The Smiley Smile Message Board

What Smile stuff is KNOWN to exist, but remains in the hands of private collectors or is uncirculated? 

This topic has come up before, but I'd love a recap given some of the recent wishful thinking on the board re: a box set.

There's Barnyard without the vocal "sound effects."

We know acetates of different versions of Heroes and Villains exist - what state they are in and exactly what's on them is unknown.

Rumor has it that there is a tape of Vegatables that has toothbrushing sound effects. I don't think it ever actually existed though, to be honest

Well actually I believe it's a tape of Mama Says/Do a Lot with scrubbing and toothbrush effects.  I believe it exists as the person who claims to have it also had a bunch of other tapes that did eventually see release on boot.  That one has yet to turn up though, I believe the owner was busted secondary to Beatles boot material, so we probably won't ever hear this one. 

Domenic has the complete, edited master of the whole album.

In the correct, undeniably godlike running order.  (And he should know, he sequenced it.)

 >:D

Bwahahahaahahahaha....

Bruce Johnston has said that he has some acetates.  I believe he mentioned one with Heroes and Villains.  Perhaps this is one of the early mixes with Great Shape, or the legendary 5 or 6 minute version from spring '67.  There's the infamous Durrie Parks acetates.  Who knows what she's got?  I would imagine that Al Jardine has some stuff, as well, considering he was the guy that said that the Do You Like Worms as featured on the box set wasn't Do You Like Worms at all.  I can only imagine what Brian might (or might not) have hidden away somewhere.  I am not really up on the various collectors, except I've heard the name 'Desmond Jones' mentioned a few times.  Is this the guy that has the instrumental Surf's Up (section 2), which has been rumored to exist?  I guess we can't really know what's out there without hearing what's out there.

That's kind of like the proverbial "Chicken or the Egg" question. No doubt all of those listed
might exist, but I'm always wondering about those empty boxes, and where the contents
are now. Capitol vaults ??? Carl's kids ??? Flea Market ??? Dumpster ??? We may never know.

Desmond Jones, I believe, is the supposed owner of the toothbrushing tapes who got busted.

I would think Durrie Parks has long since given to BRI whatever acetates she might have had. She was in the BD doc. so she's not out of "theloop."

really?  I would like to know more about this....

I've always loved DYLW?, but HATE the muddy version put out in various ways, shapes, and forms. I would love to here a CLEAN 1967 version of this song.

perhaps Frank Holmes? After all, he remembered unused original lyrics for "Cabin Essence" & "Do You Like Worms" in the 90's, most of them didn't make the cut on BWPS.

I'd think anyone who hung out with Brian in later 66 while the Boys were touring might have acetates... I'm thinking Danny Hutton,  Vosse,  Anderle... even Siegal ('scuse any spelling errors there please).   Brian was doing plenty of experimental sound stuff with them and who knows what they took home in their party bags. That said, most might have by now handed them over to BRI or BriMel or whatever. Well, it'd be nice to think so...

Desmond Jones, wasn't he that guy with barrow in the market place who was married to Molly, the singer in a band?

Very true.  So we can add to our list anyone who frequented Desmond's market stall (which I believe was in the Camden area) around 1967/68.

Thomas Pynchon, maybe.  Has anybody observed him lately?

The Shawn Love tapes :-X - Mike singing "You Are My Sunshine" over "H&V Barnyard" and all that stuff.

If Brian gave someone a tape or acetate back in the day, why on earth would they give it to BRI or BriMel?  They might provide a quality copy or maybe not.  I don't know the legal ramifications, but I really don't see any obligation to return it.  My guess is that at this point Brian is "done" with Smile and has no big reason to return to it for any little snippits.  The Beach Boys might experience some benefit if a box set is ever contemplated (which as time goes on I think has less and less commercial viability).  It's only the collector who really care at this point.

edit (I'm a collector nut too...)

I'd think that if  Lucky Old Sun & the live gigs later this year garner the rave reviews that Midnight's Another Day already seems to warrent, then the commercial viability of a SMiLE box set would soar on the back of that positive publicity.

Maybe Brian's people need to be preparing for that right now...   call in those acetates (or copies) folks!






(please, please, please!!!)

I don't know who did what, and when they did or didn't do it, so my opinion is open for criticism. But...

Brian Wilson is arguably one of the most important composers of the 20th Century, and SMiLE is arguably his greatest work, so, just for historical purposes, I'm surprised more hasn't been done to collect everything - EVERYTHING - that has to do with SMiLE, and archive it someplace, by someboby, comissioned or non-commissioned. I think it's that important.

Me too. Unfortunatley, about 7 decades from now somebody who feels the way we do might actually do something about it....but maybe by then it will be too late....

Really- is that not out there?  Is it not on the 3 disc vinyl set? 

I remember when that snippet was found (1990? '91?), and my memory- which may have been a misunderstanding or misinformation at the time- is that the clip, as it turned up, had no effects on it, but matched another snippet- the animal noises- in terms of length and tracks used- (e.g., one had music on tracks one and three, and the other had effects on two, something like that, same length, and they seemed to correspond).  When the two clips were combined, it resulted in the identification of it as "Barnyard", which was later dramatically confirmed by the demo.

That's my recollection of that; if anybody has better information, please correct me!

In the late 80's, early 90's (I can't remember) I was at the Belly Up Tavern in Solana Beach,CA  for a "Special Evening with Domenic Priore &  'Smile'.  It was billed as a sneak peak/look at the amazing lost album.  Priore played snipets of songs I have heard on numerous boots. Some were bad quality. Nothing new.  He played the Brian demo version of 'Surf's Up' for example.

 So I say Hogwash that he has the 'edited master of the whole album'.

Frankly, things like a 'Barnyard' backing track without the sound effects does not excited me. What would?  A Beach Boys version of 'Barnyard' with a completed lead vocal.  Does it exist?  I wonder.

I fear we have all already heard all there is to hear  except for session takes.  And hearing 9 takes for the backing track of 'Vegatables' doesn't excited me much either.

Hogwash?  Of course.  I was merely being sarcastic!

My feeling is that Domenic reached a point long ago where he felt overconfident in his assessment of what SMiLE was and wasn't, and berated any thoughts independent of that.

He's been proven wrong so many times on so many things, you'd think he'd be humbled again.  But 'parently not.

I miss the days of LLVS when he was just wide-eyed and happy about the music--and not a bitter old fanboy.

Domenic doesn't have the edited master, but I hear he does have an acetate of Heroes & Villains Parts 1&2.  ;)

On the 8 track comp tape of Smile material prepared by Desper and Carl there are two versions of Barnyard - one with animal sounds (which is booted usually from an acetate source, as on Sea of Tunes, although I believe Secret Smile has it from a tape source) and one without, which has never been booted, at least on commonly available boots - there may be internet file sharing comps that have it, but I've never run across it.  False Barnyard is available with vocals and without (OMP fade which became the Heroes cantina fade).

Other SMile era material that has not seen the light of day and is in the vaults:

In the Midnight Hour (on a Holdays tape)
Jazz (on the I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night tape)

Sorry Onkster,  didn't get the sarcasim first time around.  Do now. Funny! :lol

What's In The Midnight Hour - something to do with Holidays?

presumably midnight hour is a cover of the Wilson Pickett song - a precursor to Brian's turn to R & B with Wild Honey, perhaps?  It's on a Holidays session tape, so may have been recorded at the same date, Sept 8, 1966 at Western.  Interesting though is that it's on an 8 track tape labelled Holidays/In the Midnight Hour.  Western didn't have 8 track at that time, only Columbia did, so this is probably a  transfer to 8 track for vocal overdubbing at Columbia in 1966 OR could have been a tranfer by Stephen Desper and Carl in 1971 when they were cataloguing and preserving Smile tracks for a possible completion/release as a 2 fer with Holland.  If the latter, In the Midnight Hour may have originally been a separate tape from a different date which Stephen combined onto one.  Haven't heard from any tape vault rats as to whether this is still in the tape archive (it was in the early 90's when Brad Elliott reported this information) or what In the Midnight Hour actually is - instrumental or vocal.

Well, the comp reel with the 2 versions of Baryard will be a big sonic upgrade over what is in circulation. All we have is a crappy sounding acetate so I'd love to hear Barnyard is ace quality. I would think that some collectors have acetates of Old Master Painte, Fire (BW's mix with fx), and CITFOTM that will sound much better than what circulates. That's why I'm so keen on an official box. Even if there is little unheard stuff there will be lots of sonic upgrades.

Frankly I'd be more than happy if  a box set appreared that simply collated what we've already got officially into one collection in one place, with some decent liner notes.

Obviously the more unreleased stuff, the more sonic upgrades, the more video and session material the better, but I'd settle for less, for now!

Why? We know more about Smile than any liner notes would tell us, and alot of us have all the tracks. Why would you hope for that? I'd rather have a boxset of Celebration outtakes than an officially released version of songs I already have.

No we don't.



Again, no we don't.

Behold! Behold! The dream liveth!

Andrew, if I may quote and bold what I was replying to:


Wouldn't you say that we already have all the songs "we've already got"?

Not together in one collection, with photos/graphics/liner notes.  If you have such a thing, please share!

The sad reality is that even if a SMile box set is released, it is likely (dare I say a certainty) that it won't collect even half of everything that's currently "out there."  Not that I wouldn't want it for sonic upgrades and new discoveries.

No, not together in one collection. But what does that matter? Yeah, sonic upgrades would be great, and that's why I'd want some sort of official release, but if it's just going to be the same old tracks with the same terrible quality, what's the point?

I would only buy a SMiLE box set if it were remastered away from that awful sound alot of it has. Some of it sounds like it was recorded with a ghetto blaster.

Thanks for the info.

I'd really love to hear versions of CIFOTM and Barnyard that sounded good. Holidays also. There seems to be a great sounding version of OMP without vocals but the version with Dennis' lead sounds terrible. Anyone know if there's a clear sounding version of OMP + vocals in circulation?

I must admit, if a Smile box was released with major ommissions such as Child or Look I think I'd go insane. You'd have to at least get all the tracks featured on BWPS on there. Why would compilers leave Smile tracks out? Audio quality? I could live without He Gives Speeches and George Fell into his French Horn I think.

I often wonder how a boxset would handle the Heroes odds and sods such as Gee and Western Theme? I think post BWPS you couldn't get away with an edited together track such as Heroes Sections. Mark Linett did a great job on that but I don't think I'd be happy with such a frankenstein track on a Smile box as it would be misleading. I guess you'd just have to include the session tracks for those bits. It makes you realise how complicated compiling a Smile boxset would be.

I'm really frustrated by the record companies dragging their heels on digital distribution of unreleased material.  When are they gonna wake up and realize that there's this Interweb thing out there that would allow them to exploit their artists' unreleased archives without any manufacturing and distribution costs?  I'd pay a buck a song to download unreleased Beatles, Beach Boys, Dylan, Stones, etc. but I won't pay that for the new White Stripes (tho' I like the White Stripes).

I'm guessing that the artist has final call in most cases but c'mon, where there's a will (and $ to be made) there's a way.

The version in of OMP with vox in circulation sounds like it's from a crappy tape dub of an acetate. My guess is that the actual acetate sounds much better than that..

I don't see a point in a SMiLE boxset. A PET SOUNDS box made sense, because it's a 'making of' of a finished album. Regarding SMiLE, a release with SMiLE in the titel should include all the stuff that exists in the vaults: all the pieces, all the takes, all the mixes, all the acetates to give the listener an accurate impression of what this album could have been and most important: To work with it. And, no orientation on BWPS, not because I don't like it, but these two projects are 2 separate pairs of shoes to me. BB SMiLE didn't lose any of it's fascination over the years. The genius of it is that it's interactive and changes all the time. There must be thousands of finished SMiLE's out there. A boxset would be an attempt to imprison the thoughts of the creators. Keep the myth alive and SMiLE a underground project that IMO makes the BB interesting, fascinates people and is also good promotion in many ways.

I couldn’t agree more Jasper. If you listen to the SOT series on Smile you’ll notice a couple of times that there’s an insert intended in some songs for no reason at all or destroying a decent song. I think that Brian recorded a whole lot of those inserts and at some moment he thought he had to use all the recorded stuff. And thus lost his way in the pile of tapes, not knowing where to use what and where and maybe why. Add the pressure of The Beach Boys and record company problems etc.  All what’s of interest from that period is available among collectors.

How does it imprison the thoughts of the creators if the boxed set were to consist entirely of sessions and not condense them into a particular order? Which is what a sessions box would be, wouldn't it?

I can't agree with that at all. A Smile box doesn't have to present the material as an album. All it needs to do is feature the most complete/most interesting material recorded between August '66 to May '67 in the best possible quality. The "point" of a Smile box is to get the material "out there" from the tapes so we don't have to listen to CITFOTM et al. in sh*t quality anymore..