The Smiley Smile Message Board

The other day I was thinking about Brians divorce from Marilyn and I was wondering what (if any) impact this had on him personally and/or creatively, if anything. There doesn't seem to be much information about this (save for Brian ringing her and telling her he thought they should divorce), but as Marilyn was Brians muse for much of his writing it seems strange that not much has been reported about it.
Obviously the marriage was probably a bit stale by this time (due to the alleged affairs of both, and Brians mental state) so it's no real surprise.
I wouldn't usually stoop to sensationalism and gossipy type threads but as we are discussing the Beach Boys' drug problems and inter-band violence in other threads it doesn't seem inappropriate!

One gets the impression that it would have taken a first class saint (or masochist) to stay married to someone whose behavior and mental condition were like Brian Wilson's in the 1970s.

Which leads me to the question if they would have gotten together again after Brian became "healthy" and wouldn't have married Melinda ( i know that much of his healing process came after he married Melinda, but it's an interesting idea imo).

if Brian got back together with Marilyn, I wonder if she would encourage him to do smile. Wasn't it Melinda who wanted Brian to put the album together.

Maybe Marilyn just wanted something that resembled a normal life for herself and kids.

Run that idea by David Leaf and see what reaction you would get.  In some quarters, Marilyn was considered part of the problem.  She was guilty of not doing enough for him, and blaming too many of his problems on drugs alone, according to that view.   She probably had a lot of growing up to do as well as Brian, as well as needing to put her energies into raising her children, which was the wise thing to do (and she did a fantastic job under difficult circumstances).  I also don't think she was Brian's muse, except for a few songs.  In any case, if she was his muse, it didn't have a great effect on him in later years, in terms of quality and quantity.  They were probably both better off under the circumstances, and it's not fair to either of their present spouses to speculate otherwise.

You're right, Mike... Perhaps Marilyn was looking for something "normal".
Of course, Brian loved his daughters and cared for them, but in the end he was preoccupied with himself and his mental problems and didn't have the motivation to take an active part in this whole 'family thing'. And after realizing Brian would never be the same again, Marilyn also gave up on the marriage...

What impact it had on Brian? That's really difficult to answer... I mean, he lost his first true and serious love (we're not talking about Carol Mountain, the girl he had a crush on ... Oh Carol, I know...  :)) -- and Marilyn had always been the only person in his life he could completely trust.
But that's only my opinion...

This is all assumption without any basis in fact; we don't know who Brian trusted or who he loved or didn't love.  These issues are often complicated in the best of circumstances.  Add mental illness, illicit drug use, and who knows what pharmaceuticals...Marilyn seemed more Brian's mother than his wife.

What's interesting is the role she has continued to play in Brian's life. Not that Brian sees her every day (and probably not often, either), but she has done several Brian/BBs-related appearances and interviews over the years. She is inevitably asked to talk about what Brian was like, and she remains loyal to him, meaning that she has never sensationalized their life together or his behavior and has always spoken about him with love and respect. My impression was that the divorce was amicable and that she hoped for the best for him but wanted the best for her kids, and unfortunately, that meant not living with Brian. I'm sure their relationship had also changed, as Brian had changed over the years, but I don't sense that she holds any ill will toward him, or that he holds any toward her. And she doesn't seem to resent still being linked to him either-- in fact, she still seems proud of him and his talent and her association with him.

Wonder what Melinda thinks?

I hope Marilyn will write a book someday.

There was a small little thing on Brian's Larry King interview a couple years ago that was telling... Melinda (whom I give a lot of credit for helping Brian out) was telling Larry about Brian's past, and Brian was largely remaining silent and kind of doing his usual Brian thing, and Melinda basically said "I mean, UCLA is right down the street from where he's lived his whole life, I dont' know why they didn't get a decent Psychologist..." and Brian cut her off and said "She didn't know he was a nut!" or something like that, and kind of jumped to Marilyn's defense on national t.v.!  It was pretty interesting. 

I remember that interview...what was even more interesting about Brian jumping in right there was that it was about the only time all night where he spoke up without being asked a question.  While I certainly appreciate all the good things Melinda has done for Brian, I thought what she said was a pretty cheap shot, and I was happy that Brian came to Marilyn's defense like that.

I also remember reading an account of some BBs event that Marilyn attended a couple of years ago. Apparently she was asked about her contact with Brian now, and she said that she never calls him, but he sometimes calls her. I can't remember if she said anything else. Maybe someone else does.

Also, Brian chose to have his and Melinda's wedding on Marilyn's birthday.

Talk about passive-aggressive ... :-)

Maybe he forgot it was his exwife's birthday. He may have been one to never remember birthdays ( some poeple have to be reminded of a wife or husbands birthday)

It could have been melinda who decided on the day.

Nope, I read at the time that he picked it out. Probably People's article on the wedding -- Marilyn attended it too, I believe.

Ah the tangled web those Wilsons weave.

In Peter Carlin's new book, it says that Brian picked Marilyn's birthday so he would remember his anniversary date.  :lol

Marilyn told me she sold Brian and Melinda their house. I think she really loved Brian and that love eventually changed into a platonic love. By 1978 Brian wasn't even who he was in the sixties and even the early seventies when you can find a lot of pictures and home movies of Brian playing with his daughters. They had to break up and both knew it.  I think she was probably one of the best things that ever happened to him. They also worked well together creatively. Leaf and Melinda don't know what they are talking about when it comes to her at all.

Aren't most things in The Beach Boys story just assumptions... I mean how many people REALLY know what went on.. I would say not very many besides those who were there and even then their memories aren't always the best.

Well I can understand if Melinda isn't Marilyn's biggest fan, but I really get frustrated with Leaf sometimes. I obviously don't know him at all, but he can come across as "I know everything that went on and you guys (meaning the fans) know nothing"

Bingo but's not just his views on Beach Boys fans that's troubling, it's his moral judgments of people who lived through things that he only writes about.

What do Leaf and Melinda say about Marylin?

You'd have to read David's book.  It's not what he's written about her directly, but just what it implies about her bearing witness to Brian's problems and doing little or nothing about them.  Brian was a physical as well as mental wreck during the last years of their marriage.  After they separated, he got as bad or worse at points, which is why Landy was brought in a second time.  Marilyn found Landy in the first place, and that was both a bad and good thing, in some ways.  I think Melinda also has a problem with the way he deteriorated under Marilyn's "watch."  But the thing is, you can't control a person with mental illness and drug problems.  The law doesn't even allow it.  If you've ever known people with mentally ill or drug-abusing relatives, a person would have more sympathy for Brian and Marilyn's situation; maybe Melinda never has (I think David has it in his own original family).  It's not that easy for families.  Heck, David Leaf was around Brian after he divorced Marilyn, and even he, as a friend with concern for Brian, couldn't get him to help himself.

Melinda benefitted from Brian having changed and being willing and able to care for himself in a better fashion than he was when he was still married to Marilyn.  It was Brian that had to change and did; no one else could make him change.   Would Melinda have been attracted to him if she had met him at the point when he was over 300 pounds, unbathed, and suffering from more severe mental illness and drug abuse?  Probably not.  But hindsight is always 20/20, and she has brought up the fact that Brian lived several hundred yards from UCLA when he lived on Bellagio. 

Were Brian and Marilyn ever happily MARRIED?

The first couple of years seemed to be good for them. It has been said brian was very attractive to other girls and even had a girlfriend named debbie ( i think thats her name) she would be a part of brians life for years, marilyn even found her in their home. He even wanted to sleep with diane rovell, marilyn and diane stopped talking for awhile because of it. Remember this is just what some say, we really don't know for sure.

In Brian's "autobiography" he talks about being attracted to all three sisters initially, and continuing to be attracted to Diane for several years during his marriage to Marilyn.  And it is believed that Brian did have an affair with Diane at some point (hence "My Diane").  The fact that Marilyn stayed with Brian for as long as she did still amazes me...I think it speaks to how much she really did love him.  A lot of wives probably would have bailed much earlier.

They seperated in 1978. It seems that through the sixties and early seventies they were a good match, but when Brian began to seriously decline in 1973 I think is when his marriage really fell apart. I don't know if you would ever have called their marriage "normal" but it was pretty good by rock star or Brian Wison standards.

Just to turn the tables a bit, I think that just as Melinda has been critical of the way Marilyn "handled" Brian, Marilyn has been critical (perhaps less outwardly) of the way Melinda handles Brian. I think they have two different philosophies, which kind of reflect the contrasting philosophies the fans have... In the A&E bio,Marilyn basically said that Brian has worked hard enough (and this was in 1998 or 1999) and he should be allowed to relax and take it easy. Carnie has expressed similar views. And I wonder if, in the late 60s and the 70s, Marilyn had this same view or if she prodded him about working harder-- and how this may or may not have affected Brian's behavior.
Melinda, on the other hand,. feels that Brian should be encouraged to work, presumably because when it works (as with BWPS and TLOS), it's a huge confidence booster for Brian and it helps keep him out of an emotional rut.

So I think there's that conflict there between the two wives.

This 'we' does - back in the 80s I asked Diane if the tales about her and Brian's, um, 'involvement' were true, and she said they were. Marilyn, sitting by her side, nodded in agreement.  8)

Andrew, you've got cojones!   :lol

I read in one of the books that shortly after Brian and Marilyn were married, Brian experimented with LSD, and, I'm paraphrasing Marilyn, "Brian was never the same again." Didn't she also kick him out for awhile and he came back crying to her? That would've been 1965.

I know I read that Brian's posse and hanger-ons caused a lot of grief for Marilyn starting with Smile in 1966, with the drugs flying pretty heavily and Brian beginning his vampire-like hours.

1965-66 would've been the early years of the marriage. So, again, I wonder if they were  EVER happily married?

Regarding the Marilyn-Brian-Diane triangle...They must be bigger persons than me. If my husband slept with my sister, I don't know if I could stay married to him or stand on stage and sing "Shoot The Curl" with her...

We all know now for sure. Brian was a man whore.

Perhaps the years in which the babies were born were the happiest.

Always bear this in mind - when Marilyn married Brian she was two months shy of her 17th birthday.

That's actually not unique in rock history.  Robert Plant did the same thing, having an affair with his first wife's sister while still married to his first wife.  It even appalled his bandmates, and Led Zep was not exactly a conservative group. 

 I thought she was 15 when they married and 14 when they met.

He also moved in with the family when she was very young. Very broad-minded parents for the mid sixties. :o

I think the Marilyn/Brian marriage is well documented. Just listen to Brian's songs!
Marilyn left Brian after he tried to feed young Carnie with a drug. They decided to make this public - we can only speculate what else happened in the Wilson household around that time.
"My Diane" - since Dennis sang it, couldn't it be a song about Marilyn? B wrote a couple of songs about M around that time.

Sigh... Marilyn was born 2/8/48, the wedding was 12/7/64 - do the math. They met 10/62, in Pandora's Box. But then I've only asked her myself and done the research, so how much would I know ?

 I don't make this stuff up, you know, although sometime I think I might as well...

My question to Diane in 1983 was this - "Is "My Diane" really about the end of the relationship between you and Brian ?" She said "Yes". Marilyn nodded. Ginger smiled. The guy interviewing them with me nearly fell off his chair. Of course, they could have been misleading me, but i don't think so.

You do the math for me andrew, you know more about the wilson's than i do.

I never came across parents like that. My dad would have beat a older man for getting close to me.

Patently.

A+ :-D