The Smiley Smile Message Board

I just read on the BBB Board that Chris Farmer has "retired" from the band.  I am really, really bummed out about this.  Chris was the longest running band member left, having been there since 1995.  There is now only one band member left who was with the band prior to Carl's passing and Al's departure: Tim Bonhomme.

I'm not sure if Chris actually retired, or if he was asked to retire like so many in the past.  Either way, it's a big, big loss for the group.  His "Sail On Sailor" was on par with Billy Hinsche's and Bobby Figueroa's.  His "You're So Good To Me" was great, and his "Good Timin" was far superior to John Stamos' or Christian Love's versions.

I remember thinking this past summer that both Chris and Randell Kirsch seemed to be in danger of "retiring" because they had both been relegated to the back line and replaced with the younger Christian Love and John Stamos (during the summer shows) in the front line.  Both of them had leads taken away.  Randell lost "Good Vibrations" to Christian, and Chris lost "Then I Kissed Her", "Good Timin", and others to Christian and/or John.  But I thought that with Kowalski gone and the band already one man down, that Chris was safe.  But I guess not.

Does anyone in the know know what actually happened?

I think I speak for everyone here when I say... WTF?!

I absolutely agree, Chris Farmer has such a great voice and seems to be very gentle.

Exactly... couldn't have said it better myself

Who is the musical director in the band then?  Who's playing bass?  Who's singing Chris' harmony parts?

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever....

This is from Susan, over on Shut Down:

"All i know is that it was NOT dictated by finances.

Totten becomes MD and Randell moves to bass."

This is getting silly.

Bring in another son of Mike Love and let's call them the Love Boys!  ;D

The one thing that could have cheered me up regarding this news was for Scott to become the Musical Director, and I'm very glad he did.  He has a genuine love for the music, he's been a big BB/BW fan for years, and he's a great musician.  On top of that, he's a really great guy and very personable with the fans.  He will do a great job!  I have also been assured that Randell is in no danger of leaving, so there should be no more surprises this year!

Did we ever find out who's gonna play piano, since Cowsill is now on drums?

 :grouphug This is starting to sound less like The Beach Boys and more like government.  :police: People leaving office (the band) and being replaced. For me the only members that matter are Mike, Bruce, Carl, Denny, Brian, and Al.  :bow Anyone else is just "filler". After Carl's passing, the band seems to have lost it's energy and passion. Mike these days is looking more like  :old

How long before Jon Stebbins chimes in to remind us that David Marks was on the first few albums?

How long before you realize what a dumb remark that was and log on to try to down play it? David Marks was an original Beach Boy who played on the first 4 LP's and on the first wave of national hits...he was playing music with the Wilsons long before Al and Bruce, and had more to do with the initial national success of the Beach Boys than either Al or Bruce. There's a good book out there that conclusively proves this titled The Lost Beach Boy. Read it.

:lol

Jon, I realize that David was a very important piece of the Beach Boys early on.  I think most of us do.  When I saw this person's post, and he didn't mention David, I just had to respond.  I was just having a little fun, man.  I do plan on reading your book, and if I could find your book about Dennis, I would read that one, too.  I didn't mean any harm.

Fifteen minutes and twenty seconds.

I was just having some fun too. Your post came up while I was writing mine...so the timing was perfect. No offense taken.

Wow, more line-up changes in Mike and Bruce's Beach Boys show!
Sometimes shake-ups are good though. It is sad about veteran Mike Kowalski departing, but I think the band will only benefit with Cowsill behind the kit. Drums (and vocals) are where he belongs and truly shines anyway. I also believe that Scott Totten will do a great job as "Musical Director". He has a great BB knowledge with the musical chops to back it up. In the many conversations I have had with Scott, not only have I found him to be a great guy, he also loves to include the lesser known goodies (Let Him Run Wild, Heroes and Villians etc), so perhaps he can encourage Mike Love to keep the setlist fresh (though they certainly have done a respectable job of that in the last few years). I also recall him posting on the Blueboard regarding the guitar intro to Wouldn't It Be Nice. From his post there I came away with an appreciation of how faithful he tries to be in reconstructing Brian Wilson's musical complexities.
I look forward to catching this new line-up whenever they are in the general neighborhood. In the last two years alone I have had the pleaure of seeing them five times, and they have always put on a very entertaining show.

...On the flipside with Chris out and Randell moving to bass, they are down a guitar player / vocalist. Perhaps someone could call Al Jardine (or David Marks for that matter) as I hear both of them have a few skills they may be able to offer ;-). Seriously though, I bet they band will continue to sound great and I wish Farmer all the best.

That would certainly seem to thin out the harmonies a lot as Chris was an integral vocal part. David would more than filll any guitar void, but does he want to play such a grueling schedule and he was never that much of a singer. Not that he couldn't, just never seemed as interested in it the times I have seen him play.  There is certainly someone who can fill the void...he is about 5'6", plays rhythm guitar, sings some mean harmony, and does have some Beach Boys experience.  BUT I don't see that one happening!

Farmer was a hell of a dude and all the times I talked to him he was extermly well rounded and a flat out awesome singer.  Now the band is down a baritone voice in this worries me a bit.  Im sure randell will do awesome on the bass, and scott will do a hell of a job as far as being the MD.  I cant wait to see them, this will certainly make it very interesting.

As a runner at Chastain Park I got to drive the "Beach Boys Band" (not including Mike and Bruce) from their hotel to the venue and chatted with Chris for the whole ride back in 2004.  He was a very nice guy and I enjoyed talking to him.  Shame he won't be with the touring group anymore but hopefully this is the direction he wanted to go.

Well with all due respect, this hasn't been the Beach Boys since 1998; at least that's what most fans would say...

I have to chime in, mostly based on the last post before mine (about when it was last "the Beach Boys"). Personally, it doesn't matter to me at all which hired sidemen perform with the Beach Boys. There are literally hundreds--if not more--people who are capable of doing what those people do. And because whoever does it almost certainly won't have any meaningful input into creating any new music--or even radically reinventing old music--I tend to think it's a moot point for my Beach Boys experience.

That said, there are a lot of people who go see the band called the Beach Boys. So I hope the band is reorganized into a quality touring act that can keep the interest of those who are into it.

This has been debated so often that it is amazing that it continues to be discussed.  Personally, I have nothing against Mike Love touring with the people he tours with.  But when you go out on tour as a well-known band and you're the only original member in the group with a bunch of sidemen, it's kind of hard to swallow that this group is authentic...even if it's legally said so.  As argued many times before: it's like Paul McCartney going out with his current touring band and calling himself the Beatles.  Sure, the Beach Boys have had revolving members since the band formed; but up until Carl Wilson's passing and Al Jardine's being removed from the band, there was a significant level of authenticity in the group.  Now it's just Mike and Bruce leading the pack.  While I don't have a problem with them still touring (even under the Beach Boys' name), the "Beach Boys" as far as I see have long ceased to exist as a true band. 

No Wilsons - No Beach Boys. End of argument.

There are tens of thousands - hundreds of thousands - of people who would disagree with you every year.

We are the minority, really, we who populate these boards.  So our perception is necessarily skewed. 

Mike's show makes a hell of a lot of people happy, and they walk away glad to have been made happy by The Beach Boys.  Who are we to argue with thousands of happy people???

I saw Paul McCartney live last year. Does that mean i've seen the Beatles?

It doesn't matter whether it makes tens of thousands, or even millions, of people happy - what's that got to do with anything?!?? So it's entertaining - that's great! But it's not the Beach Boys. No Brian. No Carl. No Dennis. No Al. How can that be the Beach Boys...? Your argument is meaningless....

One original member out of five - that ain't the Beach Boys, it's the Beach BOY. I thank you.

The thing is, thomasogg, that's just an opinion. And so it doesn't matter. It's an opinion that I personally share, but it's no more valid than any of the others' opinions. To me, a Wilsonless band isn't the Beach Boys. To the courts, it is.

As for the original members making it the band, that argument is pretty weak.  It isn't the original Beach Boys, but then neither was the group that recorded their best album, Pet Sounds.

After that, you get into personal preferences and lines drawn in the sand based on personal preferences and judgment calls. What if Carl and Dennis were in the band, but not Brian. Beach Boys? What about Carl, Dennis and Brian, but no Mike or Al or Bruce. Beach Boys? Al, Bruce and Mike. Beach Boys? Brian and Bruce. Beach Boys? David, Ricky, Blondie. The Captain (with or without Tenille), for that matter. It goes on ad infinitum, and it is equally meaningless.

They are the Beach Boys if they are legally the Beach Boys (which they are). It isn't your Beach Boys. It isn't my Beach Boys. But it's the Beach Boys.

Huh...? Look it up in ANY reference book, quiz book, article on the band, etc. anywhere... The Beach Boys: Brian, Carl and Dennis Wilson, Mike Love, and Al Jardine. The Fab Five. It ain't an opinion at all, that's who the Beach Boys were. They had Dave Marks and Bruce Johnson and a few members of the Flame occasionally, but the Beach Boys were the 3 Wilsons, their cousin Mike and their friend Al. These arguments claiming otherwise are very strained... It's like saying the Beatles weren't the Beatles coz they didn't have Pete Best or Stu Sutcliffe in the lineup. The core Beatles lineup was, and always will have been, Paul, John, George and Ringo - in exactly the same way that the core Beach Boys lineup was, and always will have been, Brian, Dennis,Carl, Mike and Al. They were the Beach Boys. Urgo, Mike and a bunch of unknown musicians isn't the Beach Boys. It's an entertaining tribute act fronted by the original lead vocalist.

You're wrong.

And it's ergo, not urgo.

No i'm not.

And i'm typing in a hurry at work, don't have time to check spelling. Rather admitting defeat when one has to resort to pointing out spelling mistakes no?

No, that was an added bonus. And I won't admit defeat because I'm not wrong. There's no denying that the most popular way to talk about the Beach Boys is three Wilsons, cousin Mike and friend Al. But the most popular things tend to be fucking stupid, and this is the same. The Beach Boys have been many different groups, and one being more known or more popular doesn't make it exclusive truth. You're more than welcome to hold the belief that a certain group of people is required to be the "true" Beach Boys in your head/heart/ears. But it isn't factually true.

I'm a little lost here.  Are you saying that save for the legal permission to use the band name, you don't feel that Mike's group is the real deal?  If so, then everyone posting on this part of the thread is in agreement here.  So what exactly is your point?

Well if that's legally the Beach Boys all i can say is f*** the law!

And actually you're wrong - they ARE my Beach Boys. I got Bruce's freakin' head in my fridge.

I am debating thomasogg on whether "the Beach Boys" is three Wilsons, a Love and a Jardine. In doing so, I admitted that in my heart, the band I consider the Beach Boys is long gone, not the legal entity that is the Beach Boys. But regardless of my, or his, thoughts, if a band is legally the Beach Boys, well, that band is the Beach Boys. And so have many other bands been the Beach Boys along the way. I hope that's clearer to you now.

My point however was thus: you stop ANY Beach Boys fan (or knowledgable music fan) in the street and ask 'em to name the members of the group known as the Beach Boys, they are gonna tell you: Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine. Maybe they'd add Bruce. Then they'd probably tell you to go away and leave 'em alone. But anyway, the reason they'd name those people as the Beach Boys is because those people are the Beach Boys. Paul is a Beatle. Carl is a Beach Boy. Mike is a prick. It's like that - Uh! - and that's the way it is! You're not gonna get far in any pub quizzes realing off the names of the guys who play alongside Mike at present if the question-asker were to ask 'name the members of the Beach Boys'... 

Let me add one more thing:

The debate as what constitutes as what is the "real" Beach Boys is both an easy and difficult argument.  Difficult because the Beach Boys have had a revolving door of members since the very beginning.  Hell, they even had Glen Campbell in the group for awhile.  But on the other hand, the members who have been legally recognized as Beach Boys are the five original members: Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike and Al (I'm not quite sure how David Marks fits into this).  They are considered as authentic.  The bandmembers touring with Mike and Bruce these days are not actual members of the band; just members of the touring band. 

Although you could always argue with said question-asker, 'yeh well, that may be the case mate, however going by the law the current lineup of twenty five middle-aged blokes does actually consistute the official group members.....' And that's my point.

Glen Campbell was a stand-in, in much the same way that Eric Clapton played on 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' without actually being a Beatle.

 :grouphug For me the only members that matter are Mike, Bruce, Carl, Denny, Brian, and Al.  :bow Anyone else is just "filler". 
[/quote]

What about Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar?

Ricky said, when asked what it was like being a Beach Boy, 'That's ridiculous, i'm not a Beach Boy, you know'. He then subsequently argued how, as it was such a close-knit band, no one from outside could ever really penetrate it - which is probably why both he and Blondie both eventually ended up quitting, as did Bruce before them. Now if Ricky, who wrote, sang and played on two albums, isn't a Beach Boy, then these gurning blokes currently playing alongside Mike sure as hell aren't...!
One final point: If Mike were sick one night next week and couldn't play but the band went on without him anyway, would THAT still be the Beach Boys? If so, that's ridiculous! If not, end of argument.

Blondie and Ricky will always be in "my" Beach Boys, even if they don't consider themselves BBs.

What kills me in Thomasogg and many other people's arguments about who the REAL Beach Boys were is that they buy into the myth. Its like...well if Rolling Stone.com says its true and the average Beach Boy fan on the street then it must be. But that's overlooking the fact that Al wasn't even in the Beach Boys when they became a HIT ACT!! The Beach Boys that went from playing in front of 50 people to playing in front of 10,000, the Beach Boys who went from no record contract to having a solid string of hit LP's and singles, the Beach Boys that went from local to the biggest band in the U.S. was Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David Marks. Anyone who was actually engaged in this event in the context of the time and hasn't just bought into the pr spin that has subsequently been coughed out as fact knows I AM RIGHT. I bought the first 4 Lps as they came out, i heard the songs as they hit the radio...Al Jardine was not a part of any of that, except as an occasional behind the scenes fill-in for Brian and paid sideman. The Beach Boys who conquered America were Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David. The five equal share holders of the Beach Boys franchise as they became succesful and famous were Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David...this is the fact, this is the truth...and Thomasgogg you need to go and get an education, and then come back and tell us who's real and who isn't. The only way your argument holds water is if the Beach Boys didn't exist until they'd already had 4 hit LPs and a bunch of hit singles...if they didn't exist until 1964...but they did and they were already HUGE.

I'm gonna say it again just to make sure anyone with a below average BB's IQ goes out and learns the facts and gets real. 1962 and 1963 were THE crucial years...without them the rest does not happen.

What kills me in Thomasogg and many other people's arguments about who the REAL Beach Boys were is that they buy into the myth. Its like...well if Rolling Stone.com says its true and the average Beach Boy fan on the street then it must be. But that's overlooking the fact that Al wasn't even in the Beach Boys when they became a HIT ACT!! The Beach Boys that went from playing in front of 50 people to playing in front of 10,000, the Beach Boys who went from no record contract to having a solid string of hit LP's and singles, the Beach Boys that went from local to the biggest band in the U.S. was Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David Marks. Anyone who was actually engaged in this event in the context of the time and hasn't just bought into the pr spin that has subsequently been coughed out as fact knows I AM RIGHT. I bought the first 4 Lps as they came out, i heard the songs as they hit the radio...Al Jardine was not a part of any of that, except as an occasional behind the scenes fill-in for Brian and paid sideman. The Beach Boys who conquered America were Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David. The five equal share holders of the Beach Boys franchise as they became succesful and famous were Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike and David...this is the fact, this is the truth...and Thomasgogg you need to go and get an education, and then come back and tell us who's real and who isn't. The only way your argument holds water is if the Beach Boys didn't exist until they'd already had 4 hit LPs and a bunch of hit singles...if they didn't exist until 1964...but they did and they were already HUGE.

My girlfriend asked me the other day who was in the Beach Boys. Over the course of the next few hours, I told her everyone I could possibly remember being in the group that went out on stage every night, from Brian and Mike to David to Glen to Bruce to Ed Carter to Charles Lloyd to John Stamos to Adrian Baker to Christian Love.

If you stop the average "Beach Boys fan" on the street and ask them who the members are, they'll either say, "Uh, I don't know, some old guys... they still tour?" or "Brian Wilson."

If you stop a close-minded fool who happens to be familiar with the Beach Boys, you'll get the three Wilson brothers, Mike and Al.


If you stop a fanatic such as myself, you'll get the explanation in the first paragraph.

Interesting related article I just came across:

http://www.northcoastjournal.com/101807/hum1018.html

It asks the question, who is  a real Animal?

Anyone heard of Pete Best?

The horse you're beating is long-since dead. Your argument is simply wrong. It is factually incorrect. Every time you bring up a point, it is either personal preference, popularity, general public's perception or some kind of "most important" list. But none of those things change facts of who was or is a band member.

Pete Best was a Beatle, by the way.

How many hit records did Pete Best play on? NONE   David Marks played on a whole bunch of them, some of the biggest ones the Beach Boys ever had. You need to wise up ...first this guy tells us the NEWS that Dennis' "third" wife Shawn Love has passed away "recently"...yeah four years ago! Now he's gonna tell us who the real members of the BB's are. You are in the presence of some of THE most educated BB's fans on earth...you need to get humble...or you are surely going to look like a fool.

Believe it or not, i don't generally follow the lives of ex-wives of dead band members... What can i say, I'm SUCH a square! Yes, if only i'd not failed my 'Beach Boy-ology' A Levels...
(Actually Al only didn't play on the first THREE BB albums, not the first four. He wasn't on the album sleeve, but he did play on the album).
This is, incidentally, meant to be a DISCUSSION, not a slanging match, Mr Stebbins. I think if you're getting THIS worked up over a chat about who was or wasn't in the Beach Boys then you need to go lie down or have a wank or something..
Anyway, i'm off to curl into a small humbled ball and rock backwards and forwards crying at my Beach Boys ignorance. If only i knew more.. If only i knew more.. Either that, or i might just go listen to 'Surf's Up'. Anyone know the exact time at which Jack Rieley was born?

Per my handy AGD reference books, David Marks left the BBs August 1963.  Al played on the new songs that were on the fourth album, which was released October 2003.   Does that mean Al was part of the crucial year 1963?

Yes Charles, it does.

2003? Don't you mean 1963?

The "4th album" refers to Little Deuce Coupe, right?

Yes to both, and thanks for catching that.

Hey thicko, their fourth album 'Little Deuce Coupe' (yeh, I knew what it was called, me) was released 1963, not 2003. Duuuh!!!!

Don't worry, i'm just joking! Sorry, i just re-read Stebbins posts and got rather caught up in the mood...

David left the BB's in October 1963 after the LDC LP had been mastered. Al became an official Beach Boy again later that month. However as The Lost Beach Boy book points out David and Al both participated in the Beach Boys LP sessions for Surfer Girl (Al is only on a few tracks, David is on all of them) and LDC, with David being the official member and Al being the occasional helper. The first Beach Boys hit single to not feature David Marks is the 1964 release Fun Fun Fun.

Thanks for the clarification, Jon.

From AGD's "Guide" regarding Little Deuce Coupe, the fourth album: "Although David Marks obviously appears on the four previously released tracks, the new material marks the official return to the band of Alan Jardine."

For the record, I've not yet read your book yet.

Sounds like both David and Al played on Be True To Your School?  Would that be the last hit to feature David?

David apparently played on one of the versions of BTTYS, but which one I can't be certain. Both Al and David are on In My Room for sure.

I believe David & Al are both on the LP version of "Be True To Your School" (David: guitar, Al: bass).  The single version was recorded at Gold Star with the "Wrecking Crew" on the instruments (plus maybe Carl on the lead guitar, and that may be an overdub).  Al is probably singing on that, but David MAY still be on it as one of the hand-clappers. 

Jon, do you know if Dave plays on "Little Saint Nick"?  The instrumentation there sounds like the "Boys" rather than the "Crew".  I know Al is singing on "The Lord's Prayer".

David doesn't know for sure if he was on LSN but it sure sounds like him, you are right about that.  David does not remember ever being in a studio with a guitarist other than him and Carl so if the Crew was on the single BTTYS, then David wasn't on hand claps. 

There are 2 songs David hears himself on and FEELS like he played on, although the session logs and previous myth say otherwise.  But now that we know those logs are less than accurate, what does your ear tell you about him playing rhythm on Surf City and I Get Around?

HMMM...very intersting, Carrie.  From what I can tell listening to "I Get Around", the basic track is Carl on rhythm guitar, Al on bass, and someone else (probably Ray Pohlman) on Dano bass, then Carl overdubbed lead guitar.  But it warrants another listen.  "Surf City" could very well have Dave on it!
As far as the handclaps on the single of "Be True" go...someone (not a Beach Boy) was once quoted as saying they were added at the same time as the "cheerleaders" (The Honeys) and that was done at the Capitol tower...meaning they were overdubbed at a later date than the Gold Star instrumental track.  If you ask Dave, I'll bet he'll remember whether or not he was there when the girls did their cheerleader routine. 

But why should he have been there? It was a Jan Berry-session, not a Brian Wilson-one. Of course, maybe it was him. Do we know if any other Beach Boy played on that track?

But I am reminded about something: the Beach Boys played the instruments on J&D's "Surfin' safari" version. Was Dave still part of the band then? I don't remember when it was recorded right now.

Brian, Dennis, Carl, David and Jan are on J&D's version of Surfin' Safari and Surfin'.

Jan and Dean and The Beach Boys hung out together at the Rovell's every day and David didn't stop hanging with them until around 1965 even though he quit in late '63.  He can remember several occassions where Brian would be at the piano, he'd get an idea and then jump up and grab everyone and head off to the studio to record.  Nobody was paying attention to who quit or which guy was in which band...it was totally spontaneous. 

Thanks, Craig.  Carl would be the only one who would be able to authentically replicate David's stlye on rhythm so it would make sense that if its not David, it would be Carl.  David has no problems distinquishing between himself and the Crew but Carl playing rhythm like David might be harder to tell.

He does remember being in the studio several times with the Honeys but not specificallly which track they were on. David used the Honeys and his aunt Andrea (County Fair) on several Marksmen tracks and most likely he got that idea from BTTYS. 

Interesting that Dave was most likely on the LP version of BTTYS, considering that was the version on the Endless Summer LP. Also...By back dating Dave's BB's tenure to Aug. '63 Murry took a major chunk of BTTYS royalties out of Dave's pocket.

Carrie, when David played with Mike & Bruce the other night, who was on piano now that  John Cowsill is drumming?  Was it just Bruce, with Tim Bonhomme on organ/synth/clavient, or did they also have someone else on piano?

Thanks

Timmy was handling most of the keys.  And Bruce.  The only other change was that Scott played drums on Rhonda when John came down to sing.   

Whoa, Scott can play drums????  I had no idea.  I've talked with him many times, but I never knew that about him.  Cool.

Carrie wrote about David.

He can remember several occassions where Brian would be at the piano, he'd get an idea and then jump up and grab everyone and head off to the studio to record.  Nobody was paying attention to who quit or which guy was in which band...it was totally spontaneous.   


Some of the best times for the Beach Boys IMO. Nice story Carrie.

How about Surfin'? That was a national hit (a minor one, but still) before David even joined...

Did anyone go to the show in Oklahoma over the weekend?  I'm interested in how the band sounded in its new configuration...

I meant like a top 40 hit...Surfin' was like #75...even Ten Little Indians charted much higher than that. Surfin was really only a local hit.

David may not have been on the Candix recording of Surfin' but I still think its still worth noting that the song peaked on the charts about a month AFTER David was in the band and the time he spent touring and promoting Surfin' around LA helped contribute to the success the song did get.

OK, you've got a point there.