opinion about POB probably would've been alot better had I never read this board. Sure, it's a pretty good album, but MY GOODNESS people treat it like the second coming of Christ. The first song I heard on the album (besides River Song, in which I tried to imagine the Beach Boys singing on it and it sounded much better in my head) was Thoughts of You, which really does live up to the hype everyone's given it. Then I heard the rest of the album and I was kind of disappointed.

Better than 15 Big Ones? Of course.
Better than Love You? It's certainly smarter than Love You, but nowhere near as catchy.
As good as Pet Sounds and Smile? Not even close.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Mahalo on February 05, 2008, 12:28:23 PM
As good as Pet Sounds and Smile? Not even close.

I agree. POB is just a great Rock album that somehow has slipped the radar and is greatly anticipated by many in a rock market that has produced corporate crapola Rock music.....not that I'm a music snob.... >:D


To answer the Milli Vaniili question.........Wikipedia!!!!


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Dancing Bear on February 05, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
Dennis wasn't the best at finishing things. Maybe his mastework is the whole which will be included in this release, all the material he was working on between '76 and '79.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on February 05, 2008, 01:35:29 PM
In the strict (original) meaning of the word, yes, Pacific Ocean Blue is most definitely Dennis' masterpiece.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 05, 2008, 02:15:54 PM
I could go on and on about Milli Vanilli (how do you even KNOW the name of their first album), but my opinion about POB probably would've been alot better had I never read this board. Sure, it's a pretty good album, but MY GOODNESS people treat it like the second coming of Christ. The first song I heard on the album (besides River Song, in which I tried to imagine the Beach Boys singing on it and it sounded much better in my head) was Thoughts of You, which really does live up to the hype everyone's given it. Then I heard the rest of the album and I was kind of disappointed.

Better than 15 Big Ones? Of course.
Better than Love You? It's certainly smarter than Love You, but nowhere near as catchy.
As good as Pet Sounds and Smile? Not even close.

The hype? Man...that's a new one for POB. This LP has constantly been overlooked, even by most Brian Wilson aficionados. David Leaf gave MIU a better review than POB when it came out. Except for a core of us diehards who have been ranting on for decades...POB was ignored by Beach Boys fans in general. In fact, more people who cannot stand the typical Mike Love lead vocal BB's sound are the ones who embraced POB as a giant surprise and a very mature statement for the BB's. The normal comment was... wow, it sure doesn't sound as wimpy as most BB's music. POB appealed to an entirely different audience than the BB's, and no it was never really hyped. It did convert a lot of people into Dennis Wilson fans, but not enough to compete with Brian by a long shot. Now there's some hype on the BW front for sure. If River Song, or Moonshine, or Thoughts of You, or You and I, or Time or Rainbows had been written and produced by Brian Wilson people would be messing in their pants about it every day...forever. But they're just as happy to write it off as "okay but not great" because its Dennis and not Brian. Come on...the '88 BW LP got so much damn hype...even Imagination...and now Lucky Old Sun...such anticipation. These are all minor league statements compared to most of the songs and productions on POB. Talk about not even close.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jonas on February 05, 2008, 02:21:33 PM
Thanks for your opinion, Jon.


:p



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Awesoman on February 05, 2008, 02:34:36 PM
While i do not think its a masterpiece.. It is a fine record that Dennis could be proud of.. The music is strong + arraingments strong....But i do agree that sometimes lyrics wander in search of a stronger idea.. That said it deserves a wide loving audience..In this day + age i dont expect a huge seller but between cd sales + downloads Dennis"s music will now be available + live on Legit..As it should be..!!!!!!.. IT will sell.. Just get the word out + do some advertising.. Next is CW solo disks.. + live disk from 81 + 83


I always felt that Dennis' songwriting talents were never fully utilized.  Even in his best songs like "Forever" and "River Song" it always seemed like he didn't know where to go with it.  Much of his music tended to meander a bit.  I wonder what would have happened had he been able to get past the abuses in his life and focus on his music? 


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: the captain on February 05, 2008, 03:27:32 PM
The hype? Man...that's a new one for POB. This LP has constantly been overlooked, even by most Brian Wilson aficionados.

Jon, while I can't speak on this subject regarding the long-term (having only become a Beach Boys fan about a decade ago, and not really getting deep into the material until maybe seven years ago), I have to disagree with the above, at least from my experience. Since I began checking out the blueboard, then this board's predecessor, then this, then whatever else, virtually everyone whose opinions I've ever seen have been of the "POB is the best Beach Boys-related album after Pet Sounds" variety. Obviously, there hasn't been hype of the corporate variety, but as far as in this little world, it seems to me that POB gets a lot of it.

If River Song, or Moonshine, or Thoughts of You, or You and I, or Time or Rainbows had been written and produced by Brian Wilson people would be messing in their pants about it every day...forever. But they're just as happy to write it off as "okay but not great" because its Dennis and not Brian.

Honestly, sometimes I think that's how they treat them because Dennis Wilson wrote them. I wonder what they'd say if John Doe (no relation, Andrew!) wrote them. My personal guess is that they'd say, "wow, some of these songs are really good! This is a good album!" (But not a great one...) Would they love it if the songs weren't from "the handsome one" who was tough but had the sensitive image, too? I doubt it. Now I can't prove that anymore than anyone else can prove otherwise (unless we finance an anonymous release in some parallel universe, which I'd be happy to look into, but not to finance).

Come on...the '88 BW LP got so much damn hype...even Imagination...and now Lucky Old Sun...such anticipation. These are all minor league statements compared to most of the songs and productions on POB. Talk about not even close.

I actually agree on two out of three. But TLOS is better (for my taste, anyway) than POB. And that's what it comes down to--taste.



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Wilsonista on February 05, 2008, 04:39:54 PM
Luther is being a little hard on Dennis' work.  But that's OK. Mike Wheeler hated Dennis' stuff too.

POB overlooked? Come on, Jon you know that's not true.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: the captain on February 05, 2008, 05:00:10 PM
Luther is being a little hard on Dennis' work.  But that's OK. Mike Wheeler hated Dennis' stuff too.


Am I supposed to know who Mike Wheeler is? I know of these Mikes: Love, Jordan, Skinner, Richards, Huckabee...but Wheeler doesn't ring a bell.

Don't much care, just good to know when one is being insulted or complimented or whatever.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Wilsonista on February 05, 2008, 05:54:35 PM
Whoops.  pardon the history lesson, but here goes.

Mike Wheeler created the website that is now http://www.surfermoon.com

It was one of the first (datiing back to 1995) and for a long time the best Brian/Beach Boys website.  Wheeler was also an unapologetic Brianista, though I think he would bristle at the Blueboard mentality.  Wheeler hated Dennis' stiuff likening the ballads to the manipulative musings of a stud planning his next female conquest. Anyway, He got into working in the computer industry and his interest in Brian waned around the time of Stars and Stripes and Imagination. To him, Brian was so far above the BB as artists of integrity and seeing that Brian was as much of a sell out as the BB were might have disappointed him. He kept up payments for the url while turning over the operation of the message board to yours truly for a very brief period of time (I remember a certain Extremely Sexy Moderator being the cab.com whipping boy!)  and then Susan Lang with Andrew Gladwin for the various writings and imformational content. 


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: MBE on February 05, 2008, 05:58:34 PM
As someone who is a fan of the whole group I think I can be objective here. Brian and Dennis are my two favorites, but I guess that makes it easier for me to understand the devotion some people have to them.

 If I was to appraise the work from 1975 on, P.O.B. would have to be the best overall LP and most mature. I don't think it's Dennis at his very best because I like his performances better before his voice was damaged in 1974, but he made the gruffness work to a large extent-certainly far better then Brian. On the other hand it remains a brilliant LP, and I can't compare to anything else I ever heard period. That alone is a huge achievement. So do I think it's a little overhyped? Well I think some of it's shortcomings are overlooked, but all in all it deserves it's high standing.

Brian's post 1975 work on the other hand is WAY overhyped. I actually do think Smile was excellent, and did live up o what I hoped it would be but he never became a great singer again. Sometimes nice, sometimes professional, but not exceptional. I don't like his synth based productions from 76-97 much  Not that I am writing off all that material, but perhaps only a third of it is truly magnificent to me. I like about an albums worth of stuff he did in 76-77 but I think the good songs were spread far to thin on what was released. Love You is just not my thing, though the 88 LP is half great. The 94-95 stuff had a lot of potential, but once again what actually came out then (Orange Crate and Stars and Stripes) was very disappointing to me.

What does all this mean? Well obviously that I like 61-74 better, but beyond that they both have their respective camps who are gonna love anything has their names on it. I expect the new Dennis reissue to be very entertaining and I know some of it will knock me out, I also think the studio L.O.S. will have moments that I treasure. That said I also  know there will be moments on both where I will truly miss their unfettered voices.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Wilsonista on February 05, 2008, 06:18:52 PM
Mike, I think you're correct.  Dennis released very few out-and-out clunkers whereas Brian's work from 74 onward wasn't very consistent. That's not a problem that can be pinned on the BB solely -  I can think of several BB contemporaries who have suffered similar artistic fates.

Re: Brian. I think he can be compared to John Lennon.  John hit his peak in the mid-60's.  But since the Beatles broke, his work wasn't as consitent. Plastic Ono Band (another POB) and Imagine were brilliant records (that somehow also managed to turn off many Beatles fans with its brutal honesty - sound familair?). But there also records like Some Time In NYC (IMO,Tthe worst beatles solo record. Ever).  It's like both of them intentionally pulled back from what made them Great and became woefully incinsistent and maddeningly frustrating (for their fans) artists.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on February 05, 2008, 07:05:04 PM
First of all, I would never compare POB to LY or LOS because they are completely different. POB is more along the lines of Holland. Musically, it is probably a step ahead of Holland. But the vocals are much better on Holland.

But even though Dennis had a rough voice in the late 70s, the one thing he never lost was the emotion behind his voice. I think he had more heart in his singing then any of the other boys.

I think POB is a solid album (for anyone, not just the BB). I wouldn't say it is a masterpiece except for River Song. The way this song way produced and arranged is amazing IMO. I would put it just below Good Vibrations, Surfs Up, Heroes and Villains and God Only Knows.

Am I the only one that is blown away by River Song?


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: MBE on February 05, 2008, 07:41:58 PM
Mike, I think you're correct.  Dennis released very few out-and-out clunkers whereas Brian's work from 74 onward wasn't very consistent. That's not a problem that can be pinned on the BB solely -  I can think of several BB contemporaries who have suffered similar artistic fates.

Re: Brian. I think he can be compared to John Lennon.  John hit his peak in the mid-60's.  But since the Beatles broke, his work wasn't as consistent. Plastic Ono Band (another POB) and Imagine were brilliant records (that somehow also managed to turn off many Beatles fans with its brutal honesty - sound familiar?). But there also records like Some Time In NYC (IMO,Tthe worst Beatles solo record. Ever).  It's like both of them intentionally pulled back from what made them Great and became woefully incinsistent and maddeningly frustrating (for their fans) artists.

The Lennon example is good. I think the records like Sometime where Yoko sang are the worst, I just can't stand her voice. I think with the Beatles they balanced each other out. They all have had brilliant moments after the break up, but very inconsistent. I think with Brian and Dennis you additionally have the vocal damage to contend with, but I also think that the fact that the Beach Boys worked together well as a unit in the sixties and early 70s made a big difference. I guess because both groups set such a high standard for themselves their declines are far more jarring to us then any suffered by a route performer.

Magic_Transistor_Radio  River Song is brilliant and that's my point Dennis never did lose the passion in his voice whereas even the most dedicated Brian fan would admit he didn't put his heart into half of his post 1974 tracks.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: mikeyj on February 05, 2008, 08:37:22 PM
But even though Dennis had a rough voice in the late 70s, the one thing he never lost was the emotion behind his voice. I think he had more heart in his singing then any of the other boys.

Yes. This is something I have always said/thought too. I think Dennis had the most passion in his voice, Carl the beauty and Brian somewhere in between.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: jmc on February 06, 2008, 08:01:31 AM
I just listened to POB again yesterday and I have to agree with some of what was already said here.....tracks are great, but I wish the vocals were better.  By that I mean I wish Dennis's voice was closer to pre-1974 quality.  I feel that on some songs, even his gruff voice, which he worked well, sounds forced.  I love the album regardless, but as I'm listening to it, I can't get the thought out of mind of "how would this have sounded if...."  (his voice were better).  I know that is unfair and a bit selfish but it is only an opinion....oh well.  I do think his voice has a nice fit on River Song though.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: DJ M on February 06, 2008, 09:32:24 AM
The hype? Man...that's a new one for POB. This LP has constantly been overlooked, even by most Brian Wilson aficionados. David Leaf gave MIU a better review than POB when it came out. Except for a core of us diehards who have been ranting on for decades...POB was ignored by Beach Boys fans in general. In fact, more people who cannot stand the typical Mike Love lead vocal BB's sound are the ones who embraced POB as a giant surprise and a very mature statement for the BB's. The normal comment was... wow, it sure doesn't sound as wimpy as most BB's music. POB appealed to an entirely different audience than the BB's, and no it was never really hyped. It did convert a lot of people into Dennis Wilson fans, but not enough to compete with Brian by a long shot. Now there's some hype on the BW front for sure. If River Song, or Moonshine, or Thoughts of You, or You and I, or Time or Rainbows had been written and produced by Brian Wilson people would be messing in their pants about it every day...forever. But they're just as happy to write it off as "okay but not great" because its Dennis and not Brian. Come on...the '88 BW LP got so much damn hype...even Imagination...and now Lucky Old Sun...such anticipation. These are all minor league statements compared to most of the songs and productions on POB. Talk about not even close.

This is so right on point and so well said.  Amen, brother, amen!


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Dancing Bear on February 06, 2008, 10:33:14 AM
Beach Boys fans have this habit of looking at the song credits before deciding if they like a track. "It's no sin"  :)


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: the captain on February 06, 2008, 01:09:59 PM
Beach Boys fans have this habit of looking at the song credits before deciding if they like a track.

They also accuse everyone who disagrees with them of not being objective. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that "Smart Girls" and "Sumahuma" are the two best Beach Boys songs ever. All of the rest of you are suckers buying into the mythology, just trying to be hipsters.
 ;)



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jonas on February 06, 2008, 01:18:00 PM
Hey now, leave Sumahama out of this!


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Mahalo on February 06, 2008, 01:21:35 PM
They also accuse everyone who disagrees with them of not being objective. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that "Smart Girls" and "Sumahuma" are the two best Beach Boys songs ever.
 ;)

Dang, I almost spit my coffee all over the monitor when I read that, finally somebody recognizes the beauty and stunning melodic egineering of Sumahuma and Smart Girls....

I just listened to POB again yesterday and I have to agree with some of what was already said here.....tracks are great, but I wish the vocals were better. 

I can understand that....but there is an anger or attitude that is conveyed through the nicotine/coke laced vox on POB that I dig.....it worx better on Dreamer, Friday Night, Moonshine IMO compared to others I guess....


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: MBE on February 06, 2008, 08:42:43 PM
Dreamer and Friday Night are very suited to Dennis' later voice, but something like THoughts Of You is very sad for me because I know what it could have been three or four years before.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Magic Transistor Radio on February 07, 2008, 07:59:07 AM
Beach Boys fans have this habit of looking at the song credits before deciding if they like a track.

They also accuse everyone who disagrees with them of not being objective. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see that "Smart Girls" and "Sumahuma" are the two best Beach Boys songs ever. All of the rest of you are suckers buying into the mythology, just trying to be hipsters.
 ;)



I agree that Sumahama is a great song. It is one of the best on LALA with Good Timin, Baby Blue and Lady Lynda. For Mike, this is a masterpiece, but would just be another song for Dennis or Brian.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: DonnyL on February 12, 2008, 01:06:29 PM
that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 12, 2008, 04:20:39 PM
that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.
Right on Donny.



Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: adamghost on February 12, 2008, 07:39:16 PM
that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.

It's a really good point, and it's worth mentioning that reviews of both LOVE YOU and PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE in '77 were mixed (although more favorable to Dennis' album I think).  Both the albums, production-wise and songwriting-wise, were so far out of the mainstream at the time that judged by those expectations, people were left scratching their heads.  It's just that same quality that has helped them stand out as years have passed.  Earle Mankey, who engineered both those albums, deserves some credit for their distinctive sound.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 13, 2008, 09:25:39 AM
that fragmented, meandering quality is part of what makes Dennis Wilson's music wholly unique and most certainly among the greatest ever recorded.  He is a true original, a true artist, and he will be remembered and revered as long as there are people that listen to music.  my eyes teared up a bit when i found out this package is being released (the day before my birthday), and became even more overjoyed to find out that there will be a vinyl release as well.  I expect this package to do very well ... his day has come.

It's a really good point, and it's worth mentioning that reviews of both LOVE YOU and PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE in '77 were mixed (although more favorable to Dennis' album I think).  Both the albums, production-wise and songwriting-wise, were so far out of the mainstream at the time that judged by those expectations, people were left scratching their heads.  It's just that same quality that has helped them stand out as years have passed.  Earle Mankey, who engineered both those albums, deserves some credit for their distinctive sound.

I've gotta disagree with Adam's statement here, which is a rare thing...but i was an avid BB's fan and rock press reader in '77 and I don't recall the reviews of either Love You or POB being "mixed". Love You generally received bad reviews, and POB's reviews were pretty much glowing across the board. Rolling Stone was still the bible in '77 and they called POB "a truly wonderful and touching album." They called DW's vocals "strangely powerful and moving." They said "though the tunes are often little more than fragments they have a way of taking hold of your emotions...there's a sensitivity and vulnerability that is almost irresistible." And finally, "Pacific Ocean Blue is a distinctly personal statement and reveals Dennis Wilson to be a talented and gifted performer in his own right." Rolling Stone was by no means alone in their assessment...this LP was certainly a critical hit in its time. Of course there were those in the BB's/Brian Wilson world who gave it luke warm reviews because it didn't sound like the BB's, or it wasn't "happy" enough...but the national rock press was pretty knocked out by POB.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Wilsonista on February 13, 2008, 01:16:10 PM
Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of Love You. Lester Bangs called Love You "the best album the BB ever made".  Hardly a unanimous trashing.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: DJ M on February 13, 2008, 01:26:46 PM
Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of Love You. Lester Bangs called Love You "the best album the BB ever made".  Hardly a unanimous trashing.

Do you know where/when these reviews were published?  PS & LB are two of my favorite writers.


Title: Re: Dennis Wilson in Billboard
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 13, 2008, 03:08:33 PM
Patti Smith wrote a glowing review of Love You. Lester Bangs called Love You "the best album the BB ever made".  Hardly a unanimous trashing.
I remember Patti Smith's review and thinking that was pretty cool... that she got it. I also remember Love You getting slaughtered by more than a few writers...this made me sad because it was so much better than 15 BO.