The Smiley Smile Message Board

Here is a question that I repeatedly asked Bruce Johnston over on the Beach Boys Britain board that got me run off because everyone over there said it was ancient history and they were too busy asking Bruce his favorite color. So I will post it here.

Even before Carl left in mid-1981, I saw the BB in concert and Brian was attempting to sing Don't Worry Baby in his old falsetto voice. It was so bad that the crowd booed. Later when Carl was gone, he even attempted Darlin in the orginal key. WTF would the other Beach Boys seem to insist that Brian sing these numbers in concert when he so clearly wasn't able to. My personal opinion is that they were trying to humliate him (maybe into getting straight or just to get back at him). It made the enitre group look bad. But there he was, so obviously in pain, trying to do the impossible.

Any thoughts?

Bob Flory

PS - I remember seeing them in early 82 with out Brian or Carl and they did Be My Baby which Mike announced was from his new solo LP. He said "I won't say we haven't reheased this number enough , BUT, if you have to take a piss, now would be a good time."...........Great Times :(

And you wonder why Bruce never bothered to answer your question.  :-D

To everyone out there who says that the Mike and Bruce Travelling Jukebox Band (or whatever Malicki calls them) is a travesty, the Beach Boys in 1981-82 without Carl beat them by a long shot. The one-two punch of the Washington and Long Beach shows on July 4 and 5, 1981, are the worst Beach Boys shows EVER.

I of course didn't put it in that light when I asked him. I said why was Brian asked to sing when he couldn't do it?

Bob

I didn't know that Brian had to sing when Carl was still there, and Brian singing "Darlin'" is new for me too, at least they didn't perform it on the shows I have heard.

The Darlin' incident was told to me by a BB fan back then. It may not be accurate. But Don't Worry Baby happened right in front of me and it sounded like it did on the Queen Mary show later that year. And when I saw it, people booed Brian. And I could see Carl was upset by that saying something to effect of "Be Nice". I can't understand why they would let him sing it. Give the poor guy a break. He obviously didn't sing it well in rehearsal.

Bob

I don't think it was a thing where they wanted to sound bad to make Brian get straight. If that was the case Dennis would have been singing leads too. I think it was a mix of apathy, and caving in to the demand that Brian do more.

Yeah, you listen to some of those Mike and Al leads from that era, and they're sounding bored and slipping off-key a lot too.  Not as bad as Bri, but not up to professional standards, either.  And Adrian Baker's whiny falsetto?  WHOOO Lord! 

bump

I think that you pose an interesting question which I would be interested in knowing the answer to as well.

In that same clip, Brian does pull off the vocal ok, but only by changing the register he sings in, which actually made for a more interesting performance anyway.

Yeah at least he had the sense to drop it down to a place where he could sing it more comfortably.  You're right, it did make it more interesting, as he was probably making up the melody as he went along at that point.

I remember reading in "Catch a Wave" that one time during the early 80s Brian told a reporter he sings in the key of "BW". I wonder if that's the key he was singing in at that concert.  :lol

More like the key of "P.U.", 'cause it sure stunk.


:lol

I think "key of BW" is more profund than you think when discussing Brian's music.

And I think Brian was answering Derek Bill with that quote.

What I'd like to know is, why didn't they let Bruce sing "Don't Worry Baby"? At the Long Beach show, he tried to "double" Brian on the last verse. There are audience tapes that prove that Bruce was capable of singing falsetto around this time. There is something else I'd like to know about this era that's in Catch A Wave". There is one section in the book that states that Brian started asking for help in the middle of "Good Vibrations" at a 1982 concert, because he said he couldn't sing. Does this exist on tape?

I heard this happened during Don't Worry Baby when many people in the band including Brian had the flu. Foskett talked about it in Add Some Music. A Beach Boys fanzine of the time.

Actually, that was "God Only Knows".  Brian started it and failed, told Bruce to take over, Bruce suggested they sing it together, then announced "Jeffrey Foskett", and Jeff ran with it.  As far as I know, that show was not captured on tape.  And "Don't Worry Baby" was gone from the set by that time. 

What's kind of tragic about the Long Beach "Don't Worry Baby" is Brian had just finished singing "God Only Knows" and doing a very respectable job of it.  The "heys" at the end, which are like a man so far down a pit of sadness that he's practically emptied out, are particularly poignant and moving.

Then there's the show at the Greek the summer before, where Brian punched his mic and stalked off, leaving Al to sing "GOK".

This whole time is very sad -- I try to  not to think about it, because the band is really at its worst. I think everyone just wanted to believe that Brian could pull it off and save the band. I think he wanted to believe it too, because he was out there, by god, and willing himself to sing those songs. But sadly, he was not capable. He could not save the band or himself at that point. And that's heart-breaking.

Thanks you are right.

The next time "Don't Worry Baby" showed up in the setlist was in '84, with Carl singing the verses and Jeffrey singing the falsetto choruses.

You know, I talk about this time ALOT with other BB fans (Rev Bob, JeffH) cuz this was the time that made a lasting impression on me. I was in my late teens/early 20s and was a intern at several large stations here in Houston and got to see the group CLOSE UP. I would hang out at the hotel before the concert when the group was meeting at leave for the venue. I got to talk to backup band members (Sterling Smith and I had friends in common since we were both from Columbus, Ohio). Bruce Johnston (at that time) was as nice as he could be to a radio intern, spending literally hours talking to me about the band, and not for an interview, just to talk history. Mike Love acutally talked to me for an hour over the phone the same way. He was great! And again, no interview. Just BS stuff.

I also got to see Brian and Dennis at close range. I remember a touring band member offering me a toke off a joint. I remember (on purpose) staring at the joint, turning my head to the left and looking at Brian and Denny off to the side, and back and forth to make the band member catch my drift. He finally said "Hey, have a toke. You won't end up like them." I said "You promise?". "Um no." And then I said what only a 22 year old who doesn't know any better would say. I looked at all the backup band, who were either drinking or toking, pointed to Bri and Denny, and said "You all should be a shamed of yourselves for doing this in front of them." I know better now. I know one has nothing to do with the other. But as I said, that period was BRUTAL to a young BB/BW fan.

Bob

Bob -

Anything worth sharing from your long conversations with Bruce or Mike (or Sterling for that matter)?  Acedotes, musically-related or otherwise?

Thanks

Here are a couple I remember off the top of my head:

October, 1979:

Bruce was signing my PS LP when another "fan" (read groupie who was trying to get close to the band) pointed to Bruce on the back cover and asked when the pic was taken. I told her 1966. She turned to Bruce and said "S***. You guys are some old MF!" With that she turned and left with a backup band member.

Bruce sang me the opening of KTSA and said they had just started work on the new LP. Also told me Brian had cut soem tracks at Western that were killer! (we know now they weren't killer!).

I remember Brian coming downstairs and waiting for the other guys to gather so they could leave fro the venue. He waited MAYBE 5 minutes and then asked the limo driver to take him to the hall. When the other members gathered in the lobby, they said "I guess we are just waiting on Brian". Yours truly had to tell them Brian already left alone in the limo and just left them a town car to go in. While several of the guys got mad, Bruce was chuckling saying "You gotta love Brian. Honest to God, you gotta love him. If he wants to ride alone, he should!"

More to come.

Cool stories. Bruce has seemed to change over the years hasn't he.

That's one way to put it :/

I think that Bruce has changed. He has become a lot "harder" and I think that comes with the territory of working with this group. Mike Love is the "evil" one, but, I don't think that an "evil" person could write the lyrics to "Warmth Of The Sun", "Let The Wind Blow", "Only With You" and others. Jeff Foskett said it best in an interview that Mike became wary of everyone around him and became more cynical. When ever I get pissed at Mike (which I do ALOT), especially when I think about him in terms of SMiLE, I have to remember how I would feel if I saw my cousin and bandmate indulging himself, pulling away from his family, and hanging with a group of "losers" like the people back then. I'd be pissed and cranky too when they would be around. The lawsuits? You write the words to California Girls and be told they you aren't getting paid for them and your co-writer is not busting his ass to make it right (of course the co-writer's father is the whole reason why).

And, I know that the 60's were suppose to be this magical time when all the "groovyness" was happening (If I have to read one more Priore rant about that, I am gonna puke). But, come on. You go back and look at the Beautiful Dreamer DVD. With the exception of Van Dyke and David Anderle (who I respect more and more as tiem goes on), is there any of those people in Brian's group (Loren, Paul Robbins, Vosse, etc) that didn't want to make you take a shower afterwards. Loren will ALWAYS be a slimeball in my book. Loren cares about Loren. No one else. The way he acts is ALMOST socio-pathic. Brian tells about taking LSD and really freaking and being scared. To Loren, Brian's fear is a punchline to an joke. THAT moment alone says more about Loren than anythign else Leaf could do. And while these people may be heroes to Leaf, Priore and others, they are just leaches lookign to suck off of the most truly gifted  and most naive artists of our times. So if Mike or Bruce or anyone changes, there is always a reason. But, the reason doesn't excuse Mike or Bruce from there own actions against Brian. All the wrongs back and forth don't make a write.

Bob

The sixties were a cool time, but Brian fell in with a bad crowd. What Leaf and Priore fall to understand is that it was those men and not the Beach Boys that created the real problems.. I don't mean to disparage Domenic as a person because he also has some major problems with Leaf and his outlooks. I just don't hate the other Beach Boys and think he let's how he feels color some of his otherwise excellent research.

Mike seems to be more of decent person then Bruce perhaps because he knew what is was like to be kicked out of his house, and have his parents loose a considerable amount of money to where they had to struggle. Mike's attitude is partially motivated by those trauma's. To have nothing at all, he craves fiscal security and has let his obsession with it take him down some questinable roads. Bruce had a silver spoon in his mouth and seems to be just shallow and greedy. Mike still seems to have a decent streak in him, but (not counting his justified songwriting claims) has been far too litigious. Bruce used to be known as being fairly nice to fans. He still can be, but over the years has seemed to developed a genuine split personality. From talking to people that have worked with, he seems to have real problems emotionally. David Marks' book tells us a lot about that.

Yes- I agree with some of what you've said...But..it was 1967 "The Summer of Love."  When discussing Brian and "his crowd" in isolation, it is easy to forget that this behavior didn't happen in a vacum.   Most bands of that time were experimenting with chemicals and losing interest in the "single" and concentrating on ambitious albums- The Beatles "Sgt Pepper," The Stones "Satanic Majesties," The Byrds "Younger Than Yesterday and Notorious Byrd Brothers," Small faces, Donovan, Kinks "Something Else" and Village Green. The Who "Who Sell Out" and "Tommy" . I think that the problem Brian had in 67 had someting to do with the fact that the rest of the group was not on the same trip at all....They still wanted to go out and have fun like 1965, but it was 1967.  The fact that the group became uhip overnight, had to do with their failure to change with the times-as Brian wanted to do.  The group was still touring in striped shirts in Oct 1967! They really failed to understand the politics and profound changes in young people that occurred from 66-69.  It was only by embracing these changes in late 1970 that they began to turn things around.  Van Dyke Parks and that crowd were far more in tune with the scene in 67-71 than Mike Love. 

Im gonna come at this from different perspective..EXCEPT i generally agree with MOST statements...I grew up in those times and experienced the whole hippie love + peace thing + drugs..I didnt read about it ..I DID it...!! What bothers me about Loren is this:..When BW was wiggin out on  LSD + went in bedroom + buried his face in pillow + cried....NOT the time for BW to be alone.. He is LUCKY he is STILL here with us...Loren is an ASS..I used ALL the mind altering stuff from that period...EXcuse me..BW should not have been alone.. When your on a bum trip you need support + SOMETHING to bring U down..Alcohol Or downers...What scares u is the trip is runnin in your mind at 78.. When you started on 33 1/3.. It becomes overwelming...!!! Your engulfed..!! Thats why so many people killed themselves or became very different afterward..Examples..Syd Barrett..Peter Green..Jeremy Spencer..Danny Kirwain...BW..Pete Townsend.. Just off the top off my head.. The list is MUCH longer.. Loren may have been trippin but he still knew what was goin on...He blew BW off..When i saw that in BD.. I realized.. Loren is partially to blame..He wasnt there for BW.. And he laughs about it now..???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..Bw may have took it himself but loren wasnt there for him...Not the kind of friends Id want.. The one time i had a bad trip..I NEVER took it again..EVER..BW should have never takin it again...Thats HIS fault..And as far as all his friends bein losers..NAH.. Friends havin a good time + usin him to pay for the highs.. I think they did help  him expanded musically... See beyond Hawthorne.. There is picture in Leaf book of BW in book store on hollywood blvd.. Take a good look at the books in his hands + on shelves..BW was reading amazing stuff and i think he was becoming a heavyweight..But something happened.. And he changed..I could post more  but ill wait for response.. This is a sore subject to me..What was.. what is..What it could have been..

My point exactly. I didn't do ANY drugs at all. Even though all around me seemed to be. I was a straight!. But, I met many, many, many people like Loren when I was growing up as a teen in the 70s. That kind of arrogant "I know all, see all,take this to expand your mind" kinda guys. And then they would have fun at the person's exerpience when they were high.

I do have to relate one story that still makes me smile to this day. I was at a party in '76 (I was 17) and everyoen was higher than SkyLab at the time. And some of the guys were hitting on my girlfirend, hoping to get her stoned so they could....you know. Any way, I asked if I could put on some BB music. As they were making a comeback at this time, everyone said yeah!!!! Could I turn out the lights? Yeah!!! So I proceed to put on my own mix of Cool Cool Water.  The opening part went find and everyone was grooving. Then the water chant hit. I expanded out the Water Chant section to about 2 mins at the radio station studio I was interning at. With the lights out, the stoners were coming unglued. "Bob, Bob, what is this????? I am freaking out!!! Bob........" I flipped on the light as the "Cool Cool cooling me" started, saying an inocent "What? Whats wrong. Its the BB for gosh sakes!"

Everyone was shook for the rest of the evening. Everyone but my girlfriend and me.

Bob

Great story, Bob!

Mr. Wilson: I think I can agree with your assesment. I wasn't even born in the 60's, but I think when discussing the effects of drugs and the culture on Brian, I think it's better to defer to someone who was actually young during the 60's and who actually participated in the culture to provide an understanding for the figures that seem now to be "undesirables".  Just dismissing the Posse outright (and using them as THE SOLE example for the counterculture) is the same as not giving that era a fair trial.  Someone like our friend Bob Hanes could and has posted about the clash of the Hawthorne/60's Sunset Strip cultures.

Interesting.. Stoners flip out on CCW..??!!..LOL..!!..That song should cool you out not wig out...Also back then Surfs Up + Holland were COOl Lp's to smoke herb to..Very Common in those days...And i totally agree with Ian about what he posted
We were INNOCENT back then..We were breaking new ground..NO LIMITS... I kinda miss those times..Exciting..Brave new world..BUT..The hard drugs gotta go..Look what we got now..In the world.. Yea Bob Hanes is good dude..talked to him on phone couple of times..Played me some stuff..A few yrs ago..He made me aware that Little Bird has BW uncredited co writer + there are snippets of SMILE in mid section i believe....Great to be posting on this board again..!!..Its been 4 1/2 yrs..Peace to all..Paul

I think Mr. Wilson pointed some of this out but I think it's partially  the environment in which Brian experimented as opposed to the experimenting itself. Most of these guys jumped on Brian's bandwagon without giving much back. Loren is the worst expample easily. People like Van Dyke were a different story as they worked hard to keep Brian on track.

The Beach Boys belong in the positive category because they also worked very hard. Brian sometimes wore hip clothes as did all the group, but mainly he wore tee shirts and white slacks. If you notice in 1970-72 he is the one that has changed the least as far as his appearance. He was wearing the stripped shirts right along with them in  1967 in Hawaii so I don't really think he was any more in tune with the times then they were or any less. Brian was just in tune with himself and what was going on in his head was very advanced. Some of it went over the Beach Boys head, but they did fall back in sync with each other soon enough. Much of what they did in the late sixties as a group (one that still included Brian in a key role) was also ahead of it's time. Brian himself told me that it was a very good time for the group creatively.

Listening to interviews with Mike and the rest from the late sixties he was and the rest were very in tune with the times. They just didn't change enough externally, and didn't want to jump on any trends that weren't true to themselves.  All those albums you mentioned are great though I would argue that Something Else and Sell Out are pop in the best possible sense of the word and both had hit singles. Among this group, I don't think Wild Honey or Friends was out of place at all, it was simply the American market not willing to let the Beach Boys to expand. Remember they were seen as cutting edge in the rest of the world at this time. What happened in late 1970 is that they played up to the hippie market more, but their music had stayed advanced the whole time.

LOL..!! Everyone was higher than Skylab...JEEZ..Thats FUNNY...!!!

I haven't read the David Marks book (plan to eventually) or talked to anyone "in the know" but Bruce never seemed like a bad person to me. Sure, he was born into money but he's never seemed all that bad to me in any videos or anything. But I guess I just don't know as much. What has he done?