The Smiley Smile Message Board

I think its incredibly funny that people think of The Beach Boys music as fun in the sun, clean-cut good ol' American boys etc.. and yet some of their music is so far from that. For example on Be With Me, that song is such a powerful track (after listening to the backing track off Hawthorne, CA) and is lightyears away from what most people see as Beach Boys music. And I was just wondering Charles Manson had no hand in writing this one did he? I know he penned Never Learn Not To Love but did he have ANY hand in writing this song. It wouldn't surprise me if he did. But if he didn't, i feel that it just shows that The Beach Boys wrote from what they were going through which I think is why most of us love them so much, because they come off as so real. I mean look at a lot of Brian's songs from the late 60's early 70's. "Busy Doin' Nothin'", "Time To Get Alone", "'Til I Die" etc... Expressions of exactly how he was feeling. And I think the arrangement on Be With Me sums up where Dennis was at at that particular point in time superbly. I obviously dont know exactly what Dennis was going through but that song In my opinion reflects the situation of being around Charles Manson etc... By the way I was reading in Dumb Angel about how there is screams at the end of Be With Me. So I turned it up and sure enough there is audible screams at the end of the song. Does this scare the crap out of anyone else? Cause it sure scares me.

Manson supposedly cowrote BWM's lyrics.

I never found a trace of evidence supporting that.

I'm glad I wrote supposedly.  :)

I used teh search tool and came up with very little. Those who said that Mason cowrote it are people whose opinions and taste I respect but are definetly no researchers. I guess it's just a rumour.

No rumor. Confirmed to a friend of mine by someone who should know. Name of Manson. Which is why it's in the ComGuide, has been since 1997 and no-one called me on it. Check out the lyrics - parts are pure Charlie.

Youre going out tonight
You put your real cool looking clothes on
Youre getting uptight
About some little thing I said

All that I said
I couldnt play the game
It shouldnt make any difference to you

Go walking around night
The winds really blowing
Its too cold to talk
I wonder if shes knowing

She should be with me
It could set her free
Come with me
Be with me
A part of me

Everything we will see
Everything we will be
We will be

A new child is born
The mother is still waiting
Fathers over there anticipating
Wont you be with me
It could set you (us) free
Come with me
Be with me
A part of me

Whats the ComGuide??

This:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Music-Beach-their/dp/1844494268/ref=sr_1_10/102-0712386-0931304?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177609924&sr=8-10 (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Music-Beach-their/dp/1844494268/ref=sr_1_10/102-0712386-0931304?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177609924&sr=8-10)

A small thing, but mine own.  8)

BTW I do consider AGD a reaearcher.  ;D

No rumor. Confirmed to a friend of mine by someone who should know. Name of Manson. Which is why it's in the ComGuide, has been since 1997 and no-one called me on it. Check out the lyrics - parts are pure Charlie.[/quote]

Hey dude...  I called you on it years ago, maybe you didn't notice! I thought that went by you too easily. ::) I do understand CM has taken credit for that song when asked about it...but Charlie once said he wrote ALL of Dennis' songs and some of Brian's too. Personally I don't trust that particular source. I looked hard for some corroborating evidence from DW's friends and collaborators like Greg J., Stevie , Ed R. Trisha, Barbara etc.... never found anything that changed my mind. But I do agree its Charlie-esque in places. Certainly influenced by the CM time and environment at minimum.

Everyone I spoke to who knew Dennis as well told me it wasn't Manson.

Hey dude...  I called you on it years ago, maybe you didn't notice! I thought that went by you too easily. ::) I do understand CM has taken credit for that song when asked about it...but Charlie once said he wrote ALL of Dennis' songs and some of Brian's too. Personally I don't trust that particular source. I looked hard for some corroborating evidence from DW's friends and collaborators like Greg J., Stevie , Ed R. Trisha, Barbara etc.... never found anything that changed my mind. But I do agree its Charlie-esque in places. Certainly influenced by the CM time and environment at minimum.
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Don't doubt you called me on it, looks like it slipped though the holes in my brain.  :) Granted Charlie claimed he'd written "All I Want to Do" (Stevie K. soon put me straight on that), but let's meet in the middle and maybe agree, sorta, that he probably penned the chorus ?

Don't doubt you called me on it, looks like it slipped though the holes in my brain.  :) Granted Charlie claimed he'd written "All I Want to Do" (Stevie K. soon put me straight on that), but let's meet in the middle and maybe agree, sorta, that he probably penned the chorus ?
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I think its high time we disagree (slightly) on something...people are starting to talk. Now, about those drums on Surfin USA...

Manson or no Manson, it's a magnificent song.

I know...but I just can't get into NLNTL because it has that Manson shadow hanging over it....it gives me the creeps. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, because I like Be With Me so much, it has NO Manson parts, and thats my final say....!?!

Whats the odds Brian plays Never Learn Not To Love in September??

That's about as likely as me sprouting wings and flying laps around North Dakota.

I think its high time we disagree (slightly) on something...people are starting to talk. Now, about those drums on Surfin USA...
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There's a guy at the door called David Marks who knows something about that...  ::)

Funny I like Never Learn a lot and I also like Manson's demo of it. I hate saying it but he had some talent.

He had a good voice, I'll give him that much.

I can believe Manson had something to do with Be With Me. I think it has the same kind of eerie undertone that Never Learn has.

NLNTL is a beautiful song. It gives me chills, not just because of its connection with Manson...but the vocals are just inspiring. Dennis Wilson ILU.

I never knew there were tapes of Mansons floating around out there....How closely does the Beach Boy version of NLNTL sound to the Manson version???

'Bout as much as "Sail Plane Song" sounds like "Loop De Loop".

er....believe it or not, I have yet to hear those songs! So I guess they're not too similar?
What I mean is take away the fancy harmonies/production on the Beach Boys version; bare bones do they share the same lyrics, melody line, and structure??

the lyrics to "Be Still" and "Time to Live in Dreams" are stylistically similar to BWM, imo,

("And love will set you free, oh
You know, you know you are
Be still and know you are")

and they have no Manson connection. Is it definitive that Steve Kalinich had nothing to do with BWM?

noname try to listen to samples on Amazon.com they have them. Manson had an LP out in 1970 called Lie that's where it comes from. I didn't buy it but I did download the song and was surprised by how good it was. Manson sang it like an old Chicago blues song. Very diffferent and less spooky really.

That's rather funny to me. That should've been a marketing gimmick. "Forget the Beatles...the Beach Boys are spookier than Manson"!









Or not.

thanx MBE....i heard it....close enough to NLNTL for my taste. I just can't listen to that tune without an image of Charlie popping up in my mind. Of course the BB version is much better than what Charlie put out, but like you said MUCH SPOOKIER!!!

I'm ashamed to say that I like the Manson version. It's just too hard to listen to.

shame shame!

I don't see why everyone's so ashamed about liking Charles Manson songs. Liking his songwriting talent and condoning the Tate-LaBianca murders are two seperate things entirely. You all go ga-ga over Spector and he's shot and killed a girl. Manson didn't even personally kill anyone.

Aegir, you have a point....but I'm not scared of Phil Spector. He looks like a dork that we used to give wedgies to in High School...especially now with that stupid wig he has.

Charlie Manson on the other hand, he scares the Hell out of me. Charlie has a swastika tatooed on his forehead. He looks like the kid who never showered and talked to himself at the lunch table while eating his boogers.

Damn, this is a post I wish I had written.

Me too DancingBear. We should be able to seperate the act from the art.

Difference is Manson's in prison for life. Spector will get away with murder (literally) just like OJ SImpson, Robert Blake, and really just about any celebrity on trial.

But Manson's mind gangsters can still get to me through his music...!

Seriously though, I just have a hard time seperating the act from the art in the case of Charlie Manson....(I can't believe I'm actually typing this... :lol)

I am disgusted at that thought, Jaymie's Dad....Simpson,"If the glove don't fit you must acquit, and if you acquit you're full of sh*t", Blake, and the possibilty of Spector (if he did pull the trigger....which to me seems quite likely). I've known dudes who are in jail or who have been in jail for silly crimes....which is fine-you break the law you pay the price. However when I think of murderers walking around scott-free because they hired expensive and flashy lawyers I want to throw up.

To stick to the subject though, Be With Me is totally Dennis, as far as I'M concerned!

Anyone ever hear that Howard Stern interview with Brian from years ago? When they bring up Manson, Stern makes a joke as if he were Manson: "That Brian Wilson, no way, he's too weird for me..." :lol

Manson potentially could have been a half-way decent songwriter.  It certainly would have been a better job than, y'know, killing people.

There are plenty of people who (probably) killed someone but still sell records: Sid Vicious (probably killed his girlfriend Nancy), Joe Meek (shot his landlady), Phil Spector (shot that actress), Claudine Longet (shot her boyfriend), Jim Gordon (famous session drummer, killed his mom with a hammer), the guy from Noir Desir (has beaten his girlfriend to death), the guy from Burzum (stabbed a former bandmate to death, also a fireman got killed in one of the churches he'd set on fire)...

I know I sure as heck have never gone 'ga-ga' over Spector.

This guy (Bertrand Cantat) is still in prison.