The Smiley Smile Message Board

For some reason I never really thought of this until a couple days ago. Did you realise that the only Beach Boys to write smash hit songs without Brian were Mike (Kokamo), Al (Lady Lynda) and Bruce (I Write the Songs)?! The more aristic minded ones never did unless you want to count Dennis as co-writer for 'You Are So Beautiful'.

I guess it goes to show that pop charts mean didly squat! Michael Jackson outsold the superior U2, NSync outsold the superior Radiohead, (I am pretty sure, I haven't researched).

But it still irritates me that Dennis and Carl never had smash hit success.

Bach had more to do with Lady Lynda than Al.  Where was that a hit?

It was a smash hit in a few countries including England I believe. It didn't fair so well in the US

http://www.mountvernonandfairway.de/charts.htm

Here are some charts. I guess it was only a hit on the British charts where it reached #6

I believe only the intro is from Bach's work, the rest of the song is original.

Indeed.  And I beleive the intro was shaved off for the single-edit. 

OK, the outro is also Bach's.  :)

Mike only wrote lyrics for "Kokomo," right?  Not the music...  It's officially credited to (in this order): John Phillips, Mike Love, Terry Melcher, and Scott McKenzie.

The vocal melody is based on the Bach melody. It just isn't a direct quote anymore. Write out the notes sometime from the Bach piece and the vocal and compare them.

Mike wrote the music (and words) for the Intro/chorus hook ("Aruba, Jamaica", etc.).  He also changed the tempo of the whole piece to make it upbeat.  Terry wrote the part of the chorus that Carl sings.  I don't know what McKenzie contributed, but reportedly he was John Phillip's cowriter  on the original version. 

It irritates me more that I never had a smash hit. ;)

I think Dennis has certainly received more critical acclaim than Mike, Al, or Bruce and deservedly so.   Carl's voice clearly made up for any lack of songwriting success.  To put it another way, I'd rather sing like Carl than write like Mike, Al, or Bruce any day of the week.

Frankly I find Lady Lynda a bit creepy...I like Santa Anna Winds better (why the narration at the begining?)

Because Al was (and is) the Master of Cheese.

Indeed, but I think that without the intro and outro we'd never have known that Al had based its chord progressions on the Bach piece. In fact, I think the direct Bach quote cheapens the track. The slight difference between a nice little song and a kitschfest.

I disagree: its more than the progression. The melody is more than a slight resemblance--it's like a skeleton of the Bach melody. We would know. But you are right that the more direct bits cheapen it even more. As I just said, Al is the Master of Cheese.

Luther, we agree on that (see, two times in one day  :) ). The notes Al sings ARE a variation of the Bach notes. My question is, would anyone link Lady Lynda with the Bach piece if the intro hadn't given it away?

Of course, it would have been mentioned by Al in a interview somewhere, or to a fan in a backstage chat, or to a book author, and we'd know it anyway.

I think without question, anyone familiar with the Bach piece (which is almost everyone) would catch it. And Beach Boys fans, hell, they find similarities in EVERYTHING. If they can make All Dressed Up For School into Marcella, they can find the Bach in Lady Lynda.

But really, what is up with people agreeing with me today? Maybe I'm not being my normal surly self!

Yeah, I've noticed a kinder, gentler Luther lately. Are you sick or something? :police:

Winds of Change is a great song until Al decided to over due the "Won't last forever..." round. One or two too many forevers in there.

Even if Mike wasn't the main creative force of Kokamo, and Al basically added words to a Bach piece, they still received credit on hit songs without Brian.

Maybe so - but he didn't write it.  8)

"Forever" was a hit for Jesse & the Rippers, wasn't it?  ;D

Maybe for girls age 8-12. And possibly their moms.

Oopsy

I don't know. Maybe somebody could check that for us. I know that somehow 'Forever' is a farely well know song, even to casual BB fans. Didn't Stamos play it on Full House?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hv1fRVEa6y0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gVleVKhvdR4&mode=related&search=

I didn't find this out until recently (and was surprised), but I think "Lady Lynda" did make the top 40 in America on the A/C chart, even though it didn't chart on the pop chart.

Al's songwriting has tended to be derivative, but you can make a good case for his commercial sense relative to the other guys in the band.  Besides "Lynda," he was responsible as producer and main driving force for two of the band's biggest post '60s hits:  "Cottonfields" in 1970 and "Come Go With Me" in 1981, and even "California Saga" made the singles charts briefly in '73.

:smash

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

Naah, shoot Mr. S. for ruining one of the most beautiful Dennis songs

John Stamos's character on the show was a musician and "Forever" was his big breakthrough hit, but that was of course all fictional.

I like the SIP version. Of course it's not nearly as good as the original, but for a cover song (which it is of course) I think it's very decent.

I have said many times and will again, I dont' hold any negative feelings toward Stamos. He was lucky enough to do what most of us wish we could--join (to some extent) the Beach Boys. And the cheese he (or someone) created with that version of "Forever" isn't worse than most of the other cheese they and others were doing in the same era. I would have done the exact same thing, given the chance.

Especially in terms of marrying Rebecca Romijn.

LOL These versions are full of more cheese then Al Jardine ever dreamed of having!

Shoot him? If you're a Dennis Wilson/Beach Boys fan you oughta be thanking him.

By John Stamos performing that song on national TV, he gave "Forever" and Dennis Wilson and Sunflower and The Beach Boys more exposure in one night than they could've gotten in ten years.

True, but at the time most people didn't realize that "Forever" was a Beach Boys song.  Sadly there are probably people out there who still don't.  And although I agree that any exposure is good to a point, that doesn't make his version suck any less.

"Forever" has now become like "Girl" (the song  Davy Jones sang on the Brady Bunch).

Dennis' Forever was always great. A crappy John Stamos cover doesn't make it any less so.

In John Stamos video, Carl Wilson is about the only Beach Boy who's visible in the final edit.

Now, what if it was Michael Edwards Love in his place, sharing a mike with Uncle Jesse? THE HORROR, THE HORROR...

The melody of the song is definitely a derivative of the Bach work though.

I certainly wasn't kncoking Forever, Stamos' version or its current pop culture status. Just making an observstion. I loved Davy's guest role on the Brady Bunch and Girl is one of my favorite performances of his.

It's Bach's melody retooled as a pop song.

Actually you see Carl, Bruce AND MIKE.  ;D 

I like the Stamos version, but just because Carl's voice is awesome there! Makes me almost cry. I wonder if the song could have been well as a single.

I dont see why we should be thanking him.. I mean now there is people out there who think that John Stamos wrote Forever, I mean that aint exactly a good thing.

Since it was released as a promo single, apparently not. Although one could bring the whole notion of what was really a single in the '90s into question...

I'm not sure how much this reflects on the popularity of Stamos' version or its influence, but my husband, who sometimes works deejay gigs, had a bride request "Forever" for the couple's first dance after hearing Stamos' version on the show. She knew I was a big BB fan, and asked me about the song. She was cool with my hubby playing the BB version for her dance, which he did.

Wasn't it released in Australia as a single? According to the Mt. Vernon website it was anyway and it charted at #100... If thats true Im ashamed :P