The Smiley Smile Message Board

Let's discuss which album you like that most people don't. and which one most people like that you dislike.  Please be constructive and not put each other down for differing tastes. I think what we should do here is perhaps help others understand the appeal in work that presently eludes them.

I like MIU for it's singing and production beauty. I don't think it's GREAT but I do think it's something I can play for anyone without any hesitation. All of the other post 73 group albums have moments that make me cringe. Another I kind of like is 15 Big Ones. Not that it is superb either but it's the last time it felt like the group were all in the same room togeher. Nice collective feel on it. 


I dislike Love You, I just don't get it. Sure Good Time being from my favorite Beach Boys era is a great song, I cannot argue with The Night Was So Young or Ill Bet He's Nice either. Both are strong enough melodically to overcome the roller rink ogran. I sumize that a lot of people like this because it's the last album Brian really directed. If this material was producued or writen by Mike or Al I don't think it would have the affection it does have. I don't like the lyrics, am luke warm about the melodies and I can't get past the vocals.

Looking forward to other people's views that go against what is  popular or unpopular..

Well it all depends Im not sure 100% which albums people do and dont like. But according to what I think people do and dont like I actually really like L.A. (Light Album) whereas most people (I think) dont. I too also like 15 Big Ones. There is only one song on each of those albums that I really cant stand and that is Here Comes The Night and TM Song respectively. Other than that though I really enjoy both albums. Of course there not my favourites but I still can easily listen to them and I think many people overlook these albums wrongfully as they dont full give them a chance (just my opinion). I do however really like Love You as it just has this really nice charm to it. I cant explain it though. There is no album that everybody seems to like that I really dont like. Since Ive heard all of the bands stuff there isnt much that I dont like from Surfin' Safari through to L.A. (Light Album). Of course the odd song or two but generally I like all the stuff and at the worst I find most songs atleast bearable (with exception to a few songs as I mentioned). As far as the later stuff I still find the majority at least bearable but generally I dont enjoy them as much with occassionaly some songs I just absolutely cant stand (and of course some songs that I quite like - such as Somewhere Near Japan) I mainly just like those albums for Carl and Als singing - mainly Carl though.

Overrated: I don't like Wild Honey at all.

Underrated: I think that Still Cruisin' isn't nearly as bad as most people say it is. It's MUCH better than the other 80s/90s albums.

Im just interested... what dont you like about Wild Honey. Im not having a go at your opinion Im just curious as to why you dont really like it?

Overrated, I'm gonna go with SURF'S UP.  Looking at the tracklisting, it's hard to find much fault with it.  But I'm not too big on DGNTW, ...Feet, STD(hmm, never abbreviated that one!), LAT, or ....Tree(I'll bet to the dismay of many!).  And while I do think they did a great job with Surf's Up(in the context of being a SMILE leftover, it has a tacked-on feeling to it), I think I'd rather see the album end with 'Til I Die.  And the whole Riley/"conscious" nature of the album doesn't wear very well for me, though I do appreciate the cohesiveness of the sound.  I remember talking to the cashier at a record store a few years back, (when that Sub Pop 45 came out circa Pet Sounds box -  1996?), and he was talking about how he bought a vinyl copy of SURF'S UP every time he found one in good shape.  He had 4 of 'em.  Maybe I haven't had a listen to a good vinyl copy....


Underrated, I'll say PARTY!.  For a "stopgap" album, I think it's a great concept, and a fun listen.  An album you don't need to wait for the right time to listen to.  May even get you out of a bad mood!
A little bit of group interaction between songs, and it sounds like their really enjoying it.  And probably were, next to the work they were doing on PET SOUNDS. 

Underrated - Surf's Up (by some people :)) and Party.
Overrated - MIU (as it is by some, but not by me!)

I agree with some of the posts here: "Love You" and "Surf's Up" are overrated. A handful of good songs and overall great production on the SU album can't save these releases for me. "Surf's Up" in particular should have been a much stronger album, especially considering the quality of the songs that didn't make the cut.

Underrated? For me, it's "Carl & The Passions: So Tough" I hated this record when I first heard it (in 1976), but upon returning to it about seven years ago, I found that I like virtually every track.

This might anger a lot of people. But I have listened to Pet Sounds so much, that I don't really like it anymore. I still think its a great album, but I listen to other stuff now.

You can probably tell by my name that I am a huge fan of Mt Vernon and Fairway. I consider that to be a part of the Holland album in a way. Holland, I think, is one of their best albums.

Hi guys, my first reply on this board.

Most overrated:  Love You.  It has a quirky charm about it, but ultimately it's the work of a very ill man being forced to do something he really didn't want to do and it shows.

Most Underrated.  The Beach Boys (1985).  The production may be a bit sterile at times, but I think this album has the band making solid, comtemporary music with a minumum of weak or embarrassing moments (i.e., no "Johnny Carson" or Tree songs) to make you ask, "What were they thinking?"

Overrated: Sunflower. I know it is a favorite of many people, but to me it is a better example of excellent engineering and production than anything else. There are a few songs I love (This Whole World is among my 5-10 favorite BB songs ever), but plenty I don't much care for. It is one of the first albums where I believe there were better available, recorded songs they could've used and improved the album.

Underrated: Surf's Up. I like several of the songs many fans don't (DGNtW, Feet, Tree). The only one I don't like is SDT, and I don't even dislike that track--I just hate that siren and the lyrics.

Most overrated: LOVE YOU

Most underrated: Too many to choose from!  I'll say that the albums that most deserved to be hits but weren't are WILD HONEY, FRIENDS, and SUNFLOWER.

Most Overrated - Sunflower
The first 3-4 songs blow me away. Tremendous. Then it sinks into mediocrity for a couple of songs, makes a comeback with "All I Wanna Do" and "Forever", and ends slightly boringly (is that a word?). Other than the water chant, "Cool Cool Water" doesn't excite me. How many songs (or minutes) of songwriting did Brian Wilson contribute to this album? "Deidre" - OK, "It's About Time" - forced, "Tears In The Morning" - OK, "Our Sweet Love" - recycled, "At My Window"- only the ending redeems it. Don't misunderstand me, it's not a bad album, it's probably a good album. But a classic, no.

Most Underrated - Today
Second best album only to Pet Sounds, but this album rarely appears on "all-time" greatest albums lists. Brian was operating an extremely high level on this album. Every song is good, most are great. Fast songs, slow songs, fun songs, tear jerkers, complex arrangements, good cover versions - this album has it all. How many hits came from this album - 3,4,5? With the possible - and I stress possible - exception of "In The Back Of My Mind", there is not one bit of slippage, and a different lead vocal might've rectified that. If - and the only if - if you could take out Bullshit With Big Daddy and replace it with "Guess I'm Dumb", oh my...

Most overrated: "Friends" (besides the first 2 songs nothing that blows me away) and "Party" (I am not really interested about a fake party album with covers only).

Most underrated: "Keepin' The Summer Alive",  which has some wonderful love songs - "Goin' On", "Livin' With A Heartache" and "Oh, Darlin'" - and the others are powerful or have a nice melodie. "Carl And The Passions" has some really nice tunes, I only dislike "Here She Comes".

Oh my gosh, I never thought I'd see the day when someone else said that. I'm not alone after all!

P.S., you're fired from Beach Boys fandom. Pack up your things and get out of here by 5:00.

 ;)

Underrated:

1. LA Light Album...my 2nd favorite of all time, right behind Friends.  The background vocals on every track (except Goin' South, which doesn't have any) are beautiful.  The lead vocals on each track are pretty solid, and you get 2 1/2 lead vocals from Dennis, which were his last officially released ones.  Every song is a gem in its own way, and even the weakest track "Shortenin' Bread" is cool in its own little quirky way.  And yes, I love HCTN!

2. Friends...my favorite album.  It's appreciated by fans a little bit more than LA, but I still think that it is a pretty much unnoticed gem that sits on CD racks unused for too long.  This album takes me away for 30 minutes and leaves me, and I'm sure other listeners as well, at peace.

3. Carl & The Passions-So Tough...definitely underappreciated.  This album was my first glimpse into the post-Surf's Up, pre-15 Big Ones Beach Boys, and I felt like a whole new world was opened up to me in terms of my fandom.  Every song is a keeper, and each track is like a well-kept secret, hidden from 99.9% of the world.

4. Summer In Paradise...yeah, the drum machines are a little annoying to some, and the lyrics are very trite and cliche at times.  But it's a very enjoyable listen, at least to these ears.  "Summer Of Love" is a cheesefest, but it never fails to put a smile on my face because it's so funny.  Other tracks like "Hot Fun In The Summertime", "Still Surfin", and "Island Fever" are much-played classics at my house.

Overrated:

1. Holland...there are some really great songs on here, but the songs don't mesh well together.  The structure of the album seems really disjointed and awkward.  Perhaps the three-part California Saga would have been better at the end of side 2, and maybe another song could have been added to the lineup (9 is kind of a weird number).  "Funky Pretty" was much better live.

2. Endless Summer...not so much overrated by serious fans, but really by the general public.  A more responsible compilation would have included a second disc with later tracks (which probably would have been impossible considering the different record labels).

3. 15 Big Ones...I know that many people don't like this album, but even with the few fans that it has, I still think it's overrated.

Eric actually the California Saga does come at the end of side one. The vinyl version may be more to you liking because it flows better with the Fairytale seperate from the LP. Love these opinions, glad everyone is being respectful. I have come to realize that every album will have people who love them as well as those who dislike them.

I took a chance mentioning Sunflower as overrated, but I didn't have the guts to stand up for my most UNDERrated - 15 Big Ones!

Overrated- Brian Wilson's Smile-sorry the Smile stuff just never did it for me, outside of Surfs Up, Wonderful, Heroes,. (Please don't hit me)

Underrated- wow this one is tough cause with knowledgable fans, its hard to get an underrated album.  I am gonna say 85 or Still Crusin..if Still Crusin had been finished...easily their best work in a LONG time. Great vocals...lots of lead sharing. and 85 as well. Carl and Al make these albums worth it

You might want to double-check Eric's post--he said maybe California Saga would have been better at the end of side two.

I've always thought 'Surfs Up' was over-rated. I LOVE a few tracks (Til I Die being my favorite), but overall...it's just not my cup of tea. Some of the album just seems forced to me...and some of the tracks are well...just mediocre, IMO.

As far as under-rated...I'm going with '20/20'. Sure, it seems to be just kind of 'thrown together'...SMiLE remnants, etc...but there really are some hidden gems on there. I'm pretty sure that very few people will agree with me...but I just love that album. My second place for 'under-rated' is 'Carl and the Passions'.

Overrated: Sunflower. I have never understood the adulation for this one. There's not a single melody on there that is memorable to me, nor the lyrics. The backing tracks are "nice."

Underrated: Summer Days!!  All the pre-PS praise is usually heaped on Today, but I find this one to be superior, in terms of production, and it's the one I turn to most often. It has the better Rhonda/Ronda and no Bull Session with Big Daddy! Let Him Run Wild trumps everything.

I think the sound of both the drums and the bass on Wild Honey are incredible, and quite underappreciated.

Oops sorry

I don't think I've ever read a good account of the Still Crusin' project.  Had they initially  planned on it being a full album of new material?


Surf's Up is a popular one in this thread, one way or the other!

Agreed. Summer Days is easily one of the freshest sounding records ever, by anyone. As a cohesive album experience, it's totally underappreciated by most people.

i remember reading an article, i believe it was in goldmine, with al who said something along the lines of they have to have 3 hit singles off the lp. the deal was for 3 singles. and if they sold well maybe capitol would sign them to a contract. something along those lines. of course, not sure if al really meant 3 or was kinda kidding. but he implied that if they sold singles well a contract once again with capitol would happen. i have that article somewhere in the house, i will try to locate it again.

Hmmm......interesting hoop to make them jump through.  Good ol' Capitol, always doin' right by the boys.

Thanks for the info, Steve.

Overrated: I agree concerning Sunflower. I could do without At My Window, It's about Time, Tears in the Morning, Cool Cool Water (just drags on...I like the shorter box set version). But the strong tracks DO shine. Just not a "masterpiece" or another Pet Sounds as it is described often. 

Underrated: late 70's output. MIU/L.A. twofer has plenty of good music to enjoy. I will defend Matchpoint until I die. Please just forget the lyrics, as that seems to be the argument against it (even though I think they are not that bad, its about losing love for Christ's sake, albeit with tennis metaphors.) The melody is great. period. Plus the part, "no one, could ever...how could love slip away from me??" ....is great. Same with Tomboy. Listen to that melody...great. Plus that music box/child like sound/ change over into the Hey Little Hey Little Hey Little TOMBOY part at the end.....and  the outro. I love it. Let me ask you this: if the lyrics were different, would fans dismiss it? Something  to think about.   So many tracks from this era...hmmm My Diane still floors me. Love it. One of Brian's absolute from the heart best. So dark and heavy. L.A. great stuff on there too. Good timin of course. I just like those two albums back to back. Lots of nice ballads.  I love Goin' South, Full Sail.  I think I find these two refreshing after the rough and gruffness of 15 big ones/Love You.
So yeah, it generally annoys me when people slag off these late 70's albums. There are treasures there to be found. Hence, UNDERRATTED!!! But each to their own.

Overrated: Pet Sounds
Yes, you read that correctly. It's a highly influential album, I don't deny that. Has some great songs on it, but I've never understood why it gets put on a pedestal. An album worthy of consideration? Sure. Greatest album of all time? No way, imho -- I don't even think it's the best BB album. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me here.

Overrated: Love You
LY still sounds like the guys are slacking off to me. I heard them do much better versions of songs from LY live in concert before the album came out, and that spoiled me. I was disappointed, the album didn't live up to the live versions.


Underrated: Keepin' the Summer Alive
Some people hear a formula album. I hear an enjoyable album, with agreeable melodies and even some outstanding tracks (KTSA, Goin' On). Carl Wilson rocks!

Underrated: Beach Boys '85
Carl's singing is outstanding on this one.


Rated just right: Sunflower and Surf's Up
I love these two albums! This is my favorite period of BB music, when Dennis and Carl started emerging as writers.

Which album(s) - Beach Boys or non-Beach Boys - do you think are better than Pet Sounds?

how is Our Sweet Love recycled?

From reading about the recording of Sunflower, it appeared that the Beach Boys were really trying. And that was a good thing. But remember, the album was rejected by Warner Brothers. There was adding some songs and removing some songs. The guys were trying to get Brian involved, though I'm skeptical just how much he contributed to the album as a songwriter. How many lead vocals did Brian contribute? Anyway, the one song on the album that sounds "manufactured" to me, maybe to sound like a good-old Beach Boys' song is "Our Sweet Love". Don't misunderstand me, I like the song, and it's well done. But - to me - it sounds like they put "God Only Knows", "Wake The World", and maybe "Time To Get Alone" into Brian's blender, and came up with "Our Sweet Love". Again, I DO like the song - a lot.

My definition of "recycled" would probably be a song that is more directly derivative of, maybe even quoting, other songs. I agree that Our Sweet Love sounds like a Brian Wilson song, but there are dozens of BW songs where you could say that: be they for quarter note block chords on keyboards, descending bass lines, reverb-drenched auxiliary percussion or whatever other feature.

Luther, being a non-musician, I can't comment on the musical terms you referred to, though I actually think I know what you mean by them!

So, as a BB fan/listener I will simply say that "Our Sweet Love" sounds like a re-write of "God Only Knows". :police:

Too many to list here -- I mean that seriously. Pet Sounds ranks somewhere in the middle-ground for me.

Fair enough, officer. Sorry, sir. (That policeman's cap freaked me out.)

When I spoke to Brian once we talked about Sunflower and he said basically that everyone was getting along and working well together. He said he was "Very" involved with it. He sang on nearly every song, he wrote seven of them, he co-produced much of it. Carl may have compiled the final mixes but remember Brian can not hear stereo so as most of us know he couldn't do a stereo mix all by himself and never has. He was still a dynamic songwriter, singer, and producer here. It's been debated back and forth, but to me Sunflower was the last time he really wanted to be a part of the group if not in charge of it. My opinion is that the use of Surf's Up in 1971 was the last straw as far as he was concerned. It was then (not after Smile) when the real disinterest manifested itself.

Pet Sounds was probably next on my little list of overrated albums.  A great achievement, yes, but not everyone connects with it; it's not immediately accessible to many.  Pet Sounds would probably make my top 20 Beach Boys albums list, but it would be in the lower half, even though it contains my favorite song (GOK).

Albums I like better? Friends, CATP, LA, In Concert, OCA, POB, 20/20, Sunflower, BWPS, Love You, and to a lesser degree: Live In London, Summer Days, SIP, Surfer Girl...

Wow I really still like Pet Sounds but do you all think you may not like it as much because there have been to many reissues and too much focuss on it?

Over-rated - SMiLE. I just thought of this one as being really over-rated (in my opinion). I am referring to BWPS and NOT The Beach Boys version. Firstly because compare Brians lead vocals on that to say the Brian vocal on the Surf's Up version off the box set. Obviously its not his fault. With age and obviously with the use of various drugs etc.. Brian's voice is of course not going to be as good. But that doesnt make it sound any better. Don't get me wrong I admire Brian for releasing this album after all the bad memories etc... But I just dont think the BWPS did the original version justice. Im not saying its a bad album just I think it is overrated.

I do however really love the live concert from the DVD. THAT for me is way more impressive than the CD version. I just think that the Beach Boys version was/is so far ahead of what Brian and his new band have completed. I just think the Beach Boys blend no doubt has something to do with it. Just listen to The Beach Boys version of Our Prayer compared to BWPS version of Our Prayer. The Beach Boys vocals just seem to lock in to each other and all work off each other somehow. It is a pretty indescribable feeling when you hear them at the peak of their powers. But also the producing abilities of a young Brian Wilson at his peak, brilliant studio musicians who have that something special in the way that they play, as well as brilliant and shared lead vocals (ie: Carl on some songs, Brian on some songs, Mike on some songs etc...) which just gives it some variety and of course some members of the band suited particular songs better whereas an older Brian doing every song just gets a bit boring. I also just think the instrumental tracks for BWPS are nowhere near the original versions. Please dont criticise me for saying these things.. Im not saying BWPS isnt good Im just saying it is by no means great in my opinion whereas by the segments and songs that have been released from the original SMiLE, The Beach Boys version most likely would have been considered great.

By the way Im surprised that people say that Pet Sounds is over-rated. While yes I think it is over-rated by some. But I think it is still one of the all time great albums. I dont think you can say that it IS the greatest album (its all so opinionated). Just take a look at the songs on the album. They are brilliant. Its not just WIBN, GOK and SJB or something there is some GREAT tracks on there: I Just Wasnt Made For These Times, You Still Believe In Me, Caroline No, Lets Go Away For Awhile (a brilliant song- one of my favourites), I Know Theres An Answer, Dont Talk.. I mean how can you not say that these (as well as the others) arent all GREAT songs?

I don't think Pet Sounds is 'over-rated'....just 'over-reissued'. I could do without all those reissues, seriously. It makes me get sick of it after a while, and that's something that just shouldn't be done. Nobody should have to get sick of Pet Sounds.

BWPS is not over-rated.....it is imo one of the most important events in the world of pop music whose impact is yet to be known. If one compares it to the original recordings then it can sound not up to par, obviously. HOWEVER, look at the way the songs have been molded together, the stellar collaborating with Van Dyke Parks on Blue Hawaii and On a Holiday, and the very clever maneuvering of Brian and Jeffrey's vocals throughout. These are just a few highlights on this album....

I personally feel VERY blessed everytime I hear this album. I also feel good knowing I can always go back to the Beach Boys versions to hear them in their original form. To have both is just such an awesome GIFT FROM GOD.

To make a long story short, BWPS is my favorite album.......!!!

Most Overrated would have to be .....I haven't made up my mind yet.
Most underrated is.....Smiley Smile....

Pet Sounds is not overrated. I get pissed when I hear people say "Pet Sounds is the Shiznit...Pet Sounds is the greatest album ever..." yet they can't even name one other Beach Boys album. I find myself listening to their other stuff lots more...so PS can sometimes feel inaccessible to me. However, just listening to the arrangements, wrecking crew, instrumentations, song structures, yadayadayada,.....it is the greatest album ever (besides BWPS)!!>...............no one else writes like that nowadays.......

I totally agree that those are all great songs...every one is a keeper, just like 99% of the catalog for me.  But I still think that it's a little overrated by fans.

Pet Sounds was my introduction to the studio albums (before  I'd listened to dad's copies of Endless Summer, Live In London and Best of...Vol 1 - where I was upended by "Kiss Me, Baby", which is what really started it all).  And while based on it's reputation seems like the logical first place to go, it coincided with the progression from junior high to high school, and all the growing pains that involves.  Add a not-quite-resolved crush or two, and I obsessed over that album for a few years, to the point where I remember answering exam questions with lyrics from that album! (No, I never spent time in a straightjacket.)  Thankfully, as time wore on and those sessions sets (official and unofficial) were made available I got even more of a love and appreciation for the music and it's genesis.  I'm sure a little music journalism here and there egged on the interest, and maybe nostagia plays a role in my feelings for the album, but I keep going back to it.  Nothing can top it for me.  I'm riveted every time I listen to that music. 

That said, I'm not as into "I Know There's An Answer" as I used to be!

It does seem unfortunate that  for anyone with a casual interest in the band, it's "reputation" puts all of their other albums in it's shadow.  And while I wonder how much of a role that plays in a fan's assessment of the album,  in the end one person's PET SOUNDS is another person's HOLLAND!

Perhaps part of people's opinion of Pet Sounds as being overrated comes from what long-time and knowledgeable fans most people here are. While I don't find the album to be overrated--especially among non-fanatics, many of whom STILL don't know the album--I do tend to take it for granted, sometimes for months at a time. By this, I mean when thinking of favorite songs/albums, I'll look to those I haven't so completely absorbed, and maybe OVER-rate others in its place. Then, somewhere down the line, I'll put it back in and just go...OH YEAH. THIS is why it's so great...

Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know if I've recalled reading anyone say it is overrated along these lines: "You know, Pet Sounds just isn't very good..."

I agree with the comments concerning Pet Sounds. It is not overrated. What an absurd thing to say.  The tracks are brilliant.  Like Luther said, when I put it on from time to time ( I don't listen to it everyday) I am blown away. Maybe I should write my comments concerning the album fresh after listening late at night, after a few beer  when I am in the moment and think "Gosh Darn, this is amazing."  When I think about God Only Knows, I think "what other band comes close to WRITING such a magnificent song. It really is beautiful Truly amazing. I find I can listen to the backing tracks off of Pet Sounds and also be moved. It is true what Jardine said: that bridge to WIBN is simply amazing. And yes, I choke up. I think it is my favorite piece of Brian's music...that bridge. Caroline No overrated? no way man. no way. What a song. Anyways, I am not going to ramble about Pet sounds cause I could fill a book. Just chiming in to say I agree with the comments: not overrated.   Also, I strongly believe there IS a vibration to Pet Sounds. Brian said " I am going to make the best album ever" and it is a truly inspired album and many feel that.

I think that the songs mesh on Holland much better then So Tough IMO

Again, to reiterate, I am not denying that the tracks are brilliant.  Every song on Pet Sounds is great, and I mean that sincerely!  It is this type of comment, though, that makes it overrated for me.  For every fan that doesn't rank Pet Sounds in their top ten, there are 20 who think that it is absolutely absurd that someone would do that and still call themselves a fan.  Some fans make it out to be obligatory for fanhood to bow down to Pet Sounds and put it above all other albums.

Is it a unique piece of music history?  Yes.  A masterpiece?  Probably, yes.  Is it mandatory to glorify it above all other Beach Boys albums because of that?  Absolutely not.

BTW, MarkCharles, although I quoted your comment, I am not attacking you personally.  I just thought it was a good example of why I feel the way I do about PS being overrated.

I agree that side 2 of CATP doesn't really mesh, either.  But for whatever reason, it doesn't impact the listening experience for me like it does for Holland...

OVER-RATED: 'Love You', some nice tunes - but hey, this is the guy who wrote 'Good Vibrations' and 'Til I Die' remember? I think people, Brian included, rate it so highly out of sheer relief that it was a sign Brian could still write/produce after 15 Big Ones had so spectuarly failed to demostrate he could do either.. But compared to even the likes of 'Carl & The Passions' it's all very sub-standard. (Love 'Johnny Carson', Night Was So Young' and the melody (if not the lyrics) of 'Roller Skating Child' though..) Also 'Sunflower', though magnificent, is frustrating because it could've been so much better. No 'San Miguel'? No 'Lady'? No 'Breakaway'? But 'Tears In The Morning' makes the cut..!! What were they thinking??

UNDER-RATED: 'L.A. Light Album' has an awful reputation, but it contains at least two stone-cold classics in 'Good Timin' and 'Baby Blue', a few hidden gems such as 'Full Sail' and the utterly mad 'Shortenin' Bread'. Unfortunately that awful disco song just seems to cloud  over this however.. Also, 'WILD HONEY' is very under-rated. The songs are just great! 'Wild Honey', 'Here Comes The NIght', Country Air' - yet read David Leaf's endlessly apologetic comments in the two-fer booklet and you'd think it was about as sophicated an album as 'Surfin' Safari'. Oh yeh, and 'Holland' is a masterpiece! And 'Shut Down Volume 2' kicks ass!!

So Sunflower is overrated, and Shut Down 2 is underrated.

Wow.

What happened to 'people expressing there personal opinions'..? Go back and read the original message. I'm not saying Sunflower is better than Shut Down 2, obviously it isn't.. But yeh, Sunflower could've been a lot better, so to me, when people talk about it being up there with Pet Sounds, i disagree. Great album, but also a missed opportunity.. And 'Shut Down Part 2' contains: Fun fun fun, don't worry baby, in the parkin' lot, warmth of the sun, keep an eye on summer etc. It's often dismissed amongst there early albums as a rush-job, but personally i like it more than any other BB album leading up to 'Today'. It's constantly written-off, but it's got a least five or six classics on it! Urgo, yes mate, 'Shut Down 2' is underrated.

People can't express "there" personal opinions,but they can certainly express "their" personal opinions.  Don't get so pissy, mate. I was saying "wow" because you're the one of the few people who'd put Sunflower in the overrated category. I think you'd have more people who'd agree with you putting Surf's Up in that category as opposed to Sunflower. But hey, to each his/her own.

Oh Sorry, 'their' favourite albums.. It's late at night, i'm doing a crap late shift, pardon me if my grammer isn't 100%. What a cheap shot! Anyway, as i say i like 'Sunflower' a lot. I'd put All I Wanna Do, Forever, and Slip On Through in my top 20 BB tracks if i were ever to sit down and compile a list. But i can't be arsed doing that. But if i did, they'd be there.. But as often with the BBs they left off some great tracks, and 'their' absense just annoys me. I mean, missing off 'Lady' is just plain stupid.. Some of the tracks were very cheesy, mainly Bruce's, and i think with a better line-up the album might've performed better than it. I know 'Surf's Up' is flawed in exactly the same way ('Take a Load..' in place of 4th Of July???), but as u pointed out a lot of people are gonna pick 'Surf's Up' so i thought i'd highlight that Sunflower suffers from the same problem.

overrated- Surfer Girl....I was a younger fan, so the car/surfin songs were good, but came out before my time, I appreciated and listened to their later music more.

underrated-Sunflower....every song on that album is a gem, it's a shame it didn't get the recognition that it should have.