The Smiley Smile Message Board

I know it can be considered unfair due to some writing more than others, but nonetheless who is your favourite outside (meaning not in the band) collaborator? And sorry if Ive missed anyone, I tried to remember as many as I could. As far as I can gather I didn't include anybody who has one co-credit

I vote for Andy Paley. I think he and Brian did some great stuff together. Of course this is not to put any of the other collaborators down.

On the other hand, I'd add Jan Berry too....

Interesting choice, I was keeping it to Beach Boys only (though I spose I didnt make that clear :)), but I suppose Other can just refer to anyone Ive missed or Paley and Jan Berry or anyone else Brian (or another member) wrote with (including non-Beach Boys songs).

What about David Sandler? While with BW he never participated in the production of what most people might call landmark recordings, he seemed to be very supportive at a time when Brian really needed it, so their collabaritive efforts at least had some huge potential.

As for my favorite outside collaborator, I find it hard to chose between Tony Asher, VDP, and Jack Reiley.

Where's Mike on there? Or are you just counting collaborators from outside the group?
And Rick Henn would be a good addition; 'Soulful Old Man Sunshine' is AWESOME. But I guess you could vote for him under "other".

I voted for Tony Asher. I treasure the songs Brian wrote with him. One of 'em is my #1 favorite song in the universe. I wish they would write more together. 'Everything I Need' and 'This Isn't Love' were sooo good.

I voted VDP but my second choice would have been Gary Usher.

Ditto on the VDP vote, but love out to Rieley and Kalinich.

VDP for me...but also a big fan of Kalinich.

The results so far a pretty interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that VDP would be winning by this much. Dr. Love wouldn't be too happy :-D By the way, is Bob Norman the same person as Bob Norberg (I swear Ive read that somewhere - either that or Im going crazy)

Yeh as I stated before anybody who has only one co-credit (eg: Rick Henn) I didn't include, because otherwise I would have to include Steve Korthof, Joe Knott etc.. and I figured nobody would vote for someone who co-wrote just one song..

By the way what would that "#1 favorite song in the universe" happen to be?

I voted for Jack Rieley. I also like VDP and Kalinich alot. All three of these are very poetic and creative. Gary Usher was also very creative for the early 60s.  It's hard to say. Tony Asher's are good, but not all that creative IMO. But they work well for PS.

 

Well going off topic for a second, I would say Brian and Mike were the best true colaberators as their partnership was fairly consistent for 18 years. I like Van Dyke and Tony Asher's lyrics though I tend to think of then as not being actual partners with Brian but rather more project specific. Rieley was up and down, so I ended up going with Greg, while I truely like Kalinich's lyrics, some of his poems are not as accessable to me. .Jakobson  just did good solid work with Dennis that managed to bring out the best in him without being overwhelming with his own style.

I remember a quote from Daryl Dragon where he said he would write one word and Dennis would give him credit. I think (probably wrong though) he also stated that he did the same for Gregg... not entirely sure I believe that though to be honest. I've always believed that the Wilson Brothers were born to make music not to write lyrics. I mean really look at it, Brian is a pretty average lyricist generally and 99% of the time used other lyricists (of course some songs he wrote some of the lyrics - for example like All Summer Long I think it was Mike said Brian wrote 50% of the lyrics) but still Brian's gift is music, same as Carl who used Myrna Smith, Robert Johnson, Geoffrey Cushing-Murray etc.. and Dennis who used Gregg Jakobson, Daryl Dragon, Steve Kalinich, Karen Lamm etc.. But I agree about Gregg MBE, he was involved in the majority of Denny's best work in my opinion.

Is anyone gonna select Landy  ???

'Wouldn't It Be Nice'.  ;D

No other song means as much to me. That song, and the album it comes from, is what made me a Beach Boys fan.
Thanks Brian, Tony. (No, I ain't thanking Mike!)

Yeah that song makes me a bit suspicious about some of Mike's other co-credits. I mean according to Tony Asher (who I think seems a pretty decent fellow) Mike didn't write ANYTHING in that song in terms of actual lyrics or music. I agree with you though Wouldn't It Be Nice is amongst my favourite songs (as Im sure it is with many people around here). I just love everything about it. I think that along with God Only Knows is the most amazing backing track from the Pet Sounds Session Box. And I think WIBN is the most amazing vocally. Basically WIBN is up there with other perfect songs, a song where everything just fits together perfectly.

I decided not to include Landy because even though I still think he has his credits from The Beach Boys '85 and Still Cruisin etc.. (I think) I figured nobody would vote for Landy. Well I certainly never would because he is a loser in my books.

Well as far as Tony goes it was political. He was someone who didn't like Mike and I have read Marilyn quoted that he was one of the people she did not want around because of the drugs. His best friend was Loren afterall. Mike did not add a whole lot to WIBN but he did write the songs coda and some of the background parts. You could debate if that deserves a third of the song but the fact is Mike made the song a bit more commercial.  I say this fully knowing that Asher did do some amazing work with Brian. The politics have nothing to do with his talent or with Mike's. Frankly it was Brian who made both what they were .

Didn't Tony Asher (not saying he is telling 100% the truth) say that Mike didn't write any words in Wouldn't It be Nice... like he just came up with some oohs and aahs..  To be honest, its basically impossible to determine who wrote what unless all the songwriters come out and AGREE on who wrote what..

Tony says that Mike wasn't even in the country when he and Brian wrote Wouldn't It Be Nice.  I suppose Mike could have added it at the last minute during a vocal session.  But I really don't think he deserves a full third credit for 2 little lines.  Like you said, at this point it's almost impossible for Tony, Brian and Mike to reconcile their memories of it, seeing as how this all happened 40 years back.  I'm just a bit skeptical about Mike's claims.

While I don't debate some of Mike's credits (eg: California Girls has Mike written all over it - to me it seems anyway)... some of his songwriting credits are just crap.. I mean on All Summer Long he claims he wrote "remember when you spilt coke all over your blouse".. and he gets credit for that which I spose I can sort of understand but still its not like he wrote much then and especially on 409 is another one.. he wrote "giddy up giddy up 409" and some other similar line... big deal if you ask me.. I disagree with 409 and Wouldn't It Be Nice... Not sure about any other songs though

Tony Asher, but I like Gary Usher, Roger Christian too, so Myrna Smith and Randy Bachman who wrote some nice lyrics, I even like some of Melcher's stuff.

Oh boy, is this a hard question. I think that everyone has had his own input at one time. That is at the right time. They are all were important at one stage since the beginning. Even Mike Love (as I recall, the lovely Let The Wind Blow is mainly his idea).

I voted for Van Dyke Parks because I feel he did not only contribute to the lyrics, but is a musician himself as well. He still takes the best out of Brian.
I hesitated in voting Parks because I like what Brian did with Tony Asher. I still think his lyrical contributions are outstanding. Look at God Only Knows. Especially on Pet Sounds, but in other songs as well, Tony says a lot in few words. That’s an art form in itself. Brian flowers when he works with people who are a class in themselves. Like The Beatles had Paul and John who helped each other (they were each others soundboard) and were guided by George Martin, Brian never had that relationship within the group. I thinks it’s one of the reasons he’s quite creative nowadays. He works with musicians who understand him and contribute to his way of thinking musically and add extras.

I would definatly go with Van Dyke Parks I love his abstract style of writing in songs like Surfs Up and Cabinessense.  Also as far as outside collaboraters go I like Tony Asher's style a lot, his lyrics perfectly captured Brian's heart and soul and they effectivly communicated his feeling on Pet Sounds.