The Smiley Smile Message Board

Was there a reason that Carl was never the main producer after Holland? I know that Brian made a brief come back in the mid 70s. But after that they asked Bruce to be their producer. I thought that Bruce was good, but would've loved to see what Carl could've done with LAL, KTSA, BB85, etc.

It seemed like everyone was on board with him producing, including the Love faction in 73, right? Did they ever consider Carl as the main producer again?

I think there were several reasons Carl quit producing the group's records.

1.) He ceded the role in Brian in the mid-70s. Brian managed a hit on 15 Big Ones, something Carl had never achieved.

2.) Mike helped out with "Endless Summer" around the same time and brought in a lot of new fans for the group as an oldies act.

3.) Carl was still a force to be reckoned with in the studio through BB 85. That record, honestly, rises and falls on Carl's contributions -- which are greater than anyone's. I expect Carl thought of that album as practically being his anyway (and the fact he used Steve Levine as producer on Beckley Lamm Wilson suggests the two were tight).

4.) BB 85 tanked, except for the Love-Melcher cowrite. After Kokomo, that was it for any meaningful songwriting contribution from Car.

Ummmmmmmmm... exactly which tracks did Mike help produce on Endless Summer ? I'm working from memory here, but even so I keep coming up with a figure of less than one.  ::)

I think that once the aforementioned comp was such a success, it might have given everyone pause for thought... and don't forget that Carl did substantial (if inaccurately credited) work on Love You at a time when he was also co-producing Ricci Martin's album with Billy Hinsche. MIU was a post-rift project directed by the then-ascendant TM axis, and of course there was the famous comment and subsequent phone call that brought Bruce back on board for Light Album. On KTSA he did some basic work with Randy Bachman on their two tracks on the album, and thereafter he concentrated on his solo career (such as it was).

In brief, once the creativity went out of the band, the driving spark in Carl dimmed. Shame - he did some sterling work 1968-72.

Too bad he didn't produce his own solo albums. THe Flame and Beached are much better efforts. Also if you think about it he was the best, co-producer Brian ever had. The work he helped Brian complete from 1968-72 brought out the best in both brothers.  As Desper has said it was Carl who helped Brian adjust to stereo during those years. AGD is right about that being his peak.

Carl also co-produced some of the "Light Album", such as "Good Timin'" (probably coproducing the basic track from '74 with Jimmy G.) and "Angel Come Home" (again probably the basic track, which was probably from '77).  He may or may not have had producing input into his two new songs, "Goin' South" and "Full Sail". 

Andrew: I meant "helping out" in terms of coming up with the title -- making it more than just another hits comp. Mike has claimed that he was behind that. I don't know if he was or not, but he certainly took credit -- and an album full of old songs was certain to feature more of his leads than were on some 70s BB albums.

Didn't Mike also have some input into choosing the songs for "ES"?  Maybe not, but I seem to recall that he did for that one, but not for the next year's "Spirit Of America". 

I also wondered about this quite often.

I agree. I am not a very big fan of most of Carl's solo work. That is mainly because of the production. Heaven and I Wish for You are highlights. In fact I think Carl was a better producer then song writer.

Any fans of Livin' With A Heartbreak?  What a nice tune...very relaxing and meaningful...the best song on KTSA.

I'm a fan. And, yes, I agree with you. It might be the best song on KTSA. Because the album has not been critically received, Carl's vocal work on KTSA has not gotten enough credit.

I actually saw "Livin' With A Heartache" performed live at the Philadelphia Spectrum in June 1980. It was released as a single. I think there's even a single edit...

 

Leo K, you know I like it. Like that whole album, could've been improved (esp production), but it's a cool song.

It's one of the better songs on the album. However, it is far from Carl's best IMO and this is when the band was turning into an adult contemporary group.

Having said that, KTSA has really grown on me as an album. Nothing great, but still a nice album.

It makes sense that they'd become adult contemporary, really, considering their age. Not many bands with about 20 years behind them have avoided that. And at least it was still new music (sort of).

I actually heard "Heartache" on the radio (at least once).  I also remember hearing "Goin' On" once, but oddly enough, not until 1983.  These were both small radio stations in western Nebraska.

I bet I would like the single edit better of that song as it goes on too long. I never bothered to buy it but perhaps I should.

Yeh I quite like KTSA now. I hated it at first, which I think is only natural after hearing Sunflower, Surf's Up, Friends, Pet Sounds, Holland and then..... KTSA. But I really dig the album overall. I'm a fan of Livin With A Heartache. Only School Days sucks and I've never been a big fan of Sunshine to be honest. And I think I must be one of the only people in the world (besides Bruce + his mum) who doesn't mind Endless Harmony. Of course it's not great, but if you ignore the lyrics then I think its an okay song.

You were at that show? That's actually my favourite I've ever heard.

BTW I love "Livin' With A Heartache", it's a great rock love song with a country style.

Man, sounds like a great show...how does the live version of Livin' With A Heartache compare to the studio?

Overall, KTSA has a few good moments...my favorites are the title track, Oh Darlin, Livin' With A Heartache, Sunshine and Goin On.

Livin' With A Heartache has a great performance, a more fuller production could possibly improve the impact, theres room for a steel petal in there.

Oh Darlin also could be a great song with a different production...it's fun to imagine how it could be arranged...it has potential to be glorious, like God Only Knows.  Possibly better...

Endless Harmony is my favorite song on it! The first half is ok, but the second half is excellent.

I actually like Santa Anna Winds. Al Jardines voice is a little annoying on it, but I really like the base guitar and the countryish style.

It's a stand-up bass, not a bass guitar.  And it is very nice.  :)

It sounds like they were striving for a "God Only Knows" type of sound for "Oh Darlin'", but what we have is apparently the best they could do.  Not bad, but not glorious.

In my mind, Santa Ana Winds has a great melody and beat, but the original lyrics blow the released ones away. I guess Al was going for the ecological concept there, but the originals made so much sense. This was 1 song I was really hoping Al would go back to with the original lyrics on his solo album

I find the original lyric forced to the point of being clunky.

At certain points in  the song I agree with you, there is some awkward phrasings in the original lyrics

Did you ever notice that Strange Things Happen to Al Jardine-involved tracks...

- "Help Me Rhonda" was released as two different versions

- "Then I Kissed Her", recorded in 1965, was released as a single AFTER Good Vibrations in 1967

- "Cottonfields" of all songs, had two different versions with two different producers

- "Susie Cincinnatti" came out two different times, six years apart

- "Come Go With Me" was recorded and (incorrectly) released on CD as two different versions

- "Honkin' Down The Highway"'s drum intro got cut on the first CD release

- "Bells Of Paris"/"The Bells Of Christmas" has two different lead vocalists

- "Christmastime Is Here Again" became "Peggy Sue"

- "Peggy Sue" came out with the wrong mix on CD, then corrected

- "Winds Of Change" - see "Peggy Sue" entry

- "Lady Lynda" became "Lady Liberty"

- "Runaway" was recorded live and was supposed to be a single - scratched

- "Buzz Buzz Buzz" - of all the oldies to chose to sing in concert?

- "Loop De Loop" was recorded, became "Santa's Got An Airplane", and then, decades later, re-recorded again(in parts)


I don't know what any of that means, just wanted to mention it. OK, continue.....



 

Phew!! Somebody else who doesn't mind that song. I wouldn't say it was my favourite. I would say santa Ana Winds is my favourite track on the album, but I just don't mind Endless Harmony and find it strange that it seems like almost everybody HATES the song.

The thing with "Endless Harmony" is that the first half is so over-the-top cheesy that, for me, it's almost unlistenable.  But once Carl comes in, I love it; the great harmonies, and especially the "Brian" falsetto part leading into the chromatic harmonies at the end.  So good that it almost makes up for the first part.

Yeh I agree that it is pretty cheesy. But they were coming up with some pretty big cheese around then, which makes it a bit easier, for me anyway