The Smiley Smile Message Board

What the heck happened?? A big message on the Blueboard saying Al will not be joining Brian for his European tour because of his grueling recording sessions?? The damn album has been put off for 6 years, 1 month wouldn't kill it?? Brian wishes him well and will possibly work with him in the future??Something must have happened cause it does not sound good for them at all! Wonder if it has to do with Brian's accident??

Brian had an accident??

"Al played and sang for the whole show....(maybe not the first song...can't remember). Brian scared us last night....during Sloop John B (50 minutes into the show), he got off his stool and laid down behind Al (to his right). Al says "Brian, what're you doing?"....Brian says, "I'm sorry ladies and gentlemen, I almost fainted, thought I was going to have a fainting spell.". So they take a 15-20 min intermission here (instead of later). They come back and BW's seems a little out of sorts. But by the 5th song, Heroes and Villains....he's singing STRONG! One of his best vocals of the evening. I was pretty spooked there for a while. Moved up front for Love and Mercy at the end (otherwise I was in Row Q). Not sold out although it holds about 1500? I thought that was sad....the man IS a musical genius."

http://www.smileysmile.net/index.php/brian_wilson_scare_at_mountain_winery

I think the announcement on the blueboard sounds almost as if Brian and Al won't work/tour together anymore in the near future... I hope I am wrong because with Al, Brian's shows got even better, and that was hard to top.

The drama starts up again.

Brian lays down onstage, says he has a fainting spell.

Show stopped briefly.

The next day, Al is out.

Hmm.

Anyone taking bets on whether we'll see the European tour even happen?

I see Al is down to play Pasadena tonight. We will see.
My thinking is he and Brain are ok but I don't think the ticket sales for Europe are what was hoped for by adding Al . I would suspect Al's fee would be better than the others onstage so they are cost-cutting. The setlist this week is just a greatest hits show and I would not be bothered.
This and the fact that Brian had a health concern last night point to Brians Europe and this small US tour will be his last. A poor response to the work in September will confirm it for me.

Al is playing Pasadena now tonight?? He wasn't supposed to originally I thought. This whole thing has me confused entirely.  I thought maybe Al was concerned about Brian's health after last night.

I was at the Saratoga show last night, and I'm glad most reports have correctly pointed out that Brian didn't faint on stage. He sat down behind Al, presumably to avoid fainting. That doesn't mean it wasn't a potentially serious situation. But I've already read a few reports elsewhere saying Brian fainted or collapsed on stage, reports not helped by Brian himself saying "I just had a fainting spell". But I don't think he actually fainted. He just sort of got up and then sat down on the stage behind Al. That's why after Brian did it, nobody immediately seemed too concerned. It's not as if he just fell over as you would envison somebody all of a sudden fainting.

Strangely, Brian seemed to look and sound fine both before and after the incident. He seemed to have a little less energy than average in the first half of the show (although he finished the show more energetically than I usually see him), but I've seen him look and sound worse at other shows from time to time than he looked or sounded at any time during last night's show.

They quickly took Brian away after the show, and his van passed right by me as I left and he had the winow rolled down and was, without prompting, thanking the fans for coming to the show. He looked fine. This is all relative of course. But given what he has looked and sounded like at shows since I saw him in 1999, he didn't seem any worse off other than the near-fainting incident.

I don't know how this incident may impact future shows, nor do I know if it has anything to do with the reports of Al not being on the European tour. I don't see how this incident would impact Al's participation in Europe. Al wasn't even supposed to be at the Saratoga show, it was a semi-surprise to begin with. We could all come up with a million hypothetical reasons why Al isn't on the European tour, but we don't know anything beyon the admittedly curious explanation that Al is too busy in the studio. I suppose that Al could have decided that since he really isn't getting to contribute a lot to the shows (he gets 2-3 lead vocals), perhaps he felt his time would be better spent finishing his album. If he really does finally finish the album, that *would* be great. But I can understand the disappointment of European fans.

I would tend to doubt that this indicates any sort of falling out between Al and Brian, and I can't see how Brian's condition during last night's show would cause any falling out. If anything, Al seemed to express more concern for Brian out of all of the band members. It was actually quite heartening to see Al show so much concern for Brian. Not that anybody and everybody didn't or wouldn't be concerned for Brian. But, knowing now that Brian appears to be okay, it was nice to see Al show some very personal concern for Brian.

I suppose a larger question, even if this particular incident isn't nearly as dramatic as it might sound, is whether Brian should continue touring so much, or at all. I have to admit that after the show, I was conflicted. I'm not sure whether I feel that they should just finally let Brian relax and retire from touring, or that I feel that Brian should be commended for bouncing back and putting on a good show.

I would still be surprised if the European tour is cancelled. However, I won't be surprised if we see very little Brian touring in the future apart from perhaps this European tour and the "Lucky Old Sun" shows in September. But we've already seen his touring tapering off anyway.

Re Al at Pasadena. I stand corrected. Will see if he does appear now Europe is off. HJ makes a point that maybe Al thinks that with only 2-3 leads, his time would be better spent on his own album. He only did about that number with the Beach Boys so I do think its something else. Maybe after last night he does not feel Brian should still be touring and its a protest to his handlers. He has seen behind the scenes and perhaps he doesn't like it. Who knows.


edit...It's catching!

Beach Boys show in Dewey canceled
By RYAN CORMIER, The News Journal
 
Posted Tuesday, June 12, 2007 at 3:59 pm
 
Beach Boys
 

 The Beach Boys aren’t coming to Dewey Beach after all.

The band’s July 1 show at the Baycenter has been cancelled due to “soft sales” of the $70 tickets, says Vikki Walls, booking agent for the show.

Fans who bought tickets through the venue’s tele-charge system have already been notified of the cancellation. They had not been charged for the tickets.

Tickets purchased through Ticketmaster will be automatically refunded, Walls says.
If you just have to get your fill of the Beach Boys this summer, don’t worry baby. The band plays the Borgata in Atlantic City, N.J., on June 30 and tickets ($55-$49.50) are still available.

Well, this point is something that definitely crossed my mind among the many possible explanations. As I mentioned, Al seemed to be a bit more deeply concerned right after Brian's incident than most of the rest of the band (I don't mean to say the rest of the band wasn't showing concern, I just think it's something they might be more used to, or perhaps since Al was closest to Brian when he had his episode, perhaps Al was able to see what happened more than some of the other band members.) If Al shows up at the Pasadena show, it would make it rather unlikely that he was protesting or anything of that sort.

I have to say, when Brian got up and told the audience that he had had a "fainting spell" and that he didn't know if he could continue the show, I actually felt really bad for Brian. This is just my take, but the look on his face and his demeanor as he said he didn't know if he could continue the show seemed to me to seem more like Brian was worried that he would be in trouble or would be disappointing the fans if he didn't finish the show, as opposed to being concerned about himself. As I said, this is just my take/guess. This more than anything is what made me strongly consider whether I should feel that perhaps they need to let Brian retire from touring (perhaps do the odd one-off show from time to time). First coming out in 1999 was an event in and of itself. Doing his first UK and European dates was an event. Doing "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" were events worthy of mounting full-blown tours. But now they are simply doing a greatest hits show, albeit with a slant towards a Brian-style setlist that, even as a "greatest hits" show, has a much more intersting setlist than the average Beach Boys show. Al and Brian together make a great show. I can even understand retreading "Pet Sounds" for a handfull of a shows for its 40th anniversary. I got to see the Oakland show on that tour, and that was great. But so far, the 2007 shows have basically been the 2004-2007 setlist, with "Smile" or "Pet Sounds" deleted and a few others thrown in. For Brian's sake, I don't know if anybody needs him to run himself ragged singing "Catch a Wave."

It's easier for me to contemplate the possibility of Brian retiring from touring after having seen him seven times since 1999, having seen both "Pet Sounds" and "Smile" twice, having seen Brian and Al on stage together twice (once singing "Pet Sounds" together).

I certainly hope that Brian and those around him do what's best for Brian, whether that means retiring or continuing touring.

I am a little disgusted myself tonight. Not sure what to think, I was so pleased as a fan to see Brian and Al appear to be doing so well and now this.  I feel like somethings not making sense here. Thats fine if Al didn't wanna go, but Brian wishes Al luck and maybe they will work together again. That doesn't sound too promising, but then you read Brian helped Al on the album. It just seems contradictory to me all over the place and very frustrating as a fan.

From the Blueboard


UPDATE FROM AL ON EUROPEAN TOUR

(posted by trisha on June 12, 2007 at 7:50 pm)

Message:

Hello everyone. We wanted everyone to know what is happening regarding Al not finishing off the last leg of his touring with Brian.


UPDATE FROM AL ON EUROPEAN TOUR
After a very successful and enjoyable show in Monterey and Brian’s visit to my recording studio (on which he recorded vocals for four songs) we spoke about our upcoming European shows. After a lot of discussion Brian and I both felt that it was best for him to do those dates without my accompaniment. It wasn’t an easy decision for me to make. Brian is my dear friend and I truly regret that I can’t join him.

As a token of my appreciation to all of my fans I want to extend an exclusive offer to anyone who has purchased their tickets for the shows I was to attend. When my new CD, “Postcards From California” is released, you can send in your ticket stub to jardinetours@mac.om and I will be happy to send you a copy of my album at no charge.

Warmly,
Al Jardine
Big Sur, CA

Wow, thats pretty awesome of him to offer his cd. :)

Considering Al was the one sitting next to Brian when he had his plane breakdown in 1964, it makes sense if he does have some concern.  He's seen Brian at his worst, and maybe he doesn't ever want to see a hint of that again.  Brian is going to be 65 years old shortly, and it's not convincing anymore to say he needs to work to not be depressed or bored.  He's just getting too old with his history of mental and physical health problems to keep up any kind of travel and tour schedule.  Except for the one-off gig here and there, he really should relax.  Most of his fans have seen him more than once.

While there were probably several reasons why Al joined Brian on tour, I always thought one major one was to SUPPORT Brian - on stage and maybe off.

I suppose it's none of our business, but when Al states, "Brian and I both felt that it was best for him to do those dates without my accompaniment", I wish he would've EXPLAINED WHY.

A sentence later, Al states, "It wasn't an easy decision for me to make." For ME to make? First, it was Brian and Al's decision, then, a sentence later, it becomes only Al's decision?

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

I think it's reasonable to believe that Al is hinting something a little odd is going on.  Al has always been very honest with his opinions about Brian and the other Beach Boys.  He just can't come out and say what's up with this, but he's not going to make people thinks it's normal.  The main problem is the lame explanation from Brian's management, that the only reason this happened is because Al is working on his album.

I think Al is, to a degree, unfamiliar with the latter day Brian. He hasn't experienced much of the scene around BW for the last decade or so. And if you've seen or read anything about latter day Brian, it's that he does precious little on his own. He needs a push. Most of Brian's present band is comfortable with the "pushing." I think Al is probably less so.

For me, regardless of Al, I am most concerned about Brian in all of this. I really hope the fainting spell wasn't him protesting his lot. Because if it is -- well, I have a lot less sympathy for those around him.

I think you're on to something. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark..

Nope! :/

I haven't either. My wife was going to go with me a 3 years ago, but miscarried earlier in the week.

Hmm...I wonder if Al leaving, Brian's episode, and the selling of all his homes are connected some how...

One thing we can all agree on - Brian's people are maintaining their impeccable standards as regards management, timing and keeping the fans accurately informed.

Can you believe that there hasn't been one single mention of Brian's 'almost fainting' on his own message board from his own people ? Yet there's news of Alan's not touring Europe with him, which gives the distinct impression that his health is considered secondary to the business of touring.

I have a simple question - what the f*** is going on with Brian's "people" ?

Ok I am going to come right out and say that I think the wife and biographer have turned into the people they once said were "abusing" Brian. Damn at least Murry, Mike, Carl , and the others cared about him before there was any money to be made. Landy was worse, and Brian does have great musicians with him, but even they seem to be "on leave" more and more often. I am tired of people not stating what is obvious. Does Brian have to die before certain people stop buying the party line? There are Beach Boys mags and message boards (not this one) that would have you believe Brian is cured, Melinda is wonderful, Leaf is a godsend. ENOUGH!!!! Brian is a unique and kind individual but as he has perminant damage on certain levels that allow others to take over his life. Perhaps he enjoys that in a perverse way but I feel strongly that he is not loved in the unconditional manner we all need. What he does in professinal life should be his call and if it's nothing then god bless him for 46 damn years of gracing all our lives with his wonderful music.

I for one have never bought the current 'party line', ever since it was first spun in the mid-90s. It'll be interesting to see how this latest fumble unravels.

AGD, I don't disagree with you at all. I would like to make one point, having witnessed the "incident": While the more broad question of whether Brian needs to or should continue touring is valid, I don't think the incident in Saratoga was in and of itself as dire of a situation as many may feel. Brian on stage is usually very forward and literal, his stage presence is such that he doesn't do much in terms of PR or things for show. In other words, most artists in his situation who may have felt faint or near fainting, probably wouldn't have blurted out "I don't know if I can finish the show" and just sat there staring forward and not knowing what to do. They probably would have kept it together enough to simply say they were going to take an intermission, or would have just stayed in their seat and called a band member over and whispered to them, etc. (99% of the audience wouldn't have known that an intermission wasn't planned if they hadn't been told so). I'm not trying to downplay what happened, and even if it was the most innocent of problems, if maybe Brian really just ate "a bad burrito"  like Foskett said, Brian's people should be making some sort of statement about it to the fans so fans understand that he is okay, if he is okay. While Brian's aging over the last 8 years or so may be a major factor, I think the fans collectively should be honest with themselves and say that the concerns that we all presently have about whether Brian should be touring are the same concerns that were valid in 1999, and even before then. I don't know if I'm prepared or in a knoweldgeable enough position to say whether Brian now should continue touring or not, but if we are to be honest, this same issue was and should have been thought about back in 1999 and earlier. In other words, if someone were to say defintively that Brian presently should no longer tour, I'd have a tough time buying an argument that he was in any significantly better shape to be touring in 1999, etc. 

One other comment to AGD: I noticed on the BB Britain board that you were referencing what I believe is this Saratoga show as not being able to sell out with only 1500 seats. Just a slightly correction or at least my take on it: I think it seats a bit more than 1500 (closer to 1800 perhaps), and as someone who was there, my totally on-site guesstimate as to the attendance would be that it was at least 90% full, perhaps a bit more. Only a small rear general admission bleacher section was noticeably missing ticket buyers as I could see it. It seemed pretty full considering Brian had just played the Bay Area on January 28th (at a show in Oakland that was seemingly near if not a full sellout), and this Saratoga show didn't get a lot of publicity since this was just a small four-show west coast mini-tour. The tickets for Saratoga went on sale maybe 10 weeks or so after he played Oakland, so I'm surprised tickets sold as well as they did.

But I agree with the main point you were making in your comment on the BB Britain board, which is that the novelty of Brian touring is wearing off and he is perhaps oversaturating certain markets. I would reiterate what I said earlier: Brian doesn't need to burn himself out singing "Catch a Wave."

This sort of thing, should the worst be true, is going to add an ugly patina to what was before largely a triumph in Smile 2004 -- because if he is being "handled" now, he probably was then too, and those of us with quiet optimism will be proven wrong.

Very strange, this.  I was so excited when I read the newspaper story about a possible Wilson/Parks collaboration with That Lucky Old Sun.  The text made it sound as if Brian was genuinely excited about the new work.  Then someone on another board said that Van Dyke was not involved in that project.  I also wondered if Al was going to be involved in some fashion, either in the recording of vocals, or the performance on stage (or both).  And I guess he still could be, but it doesn't seem likely. 

As Andrew said, this is going to be interesting.  Will Billy Hinsche be making the European dates now?  Someone also mentioned that Lizik, Bennett, and Sahanaja were absent from the Mountain Winery show.  I know Darian has got his Disney gig, but is the Brian Wilson Band splintering?  If so, why?  Is Van Dyke involved in the new project, or is he not?  C'mon Leaf...tell us what's going on. 

edit...I just read on the blue that Lizik was indeed at the Mountain Winery show, and that Darian and Scott Bennett joined Billy Hinsche and Gary Griffin on stage at the Pasadena show last night.  Hmm.  I just don't know.  I hope Brian finishes That Lucky Old Sun, gets it recorded and released, performs it for London, and all...but maybe after that just throw a couple of steaks on the grill and chill.   

Someone posted this on the blueboard:



So, what's up ?

Even through the SMILE '04 media coverage when asked directly, Brian several times acknowledged that the decision came from his wife/management.  I would think - despite "party line" pronouncements - fans have always questioned how much freedom Brian could possibly have, given his afflictions.  The question of whether how he is handled now is in his best interests (maybe an easy comparison would be to the Landy years), may be a tough nut to crack.  We've often seen the argument that "pushing" Brian into working/performing is beneficial for him, and with all of the conflict that Brian must go through in accepting these decisions (fear of failure, disappointing his wife, stagefright, etc.), he must come away from time to time feeling the effort is validated (critical acclaim, chart success, vindication and a Grammy from Smile '04 must've pumped him up).  I would think for anyone heading into "advanced" years, staying active on some level is very important.  But I'm sure these tours, even mini-tours, are far more taxing than I'll ever comprehend, especially when they cross continents.  And the idea that just about every touring dollar possible has been squeezed out of Brian in the last 10 years is hard to avoid, also. 

I'm reminded of that moment when Brian and his wife (was that on Larry King? or the Smile doc...) were discussing Brian's hospital stay during the Smile '04 rehearsals.  And Melinda, trying to figure out what to do with Brian, suddenly said to herself "This is merda do touro;" and asked Brian if he wanted to go out to dinner, and Brian suddenly lit up and accepted.  In that moment, despite our limited knowledge of the day-to-day realities of Brian's life, you can find yourself very conflicted over the subject of best interests/intentions. 


Hmm.... I edited that swear myself!  The program edited my edit! 

OK, so maybe Brian had an "episode" and admitted to Al that he didn't really want to go? That he was being forced to go? Maybe this happened while at Al's ranche during recording, and then Al witnesses the incident on stage, etc.  Who knows, but if any of this is true, then good for Al for doinfg what is right by Brian and also keeping confidences at the same time.  Truth be told, Al does not owe us the secrets told to him by Brian...

When I spoke of Brian's fans seeing him more than once, I was thinking of those of us who live in the markets he's played repeatedly.  In my market alone, he played Oakland in January, after having played Berkeley in the summer of '06.  And San Francisco in November of '05.  Of course, he mostly recently played Saratoga this Monday, which is certainly still in the Bay Area.  I don't get the reason he played this market so many times in such a relatively short period of time, and as huge a Brian and band fan as I am, I didn't go to all of those shows.  Granted, "Smile" was special, but the rest of those shows were oldies.  The ticket prices were fairly high, too.  Although a week before the Saratoga show, I was sent an promotional e-mail offering a deal to get two Brian tickets (minimum price of $50 each) plus two free Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk ride passes (worth almost $30 each) for a total of $99.  That would seem to indicate they were worried about ticket sales.  I don't think Brian likes worrying about his ticket sales, either, and I'm sure it hurts his feelings when he sees any empty seats. 

This "fainting" episode is being blown all out of proportion - it could have been something as simple as orthostatic hypotension (low BP when you stand up, due to pooling of blood in the legs or perhaps as a side effect of medication, and we know Brian is on several medications).  It hardly indicates tour exhaustion or an unwillingness on Brian's part to tour.

As for what's up with Al - could it be that Brian's management didn't want to foot the bill for Al to go to Europe - airfare, hotel, living expenses (food), as well as whatever fee he's been getting for doing these shows?  Maybe they wanted him to forego or cut his fee, which he refused to do?  It may be a business reason, in other words, and not a conspiracy theory reason.

Then I'm going to say something that I've held back on saying for a while. I think Brian's marriage is the biggest sham of all. I think at one point he & Melinda did love each other, but at this point...I think it's nothing more than a business arrangement. A bad one at that, too.
Yep. Notice how he's been basically doing the same setlist now for quite a while? Compare that to the first few years of touring.

Also..notice how much more outgoing Brian in 1995-1996. Compare that to now. Yeah, some of it is due to age, but...

Now THAT is a bit strong -- do you know them as people in the real world well enough to determine whether they love each other or not? 

This thread is rapidly spinning into gossip and speculation, with precious few facts.  History teaches us this -- make no early judgments with BB issues and the real story will eventually come out.  And it won't match much of the innuendo.

I bet Steve Gaines would be able to get to the bottom of this....!

Or Oliver Stone.

 :lol :lol :lol         "back, and to the left;..... back, and to the left"            :lol :lol :lol

Brian does seem to have a history of "passive-aggressive" rebellion against stuff he doesn't want to do.

Another thought: Could it be that Brian just (almost) collapsed because he has too much work to do? Maybe "That lucky old sun" isn't finished yet and it's too much pressure for him to tour and try to finish it at the same time...(1964 anyone?) Maybe they got Van Dyke just to help Brian complete that stuff



EDIT: Here's Melinda Wilson:

Brian's Health

(posted by Melinda Wilson on June 13, 2007 at 10:02 am)

Message:

I can see that there is much speculation about Brian's health and I appreciate the concern as does Brian. Brian had a slight dizzy spell at the show in Saratoga. He sat down on stage until it passed, he then got up told the audience what happened and then was taken back stage and check out by the medical staff at the venue. His vital signs were fine and Brian wanted to continue the show, because he felt fine after having some water and sitting for about twenty minutes. When we got home yesterday, Brian went to his doctor who checked him out and said he may have been a little bit dehydrated which he beleaved caused the dizzy spell. His doctor who had just recently done a complete physical on Brian said there was no reason for him not to continue his tour based on his finding and how well Brian is feeling. Hope this is helpful to all who are wondering. Melinda Wilson






One more issue

(posted by Melinda Wilson on June 13, 2007 at 10:08 am)

Message:

Anyone who is unhappy and feels they don't want to see Brian if Al is not appearing, please send in your ticket and Brian will refund your money. You can send it to Provident Financial 2850 Ocean Park Blvd. #300, Santa Monica California 90405





Danny

(posted by Melinda Wilson on June 13, 2007 at 10:32 am)

Message:

What happened is exactly what Michael De Martin posted yesterday. It certainly is your business if you only bought a ticket to see Al. If that's the case Brian has done all he can do by agreeing to give you your money back. Not seeing the overseas publicity, I have no idea how it read, but it really doesn't matter. We thought he would be joining Brian on the tour and he is not. Thanks Danny.

I've heard people say this about Brian, even about how he is today. I have no idea how true it is. But when this "incident" happened in Saratoga, I was reminded of this alleged tendency of Brian. It was hard to tell whether Brian was just really a bit "dizzy" (as they are saying on the bw.com board now; apparently dehydration and dizziness is the "official" word), or if he was sort of consciously overblowing the situation as if he was trying to find a way to get out of finishing the show. I think this sort of theory, that he didn't want to finish the show or do the tour and overexaggerated this "incident" to the point of dramatizing it in the front of the audience to try to get out of finishing the show, is probably way beyond what really happened. But, I've heard some people say that Brian even today can be surprisingly crafty and ingenious in being manipulative in certain ways, so I certainly can't rule this possibility out 100%.

But at the same time, it did seem like Brian really was upset (if not a bit scared) about not being able to finish the show for whatever reason, which would contradict this theory that he was trying to manipulate his way out of doing the show or tour. I dunno. Strange stuff. Even if everything is as benign as they are saying, and Brian is fine and wants to tour, they need to realize that we are now going beyond even the normal problems of the last 8 years of Brian seeming ill at ease on stage and prompting questions of whether he wants to be out touring. Whatever is really happening, they have to realize that the appearance to some is now not only that he may not be as enthusiastic about touring as one would hope, but that he may not be best served by being out there touring in terms of his health. Again, I'm talking about what the appearance is, as we obviously cannot know the details of what his health actually is. But even taking all of the "official" statements as totally accurate, I'm surprised they are not more concerned about how this all appears to fans and outsiders.

I should reiterate that while I still have a lot of questions and concerns about the broader question of whether or how Brian should continue touring, I have to say having been at the Saratoga show, that the "official" explanation just posted on the bw.com message board seems totally feasible; as I said before, I don't think what happened in Saratoga is in and of itself a particularly problematic event. But it is, rightly or wrongly, prompting a lot of more thought and discussion from fans about these issues we've been discussing.

Just a bit of a correction: His Bay Area shows haven't been quite this lumped together. He played San Francisco in November '04 and Berkeley in September '05, then as you say Oakland in January of this year and then Saratoga in June. So, while I would agree that they didn't leave a lot of time between San Francisco and Berkeley, or Oaklanda and Saratoga, they did at least leave about 16 months between Berkeley in '05 and Oakland in '07. It's probably not a coincidence that, by my total guess, the San Francisco and Oakland shows seemed to be nearly if not fully sold out, while it was the Berkeley and Saratoga shows that probably lagged in sales a bit.

Well, if that's the case, he sure as hell needs to slow down.

Exactly.

I think part of the reason why this whole "Lucky Old Sun" thing is such a big deal to me is because I have a feeling this may be the last new work from Brian. And really, if it means his health, then it should be.

I dunno. Something either in terms of the explanation, or at least in terms of the timeframe of these decisions, is rather confusing. The statement from Al seems to suggest that he decided either before or after the Monterey show on the 9th that he wasn't doing Europe. But we have an account from somebody in Saratoga on the 11th of Al talking about playing Europe. It may just be that Al and Brian talked about the European tour in Monterey, but only after the 11th did Al and Brian make the final decision.

Something odd is going on; if nothing else, we are getting only bits and pieces of information. But I will say that I don't think anybody should assume that Brian's "spell" has anything to do with Al not going to Europe. It may have played a part, but I would tend to doubt it. Sometimes two different odd things happen at the same time but really don't have anything directly to do with each other. I know that Al somehow "protesting" Brian continuing to tour sounds noble on the part of Al, and this scenario certainly is the most feasible of any scenarios I can think of in which the "incident" and Al's non-appearance in Europe are actually connected. But I still think that the two things don't have anything to do with each other.

Why is Melinda posting and not Brian?  Even if "Brian" on the board really is Melinda at times, or who knows, maybe not.  It might help if they added a post from Brian himself or, er, "Brian."  In any case, this does not look good, and it's hard to spin, no matter what the truth is.

I don't think "Brian" has posted there for over a year now.

I think these conspiracy theories get out of hand. I don't say this because I'm naive, but because I've never seen a shred of evidence to the contrary. Brian's band strike me as decent people-- you think they'd stick around for 8 years knowing that Brian is being abused and manipulated?
I don't know what the truth is either, but I'll give you a possible version of it:

*Melinda is posting (and not Brian) because Brian is getting ready to leave for a European tour this afternoon.
Or because Melinda (anyone, for that matter) is far more articulate at explaining these things than Brian.
Or because Brian didn't feel like explaining it.
*Brian had a dizzy spell on stage because he was dehydrated.
Or because he was under hot lights
Or because he was tired
Or maybe because he was briefly protesting the show, but, as Darian has said, he feels one way one moment and one way the next, and this was just a passing moment of rebellion.
Who knows? I have dizzy spells and have actually fainted in the past, and I know I'm not in dire health. It happens. And the advice I was given by a doctor? "If it happens again, sit down on the ground, whereever you are, no matter how foolish it looks, to save yourself the possibility of stitches."
*Al quit the tour because he wanted Brian to have the spotlight
Or because Brian wanted the spotlight and asked him to step aside
Or because Al would have had to foot the expenses of the tour for himself
Or because Al just didn't feel like touring
If Al is disgusted by the way Brian is supposedly being treated, you'd think he'd want to STAY for his "dear friend," and not leave him to his "handlers." So I don't know how realistic that theory is.

I'm not an insider, and I don't know anything. But I don't think most of you know much about this either.

Well, I'm pissed.

It's not only for the two concert tickets, two plane tickets to Germany, couple of nights at the hotel, days off at work (hard to get), no, it's mostly the disappointment to know that there goes the last and only chance (being located in Europe) to see Al Jardine ever.
And also to realize it two weeks before the event, after waiting 3 months (and 10 years).

So let's quickly analyze the possible reasons:
 
Financial
The tour would have never been announced without having analyzed costs and revenue and agreed on all the participants fees.
All the details were probably finalized, down to flight tickets and hotel reservations.
Also, most of ticket sale is concluded and I assume the volumes have been known to the management for some time.
So I doubt it's related to the low ticket sale (if it is low, even). Al's cancellation will results in tickets being returned, if anything.
The cancellation is certainly not good for Brian's management image, and that translate to a future financial loss.
So I would exclude the financial reason, unless:

• internal costs have increased for some force majeure reason
• Al requested higher fee than previously agreed and got rejected.  I would still exclude this, as there doesn't seem business reasons to justify this (unless they asked him to sing more leads and he demanded a raise..)
• Costs analysis were not done until now

Health
If Brian's health is a concern for the tour, then Brian should cancel the tour. It doesn't seem reasonable the Al would.
Also doesn't seem believable that Al would resign just not to see Brian suffering or being overloaded. The tour would take place with or without Al so Brian would carry the same load (or technically more, since he gets all the leads).
I also don't think it's about Brian trying to get the whole tour canceled by causing complaints related to Al as he would never pull it off with his management. And I really doubt Al would risk that much

Album
Al's solo album has been waiting since 1961, and certainly since 1998. It doesn't seem reasonable to think one month delay would have an impact on the schedule.  He is recording on his own studio, he doesn't have recording fees or tight schedules (altough I guess his studio is booked by other artists).
Plus touring and being associated with Brian would only benefit his image and popularity. He could have even played one of the new songs and helped promoting the album.
Also, by resigning, Al is risking to deteriorate his relationship and collaboration with Brian, including guesting on his album (interesting to note the decision was apparently taken after Brian recorded for the album).
On the latest ESQ Al states his album is due this summer. I have a strong feeling that won't happen, even if he stays at home

Involvement
Al might have been unhappy on his limited involvement on the show. He only had few leads and was limited to rhythm guitar and harmonies. Which is exactly the same involvement he had in the Beach Boys since day 1.
So this seems quite an unreasonable explanation. Nobody would risk everything for a sudden ego trip.
I could maybe believe he discussed his wishes, but I don't think he would ever resign because of this.

Planned
It was all planned from the beginning to sell more tickets. Image suicide, extremely unlikely.
Also I was in contact with someone close to the band just few days ago and all indicated with certainty that Al would be there.
I trust that source 120%.

Personal
Al just realized he's happier at home and touring is no longer for him. Maybe family reasons force him to stay at home.
This is certainly a possibility. But again, the tour was definitively positive for his career and image so I'd guess he would try everything he could to attend it. 
In the last ESQ Al states that he considers himself a Beach Boys and that he's so happy to be part of this again, etc

Other
I can't think of other reasons, can you?  Maybe I'm overlooking something plainly simple..


Well, I'm pissed.

It's not only for the two concert tickets, two plane tickets to Germany, couple of nights at the hotel, days off at work (hard to get), no, it's mostly the disappointment to know that there goes the last and only chance to see Al Jardine ever.
And that really, really sucks!


Thanks for reading, comments are welcome.
STE

It's nothing irregular for the Beach Boys story to have rumour, intrigue, confusion and strange things going on behind the scenes...and Mike Love isn't even involved!
I guess in about 20 years we will all be able to read about it!

I think after the Landy years I hope Al would come out and say if he thought Brian was being miss-handled today.

One for the pot. Mike called Al up to rejoin him!  ;D

Wow STE, that really stinks. :(

Email Al, STE.  You never know.

I agree that voicing conspiracy theories as if they have been proven or are definitely true is not a good thing, but I think most people posting here, definitely myself, have made it clear that, not unlike your post, we are just throwing ideas out there as to possible reasons behind all of this. We are not being given much information. Regarding Brian's health, while I would hope that fans would be told the truth and kept up to date (and they may well be doing just that), fans certainly are not owed any information about Brian's health.

But, regarding Al not appearing in Europe, I do think that people who bought tickets to those shows are owed a better explanation. Reading Al's statement, I'm thinking that Al isn't even trying to hold any information back. It sounds to me like joining Brian on tour, whether in Europe or in past shows that he has done, has not been any sort of huge event for him, or perhaps a better way to put it is that I think maybe both Brian and Al underestimate how big of a deal it is to many fans for those two to appear together. It sounds like Al is almost underestimating how much the fans want to see him specifically, as if having Al at the show is something that the fans would take or leave.

While I actually ended up getting to see Al with Brian in Saratoga (and let me reiterate that setting aside all of the drama, it was really a great show both from Al and Brian and the band), I did sort of deal with having to decide whether to buy tickets and go to the show in relation to whether Al would be there or not. Al was originally on the billing, at which time I was totally jazzed about seeing the show. When they took Al's name off and said he wasn't scheduled to be there, I had to think about whether I was going to shell out around $200 for two tickets to see Brian on June 11th, having just seen both Brian and Al together on January 28th. I went ahead and got tickets anyway, since it is Brian Wilson and however long he tours in the future, chances are becoming fewer and fewer to see him. Plus, the Mountain Winery in Saratoga is quite a good concert venue, quite intimate, not a bad seat in the place. But, for a brief moment when I was really jazzed about seeing Al and Brian, I considered actually buying from a ticket broker even better seats than what I assumed I would end up getting through Ticketmaster, just to be closer to the stage to see Al and Brian. Once Al was no longer scheduled, I was no longer at all motivated to buy extra tickets just to get closer (and I probably wouldn't have done it even if Al was scheduled; I've never and probably never will buy tickets from a broker). Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I can understand how some people, even huge "Brianistas", would have only bought tickets to a show because Al was going to be there. On the one hand, maybe Brian's "people" might be surprised that so many people in Europe were going specifically because Al was going to be there. On the other hand, I can't imagine a lot of fans actually trying to refund or otherwise get rid of their tickets because of Al's cancellation. If I had bought tickets to a show expecting Brian and Al, and Al was dropped, I'd probably still go to the show.

I agree with you that people are owned an explanation about Al. Someone here did post an article in which Al said it was his decision and it was because of his album. So there's an explanation, and if it's true, it's kind of thoughtless of him to not think of the fans. Who knows-- maybe he didn't think he was that big of an attraction.

Melinda has posted on the blueboard saying that anyone who no longer wants to go to the Europe concerts due to Al's absence can send in their tickets for a full refund. I think that's very generous. The only thing it doesn't take into account is airfare and hotels, which she can't do anything about.

Of course I don't mind speculation about Brian, but when it spirals into this "Brian is in poor health," "Brian hates touring," "Brian is being forced to work," business, well, there's no way of knowing that, and these discussions were coming out of a dizzy spell that Brian had. It seemed like a stretch to me. IMO, you can speculate all you want about whether Brian wants to be there or not, but to actually _decide_ that he doesn't want to be there based on nothing but hearsay and the posts of people on message boards is ridiculous. Melinda takes a lot of heat, but to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she's in it for love, it must be very difficult dealing with a husband/musical legend who runs so hot and cold in every aspect of his life.
I've said it before and I'll say it again-- If she's going this maliciously, the only motivator would be money, and supposedly they're not making much money off this. I can only conclude, without any other facts, that she's doing what she believes is best for Brian-- the Brian who says he's actually enjoying touring and who sometimes gets a rush from creating and entertaining. It would be a heck of a lot easier for Melinda to sit on her laurels and enjoy Brian's millions.

 Billy wrote
Then I'm going to say something that I've held back on saying for a while. I think Brian's marriage is the biggest sham of all. I think at one point he & Melinda did love each other, but at this point...I think it's nothing more than a business arrangement. A bad one at that, too.  

Billy I am going to quote David Marks from a 1999 or 2000 on line chat. He said "it's too bad Brian didn't find someone to love him for him". After that and a very unpleasant phone conversation with David Leaf I began to think these people around Brian aren't who they seem to be. Since then I talked to several people who have seen Leaf and Melinda "gang up" on Brian if he did a bad show. One told me he was screamed at by them. I held back until now but everyone here must accept the truth. We can't do anything about it because Brian allows it to happen. Jardine probably leanred the truth the hard way. This isn't gossip it is just some hard truths that because I respect Brian have held back. Now I am sincerely worried about him and can no longer hold my tongue.

Then Brian should divorce her and find some new friends.

I'm serious. I dislike this entire line of discussion -- even if it's true. If so, Brian is being a wuss. If not, it speaks to our desire to believe the worst about people.

In either case, I don't much like the answer.

Me too. I gave my ticket to my brother, hope he will enjoy the show!

What happened, if I may ask?

If you had asked me in 1998 what I though of Melinda and Leaf it would have been full of praise. I don't think I am trying to believe the worst about people, I am only telling it like I see it from certain incidents I have heard about or gone through. Brian is a very nice man, but he also a very ill man and has been since at least 1974 or 75. Before that he managed without handlers and bodyguards, since then he hasn't maybe by choice. Perhaps he is the best he can be considering, but I think he is in a Catch 22. Creatively I cannot truly complain, I think most of the shows and albums since 99 are worthy, but at what cost? I imagine finish Smile did heal something in Brian but as HEY JUDE said why knock yourself out to sing Catch A Wave. I am sure Melinda and Leaf do actually care about Brian to some extent, but they seem to be arrogant people who see themselves as better then the fans, and to know what's better for Brian then he does. That is just my impression from my admittedly limited interaction with them. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear but it's coming from a very sincere place. Again as bad as we must all feel there is not much we can do.

Well, I'm taking BWPS to the grave with me. I am thankful for that, no matter what kinds of people Brian lives/ deals with. Let's PRAY the best for him.

Basically I wanted to interview him for a project I am actually still working on (I was in college then so it was only part time thus me finishing it now). Anyhow I told him that it was something that put the whole group's talent in perspective and he just got very nasty from that point in. Really hurt my feelings and almost made me give up what I was doing. I was younger then and had a much thinner skin, but he was just plain mean practically shouting at me. I was very respectful to him and was truly shocked by his behavior.

I'm amazed at this thread.

Actually, no I'm not. That's the saddest part.

Band Member Drops Out of Pop Musician's Summer Shows
Management and sham-wife puppeteers suspected of conspiracy and mental abuse



It's just pop music, and you have all the albums. You'll be okay.

How well put..

Thanks Mike for coming out and saying that.I know we've discussed things in the past that I've kept in confidence as I have with others...you're not the only one who's had some bad experiences.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...for those who think that this is all just empty conjecture, keep this in mind...what would any of us have to gain by saying such things?Nothing. It's not like I enjoy knowing some of the things I do. Quite the opposite, in fact. Makes one feel dirty.
Why doesn't Brian do something about it? Ironically, it was David Leaf who said that "Brian turns the other cheek so much he's got whiplash". It seems like everyone who has to deal with Brian's people gets burned by them, and the line's getting longer.I do wish Brian would DO something, but the fact is, he just doesn't really care. In a way, this is comfortable for him, because this is the only life he knows.

Now you know who strikes me as  real, decent, actually caring people, that actually care about Brian? Peter Reum. Brian's band. Al. Mark Linnett.  From the sounds of things, David Marks. THOSE are the people who genuinely care for Brian.

True, but it offends me on a human level.

and Luther.




(just for a laugh, Luther, trying to lighten things up.. ;D)

No offense taken!

And to be clear, I care that Brian is all right, too...but I have no way to know. I don't believe much of what I see, especially on the films he releases. I don't know him or his family or his band or his friends or...

So I'm not going to get worked up that Al backs out of some shows, and I certainly am not going to get all worked up about whether this is more "evidence" of sinister forces. It's pop music. My favorite pop music ever, and deeply meaningful to me. But pop music made by people who, for the most part, don't exist other than as recorded sound to me. I can pretend they do by re-watching the films, listening to sessions boots, going to more shows and trying to meet people backstage or after shows, but none of that quite adds up to anything much other than a thrill. I don't know Brian. I don't know Al. I don't know Melinda, or David Leaf or any of the others. And they're not characters in some soap opera, they're people living out their lives.

(And we're strangers questioning their intentions, moral character, ethics, talent, and so on.)

Billy: I think David Leaf is very defensive of the idea that Brian was the sole creative force of the BBs. He's been a longtime proponent of that idea -- indeed he was central in creating it. I think folks who challenge that -- and I think the pro-Mike, pro-other group member stances that have evolved online have been useful -- just don't have a place in his world.

Basically I wanted to interview him for a project I am actually still working on (I was in college then so it was only part time thus me finishing it now). Anyhow I told him that it was something that put the whole group's talent in perspective and he just got very nasty from that point in. Really hurt my feelings and almost made me give up what I was doing. I was younger then and had a much thinner skin, but he was just plain mean practically shouting at me. I was very respectful to him and was truly shocked by his behavior.
[/quote]

I don't think nasty behavior from someone necessarily means that that person is a key player behind a vast conspiracy to control someone else's life. People aren't good/bad, hero/villain. Leaf, and well as Melinda, might have their moments of nastiness, but to me that doesn't automatically mean that they're totally negative forces in Brian's life.  I wish Peter Carlin would weigh in, because he had some interesting ideas about how Brian is really the one calling the shots in his own way.
Wow, Brian has a dizzy spell on stage, Al cancels a tour, and it leads to all this. It must be Melinda and David Leaf's fault. You guys simplify things just as much as David Leaf does.

What's interesting is that 50 years from now, this speculation will be totally legitimate for cultural historians. Of course, historians base _their_ theories on solid evidence...

I want to state clearly that this is not something that keeps me up at night. The music IS all that matters really, but on a personal level it is sad to see someone who has enriched my life not having an easy time of it.  They are real people and I don't claim to have the final word on any of them. It's not a HUGE deal that Al quit or that Brian got ill in and of itself. I am not blaming Leaf or Melinda outright because I don't know. All I can do is share with you what I have observed and let you tie it together anyway you wish.  I never said anyone was evil here, all I can say is that Brian lives up to who you think he is and some people around him don't in my experience.

Well put.

I think, given the opportunity, Mike and Brian would become a lot closer.  However, there are forces around the band that make it hard sometimes.

That was Carl Wilson's statement.

And what do you know.... it is still true  >:(

It is.

A certain member of Brian's band (I won't say which one) once told me "Brian's the sweetest guy in the world...some of the people around him are kind of creepy, but if I had a chance to save Brian's life by cutting off my own arm...I'd effin' do it, man!". 

I just wanted to add that I do feel bad for folks in Europe who went out of their way to arrange to see the Brian/Al show.  I was never a big fan of Al Jardine the person, mostly based on interviews he's done over the years.  I thought he was a bit arrogant and believed himself to be too large a figure in Beach Boys history.  After seeing him with Brian this past January in Oakland, I changed my opinion.  He's a wonderful figure in his own right; maybe not the best singer (though better than Brian at this point in their lives), but his vocals on songs such as "And Then I Kissed Her" and "California Saga" were a high point of the show.  Plus, he just seemed to bring out the best in Brian.  There was a palpable affection between the two men, very touching to see them together in their later years (the Beach Boys as Golden Boys).  It's sad people are going to miss out on that, as well as Brian and Al missing out on it.  I have to think this didn't happen due to a falling out.  I wish the best to both Bri and Al, and hope that Brian has many years of continued good health and a happy life.  If cutting back or stopping touring is the best way to facilitate that, then that decision needs to be made.  By someone.

Carl was as always right on target. Mike and Brian nearly always look very happy together. I think the recent suits are misguided at best but on a personal AND creative level keeping them apart is sad.  Watch Stebbins Wouldn't It Be Nice doc for the truth about Brian and the Beach Boys post 1998

I gotta say, I have days when I'm on top of the world and bad days as well.  I have no mental illness that I know of.  Brian Wilson does.  He had a bad day.  He felt dizzy, he sat down on the stage, he said he may not be able to finish the night, but did, and did very well from what I hear.  I really don't see the problem here.  Sounds like he just happened to have a little dizzy spell while he was on stage, and reacted like Brian reacts to things.  He has a certain personality, he's a little peculiar and he freaked out a little bit.  No need to put the man in mothballs because he did something goofy on stage!

Al probably seemed more concerned because the other band members have been touring with Brian for the past 6 or 7 years and likely see Brian do goofy stuff all the time.... plus Al strikes me as a bit of a softy (gotta love him).

I still say Brian has made it commmmpletely clear that if he doesn't want to do something, he won't do it.  If he didn't want to tour, he wouldn't be touring, simple as that.  His wife probably goads him into it, but there isn't a man alive who doesn't do something because his wife talks him into it.  Brian Wilson clearly needs prodding to do anything other than sleep.  Melinda loves him enough to make him actually do something with his life, god bless her. 

OH, another thing I want to say.

Al Jardine has sued and slandered everybody IN the beach boys.  Sometimes he had good reason, sometimes he didn't. 

If Brian was being manipulated.... Al Jardine would tell us Brian was being manipulated.  You have GOT to believe that. 

Brilliant observation, IMHO.  Brian Wilson is a  cash cow when it comes to royalties off Beach Boys songs he wrote, which requires no active participation from him.  If Melinda only wanted money she'd just let him do whatever he wanted and get the money from the royalties, selling 1500 tickets a show with a 10 piece band on the other side of the world isn't making anybody a fortune. 

He Said He Said. 

I think someone could prod Brian to remain active out of ego (reflected glory), not necessarily money.   Not that  that's the case, but I don't think putting it all in monetary terms explains everything.  I, too, have learned a couple of things about Brian behind the scenes.  It's not really that horrendous, I don't think even if it's true it's that necessarily harmful to Brian, and I'd rather not go into it.  But I think most of us love Brian for his artistry, and his artistry may be compromised if he's forced to do things he doesn't want to do (including singing "Sail On Sailor," if he really wasn't kidding about not liking singing it).  And to me, gentle, loving prodding can constitute force for someone as gentle and passive as Brian can be.  The pushing and pullling may be out of love on both sides, but hey, Brian is 65 years old!  It just is not the same as when he was even 55 years old.  He does not need to do anything.  He's an intelligent man, and if he wants to sit around and watch TV, I'm sure he will get something out of even that.  He has three young kids to play and hang out with at home.  If he's up and out of his bed every day, playing music, watching TV, going out to dinner and movies, seeing his friends, and doing other everyday things, then he is not harming himself.  That is a healthy retired life.  Travel is hell on  young people.  I know I hate getting on planes and dealing with airports when I do it sometimes for vacations.  It's tiring, and it can make your back and legs hurt, even if you are in good shape.  I'm not saying I know what the right answer is, but I don't agree with those who insist that Brian touring around or even recording is what he needs to be doing, otherwise he will suffer from bad mental health.   I know plenty of retired people of all ages who live productive lives without doing work, because there's way more to life than just working.

Amen.
Really? When did he say that?

At the Saratoga show, before starting the song, Brian made a comment, I can't remember the exact wording, but it was something about how it wasn't his favorite song but he was going to sing it anyway. I don't remember saying he didn't like singing it. It was a funny, typical Brian type of comment. I think Al even commented about how he really liked the song, sort of humorously letting Brian know that the song was good.

Here's my personal view why Al won't join Brian & band in Europe (I know, I probably shouldn't post this):
because Al didn't find the Brian he expected
because the ticket sales aren't too good
in the middle of the Brian/Al excitement his unfinished solo album went on preorder. That says it all for me.

True, Al stated in that doc. that he tried to call Brian but people around Brian (whom he called "my best friend") wouldn't let him.

Several things still just don't make sense still to me.

Al implies he wants to go to Europe with some new tunes. Brian's current setlist is a greatest hits show and IMO boring for any BB fan.  Surely a opportunity to flick some of those tunes for some new Al stuff with a Brian backing. Who cares about FFF or Barb Ann again. Give a unrealeased Al track anyday.

But no. We are told the reason is to finish a solo album that is now going to be given away to a large portion of the potential market. Now is this album a signed deal by a label requiring it to be in stores by a required date or is this going to be one of those available on Al's site or worse, looking for a deal like MIkes?

Upsetting your European audience now is not going to encourage them to book tickets in the future.

Just a thought. Reviews and fans have mentioned how good Al has been on stage with Brian. Any chance Brians handlers have thought he is too good?

Imagine this: Al comes back for the RFH shows in September, and the song performed to commemorate a "very important anniversary" is "Honkin' Down The Highway", from Love You (1977)...  ;D

It's going to be something for 9-11. Now that will be a party pooper.

I find the recent statement in the Magic piece about Alan 'hoping to have the album out by the end of the year' somewhat undermines the sudden urgency surrounding the CD that requires him to withdraw from the Euopean tour.

 :-\

You know, all this speculation may bother some fans, but blame Brian's camp as well, whoever they were in 1976, 1988, 1998, 2004... They could have chosen to sell "Brian the musician", but the temptation was too strong and he's always been sold as "Brian the genius - now he's healed thanks to us - this time he's really back believe me - he's a hero given what he's been through".

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Amen

Here's two ideas for the conspiracy theorists:

(1) Al is finally "getting back" at Brian by dropping out of a tour (the way Brian did to Al and the others back in late '64/early '65), and perhaps planned it this way all along

(2) Al has visa problems and CAN'T go to Europe (which explains why he played "Pet Sounds" shows with Brian in the STATES last November, but skipped the show at the Adelphi in London)...he hoped to have them straightened out in time for this trip, and held out until virtually the last minute, but finally had to give up and admit it wasn't going to happen.

Of course, I don't really believe either of these....  :)

I assume you're joking, thus the smiley face, but...

I'm sure it was nice for Brian and Al to "reunite", like two old friends sharing some time together after many years apart. And, even though I haven't seen any shows with both of them, I'm sure Al made a good contribution to the live act, but...

I really don't think Brian cares (I'm not sure what word to use, maybe "prefers") who is standing next to him on stage, playing rhythm guitar and singing - whether it's Al Jardine, Matt Jardine, or Lady Lynda Jardine. 

Here's one I like:

Al - "You know, Brian, this has been fun but wouldn't be fun to get back together with Mike's band and tour as the Beach Boys?"

Brian " "Sure, Al, whatever you say"

Brain's Handlers - "oh, HELL no!"

Brian - "Uh, Al, maybe you should just go back and work on your album while I go to do the tour in Europ.  My wife and manager thinks that's a good idea"

 :lol

Dave

That one is at least perfectly plausible, if someone is having problems getting his passport renewed, like many, many other U.S. citizens.

I hate getting involved in these discussions about conspiracies and plots every time something happens in the Beach Boy world that some fans don't like.  This whole thing about Jardine dropping out of the tour takes the cake.  When a perfectly reasonable explanation comes about why he can't tour is released, people dismiss it because it won't confirm their notions of the terrible things that Melinda or Leaf do to Brian, their evil plot to keep Brian away from the rest of the Beach Boys, and of course their forcing of Brian to work against his own will.  Never mind that not one person here has any idea of what goes on behind the scenes.  Here is a message that the person who wrote the article about why Jardine isn't touring left on the BB Board, I think it's pretty straight forward.

Re(2): That THAT makes sense.
Posted on June 14, 2007 at 02:11:09 PM by Howie Edelson

Hey Guys -

I wrote that piece and did the interview with Al. There's no secret agenda or anything other than he's busting his as* and really gaining steam on the LP. He sounds so pumped about this thing, it's incredible. He's taken a pretty hard slamming for backing off the tour. I feel bad for the guy. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. From what he described, the album is going to be exactly what we've always wanted from him.

Well, maybe Al sees this album as a way to consolidate his position with Brian, since Brian actually carried through with participating in it.  It's going to get more exposure and sales with Brian's involvement.  Plus, if Al does ever play with Brian again in the future, he will have new songs to do.  And Al can participate in Brian albums, and there can be a little Beach Boys renaissance.

I still think Brian has been overtouring, from the standpoint of his well-being and even his career.  After all, if he "retires" for a little while, assuming he's still healthy in a couple of years, he can then "come back," which might do really well for his ticket sales and prices. 

Yes, yes, and yes. Thank you. I agree.

Same here.

(http://www.liv.ac.uk/~sdb/Safari-2001/Images/457%20Vultures%20kill.jpg)

Where did you get that picture of my in-laws eating Thanksgiving dinner??

He was in Italy last year for his son's wedding, and the UK before that. No problem with the visa at all.

Ha!

AGD, point of clarification -- I was referring more to the fact that a lot of Americans are having problems getting their passports renewed, due to new U.S. passport regs creating a sudden and huge backlog of applications, more than I was to Al's situation.

Just so's ya know.  8)

So that you know, the real reasons why Al is out are 80% politic, 20% album.

Sources?  Come on now, don't say something like that and not back it up!!   :)

He's right.

Yup.

Politics...Well I'll be!
I never knew Bush valued Al so highly that he would ask him to stay in the US rather than tour. Are we talking the Economy or a chance to help-out with the Middle East conflict? ;)

Yeah, we're sending Bruce over to Iraq with copies of Going Public. Expect our troops home in a week! :lol

I just went thru passport hades.  I applied in Feb, and just got it at the end of May, just 2 weeks before I was to leave the country.  When I applied, the officals said it would be 8 weeks at the most, I think now it is 12-16 weeks before it is processed.

Here in the UK, a passport is valid for 10 years - evidently a better system.

So are US passports.

Really ? Didn't know that. Thing is, for a lot of non-EU countries, iffn you want to visit your passport has to have at least six month's validity remaining. Plus to get one renewed, if you pay £4 over the odds, it's fast-tracked. I think the longest it's taken me is four weeks.

I checked mine, and sure enough, the expiration date is 10 years from issue date. As for any of the other details...no idea. I don't even like traveling.

The reason for the backlog is because the govt is requiring passports if an American leaves the US by air, the only way they are getting back into the US is with a passport;  as of Jan 1 of next year passports will be required for all modes of travel, even travel into Canada and Mexico. 
The day I left for the Caribbean, I had heard on the news that the govt was loosening the restrictions of needing passports for some countries, including the one i went to, because of the huge backlog....

Al is out - 80% policitcs?  Whose politics?  Brians management?  Is it simply down to the money (ticket sales have make it 'not profitable enough' to have Al in the band.)  This I can understand.

Can someone amplify on this?  "I'm bugged at my old 'Smiley Smile Board Men'" who sit there smugly 'in the know', hint at inside info but never come forth with the info.  LOL - just making a joke.  Don't get mad AGD.

Actually, I feel very lucky that I have a board like this with so many 'insiders/researchers' in the know who give us information.  Nothing like this for my other favorite band, "The Alan Parsons Project".  Kidding, the Beatles.  (though I do love the APP)

I wish I could give more details on the subject but there was no chance to discuss the issue further as something else came up (actually Brian showed up so I left the conversation)

I'm speaking in general terms here, of course [koff], but quite often information comes your way with long strings attached.

Let's just put it this way....nothing in the world of the Beach Boys or Brian Wilson is cut-and-dried.