The Smiley Smile Message Board

Brain seems to have a unique ability to expand his natural range and buzz it like a falsetto. On his recent albums, that's what we have heard. He piles track after track on top of one another until we have an entire Beach Boys-like harmony bed, but it is all Brian, and none of it is falsetto.

The last time I heard him use his real falsetto was on Orange Crate Art.

Is this a natural ability, or a studio one? After recording with Brian, Jimmy Buffett mentioned the "Brian Wilson trick."

I don't know much about voices, or timbres, or studio tricks, but I know that Brian has a very unique voice.

It's Natural. and I don't think that was the 'trick' Buffett was refering to.

but in his albums, doesnt he have jeff foskett layered behind him?

are there any songs in particular? id like to have a clearer idea of what you mean. :)

I think the "trick" that Jimmy Buffett was referring to is Brian's "doubling" the lead vocal.

Brian's falsetto isn't natural anymore; it's forced. Has been that way since the mid 1970's. Although a lot of fans would still like to hear the falsetto, myself included, Brian might feel slightly self conscious using it. Not because of the feminine thing, but because there aren't many singers in their mid/late 60's using it.

Brian hasn't sung a complete song in his falsetto voice in a while, but he has used it for notes and phrase. Some of the stuff on BWPS, "A Friend Like You", "Joy To The World", and that famous note on "The First Noel" to name a few.

I would disagree that he never uses his falsetto anymore.  Off the top of my head, he used it on "Saturday Morning in the City" during the "boys and girls...." bridge.  Kind of comedic...  He drifts up into falsetto notes a lot in songs as a little highlight, like when he does it at the end of "The First Noel", just one note or so falsetto, it actually sounds really good.

I'm pretty sure he's singing alot of the falsetto on "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl", too.  It's of course not pure and beautiful like it used to be, but still sounds nice.  

I agree with you that he usually just sings in a high head voice that buzzes a little bit.  

I can hear Jeff in "Midnight's Another Day" singing fills, but Brian's still singing the whole background bridge, with layers. A good example of what I meant by buzzing his natural range to sound like falsetto, but it isn't, is where he sings "until I find... midnight's another day..."

He has been doing this since at least 1985. The bridge in "I'm So Lonely" sounds like falsetto, but isn't. Brian has been using this technique of buzzing his voice, recording layer over layer to approximate his original sound for many years now.

Today, I listened way back in history, and it sounds like Brian has been using this trick since the mid 60s. The "Awake" demo features Brian singing in his real falsetto (but still doesn't sound like he's trying all that hard.) Then, I listened to "Let him Run Wild," and what I always thought was Brian's falsetto now sounds like him singing at the upper end of his natural range. I'm talking about the verses, of course - the "let him RUN!" fills are obviously falsetto.

I had a good friend back in the 70s who was a singer and a student of the art. His take on Brian was that he could move between his natural range and falsetto without any break in his voice whatsoever. So, maybe it's hard to tell when Brian is singing in falsetto, and when he isn't.

Yeah he sounded really good on "Forever She'll Be My Surfer Girl", it was nice hearing those high harmonies.

I think he definitely still has some form of a high voice...as you said, its probably more of a head voice than falsetto these days.  But for a 65 year old man, he can still, on occasion, hit notes with that same sweetness and purity that he used to.  It's just not as strong or effortless, and is pretty much confined to a studio setting where he can take the time to get it right.

The thing with Brian's 60's voice is that, like your friend said, he didn't have any break in his voice.  Most singers have a very discernable break between their natural chest voice, head voice and falsetto.  But Brian was a freak of nature essentially...he could move all over the place without any noticeable difference.  "Don't Worry Baby" is a really good example of this.  Most male singers have to jump between chest voice and falsetto throughout the song, but when Brian sang it, there was no break.  Still blows my mind.  I tried recording it once and to this day I hate how it sounds because you can clearly hear where my voice breaks and I had to go into falsetto.  Brian's voice really was one of a kind, that's for sure.

You are right in that Brian has always liked to layer voices to gain a fuller sound.  He was doing this with the Beach Boys almost from the beginning with their group harmonies, as well as the leads.  Of course, his voice was a lot stronger back then, and still sounded great solo without overdubbing of any kind.  But the technique definitely works to his advantage today. 

Yeah like "She Knows Me Too Well". I know I always mention that one, but that's just a great example of Brian's voice without any overdubs.

A couple of things.

1) I strongly doubt Buffett was referring to a double-tracked vocal as "the trick," considering it's been common practice in pop music for about 40+ years. There is nothing unusual about it whatsoever, and while I try as hard as I can to never, ever, ever hear any Jimmy Buffet music, I'm sure he's been doing it most of his career. I wouldn't be surprised if there actually was no "trick," to be honest--it sounds like the sort of thing you say to an interviewer that's B.S. "Hey, he even showed me his trick to making hits...but I can't tell you. It's a secret." Please...

2) Brian's lead on "She Knows Me Too Well" sounds double-tracked to me. In fact, I'd bet Jimmy Buffett's life on it. And so, sorry, mikeyj. it isn't "without any overdubs."

3) Yes, Brian definitely still uses falsetto. It just sounds about 100x worse than his youthful falsetto, with a grainy, almost hollow timbre (as is common in older people...sorry, but nature fucks us all eventually) and sketchier pitch. His pitch is shaky regardless, as any live boot or GIOMH will prove. But even when he's hitting notes in falsetto, it still isn't anywhere near his old tone. Part of the way he "solves" the problem is overdubbing the hell out of it. Instead of double-tracking, he's quadruple-tracking parts (according to himself, as far back as OCA) in order to make them sound fuller. Same concept as double-tracking, but adding more depth, and simple to do thanks to (no longer particularly modern) technology.

4) And yes, his studio albums feature a lot of tactful assistance from those members of his band who can still sing well consistently, especially on those higher parts.

5) Reminder: Jimmy Buffett is really, really bad.

I think this is actually an example of him very smoothly switching between voices. "When I watched you walk with him" is falsetto, but I don't think the next phrase is. The pattern is repeated in the next line. It's amazing how easily he does it, but I'm pretty certain that's what he's doing. The last lines before the first refrain are the opposite: "And now before he tries it, I hope" is not falsetto, while "you realize it" is.

You're absolutely right Luther.  As I was saying before, this is what abosolutely blows me away about Brian's 60's voice.  He could switch from chest voice to falsetto so seamlessly that you almost can't even tell.  It all sounds like he's using the same voice, but he's not.  Unreal. 

As great a singer as Carl was, he couldn't do that.  With almost every singer I've ever heard, you can hear a clear difference between the different voices when they change.  Brian was an oddity really.

As good as he can still sound on record for a 65 year old, it really is tragic how much he's lost in 40 years time.

Yes, but Brian had a lot to lose, if you know what I mean. His tone was so pure that it really could only have belonged to a young man. I know he did damage to his voice, but it seems like even if he hadn't, he'd have lost a lot of it just by aging anyway. His tone wasn't even as pure in 1968 as it had been earlier. Someone with a rougher voice doesn't show the signs of aging as much.

It's kind of like how a "pretty" man, with delicate features, ages much worse than a more rugged-looking man. I mean, Sir Paul, anyone?

Personally, I would have loved to hear a full-fledged collaboration between Brian and Jimmy Buffett.  South American is my favorite song from Imagination.

I think you're absolutely right about that. (The voice, not the attractiveness part. I can't say I have ever given much thought to how good-looking men's features age.) And your example of "the cute Beatle" is actually a good one vocally, too. I know people say he can still sing well, and he can...for a 64-year-old. Similar situation with Al Jardine. These guys who didn't ruin their voices have still lost a tremendous amount of their youthful vigor, so to speak. They can still belt 'em out, but there is just no realistic person with ears that function who could say they sound the same. It's nothing to be worried or offended about...just nature. They're old. We'll all (gods willing) get that way someday.

I shouldn't have used the example of guys' looks on a male-dominated board. And I probably shouldn't use this example either, but Tori Amos, who has always have a beautiful soprano but can also do some belting, is now in her 40s and starting to lose a bit of her vocal abilities--just a bit. And this is someone who never smoked, to my knowledge. In fact, she takes pains to preserve her voice, through an oil-rich diet and specially made teas. But she's also a road horse, and all that strain eventually catches up to a voice.

Yes, I agree that Paul doesn't sound the same...at all. Even when he did Tripping the Live Fantastic when he was in his late 40s, he sounded horrible trying to get up to those high notes. And these days, even his speaking voice seems to be kind of creaky. All in all, considering what he's done to it, I think Brian's voice is doing pretty well.

Nah, it's fine. We are secure enough in ourselves to admit who's attractive. I mean, what, am I going to step in and complain every time somebody mentions Dennis being hot? He was! As Elaine said to George on one Seinfeld episode, "You know, George, just admitting that another man is attractive doesn't actually make you gay."

Well, exactly. Women have no problem saying when other women are beautiful, but guys are different. "Oh, I don't notice those things." You don't have eyes?   :-D     

The subject of singers and their lost vocal range comes up now and then. Wonder if any studies have been done on whether anybody can lose range, not just singers, with the onset of age. After all, so many other parts of the body wear-out with age.
Of course smoking, drugs etc speed this up.

You mean do non-singers lose their vocal range? I'm 99.99999999999999% certain they do. I don't think the reason that singers lose range is from their singing; I just think we notice it because they sing.

That's very true.  As people age their speaking voices get lower in timbre, but you really don't think much of it.  It is much more noticeable in a singer, especially a singer who sang higher when he/she was young. 

Brian's speaking voice when he was young was quite high for a male, which is probably why he could easily sing so high.  Elton John is another good example.  He had a high speaking voice too, but really doesn't anymore (I'm sure the years of touring and throat sugery didn't help matters either).  It just happens unfortunately, no matter what you do to preserve your voice. 

Throat surgery? When was that?

1987, after Elton's Austrailian tour.  After that his falsetto was gone forever.

Thanks. Didn't recall that. May have been in the BW/ Landy 'bio' but not noted.

What strikes me as strange is the way Carls voice got better despite smoking. Go figure!

To be sure you're clear here, we're talking about Elton John having throat surgery. Not BW.

Everyone ages differently.  I saw Lou Christie a few months back on one of those PBS oldies revue shows and he still has a good falsetto.  Just curious, how's Frankie Valli's holding up these days.

Brian's voice sounds appropiate for his age.  My question is: if they rearranged the songs (most notably- Don't Worry Baby) to a lower key, could Brian hit the notes?

Well there are two issues. One is range, but the other is reliability of pitch. I think bw would do better with a song in a lower key, but live, he'd still have off days. That's just something we have to accept: sometimes he's off, these days.

Duh! ::)

I shall read slowly
I shall read slowly
I shall read slowly

(100 times)

I saw Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman on PBS recently. Burton has lost most of his upper range, even though, like Brian, he can still do the buzz so you know who he really is. Burton is 60, and he's been a heavy smoker/drinker/drug user most of his life, like Brian.

BTW, this a fabulous song and a fabulous performance:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZgG3dbsU

I'm 55, haven't smoked since I was 20, drink some, but don't do drugs, and I've lost a good part of my upper range. My heart tells me "just practice and it will come back" but my head tells me "it's over, baby."

Age kills the voice. Too many singers killed it before it's time. I read something somewhere years ago where Eric Clapton admitted using cocaine to make his voice rougher, so it would be more hip.

I'm a pretty decent singer,despite being a heavy smoker of various things (!), and I've noticed that my range has actually increased. Sadly, though, the smoking has killed my falsetto (one of the reasons why I've decided to give up the cigs), although I can sing higher using my "regular" singing  voice then I could even 5 years ago. My speaking voice, though, has gotten noticeably lower.

That's interesting...obviously the smoking will have some sort of detrimental effect, but increasing your normal range is surprising.  How old are you?  Usually an increase in range happens in younger years, when you are still able to practice and improve things rather than fighting against nature.  It's always a good thing though, even if your falsetto is gone.  At least you can make up a part of the difference.

My Mom has been a singer for many years, and smoking for 35 years definitely took a toll on her range.  She sings in a low alto now, and I can sing higher than her easily.  When she was my age (I'm 23), she was still an alto but could hit some higher notes.  So between the smoking and age, she has lost a fair amount of her range.  Her voice isn't as clear as it used to be either, although I suppose that could be just as much due to age as the smoking.  It's frustating for her though, especially now that she's at a point where she really can't ever get it back.  She always says that she wishes she had the range and tone that she used to have, but along with the improvements in her singing technique up to this point (if that makes any sense at all). 

That's why I do everything I can to try and preserve my voice...I've never smoked anything (I probably wouldn't anyways even if I didn't sing) and I try to stretch my voice by singing higher stuff than I'm really comfortable with.  The problem I have is that I have a naturally low speaking voice, so singing higher can be a bit of a struggle.  I have a decent falsetto, but it doesn't come easily like it did to Brian or Elton John; I have to work at it, and even though I hit the notes, I usually hate how it sounds.  I'm fighting against nature really...but like I said the nice thing about being younger is that I can still grow and improve my range, and enjoy it for hopefully 10-15 years before time starts to take its toll. 

29 . Oddly, my range  is better now then when I was in my early 20s, when I actually sang regularly  compared to now when I just sing to my  daughter or just jack around.

Back to Brian...one thing about his live singing is that you have to remember that he's not only deaf in that one ear, but I'm sure his hearing in his good ear isn't as good as it once was, mainly due to age. So that would affect his pitch a bit, I'd imagine. That said, he sounds GREAT on many of the TLOS shows I've heard, even singing some of the high parts pretty well.

Speaking of BW's voice, I was just listening to "This Isn't Love" from the "Roxy" cd, and I was very surprised. Brian sounded very good, in my opinion. It's not quite falsetto, but it's getting there. Hell, it's ten times better than I could ever do, and I'm only 22.  :lol

Honestly, non of the Beach Boys sang 'correctly'. Don't get me wrong, I love their singing. But most pop/rock singers don't. I think that if one uses their diaphram properly, the voice is much less strained. I have seen some opera singers in their 60s or 70s who still sound amazing. Plus from my own experience, when I sing the right way, my throat doesn't hurt. Just exausted from the type of breathing it takes to support. But after singing like the Beach Boys for awhile, it can start to hurt a bit.

i think this is the trick Buffett was referring to... not the doubling of parts, but the quadrupling... of ALL the background vocals.

I saw Frankie Valli at a multi-artist benefit concert in 2005, I think, and he sounded great.  In fact, he came on before Mike & Bruce, who were having some serious sound problems that night, and the audience response to Frankie was 10x more thunderous than for Mike & Bruce.  Frankie's backup vocalists are obviously lip-synching, but Frankie's vocals seem to be live, and are very close to the original vocals.

Sorry Luther.... I just read that somewhere, but you are probably right.

I just can't agree.  Cheeseburger in paradise is bad, but stuff like Come Monday and 'he went to paris' or whatever are pretty good!  Even "fins" is pretty good.  He's got at least 5 good songs.  LOL

I watch a TON of PBS concerts, and I want to point out that I don't think age attacks your tone but only your range, particularly the high end of your range.  There are 100's of singers who are in their 60's and 70's and can basically outsing the original track they recorded in the 50's or 60's.  TONS of them, but not that many that sang high, and certainly there weren't many people that sang as high as Brian did in the first place.

Guys like Andy Williams still sound everybit like they did in the 50's and 60's.  I'm not a big Andy Williams expert or anything but I saw him on something and he was amazing.  Guys like Jerry Butler still sound exactly like they used to, etc.  Lou Christie as mentioned still sounds great... Little Anthony is a walking jukebox, he's even still killing acapella stuff live with the imperials, who are all ancient.   

Considering it's no more complicated or unknown than double-tracking, I doubt that just as much as I doubted that it was double-tracking.

If Brian has a 'trick', it's his incredible ear for Harmony.  Everybody's probably read the story from Linda Rondstat when she talked about recording with Brian... Brian was laying the harmonies down, and then when he needed one last 'layer', he went over the the piano and played some crazy fast boogie woogie stuff like he likes to play, and sang a harmony line over the piano.  He goes back to the multi track and even though the song is much slower and a love song, the harmony fits in perfectly. 

Now *THAT*, is a trick!  You can see him do it on the little video they staged (maybe) on his website of him recording his Christmas album. 

That post captures the spirit of my thoughts on the "trick." That is, there isn't one. Brian is immensely gifted, has taught himself a lot over the years, has learned a lot over the years, and is good at writing, arranging and producing. There isn't a trick that Buffett (I still shudder even thinking of that name...so, so terrible) or anyone else could pick up and understand the secret. Yeah, there are doubtless dozens of things BW and any other experienced musician does that are cool. But "the trick"? Nah. It was just B.S. for the cameras. I'm as sure of it as a person who wasn't there and isn't privy to inside info can be.

That about sums up Brian Wilson fandom right there!   :-D

I agree mostly, but I honestly feel there are things that set Brian apart from any experienced musician.  I'm not saying he's the greatest of all time or anything, but he certainly approaches music, composition, and harmonic arrangements different than anybody else... and it's not something that can be taught, he has his own spin on things that is uniquely his and can be often imitated but never duplicated.  It takes him to great achievements and is also what weighs down some of his music. 

Much of what Brian does in the studio, be it recording producing or even writing probably comes naturally to him. His approach is different because he's taught himself and always had an interest in production and obviously a talent for it. He probably couldn't explain what it is that he does which is different to the "norm" because to Brian...what he does is "the norm".

As for cigarettes and voices, I know Phil Collins was told by his singing coach in the late 70's to give up the cigs or lose the ability to sing professionally. Some people are luckier than others. I know when I have been around people who are smoking, the next day my vocal range is the same "size" but transposed about half an octave down.

Virtually all adult males will have gaps in their range. Pavarotti often said that even the best opera singers have gaps, the trick is to know where they are and now to avoid the gaps so that nobody knows.  I would however wager that Brian in the mid 60's had smaller gaps than even most opera singers.

Today, for a man who is 65, Brian Wilson's voice is damned good...his singing voice is mostly intact. When you factor in the substance abuse and tobacco smoking and emotional turmoil he's been through...its quite amazing.

If his voice is 'mostly intact' - which I seriously doubt, and I've seen well over 20 BW gigs from 2002 to this year - then 90% of the time he's being very lazy about how he uses it. Brian gets cut a lot of slack because he's, well, Brian Wilson: I think it's instructive that we have to make a point of praising him when he hits a note properly, or even a whole phrase.

Yeah, I think a lot of it is laziness.  I can prove this by pointing to how a bunch of shows are great, a bunch are horrible.  There's no way the quality of his voice changes wildly from night to night, he just has some nights when he wants to sing and some when he doesn't. 

I agree about the laziness problem. Hell, that explains the GIOMH vocals right there.  I wouldn't say it's mostly intact, but he still sounds pretty good...when he cares. Notice how much better the vocals for "Live Let Live" are live compared to the studio version...guess Brian likes those lyrics better than VDP's.  It's obvious when Brian is actually trying and when he's not.  That said, he really shouldn't try to do "God Only Knows" anymore, as he completely butchers it much of the time for at least the past 4 years or so.

I actually think Brian's vocals sound better in the studio version (besides the really high parts like "we would implore").

His voice sounded very good (but nothing like his pre 1975 voice) when I saw him in 1999 and 2004. A lot of people consider those his best tours though so I guess I got lucky. GIOMH doesn't sound nearly as bad to me as his vocals (outside his 1988 solo album) of the Landy era. Yet I have heard live cuts from the last year or two that show he is getting pretty darn lazy on stage. Especally on the oldies.

One point I think I should make is that outside of one or two cuts from the mid 90's Paley tapes, and a few from the MIU era, I don't think Brian has been all that great of a singer since 1975.  Not always bad, sometimes pleasent, but nothing that would stick out to where someone could call him a great vocalist. Now don't get me wrong before 1975 I think he was one of the very best there was.

This is absolutely the point where I state that I wish Brian would let his band members take more lead vocals.  I dunno about giving up GOK - it's like McCartney not singing Yesterday.  The performance of GOK from 2005 Berkeley SMiLE and (especially) 2004 Chicago SMiLE were as good as anyone else's performances except for Carl's (coherent) performances.

I wish my voice was as good as Brian's....so does everyone in my household, including my dogs.

I say, do one more American tour, give it all you got, then retire from the road.........of course special appearances and performances would be great, but perhaps, dare I say it, it is time to settle down again and be a family man....but what do I know, other than I love his voice. Who cares if he sings out of key sometimes. :rock

Brian's performance of GOK at the Beacon Theater in NYC last year was so beautiful that we gave him a 5-minute standing ovation. He was flabbergasted, and quite moved.

I've never really liked the way Brian does "GOK". It sounds to forced to me..."You'll never NEED to doubt it, I'll make you so SURE about it". I don't even like the way Carl would sing "But life would still go *on*, believe me".

Although I agree that Paul's voice isn't quite as good as it used to be, I'm still quite impressed with how well it has held up.  Unlike most artists around his age who have retreated to singing much of their material in a lower key, Paul still sings all his songs in their original key signature; and for the most part, quite well.  I would never have suspected him to sing a song as daring as "Helter Skelter" in his 60's.  And if his songs like "House of Wax" and "That Was Me" off his most recent album indicate anything, he can still hold a candle vocally to younger pop stars of today. 

Paul's voice has improved  a lot since the 1989 tour when it was at it's very worst.

Disagree, Mike... I think his voice was MUCH worse around 1993. Of course, if you're singing pure sh*t like "Biker Like an Icon", it has a way of making sound terrible :lol Seriously, though, his voice sounded abysmal in '93. As bad as his 1993 live album was, I've heard tapes where it sounds even worse, if you can imagine, specifically one performance of "Kansas City" where it makes me wonder if HE got punched in the throat by a Love brother...

I think Paul has really made a big comeback vocally over the last 5-6 years, not that he was ever really terrible. His leads on Back In The USA Live are outstanding, especially on "Let Me Roll It", which might surpass the original version.

There are a few of Brian's (and Paul's) contemporaries who still sing pretty well. Paul Simon, Mick Jagger, and Ray Davies come to mind. An analysis of Bob Dylan's vocalizing would be an interesting exercise!

Paul's "Tripping the Live..." album was god awful.  I couldn't believe how horrible his vocals sounded.  He sounded like a cartoon character... it wasn't even that his voice had fallen, it was more like he had became a characature, or they were too whimsical or something.  I can't really explain it but I'm sure most have noticed it.

He did "Helter Skelter" on the Grammies a couple years ago (I think it was the grammies) when his previous album was out.  I could not believe it.  He played his single on piano, then stood up and said "WOULD YOU LIKE TAH RAWCK?" , put on the Beatle Bass and just broke right into it.  Amazing. 

It was still pretty bad in 1993.  Flaming Pie on it's gotten better.

I like Dylan's voice best 61-76, but though it's basically given out since 1989, I think his singing on his last three albums was decent. He has learned how to sing well with his rasp kind of like Dennis did. I also saw him in 1992 and in 2005 and he was much better vocally the second time.

He was having some throat problems during the 1989 tour due to a hectic schedule of excess touring.  For his 1993 tour he did not tour every night and tried to save his voice and (at least I felt) he sounded considerably better.  Tripping The Live Fantastic was his worst vocally.