The Smiley Smile Message Board

After checking out a few YouTube videos of Beach Boys concerts from the 80's and 90's, it was nice to see footage of Carl Wilson singing "Wouldn't It Be Nice".  He sang it live far better than Al Jardine ever did.  It is a bit of a bummer that a recording of one of these performances never made it (officially) onto CD.  That Hallmark CD of live tracks that came out last year would have been the perfect opportunity to feature this song (as would a live version of "Don't Worry Baby" featuring Carl and Jeff Foskett singing lead).  So for those involved with Beach Boys projects: is there any chance these performances could ever make it to CD????

Couldn't agree more.  Those two performances were always some of my favorites from later years. Al did some great lead vocals live, but could never pull off WIBN like Carl. Likewise, Don't Worry Baby lost some of it's soul to me when Carl gave it away.   As for other favorites, I would throw Al and Matt teaming up on "You're So Good To Me" in 96 and 97 in there as well

I disagree...I thought Al sang WIBN better. He had better phrasings with it, Carl didn't have Brian's phrasings. He always had trouble with L's and R's.
Example: It sounds like Wouldn't It Be Nice if We Were Odah. I love Carl's voice, Carl put alot of enegy into it,  but Al's voice was more similar to Brian's and it worked better in my opinion.  It was so nice to great  Al take some of the lead on it again with Brian

Overall, I like Carl's voice better, but on WIBN, I'd say Al is far superior.  His vocal was a lot more "crisp".

To be honest (and I am really embarassed to admit this) sometimes I can't tell the difference between Brian's voice and Al's. I used to get Brian and Carl mixed up but now thats a cinch. But there are some songs I could've sworn were Brian only to find out they were Al (Break Away, Vega-Tables [the SMiLE version, not Smiley-smile which I guess is Al as well] to name a few)... Is there any hope for me? :-[

Interesting opinions we have here.  I always felt Al's take on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" was always extremely dull.  His performance of the song never sounded right to me at all.  Carl sang it differently but included much needed soul to the song. 

I wouldn't worry..I think there are plenty of experts still listening to songs trying to figure out whether its Brian or Al. For two people not related, its really amazing. I know voices have changed over the years, but in the concerts I saw in the fall, when they sang the first chorus of Sloop John B together like they used to, there were a couple of times when their notes were perfectly blended together so it actually did sound like 1 person...amazing after all these years

I agree there should be some official release of Carl singing WIBN. But I think Al does it alot better.

And Al sang Breakaway? Wow. He just went up a few notches there in my book.

Al sings the chorus of Break Away.

No shame in that. Peruse these (and other BBs-related sites) and you'll find plenty of discussions, arguments, etc. in which "experts" debate them.

I kind of have to agree that Wouldn't It Be Nice never sounded right but not because of Al just because the music when they played it live just always sounded a bit off to me. Compare that to songs like Good Vibrations and God Only Knows etc.. and those songs generally sounded really good to me in a live context.

Oh. Who sings the verse?

On the properly released version: Carl.

To my ear:

Carl:

Time will not wait for me
Time is my destiny
Why change the part of me that has to be free
The love that passed me by
I found no reason why

But now each day is filled with the love
That very same love
That passed me by
And that is why

Alan:

I can breakaway from that lonely life
And I can do what I wanna do
And breakaway from that empty life
And my world is new

Carl:

When I layed down on my bed
I heard voices in my head
Telling me now "Hey it's only a dream"
The more I thought of it
I had been out of it
And here's the answer I found instead

Mike: (not the stuff in parenthesis, the other lines)

(Baby baby)
Found out it was in my head
(Baby baby)
(Baby baby)
Found out it was my head
(Baby baby)
(Baby baby)
Found out it was in my head
(Baby baby)

Alan:

And I can breakaway to the better life
Where the shackles never hold me down
I'm gonna make a way for each happy day
As my life turns around

Then it's the group on the tag with Mike on bass.

I always thought Al sounded great on the live version of "WIBN" until the early '80s.  At that point, for some reason, it sounds like he gave up trying, and couldn't hit the right notes anymore.  When Carl took it over, it was a welcome relief IMO.  But back in the late '60s and through the '70s, Al did great with it.

I'm pretty sure this part is Brian:

That very same love
That passed me by
And that is why

I was just reading about "Break Away" on another board, and came upon this quote.  Here is what Stephen Desper has to say about the vocals.



The following information is Copyright © by Stephen W. Desper, 2005. Reproduction or use is by permission only.

 "The vocals are all straight forward recording with the group on a Neumann U67 and Mike on a RCA DX77 all singing together. Several layers of background parts are recorded. Carl’s verse and Brian’s chorus performance are all via a U67 with little limiting, mostly used riding gain manually to control dynamics – especially the fantastic punchy vocal that Brian can belt out when he wants to. Mike’s accent parts have a little more then usual reverb applied to help them to blend with the trombones. The reverb is from a room and not a plate device. None of the other voices have applied reverberation. Murry appeared at one vocal session much to the dread of the group. As soon as we heard he was on his way, the tensions went up and Brian froze – the session went on to give Murry the impression that the guys were working hard on “his” song when he arrived, but in reality all creation stopped. When Murry arrived the control room soon filled with pipe smoke. Murry know one thing about the equipment; where the talk-back button was located. He was constantly interrupting Brian’s chorus takes from the other side of the glass with suggestions as to how Brian could improve his performance."

I'll give it a listen...

After listening, yeah, it is Brian on that bit. The chorus on the released version is Al though, I'm sure of it, with all due respect to Mr. Desper.

I completely agree with this assessment.

Well now I am even more confused about Breakaway.  :lol

Yeah, the chorus definately sounds like Al to me too.

It's Brian. From Your'e So Good To Me to some of the material on Holland  he and Al sounded very close.

OK folks. I just listened to Break Away from WotS and I think I have the code cracked...

First verse is definately Brian

Chorus is Al

Second Verse is Carl

Chorus Al (again)

Outro is Al (Oh boy you'll jump for joy etc....) with everyone else.

Listen to it. I have no doubts.

Interesting... the 20/20 is Carl on the first verse with Al et al  basically them same voicings.

Hmmmmmm.

I definately like the WotS mix better.

I'm sure that up until "But now each day is filled with the love" it's Carl...

That line, like in the orginal mix, seems to be Brian and Carl, but Carls voice is definately in the foreground on that line.

I didn't mean just that line, I'm pretty sure that (at least on the Friends + 20/20 2fer) Carl sings the first verse and Brian takes over after the line "But now each day is filled with the love". And than Al does the chorus.

The proper single version [which is on Friends-20/20] has Carl on the first verse. The Hawthorne CA version is an alternate take with Brian on the first verse. Somewhere in the Warmth of the Sun discussion thread someone noted that they'd used the Hawthorne version of the song, which really is a bit like using the Anthology version of Strawberry Fields Forever instead of the proper one on a Beatles' greatest hits. Its basically the "wrong" version.

Carl sings both verses, Alan the chorus, Mike the "Found out it was.." segment and Brian sings the "that very same love" section.

Well if the WotS Break Away is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

WotS Break Away is mixed better and is much more enjoyable (to me). The fact that Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce selected this version for inclusion on the WotS album is pretty revealing.

Maybe they didn't??? Capitol has been known to make these mistakes before!! Think Endless Summer Help me RONDA and Be True To Your School

Not to mention the horrible album version of "Rock And Roll Music" on Sounds Of Summer.  The single version is 100x better!  Also I wish they had used the "real" version of "Heroes And Villains" on Sounds Of Summer, rather than the made up Hawthorne "stereo single version", which incorporated music that was not on the original Smiley Smile release.

I understand where you are coming from re: Heroes and Villains.  But the thing for me is that the "made up" stereo single version from Hawthorne, CA sounds so much better.  The 'mud' is greatly diminished, and the sound just opens up.  Some folks like the 'mud', and I respect that, but that Hawthorne version is my favorite Beach Boys version of H&V.  If the song would've been released sounding like that, I think it would have done better than #12.  Just an opinion, natch.

So I guess some people don't like revisionism in art. I do. If something can sound better than it did when it was originally released, I'm all for it.

I kind of wish they would remix all the Beach Boys albums and all the Beatles albums.

That being said, as far as H&V is concerned I think the version on Brian's Beach Boys complilation is the best mix.

Yep, that's the mix that came from the "Hawthorne" collection and was used again on "Sounds Of Summer".

Call me sacreligious, but I'd like to see a "Best of" use a H&V that's basically the single, but with the cantina segment edited in. Also, a Surf's Up featuring the Brian/piano version with the LP instrumental track behind it for section one, and the CIFTTM LP ending too.

I'll understand if that makes me a pariah on the board. ;)

There is a bootleg put out by Purplechick that pretty successfully marries the brian piano demo and the backing track of Surf's Up.

Really I hate when remixes become the offical versions. I like things like the Hawthorne Vegatables, but Brian and the others did a great job orignally.

I don't know MBE. Seems to me like the Albums from Smiley Smile to Holland have an "unproduced" feeling. At least to me. I would take a remastered version over the originals any day.

I wouldnt say that they were better but I just like hearing re-mastered versions of songs if they open up a lot in the song. Saying that Smiley Smile I think should be left alone, its just perfect the way it is. As for Wild Honey though, I think SOME of the songs need to be re-mastered from that album.

Again I personally like them the way they are. Elvis' catalog is a mess thanks to constant remixing. The original takes and mixes deserve to be perserved. They are really the only real way to hear the Beach Boys artistic legacy as it truly transpired. No offense to those who like remixes, I think they are interesting but it becomes sad when an artists vision is played with. Even when artists do this themselves I don't like it because it's just not the real record as it was historically. Do you all like the remixes because they are different then the recordings you know well?  They may not have the same sound as what went before but I still say the 67-72 is every bit as creative and rewarding as what went before. In some ways more so. In the case of Sunflower and Surf's Up I think they are as sonically amazing as Pet Sounds or Today. This is all subjective of course, but again don't underestimate the importance of having the original sixties and Seventies mixes available. A song like Darlin or Heroes sounds great compressed.

I agree that the records deserve to be re-released as they actually sounded back when they were originally released but of course they already are on the two-fers (on the whole anyway). I think I like the re-mixes because for example the stereo mix of Pet Sounds "opens up" the track so that you can hear more of the beautiful instruments being used underneath those beautiful voices. I still prefer the mono mix because it has a nice warmth to it but I still like listening to the stereo remixes of Pet Sounds too. I would much rather have stereo mixes of certain songs than not have them. I too would be annoyed if for example the ONLY mixes available on the cd werent the original mixes but in most cases the mixes on the cds are the original mixes so I dont see a problem with it. It has nothing to do with creativity because my favourite era of The Beach Boys is from 1965-1971. I LOVE the albums from Smiley Smile to Surf's Up (they are my favourites along with the albums from Today to Pet Sounds - excluding Party!), its just I think the production could have been better on some of the songs. For example I prefer the re-mix of Let The Wind Blow. That doesnt mean that I hate the original mix but I just prefer the new mix and am glad that its available. If you prefer the original then you dont have to listen to the remix. Just my opinions anyway, but I can understand your point of view.

mikeyj I think what you said makes a lot of sense. I just don't want the original recordings to ever disappear which has happened with a few artists. Actually the original Here Today is gone now. There was a cough on all pre 1990 releases that is mixed out. That is OK but some of the compression effects on the vocals are missing too. Maybe that's minor, but I hope other songs don't get reissued without keeping the original mix out there. I do like hearing these mixes for fun, but sometimes when I hear all the unreleased songs and concerts that have not yet come out I get frustrated when they take up space on Beach Boys archive releases. No doubt you can hear dfifferent things that are of interest.

I understand your point entirely and I couldnt agree more that I dont want the original recordings to ever disappear. I dont think its minor that some of the compression effects on the vocals are missing. That is a major fault especially when the vocals are some of the most important thing on a Beach Boys record. I couldn't agree more. I would MUCH rather having songs like "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again", "Life Is For The Living" etc.. rather than ANY song that has been remixed into stereo or whatever.

I think that the albums should have the original mixes, but a greatest hits [and again, only one "ultimate" best of is needed for the Capitol era] should have remixes and other features; whatever makes the music more attractive to new listeners, which will then open the door to them buying the albums and disovering the original mixes. That said, I don't see how Brian singing the first verse of Break Away is any more welcoming than Carl singing it.

That just made me sad. I just realized that means I've never heard the "real" Here Today and likely never will.

Are we sure we're talking about "Here Today" and not "Wendy"? The latter song is the one that had the cough during the organ break. The original mono mix of "Here Today" has so much noise during the instrumental break, I'd be surprised someone would mix out a cough and leave everything else in (when it was remixed for stereo in '96, of course, Brian requested all extraneous noise be removed; Mark Linett cleverly included all the noise as a hidden bonus track on one of the "Pet Sounds Sessions" CDs).

It took me ages to hear that because I always used to stop the Cd at the end and then put on the next one.

An opinion I agree with fully!

Me too--totally!  Someone created a version like that for me in MP3 format, but the sound quality isn't what it would/could be in an official release. 



Have you ever heard the Anne Wallace version?  It's exactly as you describe, and as close to perfection as we're probably going to get.   Probably my favorite version of the song.  (Sorry, Carl!)



If it does, you're not the only one!

A lot of albums from the 60s (Pet Sounds, Odessey & Oracle, several Love albums etc.) have been reissued on CD with all the songs twice: once in the original mono mix, once in a new (stereo) mix. I think that's the way to go. I want to hear the songs the way they sounded when they first came out, but if we have the technology to make the songs sound better and clearer, I'm interested in hearing that as well.

No it's Here Today and a pre 1990 copy isn't hard to find.

The original mixes are obviously the closest to the artists original conception, but the guys were not above remixing there own tracks when given the opportunity (Surf's Up, Cabinessence, various singles) so it's not a set in stone thing. Most of the remixes so far have been really well done (exceptions=H&V, CG, and YSBIM) and I'm really looking forward to hearing my all time favorite song (PLMW) in a non-muddy sort of way. But didn't this thread have something to do with Carl?

I dig Carl on London '69

M.

Yeah, me too. I think that whole period, '68-72 was when Carl not only wrote a couple of good songs but also was at the peak of his singing. Actually, everyone was sort of at the peak of their singing! I even like Brian's new keening whine that he had in his falsetto.

I would agree with the 68-72 vocals being the best. Brian had a little more range, and Dennis really was singing beautifully. Even Mike could sound subtle then.

I was surprised when I found out that it was Mike singing on "Meant for You"... I always thought that was Brian. My respect for Mike went up a notch...