The Smiley Smile Message Board

Is there anywhere that you can hear the Dennis Wilson song "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again"? Like is it circulating out there? Thanks :)

The only place you'll hear the song (as opposed to the original recording) is on Adam Marsland's Chaos Band's excellent live CD featuring the songs of Carl & Dennis Wilson. The actual BB recording hasn't been booted.

Thanks Andrew :), I think I will have to buy that album down the track (when i have time and money). That means that Adam Marsland etc. must have heard it.. i wonder what the original song is like, I cant believe some of the stuff that hasnt been released hasnt been released, if that makes sense.

Well, Alan Boyd definitely heard it (and has performed it solo before at one Beach Boys convention). I suspect he played the original tape for Adam when they were mulling over songs to perform on the "The Songs Of Carl & Dennis Wilson" tour.

And, once again, the original track was going to be issued as a bonus track on the proposed DVD-A release of the "Surf's Up" album before that project was dropped.

 :smash

That's sad...I think I'd give up half of all my cds and records just to hear that one song. Oh, the humanity. All the wonderful songs still sitting away in the vaults, collecting dust.

The original BB version of "Live Again" is easily one of the best three unreleased BB tracks I've ever heard - it is just staggeringly magnificent. You wouldn't believe Dennis could sing so sweetly, and the bvs... awesome. Not having this on Surf's Up was a major, major loss.

What are the other two?

I think Andre means 'Can't stop talking about American girls' and 'At the hop'

Best three yet-unreleased, or unreleased throughout what most people would consider the life of the band? For example, would the Smile versions of Wonderful, et al, count--things that came out on compilations after the fact?

Judging from the Alan Boyd live version, it sure is a totally gorgeous song and might be just as good as Forever. Why the Beach Boys didn't consider releasing some record with more than just eight or ten songs on it in the early seventies is completely beyond me, as there used to be quality material all over the place. Yet to the public, it must have seemed like they were suffering from a creative dry spell, which they ultimately did a few years later of course...

Better.

Is it possible that Dennis was saving it for a solo album?

Sure, when he had this row with Carl about Surf's Up line-up, he certainly had a solo album as a backup plan for his tracks. A 1971/72 solo album which never materialized... Maybe the question is, why did he offer 'Make It Good' and not WIBNTLA for C&tP?

But then we'd be talking about this gem of a track still sitting in the vaults, known as 'Make It Good'.  :)

When we did it, Alan let us hear a recording of it but we did not make dubs, for obvious reasons.

Our version on the album is faithful to the original with three exceptions:  we took out a long repetitive guitar solo section; we modulated the key for Evie's voice; and I added a "who ever said" response in the third verse, which came to me out of nowhere, in Dennis' 1971 voice no less, onstage in Chicago.  It was spooky, and I'm not prone to these kinds of superstitions, so we kept it in.  Otherwise, we were aware that it was the first chance BBs fans were going to get to hear it so we wanted to make it as true to the recording as possible.  The background vocal arrangement is almost identical...

Adam - Thanks for the info; I was wondering how close to the original your performance was. I love the coda especially - I imagine that fades out on the original, right?

My recollection -- and I don't have a copy of it myself to check -- was that it faded out.  The call and response parts are not exactly the same on ours (because we were all playing at the same time and got distracted), but it's close.  IIRC, Evie is singing Mike Love's part (the repeating bass line), and the high "yeahs" were Carl and Brian.

great info, thanks for sharing that with us.

Actually, now that I think of it, I don't know that there was a finished mater made that would have incorporated a fade out.  The implication was that it would have faded out, but what I heard probably just went on until everything fell apart.  I don't remember.  I do remember hearing two different mixes of the song.

The original track lasts for about 7 minutes, with most of the the band winding down and Charles Lloyd continuing jamming on his flute (s) til he just....kinda..... eventually.... stops.

Sounded like a fun session.

when will we get to hear the dennis version, alan?

As he is wont to do...

I hereby award you points for using one of my favorite words! Extra credit. A+!

Sometimes I just want to use wont.

I won't stop you.

There's got to be some way to eek this track out there.
Couldn't Linnet/Boyd and Company crank out some sort of 50th anniversary compilation and include it? ;D

Or is it tied up in some legal red tape?

The inclusion of "(WIBNT)LA" on a recent compilation was vetoed. No red tape, it was recorded as a BB track thus Brother hold the rights (well, right now Capitol). Had the DVD-A of Surf's Up come to pass, we'd have it by now.

I suppose I can wait for the 100th anniversary.  :-\

Any idea WTF Brother keep vetoing this stuff???!!??  Do they have some kind of adverse reaction to the notion of pleasing their hardcore fans and in the process making a buck or two?

"Hmmmmmmmmmm shall we release this 40 year Dennis Wilson masterpiece in the wake of the POB success?"

"No lets just stick out "Barbara Ann", "Fun,Fun,Fun" etc for the 53rd millionth time!  

MEMO TO BRI :  SOONER OR LATER THIS AND OTHER UNRELEASED TRACKS WILL LEAK OUT. WHEN THEY DO PEOPLE WILL HAVE NO QUALMS IN OBTAINING THEM VIA BOOTS IF YOU HAVN'T OFFICALLY RELEASED THEM!!  :P

Did I say BRI dealt the veto ?  No, I don't think I did, and for a very good reason - they didn't. BRI consists of four voting members: Brian, Mike, Alan and Carl's estate.

It's been a long day and I'm getting my corporate acronyms muddled up!! The point remains that the owners of this music seem content to let it gather dust on a shelf somewhere instead of sharing it with the fans.

OK, who vetoed it AGD?

 Everybody "in the know" on this board loves to drop hints about inside info but never "talks the talk".  "David and Mike have fallen out" is another people are hinting around about alot recently.

So for all you that like to drop vague hints, put up or shut up please.

Nothing personal SurfRider, but one of the things I've learned in life is that telling a large group of people something that you were told in confidence is not a good idea. IMO it's a sign of good character to keep something private...private.

That said, I do believe that the compilation WIBNTLA was vetoed from was "Warmth of the Sun"...and what did we get instead...yep "Forever" again  >:(

Hey man, the reason these folks have inside info is because they don't blab every last detail to random folks on a message board. I'm sure they would be happy to spill the beans if it didn't mean losing that source for future tid-bits, so you might want to pull back on the self-righteous indignation trip and think about how real people must interact with other real people, not just fans scraping around for any news on their obsession (not that I wouldn't like to know more myself!!).

One, I'd hardly call saying "David & Mike have fallen out" a vague hint, more a flat statement of fact. David's wife Carrie has stated it to be so on this and other MBs, so I feel quite safe in repeating it.

As for the other stuff... can't speak for anyone else, but sometimes I hear things which I'm told I can comment on generally but not relate any specifics. I'm sure others are in the same boat, just as they are when I'm told something in strict confidence. 'Course, to keep you happy, I could spill, but then two things would happen:

1 - all my sources would vanish like ice in the sun...

2 - my reputation (such as it is) would be so low you'd need a spade to find it.

But, OK, just to please your selfish demand (others seem to have no problem, I've noticed), in future, I'll refrain from commenting on anything I can't be wholly open about... which means I probably won't be around here quite so much. Satisfied ?

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Had the DVD-A of Surf's Up come to pass, we'd have it by now.
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Hmm...maybe. I believe that when the Beach Boys' organisation realized that they didn't have 100% of the publishing, the song was scratched.

Hmm...maybe. I believe that when the Beach Boys' organisation realized that they didn't have 100% of the publishing, the song was scratched.
[/quote]

Nope - the Surf's Up DVD-A was shelved because the format never really took off.

I know I've been beating around the bush (in more ways than one) with my vague hints, so I'll just come out and say what Brian Wilson told me. He really does have six toes on his left foot and that's why he's a genius. OK?!? SATISFIED?!?

I also heard through the grapevine that the Academy Awards are political, the government really doesn't care about you, God is dead, that Sarah Palin is an experiment in artificial stupidity, and that you complaining about people dropping hints about their inside info isn't going to make a difference to them and certainly won't convince them to share their inside info with the likes of you.

People with the inside info are people who have the ability to keep their mouths shut about it. Don't hate them because they're not gossip queens like you. And just remember that most of the inside info you so desperately want to know could in many cases color your feelings on the Beach Boys. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Let's keep it that way. It certainly hasn't done this board any harm, now has it?

How close did the DVD-A come to being released?

The 5.1 remix was finished. Live Again was confirmed as a bonus track. Supposedly it was just waiting for pressing.

If it wasn't for ignorance, this board probably wouldn't exist!

Michael Love popped a pimple for humanity's sins. Amen.

I come to a BB message board to try and escape from the real world, it's a place where I can relax and talk about one of my favorite bands and composers. Therefore I am begging you and everyone never to mention this person on this message board again. Please try and maintain dignity.

And I thought the "God is dead" comment was more offensive...:)

I have not heard Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again done by anybody. I'm very curios about why it seems to be the most talked about unreleased Beach Boys recording.

Because it is just majestically outstanding. Very possibly the best unreleased BB track there is. Seriously. Dennis at the very top of his form and vocal ability, his brothers doing some stellar bvs... just amazing.

Go here - http://www.amazon.com/Long-Promised-Road-Dennis-Wilson/dp/B000NJWTH0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273650056&sr=1-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Long-Promised-Road-Dennis-Wilson/dp/B000NJWTH0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1273650056&sr=1-2) - for a 30-second clip of Adam Marsland's Chaos Band's outstanding cover - lead vocal Evie Sands. Buy the CD while you're at it, it's seriously excellent.

You always know a nerve has been struck with AGD when he threatens to pack up his wagon and walk away.  Stiff upper lip man!

This practice of "hinting" of inside info, wetting everyones' whistle but claiming confidentiality is just poor form.  Seems like more of an ego trip. "Hey, I'm a bigwhig insider.  I'm in the know but you all aren't".

Seriously, what in the world is the BIG,  CONFIDENTIAL SECRET about why this song didn't get released.  You say the BRI members didn't nix it.  So who you gonna offend by offering up the story.

As to the David/Mark thing AGD, it was hinted by ESQ that it was a "misunderstanding, now fixed".

Bottom line - sorry I offended you "Insiders".  bowing

No no no... you get used to it eventually -  it used to irk me but no longer -  i just regard it as a playful tease these days and, to be honest, my life isn't any poorer for not knowing everything that AGD and others know, and I'm grateful for the occasional shared gems they send our way.

If they one day withhold information that means I can't get out of bed in a morning, that deprives my daughter of food, or that results in pools of blood on the landing, I'll be jolly upset.

But this is the world of entertainment.

Be entertained! Have fun!

Read again - I never said that. Someone said that BRI vetoed it, I just pointed out that BRI consists of four voting members. I'm not saying who laid down their veto for one of two pretty obvious reasons:

1 - I don't know

2 - I've been asked not to.

Go figure which is more likely (and I'm slightly surprised no-one has jumped to the usual conclusion in these matters - impressed, but surprised).


My understanding is the situation remains unresolved, but as ever I stand to be corrected. Ask Carrie, she's in and out of here.  :)

One thing I'd like to make crystal clear - I don't regard myself in any way as 'an insider'. To my mind that would be someone like David Leaf was: someone in the next circle out from the band. I just happen, over the course of some 35 years, to have accquired contacts (as a lot of us have), some of which have led on to other contacts slightly deeper in the labyrinth that is the World of Wilson. And so on. It just happened, wasn't my gameplan, ever. Sometimes - like now - I almost wish it hadn't. If someone wishes to label me an insider, or an expert, or eminence grise, well, that's flattering but I don't take it seriously. I'm just a fan with an inquiring nature, a stupidly retentive memory for trivia and ephemera, a burning desire to see the bands legacy documented accurately, and a laptop. That's a dangerous combination.  ;D

I guess this means you're sticking around, your eminence!

 ;D ;D ;D

Never said I was leaving, just that, to appease one evidently jealous individual (of what, God only knows...), I'll only comment on subjects I can be wholly open about.  ;D

This has nothing to do specifically with WIBNTLA, but a general BRI question. Since there are 4 voting members, what happens when there is a 2-2 tie?
Does someone else break the tie? Or does a tie mean a no?

for the record, speaking as a lowly lurker, i appreciate the little nibs of info, say what you can, and say no more, I'm sure I'd love the info, but if you can't then you can't...  But something is better than nothing, and it is certainly appreciated... 

Frankly, it's not insanely difficult to come by a few drips and drabs of inside information if you stick around long enough and chat with various band members. It happens. (AGD is on a different level, given his longtime fandom and contacts.)

But generally, these kinds of things are interesting but not earth-shaking. I mean, David and Mike has a falling out. Does it really matter that we know it's because David wore stripes one day and Mike really hates stripes? At least in my experience, and the few "behind-the-scenes" things I've heard, none of them make much of a difference to the music or are terrifically unexpected for the group of personalities we've been following.

These people have sold their private lives to the public (BW esp.) for decades. The stuff we don't know is a little darker, a little stranger, perhaps, but so is most of the stuff we don't know in the world as a whole. And if folks have been asked not to tell specifics -- respect it. Make up your own. They're probably more interesting. :-D

OK... but iffn you can work "grise" into a post and make sense... oh, you can have my Capitol 2580 mono test pressing.  ::)

Excellent question. It would be interesting to know if, when Dennis' estate sold his BRI share back to BRI, his vote was de-activated, or if someone - say, Elliott Lott - could use it as a tie-breaker.

Mr Wilson's wife is an eminence grise when it comes to matters of management and tour decisions. Allegedly.

Aahhhhh, so close - but you blew it with the 'allegedly'. Now, had you said 'undoubtedly'...  ;D

Back to topic:

If the Adam Marsland band version is as close to the official BB recording as we'll get, then I can't believe it still hasn't seen the light of day. Especially when you consider how many stuff from the BB vaults has been issued in the past 20 or so years.
As Andrew said, perhaps the best unreleased song the Beach Boys have to offer... and he definitely knows what he's talking about!

It's especially unfortunate that it was left off of "Surf's Up" because, as it turned out, Dennis was rendered completely absent from that album. If only we had "WIBNTLA" in addition to "4th of July", we could all compile our own little CD-Rs of the Surf's Up album containing Dennis' contributions.

Thanks for the link.  :) There are videos on YouTube of Adam Marsland's Chaos Band performing River Song, and Angel Come Home, and I was very impressed by both. River Song may have been just a tad to fast, but still the best cover of the song I have heard.

As one who undoubtedly knows the meaning of the word "eminence", I ask you...just what in the hell is an "Eminence Front"?  ;D Seriously, that song has confused me since I was about 9 years old.  ;D

Wasn't left off - it was pulled, along with the (then-unfinished) "4th of July" after Carl & Dennis had a spat about the sequencing of side 2.

Has anybody who frequents this board ever been in a position to sample this "aborted project"? I was just curios how it would have sounded.

Very well put AGD!   Jealous?  Hardly!  I got all that journalistic crap out of my system writing for the school paper in High School.

But as a not very talented musician and songwriter, I do have  jealousy/envy for some guys named Brian, Dennis, Carl, Bruce, Alan, David, Mike, Blonde and Ricky.

I guess my real frustration is that, after reading the stomach turning tales in books like "Heroes and Villains", we are left with small trivia like why "WIBNTLA" has never been released as a confidential secret.  Seriously, it's 50 years, the ride is about over - it's time to open up the closet door and have a good rummage for old times sake.

Well, I feel fairly comfortable about spilling what I know about why WIBNTLA wasn't released, because my recollection on what I was told is hazy, so I could have it completely wrong.  So no one can hang me!  But my IMPRESSION at the time was that the problem is, simply, since Dennis is dead and his shares in Brother have been sold, there's no advocate for his material when it comes time to make selections about what to release.  Which, artistic merits aside, is understandable.  If I'm, for example, Mike Love, why am I going to go to bat for one of Dennis' songs when I can get one of mine on?  You can imagine being in a room with 4 or 5 people who all have their own agenda and compromises to make.  The person that isn't represented in that kind of a meeting is going to be the easiest one to throw out the window when tough decisions need to be made.  I'm not saying I know that's what happened; but it makes perfect sense if you think about the sausage-making that goes into getting approval from a bunch of different people for a project.

There WAS enough momentum behind the song coming out for us to get a quiet OK to release it ourselves, and I've never heard anybody complaining about it, so I don't think there's any kind of a grand conspiracy to prevent its release, though I wasn't personally involved in getting the publishing clearances and things like that.  It would NEVER have happened without Alan Boyd acting as go-between between us and the band, so you can all thank Alan Boyd that there's any released version of that song at all.  I may have nudged it a little because when we were listening to the raw tapes it was one of the better performances, and being a BBs freak I wanted it out too.  It also helped that Stan Shapiro (the co-writer of the song) was a friend of the band's and really wanted the song heard.  It was one of those situations that just happened to line up the right way.  I'm actually really proud of the LONG PROMISED ROAD album because, despite some hairy bumps in the road in getting it made and released, in the end it was one of those few times that a Beach Boys-related project got released as envisioned without getting sidetracked or altered by political concerns.

And yes, we kept it as close as possible to the original version.  I've listed what we changed somewhere in this or some other thread about the song.

I only have one thing to add to that - buy Adam's album, it's a great tribute, performed by a great band.

If what you say is the reason adamghost it really is a shame that once again it all comes down to the money. Jeez how much more cash do these guys need? I'm not their accountants but I'm pretty certain Mike, Al, Bruce and Brian aren't exactly starving these days!

A few reasons why WIBNTLA should be released.

1 To further honor and celebrate the spirit and talent that was Dennis Wilson
2 To put right a stupid wrong made 40 years ago (admittedly it WAS Dennis's own dumbass decision)
3 Because all us Beach Boy fans can never get enough music from this great group!!!

Seriously IF a reunion does take place and a new album is recorded, we all know in our heart of hearts there's a strong probability it may suck but we are all still going to buy it anyway and stick it on the shelf with the others!
We will always want to hear more! If the day ever does come when I have officially heard every last scrap of music these guys have laid down over the years it will be a bittersweet one.

PS awesome performance adam!!  :rock

I'd just like to add to Adam's post - before the success of the reissue of Pacific Ocean Blue, there was no compelling commercial/marketing reason to release WIBNTLA.  In other words, adding a Dennis song wouldn't have made a BB compilation - sounds of summer, Summer Love Songs or whatever, sell any more copies (well except to fanatics like us, who would buy it anyway for unreleased/new stereo remixes).  That's changed now, as the release of Fallin' in Love shows, so maybe there is hope for a release of WIBNTLA in the future.

also, Rhino has started to release some "quad" 60's/70s albulm on CD, Chicago being the first.  Perhaps they would consider releasing the Surf's Up 5.1 DVD (with bonus tracks) if enough people email/write in to request it.

Great idea!
BRI have the rights of Surf's Up. They licensed it to Capitol Records, but they don't care about a release of the 5.1 mix.
But Rhino can make this, and they'll make it right: limited edition, superb package, etc...
If BRI can make a prtnership with Rhino, it would be great.
They made this before, releasing Live at Knebowrth with Eagle Records, the Hallmark compilation, etc...

... currently available in about 24,684 different editions, most of which were bundled with other artists' songs and given away with UK Sunday papers.

Hey I'd even stoop to buying the awful News of the World on a Sunday if they were giving out free comps with "Wouldn't it be Nice to Live Again" on it !!!!!! :lol

Rhino's not an indie anymore. It's part of the Warner Bros. conglomerate. Same company as Warners, Nonesuch, etc.

Shout Factory, on the other hand ...

Just to respond to a couple of posts above...and not speaking as an active participant in anything but just as a guy that's been a working musician for a long time and "around"...you have to remember that if you're on an inside of a band situation, you just don't see things the way fans do.  Fans have the luxury of idealizing the band experience and thinking that everything is a simple as just waving a wand and coming out with the objectively best outcome.

The real world isn't that simple...first off, any band that completely bends to a fan's wishes is going to starve, because fans' desires are contradictory and not reliable (this is one of the reason why I roll my eyes when people complain about politicans without considering how fickle the electorate itself is).  I can remember how many times I've rolled into some town and none of my fans bothered to show up because they had to work that night or some such.  There's a perfectly valid reason why Carl gave up on a new direction for the band, why the Beach Boys became a traveling jukebox, why the band is skeptical of the ability of the more progressive material to sell.  It's because they've been down that road before and got burnt.

You've also got real people in a band with real feelings.  Do I think Mike is one-tenth of the songwriter Dennis was?  Frankly, no I don't.  But Mike himself has understandable pride in his own work above and beyond the financial aspect and it's perfectly reasonable for Mike to want one of his songs on a comp instead of one of Dennis'.  I mean, look at the personal history the two guys have.  You or I can say what we want about what should or shouldn't happen, but put yourself in Mike's position for a second.  Why the heck is he going to throw Dennis a bone after all these years?  Yes, it would be gracious and the right artistic move to make.  But it's expecting a lot from the guy.  It's another case of us fans telling people in the band with their own lives and feelings in the desire what they "should" do based on our subjective opinion about what we want.

So, yeah, looked at from a fan's perspective, the fact that this song is unreleased is a crime, but it's not as simple as saying "this song is really good, why isn't it out?"  My personal feeling is that it'll come out at some point.  Probably most of this stuff will.  It looked impossible for BAMBU to come out 10 years ago, and yet it did.  Sometimes it's just a matter of timing and things lining up a certain way, and then it happens.

The Endless Harmony Sountrack and the Hawthorne C.A compilations gave us a bunch of Dennis rarities and as mentioned the Summer Love Songs compilation had  Fallin' In Love on it so I hope this means we will see WIBNTLA at some point. I also have Adam's version and it's quite wondeful, good job sir!

I'd also really like to hear Carry Me Home properly released but I don't know if there is proper finished version?

I'd say it's pretty finished.

Ohhh that makes it even more tantalizing, if I get to hear the finished versions of WIBNTLA and Carry me Home one day i'll die happy :)

maybe these songs will be on beachboyscentral.com soon.

"4th of July" was finished after it was pulled? Your site has it listed as being recorded on March 15, April 3, June 20 and sometime in July. When was it pulled and what was done on it by who after that?

I' d forgotten  about "carry me home" - surely a song that deserves a proper release by now

I phrased that badly - the version we know now is a 1992/3 construct from (if I recall correctly) the track master, a scratch vocal from Carl and a safety copy of the tag. There may be a finished master, but if so it remains undiscovered. Certainly, from evidence in Tom Nolan's 1971 Rolling Stone the lyric was unwritten until at least June 20.

Carls vocal on 4th Of July is only a guide vocal? It's one of my fave Carl performances, god that guys voice was wonderful.

Resurrecting this thread, any word from anyone who would know as to if we'll reasonably see WIBNTLA this year with the new box set or other material? I just don't want to get my hopes up, only to be crushed.

I'd say there's probably a fairly good chance of it appearing on the box set.

I'd say that if we don't see it this year, we never will.

That's just...unbelievably depressing. I really hope we see it...someone make it happen!

OK, I have a related question, on the aborted "Surf's Up" DVD-A version...was "Burlesque" going to be included?

And were there any other tracks slated for it besides "4th" and "WIBNTLA"?

No, and as far as I'm aware, no again.

Sheesh, I bet you were saying that in '67 about Worms!  ;D

 I'd love to have this song released in any context, but my preferred option would be a SURF'S UP reissue w/ "WIBNTLA", "4th of July" and maybe "Lady" as bonus tracks. The Dennis stuff would only enhance the critical standing of an album that is already considered a classic.

 My custom SURF'S UP often programs "4th of July" in between "Disney Girls" and "Student Demonstration Time", but sometimes it slots between "Lookin' At Tomorrow" and "A Day in the Life of a Tree." Obviously I have no idea where "Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again" would best fit.

It was intended as the final track after Til I Die.

Good point about the EH and Hathorne compilations. I am surprised how Dennis was able to get both Barbara and All Alone on one disc! If the same type of voting came down on another release such as these, I would hope WIBNTLA would have a good shot and getting released.

When talking about finnacial matters, on a CD that sold similar to that of either of these aforementioned releases, what type of dollar figure would we be talking in terms of royalties/payments sent to the writer for having their song(s) included? In other words, what would it be worth to one member in terms of payments for having or not having one song on a release of say 20 songs (selling for eaxample however many copies EH or Hawtorne may have sold)?

Unrelated, but if Dennis wanted WIBNTLA to be the final track of an album, why not CATP?

I think that and '4th' would have been good inclusions to that album. Does anyone here know why that was not considered? (or if it was, why it was rejected?)

 Correct, but we can't bump the title tune out of that spot 40 years down the road. I guess the only real context would be as bonus tracks after the album proper.

I would imagine that it's because by that time Dennis had written new songs that he wanted to record and put on a Beach Boys album. I haven't heard WIBNTLA but I am more of a 4th of July guy than I am a Cuddle Up or Make It Good guy. Nevertheless artists often like to focus on their new stuff. As Neil Young (who I am talking about a lot today) once said, "It's better to plant than to eat."

The mechanical royalty rate in the US is 9.1 cents per song per album, though it's possible if the composer and performer are the same person that their contract may stipulate a lower rate. That 9.1 cents would be split between all writers and publishers -- so if it was a song published by an outside publishing company that took 50% (I have no idea what the details of the various band members' contracts have stated at various times, but that's not unreasonable), and there was then a 50/50 split bwteen a composer and lyricist (because surprisingly few Beach Boys songs have a single writer), you're looking at two to three cents per CD sale for a song.

I don't know how much the EH or Hawthorne compilations sold, and Google isn't helping, but it wasn't a huge amount. They didn't chart in the US, and didn't make the top 40 in the UK, so let's say for argument's sake they sold 30,000 copies total to date (about half the first-week sales for the new album -- that doesn't sound totally unreasonable). That would mean that having an extra song on the album would make between $6825 (for a song with a single co-writer where the publishing company takes a 50% cut) and $27300 (for a solo song published by a company owned by the writer).

So taking into account that that's very much a finger-in-the-air estimate with a big fudge factor, you're talking about high four-figure or low five-figure sums for a song on a rarities compilation.

There's a lot I'd hope they put on that site. "In The Back Of My Mind"(Brian's 1975 piano demo) and the instrumental version of "Little Bird" being my top picks, but WIBNTLA seems like the universal pick for a site like that. Anyone know when its going to be up?

Seems to me that's good news.  If true, it means it probably will be released this year.  In fact, I would hope that all of the unreleased songs that a reasonable fan (a term that excludes most of the posters on this board) would want to hear will also be released this year.  It's time to have the complete catalog.

Ruh roh! I think the box set is our last chance for any rarities and unreleased stuff. So, Alan Boyd (or whoever is in charge) please get us some good/interesting stuff! Preferably "(Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again", "Where Is She", "California Feelin'" '74, "In the Back of My Mind" '75, "Barnyard Blues", etc!


Andrew, are you aware of when "Burlesque" was recorded? Or who sang lead, if it was ever finished? Judging by Jack Rieley comments it sounds like the Surf's Up era, but your page says 1972.

And also, I'm highly doubtful that even if "Burlesque" is finished and available in the vaults, that they'll release it. Apparently there were lyrics that Dr. Love felt objectionable to The Beach Boys family values (you know, despite the fact that he smacked his first wife around), and I doubt that would change for upcoming releases. If seemingly more open-minded 1971 or 1972 Mike Love wasn't in favor of it, I can't see him being in favor of it in 2012.


I'm going to guess never. The teaser page has been up since 2006 and since then, there's never been much said that would give us any reason to think it's coming any time soon.

More more! Walkin'! Carry Me Home! My Solution! We Got Love! Isn't there still unreleased Landlocked/Adult Child stuff? All of that!

Oh, and Surf's Up section 2. You know it's still out there!  ;)

Remember that list posted a few months ago of the secret Alan Boyd stash? Let's thumb through that again.

Thanks that was very helpful!

So, does this mean there were "official" alternate running orders for the "Surf's Up" album? If so, anybody have 'em?

I always thought it would have made a great leadoff track to that album, just as Dennis's "Slip on Through" opens Sunflower.

STEREO COUNTRY AIR!  :hat

What you talking about? What list? You mean when PongHit visited him?

I think I have missed something. Has an actual box set been announced?

Yeah it was announced last December. However, we have no idea what will be on it.

Yes -- I forgot who it was that visited him and had to be really vague. Sorry about that!

Just to clarify: I'm talking about "4th of July" as the perfect Surf's Up leadoff track...

I completely agree.

I have tried to reposition 4th of July and the only way it works for me is in between LPR and DG(1957).

Always thought "Surf's Up" could just as easily go at the end of side 1.  When this thing finally drops I think my playlist will look something like...

4th of July
Don't Go Near the Water
Disney Girls (1957)
Long Promised Road
Surf's Up
    
Feel Flows
Lady
A Day in the Life of a Tree
'Til I Die
Wouldn't it Be Nice to Live Again

Yay lists!

This is how my track order would go:

Don't Go Near the Water
Long Promised Road
4th of July
Disney Girls (1957)
Fallin' in Love
Feel Flows
Lookin' at Tomorrow
A Day in the Life of a Tree
'Til I Die
Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again

with Take a Load Off Your Feet, Student Demonstration Time, and Surf's Up (1971) as bonus tracks...

Yup and I would rename it Landlocked!  >:D

I think 'Fourth of July' was supposed to segue into 'Long Promised Road'.

If WIBNTLA isn't included in any anniversary release(s) this year then i'm sorry but the only - the only - conclusion to draw from that is that certain members of the band voted down it's inclusion because they still remain jealous/disgruntled by Dennis' song writing abilities. Even after all this time it's still an issue for them. Which is staggeringly pathetic. Surely the band and those involved with the group can not possibly be unaware of the enthusiasm amongst the dedicated fanbase regarding Dennis' unreleased works, and in particular this one song. So again, if WIBNTLA is once again passed up for release - pathetic.

(Of course if the song is released i will admit i was completely and utterly wrong and will happily retract the above statement).

In the same perfect world where WIBNTLA was released on Surf's Up, that album wouldn't be called Surf's Up because the title track would've been released in 1967 on a little album called Smile.

That must be the same universe which in 1978 saw the simultaneous release of Dennis' fourth untitled solo album and Brian's It's A Beach Boys Stockhausen Disco Party!, which consisted of a continuous 40-minute synthesizer version of "Shortenin' Bread".

Produced by Eno with Devo as his backing band.

"We wanted to make this Brian's equivalent of Kraftwerk's Autobahn, a continuous sound suite that tells a story -- in this case, one about momma's little chillun," admitted Eno in a candid telephone interview.

If they leave off WIBNTLA because of jealously and disgruntlage of Dennis, then I don't think I'd want anything to do with the Beach Boys. The guy's been freaking dead for nearly thirty years, and they'd need to get over themselves.

I doubt that'd be the case, though, or else we wouldn't have had "4th of July," "A Time To Live In Dreams," "Barbara," "All Alone," and the second of only two released instances of "San Miguel." Not to mention "I Don't Know" on TSS -- which is primarily a Brian project; certainly if they still held a grudge, they wouldn't have let Dennis's tune infiltrate a Smile compilation.

My guess: they're just saving it, that's all...after all, it WAS planned for a DVD release, but the entire project was scrapped.

This is why we were all enraged when the reissued Brothers records came out without bonus tracks in 2000 or so. Could have been great. But maybe they wouldn't have had the space to fit all those Landlocked/unreleased tracks on the Sunflower/Surf's Up two-fer anyway.

As i say, if WIBNTLA surfaces this year i'll admit i was wrong, but i sure wouldn't bet money on it... But, you know, that's not an enormous number of songs you've listed above there - there's still so many more top quality Dennis tracks still languishing in the vaults: I'm Going Your Way, Carry Me Home, Mona Kani, the aformentioned WIBNTLA, etc. And the Smile Sessions I Don't Know argument is odd - including a Dennis demo amongst a 150+ track boxset does not disprove my theory.

But your 'the guy's been dead for 30 freakin' years, get over yourselves' comment? Nicely put.

This song's's extraordinary high quality stands out from the rest of Dennis's unreleased material left in the vault, and, while they could have snuck it in as a bonus track on the SU reissue, there might be some reluctance to let it be the most conspicuous, noteworthy inclusion in the kind of high-profile commemorative release that this year will hopefully see. That would be awful indeed. It would be a perfect capper to all the events of the last year, and hopefully the prospect of increased sales will overcome any pride or ego issues that could be involved. The circumstances were different around the inclusion of the other unreleased DW tracks on EH and Hawthorne, CA. The excitement that would be generated by this song's release (+ the '74 California Feeling demo and the "I've Got A Friend" track) would be huge, and if anyone in power is reading this, please do the right thing!

Holy cow, that tracklist is nothing but a masterpiece, it would've gathered more acclaim than perhaps even Sunflower. I cannot believe that this was never the case. Oh God why did Carl have to be so damned dogmatic about having SU at the end. This is nothing but a tragedy close to Smile. All the music was ready, yet instead of that great tracklist we ended up wih SDT, Looking at tomorrow, and TALOYF. All of these are worse than any of the Dennis songs... Oh the tragedy! :wall

When the time comes that the remaining Boys are no longer with us, Capitol will surely release a flood of tracks, maybe redo SU completely and remixes of many albums (including many mono ones into stereo from the 1965-67 period). We can only wait and see.

Hey.. :(

This is interesting. I use it as the final track in my own Surf's Up based compilation...


Which is why I call my Surf's Up based compilation "Sound Of Free" - no "Surf's Up" on it.

Sweet baby Jesus.
That list is a f*cking masterpiece.

But you havn't heard Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again, have you?

That does look like a pretty good list. But, some questions:

-I'm not familiar with Lady--actually intended for SU? Is there a particular version that was?
-So HELP and Sound of Free are not considered part of the early SU list? (For me, SOF doesn't fit the sound of SU, HELP kinda does--I've used it to replace DGNTW as a health/eco song...)

And obviously, I guess Burlesque hasn't been included on many lists because none of us have heard it; not even AGD, correct?

Thanks for your patience in hearing my rambling questions.

"Lady" and "HELP" were on a compilation tape of finished tracks that might have been used for the album after Sunflower, at the time tentatively titled "Landlocked". From that tape only "Take A Load Off Your Feet" and "Lookin' At Tomorrow" made it to the final album (remixed) when it was retitled "Surf's Up". Personally, I love that collection usually referred to as "Landlocked" way more than the Surf's Up album.

Same here. Really, Lady or Fallin' In Love was recorded during the Sunflower sessions, as were many tracks that didn't make the final cut including most of the Landlocked tracks. HELP was recorded just after the Sunflower sessions ended and just as the Surf's Up sessions were beginning. I always thought that Sound of Free was a Dennis solo track though what was a Dennis solo track and what wasn't may have been a bit ambiguous even at the time.

Also, as far as I know, there was never a proposed Landlocked album and that's only been the name given to that collected bunch of songs in retrospect.

Much is explained here:

1969 (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs69.html)
1970 (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/gigs70.html)

Very, very well up. But again you're highlighting what i was saying: that even though it seems breathtakingly pathetic to not want to include a quality piece of music by a fellow band member out of sheer petty jealousy, that sadly seems highly likely to still be the mindset of some (all?) of the surviving BB's. You know, Dennis has spent the last three decades being dead - isn't that punishment enough, Mike, without refusing to release one of his finest moments?

(Oops, i said Mike - but hey, lets face it, when we refer to 'some of the band' basically what we all mean is 'Mike'. It's Mike isn't it. Maybe Bruce too, but mainly Mike. If WIBNTLA is pulled from any upcoming release i think we can all safely assume that Mike was involved). 

Erm, I always thought that they were holding some gems in the vault precisely for some kind of possible future compilation.

Ditto that. I hope that's the case and I hope it sees release this year.

"(WIBNT)LA" was slated for at least one recent(-ish) compilation but was vetoed by a voting BRI member.

Hmm. You learn something completely crazy everyday.

Quite interesting to note is that the team who brought us the "Smile Sessions", Alan Boyd and Mark Linett (who usually engineers Brain's recordings but didn't "TWGMTR") are VERY. VERY quiet in all the new album/tour hub bub.

One might wonder WHAT they are working on?

Humm, new career spanning box set coming supposedly containing unreleased material?

As AGD is unusually quiet these days and keeps a secret better than anyone,...................

Just sayin.

So, I'm assuming we're talking Warmth of the Sun. Does one veto scrap the whole thing?

I think there's obviously going to be a kick ass boxset, just for the reason that they need to replace the 25th anniversary set anyways.  So perhaps it will pop up on there.  If Carl's wife stops vetoing it, that is!

OK, factor in Stan Shapiro (as the song's co-writer and co-publisher) and the DW bio pic along with a possible Beach Boys release of the original recording and the commercial possibilites become very interesting.

In other words, Mike.

The veto could have been brought out because whomever-it-was thought it would be better served for the prospective 50th anniversary.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)

pixletwin- maybe that's the case.

Nope.

Congrats - you are precisely 100% wrong in saying that.

I'm assured in knowing that the decision to veto it was either made by Brian, Al, or Carl's estate.

 ;D

Yeah, congrats, Zach!  :lol

Jeez, a guy can't be wrong around here. You guys are vicious.

100% vicious.

Something to consider: all voting BRI members approved of Dennis's "Lady" on SUMMER LOVE SONGS, so maybe WIBNTLA was deemed too dark or otherwise inappropriate for the recent-ish comp(s)?

 :lol

I think I have this track:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-BEACH-BOYS-The-Warmth-Of-The-Sun-promo-advance-acetate-CD-/200906874279?pt=Music_CDs&hash=item2ec6fb9da7

Inb4 your inbox explodes.  ;)

Holy moley.....

Blimey.

I don't believe in WIBNTLA until it's announced or a link to hear it is posted here. This could easily be trolling.

 :o

If it has existed on that disc for the past 6 years, it is pretty surprising that it hasn't leaked during that time.

(http://i.qkme.me/3pcr8i.jpg)

well, that explains a winning bid of $393...

Yeah what the f*** is that

I believe this is the real deal! Hope the buyer shares the song online to punish Capitol and BRI for the way they have handled the Beach Boys archives since the Hawthorne 2CD and have delayed MIC constantly.

Wow, that's wild. Good find.

Floored…

But like others can't believe that word of this didn't reach this board last month…

Holy sh*t.

Oh my god... I think I'm gonna go cry and change my pants...

You think you have the track?   :-\

Did you win the bid? Oh my god this better not go quiet like the acetates WE ALL DESERVE THIS TRACK FOR BEING LOYAL FANS HAHAHAHA...

I never heard about this song until an ebayer send me a message asking me to share the track... How can I be 100% sure that it is the Dennis version? The quality of sound is not perfect but very good and the voice really seems to be Dennis'. I aslo read somewhere on this topic that the song was planned to be released on the "Warmth of the Sun" compilation... As always with Acetate, I'm affraid to have purchased a fake... And this time, it would be an expensive fake... Any suggestion? Do you think BRI will authorize me to share 10 seconds of the chorus for identicate the song?

Is it just me, but I'm more than happy to wait until MIC comes out.

Hearing the track in isolation, after so much anticipation and excitement over the box set, would be a bit like having your mushy peas months before the fish n' chips arrive.

Dude, you legally bought that thing. There's no law against privately sharing it with friends for pleasure and thus incidentally authenticating it (or not).

I'm still doubtful, though..

Please man, as long as you don't sell it... PLEASE dude.

To be fair, I haven't heard the Dennis version, but I know the correct key, fade out, everything like that I know quite a bit about the song.

Brian and Carl should be heard on backing vocals, the fade should (but could be different) be sort of like a jam...

AHHHH I CAN'T BELIEVE IT MIGHT BE TRUE!

Well, what do you think of the song?  Good, great?

Trust me, If its WIBNTLA it's GREAT. The version we have is already AMAZING.

Well, is everything else on the comp legit? Ie, are Then I Kissed Her and Let Him Run Wild stereo mixes, for example - they debuted in stereo on Warmth Of The Sun, if I recall?

The track order on that is interesting:

I think just from the fact that it follows Surf's Up... I mean how many random bootleggers would know enough about the song? many?

Yeah, the real issue is that these promo cds have been floating around since 2007! That's FOUR YEARS. Where are the collectors when you need them?  ;D

2007 -> 2013 = 5/6 years (give or take months)

My subconscious clearly longs for the halcyon days of 2011....

So question: If this is real, how is this gonna work? We're all obviously gonna flip out and BEG so avoiding that and figuring it out now...

Agreed. ;D

Nothing beat that feeling when I opened the SMiLE box back in Nov 2011... And my friends all knew it existed without knowing a thing about it because it's all I went on about  ;D

Are we forgetting that after DECADES of being "unknown" we FINALLY may have WIBNTLA??

It's the end of working day in France. I'm now going at home (where I have no Internet) and the first thing I will do is a copy of the track! After I will listen it again and again so that I could describe you the song tomorrow with more details. 9 hours ago, I was completely ignorant about this track (I even didn't know that it exists) and now, from the discussions on the forum, I realize that it is important for some people. More to come...

First off....


VIVE LA FRANCE!!  :3d


and second: how come you're big enough a fan to spend 400 bucks on a BBs CD but not know about WIBNTLA...?  :P Or did I miss something?

Dude, I can't wait, here's to tomorrow!

Nice find esp if WIBNTLA isn't included on the MIC box set because the value of that promo is then going to skyrocket.

Although I wouldn't be upset if I somehow got to listen to it , I can wait until the boxed set comes out.

You know what? After all this time this feels somewhat anticlimactic...



#Walking Dead Season Finale

I agree!! OH MY GOD I CAN'T BELIEVE WE FINALLY MAY HAVE IT!!!

Its just a BBs outtake at the end of day.

How dare you.  :o

An outtake comes to be an outtake many different ways, keep in mind, thus this isn't really fair to say. Unless you're being sarcastic, come on d00d - it's a lost Dennis Wilson track. Cool as fudge.

It is a cool find, but everybody hyping it up to be the greatest lost BBs track since "Surf's Up" is bound to be disappointed. I am excited to hear it eventually, but I am not falling out of my chair.

Oh, that promo!  I've had a copy of that for years.  I didn't really think much of it until I just saw this thread.  Anyway, since everyone's so interested, here's that track.  (Incidentally, if anyone from BRI sees this and thinks I really shouldn't be sharing it, just let me know and we can hopefully reach some agreement.)

http://www.spoonfeeding.org/audio/wibntla.mp3

That. Is. Incredible. :o

My mind is blown.

It seems like it would be easy for anyone to make a promo CDR like this one purports to be, put it on ebay, and make a few hundred dollars.  On the other hand, you'd think that if someone were running a scam like that, the ebay ad would at least spotlight WIBNTLA to draw more people in.

Hopefully we'll find out very soon.

No-one can see but this news has me raising my left eyebrow.

(http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=2320;type=avatar)

Yes! Like that!  ;D

 :lol

If no one else is going to mention it, this is hilarious. You've made my evening. Very funny, thank you!

Wait, this was a joke? ;)

It gave me a good chuckle as well :lol

Guys, Guys, expect it to be as good as Surf's Up in a Dennis way haha...

Slightly amusing that beachboysfr paid $400 for it without even knowing there was an uncirculated unreleased track on it.

You don't even look like that anymore  8)

Ah, I get it then. It is a bit wearing to hear about it all the time, either having it hyped to the moon (often by people who've never heard the original version) and angry fanboys cursing Carl for being a regressive asshole (always by people who've never heard the original version) on the Surf's Up album, but yeah, am definitely exited to hear it just the same. I really hope this is the real deal, here - there's no guarantee that a version that may or may not appear on Made In California will be the same mix/edit/master/whatever, after all.

That version of Live Again sounds like The Legendary Stardust Cowboy's version of it....

Did you say Walking Dead Season Finale?
http://youtu.be/L2RNhImgTtc

Even if it's not as great as some have claimed, it will be really nice to hear. Many of us have purchased all the albums at least twice, plus the original box set, Hawthorne, Endless Harmony, etc., and it's frustrating that all of that did not include WIBNTLA, while giving us a zillion copies of some of the hits, plus unneeded stuff like the Surfin' USA backing track.  It's just time for it to be released.

Absolutely, don't get me wrong, like I said I'm definitely excited that we may be hearing it soon. I'll definitely be buying whatever comes out on too, obviously.

Ditto. I won't complain about seeing it in my inbox either. But I am excited for the box set too.

THE MEANING FOR MY EXISTENCE HAS ARRIVED.  :o

Theydon Bois for President

If I could take a listen that would do me just fine till MIC arrives!

Wake up tomorrow morning, only to find out it's just "Wouldn't It Be Nice".....

Theydon Bois' version is clearly the definitive one. Dennis' one will be a major let-down after that.

what

Is this a joke???

No, it's the real thing.  Dennis' voice changed dramatically for a short time in 1971 after he was hit in the throat by a Manson follower.  WIBNTLA may be the only song he recorded that way.

:lol

We should know by tomorrow what it is, and he will most likely know if it's the real deal.

‍

Wouldn't it be nice to hear Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again?  I say YES!

  I've been waiting so many years to hear this song, it almost doesn't seem possible that it could actualy happen.  I would certainly contribute to finaly hear this song!

I don't want to come across as a killjoy but open unauthorised circulation of one if the key tracks - Nd therefore prime USPs - of a new compilation not long (hopefully) before official release might be used a s a reason for ditching the release altogether.

As many will know I'm partial to the occasional silver disc myself but something like this ought to be handled extremely delicately bearing in mind that this board is fortunate enough to be visited by folk at the heart if the official release programme.

Are you Steve Hoffman by any chance?

It's no doubt true that something like this should be handled delicately but c'mon, a record company isn't going to cancel an entire box set because they hear about a few people on a message board getting access to a single track.  That's just crazy talk.

SMiLE was almost completely bootlegged when the box was released,
Why would the release of a track what should've been released YEARS ago be expected not to be leaked out eventually?

Always remember, Capitol were going to pull the plug on the whole Smile Sessions project because people were actually calling the Tower and asking for details of it. They wanted to buy it. We know this is true because The Hoff said so, on his own board... so never underestimate the latent insanity of a record company.

Long shot but did Mark Linett buy it?

The winning bid was by "y***r", possibly short for "Your place or mine". Yeah serious long shot.

Dude, Beachboys_Fr has the disk haha...

Ohh, he bought it  :o

When is he leaking it  ;D

Well this is exciting news. I think John Manning has a point though. It could jeopardize an official release of the song but if someone's willing to share it's kind of a moot point unless we demand that he keeps it to himself. Somehow I think consensus may swing the other way!

However, seems odd to me that this has apparently been in the fan community for 6 years without being circulated. But I'm a trusting kind of person so, c'mon Beachboys Fr, wake up and share it already!

Okay I concede that sharing the file might not jeopardise this coming box but if I were Mark Linett or Capitol or Alan Boyd etc etc etc it might sure as hell make me consider whether it's worth bothering my arse putting together any future archive releases.

Just my tu'penny worth!

:-\

... but surely people gathering stuff for a commemorative box set of a band as huge as the BBs would use other ways than bidding on f*cking ebay to acquire stuff?  ??? Say, contacting said party and negotiating a price in a private manner?
I'd say that CD went to some guy who's playing it in his car on his way to work now each morning (whilst not having a f*cking clue about an upcoming box set).

It was one of the shortest nights of my life and you know why...

First, I can confirm at 99% that it is Dennis' voice. I was a little bit puzzleled when I listened to the song for the first time two days ago because I found the voice a little bit "clear". But I didn't know at this time that the song was recorded at the begining of the 70's. I had in mind Dennis' voice at the latter 70's / early 80's.

Here are more information on the track. I precise that I still have not heard other version(s). I don't want being polluted...

Total time is 04:33. There is a short intro of 00:06 with piano as the main instrument. Then Dennis sings alone. At 00:33 background vocals begin. I can't confirm if it is Brian and Carl or not. At 00:39, drums begin. The same structure is repeated once. After 02:35, there are mainly harmonies and from 03:44 to the end, Dennis repeats the same sentence. He doesn't really sing; he almost speaks. The averall sound is not perfect but quite good. I think it is a great song even if I'm not a Dennis fan (I have not POC at home!). But I love songs like "Only with you", "Forever", Barbara", and this track is in a similar vein.

Now, I will listen another version(s) and tell you. Just to be clear: how much version do we know? Only the cover recorded for the tribute?

It may appear strange to pay $400 for a CD without knowing that this song was on it, but I'm first interested in CDs. I'm an heavy Beach Boys on CD collector and since I have  almost all now, I can concentrate resources on missing items. I had also a bad experience in the past with such CDs when I lost an auction on eBay for 6 Beach Boys reference CDs which were probably unique...

Anyway, I have made no decision about what I will do with the track. On one hand, I don't want to keep it for me and, on the other hand, I want to be as legal as possible. More to come...

This would seriously make my day - I'm stuck inside revising all day  :( ;D

May I suggest either PM  for those who want to hear or putting it on soundcloud with an alternative title which you then post the link to here?

Or... they might just go to the vaults and pull out the original multitracks, as they did for TWOTS. Just a crazy idea of mine, but I feel it has some merit.

I think your concerns are justified but the desire for this unreleased material is just too great in the fan community - once it's leaked it will be shared and discussed regardless. The problem is with the initial leak.

My suggestion is that if we get to hear it, we just post that we still intend to buy the official version, if ever released.

Hearing a bootleg version of the track would certainly not stop me buying MIC if the track makes it onto that set.

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2rnen9u.jpg)

THERE IS MUCHO DELETION GOING ON HERE, WHAT GIVES?  :(

Too much Google-French I think.

I imagine it has something to do with the sticky at the top of the board about constant requests for PMs and how they're not allowed in case they get the board shut down. It may also have something to do with the disappearance of the board for two days, though I wouldn't like to say for sure...

It appears the board was moved to a new server, which is why it was/is "down". The "missing" posts are on the old server, so it's possible the move was already happening before those posts were made.

Yeah that makes sense. It's just a coincidence and has nothing to do with this song.

so back to where we were: WIBNTLA is in someone on this board's possesion IIRC. I presume that info was shared here in order to let the rest of the board hear it and not dangle it out of reach above us like a carrot?

One or two people on this board have the song and they appear not to be sharing  :-\

Jackasses.

Unless those people that have the song are people in positions where they should have the song and then all is good.

But otherwise, selfish jackasses ;)

I remember waiting for, oh, 8 years, or so, just dreaming (literally daily) about NIRVANA's "You Know You're Right," pouring over descriptions from those who had heard the recording and imagining how the live version we in the fan community were familiar with would translate in the studio.

Sounds an awful like what's going on here, no?  :)

Happily, when we finally did get a hold of it, the final recording by the band turned out to be an absolutely stallar achievement (and two years later, we got the arguably even more stunning, "Do Re Mi").  My hope is that the same will be true of WIBNTLA.  Something tells me that, in this regard, lightning may just strike twice and although I would love if someone were to share this song, if it's included on any offical Beach Boys release, I'll eventually be purchasing it, anyway.

I have to say, part of me is jealous that The Beach Boys still have such potential unheard gems in their posession.  I know the Beatles had fewer years-worth of recording sessions, by far, than the 'Boys, but the best we in Beatlefan-dom have to hope for (that we know of, anyway) is, what, "Carnival of Light"?  Oh, well, the complete acetate of "Revolution 1" was an amazing, surprise unearthing, in its own right, so I suppose one never does know.

Either way, these are exciting times, for sure.

I would give almost anything to hear this song... PLEASE!

Same..

One person who was lucky enough to receive the song via PM posted that it was "Dennis's 'surf's up'". Not quite sure why he's not spreading the wealth

Seriously, I bet every person in this thread if not this board would love to hear it.

Where has anyone posted that they have it?

Naturally.  As this is a small community of devoted Beach Boys fans, that's a given.  ;)

The upside of, say, making it available by linking it only to we here, is that every one of us is bound to purchase the song the moment it becomes avaiable commercially, so there's no hit to the group and/or the label.  I'm not necessarily advocating a move like that, per se, but it would be cool (however unlikely) for the powers-that-be to offer an arrangement of some sort, along those lines.

I'd rather wait to hear the remixed, remastered version on MIC. First time and all.

Yeah, I'd love to hear it. Nothing will happen if this gets out.


It already was remixed and mastered for The Warmth Of The Sun. There's no promise it'll be on Made In California, either.

Pretty sure no one has gotten this yet, and that Dennis' "Surf's Up" comment (IIRC) was FOTM geeking out.

That is pretty much what I had figured too,

My mistake.

Honestly, I'm not that bothered. Adam's version of the song is very nice, but the song itself doesn't do all that much for me. I'm sure it's a great production, and so on, but I can't imagine any version of that song being much better than, say, Carry Me Home or plenty of other already-booted stuff.

I may be wrong, of course, but I'll just wait for the box to come out. It'll probably be on there, and I'm not so desperate to hear this that I can't wait...

I only have the AMCB version, I'm waiting (impatiently) as well!

I really enjoyed the Alan Boyd (?) version someone posted a few pages back. I have given that and the AMCB version quite a lot of plays this last week.  :lol

I can just say objectively that it's probably harder for something to get "leaked" when there is literally only one known source that it could have leaked from, and the identity of the person who procured that one source is known or able to be determined.

Brother/Capitol could post it online to tease the boxed set or something, but that would, you know, make some sense. We never got "Beach Boys Central" with the trove of unreleased material, so it would be nice if they could maybe post this track on the web or facebook or something, just one track, one that could imminently leak anyway and is going to be released soon.

Thing is, more people are aware of the promo now. Odd that it took six years for this to come to light, but it does happen.

If they put out a finished band/Capitol approved master on a promo CD and left it off the final release of WOTS (WHY?!?) they don't really have room to complain that a few fans are finally enjoying a song that has been heavily discussed in the fan community and even covered.

We don't even have a guarantee that it will make the MIC box set, however crazy it would be for them not to include it.  It appears as though the song has almost been released at least once only to be pulled at the last minute.

I said the same thing elsewhere on the interwebz.

I agree it is a bit odd that someone's bought this off eBay, turns up here saying "hey, look at what I've got, is it the real deal ?" then wonders what to do. Much easier to authenticate it in private via PM with someone who would know, like Adam or Alan. All seems a bit 'honey trap'-ish...

I don't think it's odd at all.  He's primarily a cd collector so he wanted the promo and then besides the fact realized it may have something special on it.

The track isn't a final, mastered version.  The promo was clearly just a working copy before they settled on a tracklist.  Mastering is the last step of the process.

"(WIBNT)LA" has been established as a legendary track (and rightly so) for over a decade, and the 'realizing' consisted of reading the track listing. Call me cynical but something's just not sitting right. Why the drawing attention when a PM would have been way more effective ? From the description, it's the real deal. It got canned from WOTS because someone exercised their veto.

You're cynical.  :)

I'm sure the poster is legit.  Outside of this board and the few like it no one has heard of this song.  It makes perfect sense that if he stumbled across a copy and didn't recognize the title he'd do a search on here to find out what it is.

Lee Dempsey already verified the guy's authenticity as a major collector. Maybe that was one of the posts lost in the server swap, I haven't looked back.

The guy's definitely legit. For starters, he's posted on other lists -- both private and public -- throughout the years (I remember him mostly for his impressive live video and audio collection). Recently, IIRC, he even asked elsewhere about the contents of a specific BBs Special Markets CD.

He's also definitely the person who won the auction in question, as one click on the seller's recent feedback will verify.



Thus, I too am hoping that he shares the fruits of his good fortune. He truly sounded like he wanted to.

I'm saying s little prayer for  beachboys_fr.

I imagine he's tied up in a basement somewhere while Mark and Alan ransack his house for the CD

Not saying the guy isn't legit - the track description is very very accurate - just pondering aloud that asking on a public forum might not be the best way to go about authenticating it without putting up a goodly number of flags. Not to mention dropping whoever sold the CD (they're watermarked) in mucho merde.

I'm mostly surprised BRI let the auction go through without stopping it.  They've always been so quick to pull anything that they consider infringement.  I speak from my own bitter experience - they've blocked a few of my Smile auctions.  Bastards.  :lol

Do we know why this song was vetoed off TWOTS in the first place while Fallin' in Love was included on SLS?

Why is everyone suddenly talking like it's a done deal that WIBNTLA is going to be on the upcoming box? I'm optimistic that third time's the charm and it will be included (after falling through the cracks twice before) but as of yet there has been bugger all offical confirmation of it's status either way.

Isn't that acronym a little... suggestive.

Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray for beachboys_fr showing up and yielding us this song...

beachboys_fr: "yo board I have this legendary song which you've been moaning about since EH came out over a decade ago. What should I do?"

board: "ehm, post it?"

beachboys_fr: "yo board, i'm not so sure. should I really?"

board: "ehm, you did purchase it legit on e-bay, thereby making it your possession and making you free to post it for 'study purposes' or other non-commercial interest"

beachboys_fr has left the conversation


......


What I mean with this is that since he has informed the entire board about having the song he might as well post it. If he were really that unsure he could've withheld the info or sent a PM to someone with more knowledge regarding legal matters or other related matters. I just feel it does injustice to all those who were hoping to finally hear the song only to be declined. It's just a song after all...being released 40 years after being penned and recorded. There is little financial gain for anyone anyway and the guy who deserved all that financial gain and recognition has been dead for 30 years.

I agree he should share the track, it's a disgrace to the Beach Boys legacy how all legal parties have handled Dennis Wilson's Beach Boys era outtakes.

Or since he posted very publicly about it, he might have received a cease and desist.

Even though I don't see Lee's post, if he says the guy's legit, I believe him. The thing I wonder, if he's a 'major collector' with lots of records and CD's and an extensive video collection, how could he not know about "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again"? I think he said he investigated the song when he saw the contents of the CD on Ebay and was wondering about it. Then he tried to legitimize it here after he won the auction and was asking more questions about it? As a Beach Boys fan by itself, if you've read this board (or searched it) the past few years, you would know right away what the song is. And the Cabinessence board too. And the French guy didn't know about the song when he bid on it in the auction? The song was covered by the Marsland Band and it was also played for fans at a Beach Boys convention in '07. How could this guy buy a CD for 400 bucks and not know what WIBNTLA is?

yup there is something fishy in that story. Why would one pay that much for tracks already available. And it is afterall not a rare find from the 60's or 70's but a very modern, uncool CD which was used as an early version of TWOTS, a follow-up to the successful SOS comp but with a rediculous cover and undistinguished  title failed to capture many buyers (I really wonder why they called it TWOTS and gave it that terrible cover rather than bind it closer to SOS - SURFBOARDS VERBOTEN, look at what happened to the dreadful 50BO comp).

His silence, the ambiguity in his comments and the bizarre act of describing the track in words (which I believe has been done before) rather than just giving us the track (or at least a snippet of it if he was so uncertain) makes me doubt we have the track. At least I will not believe it until it is readily available to all.

Really don't want it all to be troll, but it sure smells of it.

Hi there,
Long time lurker but I feel the need to post. I am the ebayer that he refers to in his post that alerted him to the track after he outbid me and won the item. My max bid was $317 and I knew exactly what track was on there which was why I was bidding so high. I assumed he knew about the track so I emailed him to ask how it was at which point he told me that he did not realize that WIBNTLA was on there. 
No, he has not shared it with me (not even a sample) and I can't say that I blame him at this point.

Interestingly enough, the seller would not send a sample either as I was concerned that this disc may have been erroneously labeled (not the sellers doing just perhaps she got it and didn't realize what was on there). Like a fool, I still bid $317!

I am not too broken up about it. I am not $317 poorer and I am sure that it will be released sometime soon.

Going back to lurking and judging now.  ;D

I love the name TWOTS! It kinda has a ring to it.....

Since my last post was deleted in the server swap, I'll repeat it here.  Beachboys_fr is a prominent BB CD collector.  He and I have had a number of conversations over the years about promo CDs.

The CD in question is NOT your basic advance promo that is sent to media reviewers and radio; this was an in-house reference disc circulated inside the Tower to vet the project and to prepare the marketing plan.  The seller was named "Cheryl," and there was a Cheryl (Pawelski) that was formerly a marketing exec at EMI.  Looking at the seller's other auctions, they are all promos and industry comps.  That all makes sense.

Now on the other hand, given that the final sales price was almost $400, and the first bidder (of 5 bidders) had an opening bid of $200, I think all of the bidders knew that something special was potentially on the disc.

As to calling the new owner names because he won't share with the masses, that's uncalled for.  Think of it this way -- I love fine wines.  If I bought a bottle of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, I might take it to a nice restaurant to share with a few family members or close friends, but if you were a stranger sitting across the room I probably wouldn't pour you a glass.  The owner is well within his rights to share, or not share, as he pleases.

Lee

You should post here more often, Gene.  Anybody willing to part with 317 bucks for a Beach Boys CD must be a damn serious collector and is OK in my book!  ;D

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't issued a cease and desist orderm like TRRBB said.   Somebody's going to be in hot water.

Exactly.

Honestly, I think it was extremely generous of him to be open about sharing it. He said previously that he was merely concerned about the legality of it, and that he didn't want to keep the track for himself since it seemed to special to a lot of people.

If I was the French poster and read these last two pages of discussion about my behavior, presonally I wouldn't post here again.

Cheryl Pawelski. I've seen her name in the Beach Boys credits on releases over the years, especially as Executive Producer of the two-fers.

CHERYL PAWELSKI
 
Three-time Grammy-nominated producer, Cheryl Pawelski has, for the past twenty years, been entrusted with preserving, curating and championing some of music’s greatest legacies. Before Omnivore she held posts as VP of A&R at Rhino Entertainment and VP of Catalog Development at Concord Music Group. Prior to those gigs, she spent twelve years at EMI/Capitol Records and consulted to many other labels and iTunes as well. She has produced or overseen hundreds of recordings, reissues and boxed sets for a diverse array of artists including: Aretha Franklin, The Beach Boys, The Band, Big Star, Miles Davis, Rod Stewart, Otis Redding, Bette Midler, Willie Nelson, Warren Zevon, Chicago, The Staple Singers, Stephen Stills, Richard Thompson, John Coltrane and many more. Her soundtrack work has included Fiddler On The Roof, Raging Bull, Woodstock, Juno, Up In The Air, and Shutter Island. She is currently serving on the Board of Governors for the Los Angeles Chapter of The Recording Academy. Her vast archival record and memorabilia collection yielded an exhibit at Experience Music Project in Seattle, WA, Spaced Out! The Final Frontier In Album Covers. It opened August, 2009 and also traveled to The Museum at Bethel Woods in 2011. The exhibit featured 117 space-themed albums released between the 1940s and 1969. She is proud that when she was fresh out of school, she decided to leave her first “serious” job to work at a record store.
  
Surprised she's selling stuff on Ebay.........was she involved with the Warmth Of The Sun comp CD? She must have known about the rare track on it if the starting bid was 200 bucks!

To clarify Mikie, the opening bid wasn't $200, but the first bidder's max bid was $200.

How are you buddy?  Will Brison says "hi!"   :wave   ;)

Lee

Oy.

I love my favorite band and want to support them, but sometimes I get really sick of their (and Capitol's) old-school policy of keeping everything under super tight wraps and chasing/bullying people who may have leaked or heard interesting things.

Damn straight - finders keepers, losers weepers.  :lol

Gotcha.  So that first bidder knew the value because of the track (but at the same time was taking a little chance that it was legit).

Doing fine, Lee.  Please send Will my regards!  :)

If anything, this thread has heightened interest in the upcoming box set.  I'll be buying it, but it better have WIBNTLA on it.  

Is the song "If I could live my life again" a different track?

That's All Alone.

I'd have bid on this... if I'd known...

At this point the box has to have it on it.

Hey Beach_boys_fr, I understand man, maybe you were asked to stop on the subject, maybe you can't share, alright! JUST PLEASE LET US KNOW I CAN'T SIT HERE WAITING ANY LONGER AHHHH HAHAHA

Totally off with that analogy. This guy basically has infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild. If I had infinite bottles of 2000 Chateau Lafite Rothschild, you bet your tits I'd be sharing with everyone in the restaurant that night. The guy offered the same not long ago, so I understand the frustration of people. Fair enough on it being his right to not share, and I don't agree with calling him names, but still.

Even if there was a law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild were sat at the next table looking at you, everyone else in the restaurant was a stranger and some of them had insulted you because it looked for a second like you might not share?

Oh well,

Say what time period was the Dennis song recorded?

All Alone?  Recorded around 1978 for Bambu.  Carli Munoz actually wrote it - Dennis sang it.

There are people that collect promos, and pay a lot for them regardless of if there is unique material on them or not. That seems to be the case here.

How many other people think this whole saga is absurd bordering on ridiculous? I should have just stayed out of it, but this whole story is too far gone not to add a few thoughts.

It gets into all the angles and legal pitfalls and everything else that pawn shops and resellers deal with on a daily basis.

Look, if someone sells something "by accident", or doesn't know what they had and let it go cheap, or mistakenly sells a family heirloom in a box of junk at a yard sale, or buys something at a yard sale which turns out to have been sold by mistake...who shoulders the responsibility if the original owner(s) wants it back? The buyer fulfilled his/her part of the legal contract by paying for it and taking possession of the item. Done deal, the ownership has been transferred. If the item is on file as having been reported stolen, and the original owner has all the proof that it is the same item stolen from them, then the buyer is obligated by law to return that item to the authorities, who may hold it as evidence for a time if it is part of the case against the person who originally stole it, but they will eventually get it back to the rightful owner.

But in this case...what if the ownership itself can be questioned? Or what if it is an item which like an album can easily be copied? Is someone obligated to now give the "original" back? It would have no value! Much like a stolen bottle of expensive wine...more on that later. Every damned "promo" CD I've ever seen or owned is clearly marked "not for sale", yet we buy them secondhand all the time at various shops and sales. Where does it go from here? Classic example of a law, on the books, that simply does not get enforced, specifically in the music biz unless it's concerning an overly protective or obsessive artist or label interest (like Guns N Roses, Prince, whoever...). Movies are a whole different story...the big studios got sick of every local paper's resident "critic" getting a preview DVD of a blockbuster then giving it out to all their friends. So they cracked down.

An auction sale is a legal transaction...someone sold something sensitive to a buyer and at this point a starting bid in the several hundred dollar range for a test pressing CD of Beach Boys tunes MIGHT JUST HAVE BEEN A HINT that it was more than just a early CD test pressing of BB's tunes...the buyer has the right to do whatever they want with it in private short of breaking existing laws, and I don't see how - if anyone thinks the legality of this extends beyond the sale itself - the blame would go beyond the person who sold it.

But with this involving easily transferable media in a digital age, I'm curious what the ramifications might turn out to be.

That bottle of expensive booze mentioned earlier: Let's say that very bottle had been secretly removed by a staffer from a larger supply, like a case being kept in a private collection by a wealthy individual, then sold privately to someone else. Let's say that new owner pours a round for some close friends, and they all enjoy the expensive drink, and the bottle is emptied. Then the *original* owner who later notices a bottle missing from his case reports it stolen, and someone tracks it down...only to find the now third owner and his friends had already drank and drained the whole bottle. It's a done deal, lesson learned, all of that stuff.

The answer to that original owner would most likely be "tough sh*t", they could probably stand to be more careful when handling such "sensitive" or "valuable" things, and the person who bought it from the person who had no business selling it in the first place got to enjoy a good round of drinks with close friends. As looks like the case with this ersatz Beach Boys disc.  ;D

The wine in the unopened corked bottle is the true collector value of that item...not the bottle, not the wine as poured into a glass. And if what makes that bottle valuable can be easily consumed, like the wine, the original owner is out a bottle of wine, there is nothing to recoup from the guy who bought it and drank it not knowing the origin. Just like the value of, say, a certain legendary unreleased recording lies more in the "unreleased" or legendary status than it does in any way with the media it happens to have been found on.

No point to any of that, just rambling.  :)

No, not All Alone - WIBNTLA -- is it possible the BB did it live around the early 70s / Surfs UP period?

(yeah I figured the time frame out by re-reading the thread)

There are a lot of live recordings...out there.

Anyway, I am glad for this thread....digging around has introduced me to a lot of other Dennis tracks am not familiar with - yay!

I was going to mention the same thing. An in-house Capitol reference disc would carry a pretty good value among collectors. It obviously would normally have a more narrow slice of interested collectors if it didn't have a unique, never-even-booted song on it. But even a standard promo CD sent to radio, reviewers, etc. would carry a potential premium over a standard copy of the CD. If you add in the more unique elements (in-house Capitol item, alternate tracklisting, alternate tracks, documentation showing the vetting process and showing other potential tracks that also got dropped), a few hundred bucks for someone who is really into this stuff is not far-fetched.

I agree it's out of the ordinary for a huge BB fan/collectors to not even know about the song in question, but some very serious fans of bands only pay attention to released material. I've seen it with huge Beatles fans in the past, who were as expert as they come when it came to their released albums, but for whatever reason hadn't heard a note of boots or were interested in unreleased material. I sort of envied them a bit, as the "Anthology" CD's had to have been even more mind-blowing for them!  :lol

Yes.

If you handle the situation correctly, the people who enforce the law against sharing Chateau Lafite Rothschild wouldn't be in the same restaurant as you and would have zero knowledge of you having said Chateau Lafite Rothschild. You would quietly hand out the Chateau Lafite Rothschild to the complete group of strangers, possibly to one stranger anonymously to hand out to everyone else, and then move along as if nothing had happened.

I've also never heard the Chateau Lafite Rothschild police come after any individual in these particular situations. I've done it about five times in my life with material of the exact same status, I had people behind the scenes e-mail me asking me where I got it, but I was never threatened, simply told to try to be more discrete with sharing next time. This is 2013 and these things happen by the dozen on a daily basis. The worst that I've seen happen are people who work for the wine review company get fired for sharing a bit ahead of schedule, and that doesn't apply here.

Since it's an outtake from the Surf's Up album, I'd say "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" (written by Dennis and Stan Shapiro) was recorded around mid-1971. The Beach Boys never did it live.

WIBNTLA, Sound of Free, Follow Me To The Sea, I've Got A Friend, Mona Kani, 10 000 years, Carry Me Home, You Are So Beautiful, All Of My Love and more
+ live songs and proper mixes of songs like San Miguel, Sea Cruise etc and demos such as My Diane and probably many more.

Dennis' legacy has much gold yet to be excavated!

But 'advanced' collectors and those who couldn't get enough knew about and searched down the boots.  It made this hobby of collecting even more expensive!

Quietly and discrete are the operative words, right?

So to be clear, is one of you going to get me some free wine or not?

If a man drops a $100 bill on the ground, looks at it twice, and doesn't pick it up, you remind them they dropped it, and could be up $100 and they walk away, would you leave the $100 on the ground?

Exactly! Circa 1992: Each "Ultra Rare Trax" or "Unsurpassed Masters" disc was minimum $25, cassette dubs for those on a budget were $10 at record shows. Openly sold, openly advertised in collector mags and 'zines...I can't believe folks claiming to be that serious about the Beatles' recorded legacy wouldn't know about those or at the least be interested enough to ask questions or take a preview listen when they'd be at a record show/shop and see a new Beatles title in the bin alongside all the usual stuff.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loz7mvuQqr1qlm83to1_400.jpg)

If an analogy falls down on a messageboard, does it make a sound?

Probably the same sound as opening the twist-off cap on a bottle of Boone's Farm.

That, and he already explained it pretty much exactly as such earlier in this thread (not that he even needs to). He simply collects promos and reference discs, and has been burned before in missing out on something unique.

There is unique, and then there is this, which looks almost unprecedented. Have other run-of-the-mill BB's reference and/or promo CD's for otherwise uneventful albums projects sold for this kind of money?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y4f041Sd8Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y4f041Sd8Q)

There is no appropriate emoticon.

Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Get On Topic)

I think the most sensible thing to do in a situation like this is to calm the hell down! This thread runs the gamut, it's like the SS board in a capsule. From the most articulate and thought-out posts to the beggars and the demanders. The board went down, at the most inopportune time, I'm sure beachboys_fr got a little freaked*. Or, maybe he did get  contacted privately from Meland Melinda and co., and he's doing what he needs to do not get sued off his ass.

*If it was Brian, he'd have tried to burn the reference cd in the fireplace - but Al would have told him it's impossible, he'd tried it before.

This chain of posts may be the best I've seen on this board. Maybe any board.

Wouldn't It Be Nice (If Nothing Has Changed And There's Sadly Not Much To Discuss Anymore *CRIES FOREVER*)

And that's the most exaggerated statement that I've seen on any board.

Post of the day. Post of the week. Post of the month. Post of the year. All stupid.

Spark up another one.

Agreed.

Not especially.

I honestly haven't been following any recent eBay activity for this kind of stuff (e.g. unique promos, rare acetates, one-offs/near one-offs, even master tapes, etc.)

But...I'll say this much: Had the seller specifically noted in their description as to the exact holy-grail rarity that was enclosed within...it would've sold for a helluva lot more than 400 bucks...lol! I've seen wall posters sell for that much!

(And...there would have been more than five bidders) :)

Get mad about it.

Here's one for ya, Runnerdialone:

Ya think the CD that the guy just bought for 400 smackers will still be valuable if WIBNTLA is released in the Made In California box?

I'd be very surprised if the seller really knew what a rarity they had; they obviously were aware it was an in-house CD and therefore a rarity, but had they known exactly what they had there's no way they would have let it slip away. Not that I think they're sad about receiving $400 for a CD they were given for free  

I do. Who's to say it's the same mix, for starters?

I think it's funny that a piece of cheaply made plastic sold for 400 dollars period. sh*t's crazy. I'm not criticizing anyone involved in any way, I understand how these things work, just... man.

Yeah, whose to say?  :hat

Beach Boys TWOTS CD compilation producer, Capitol Records: Cheryl Pawelski
Ebay Seller: Cheryl Pawelski

Sure she knows the original track listing and what a rarity it is!  Wouldn't be a bit surprised if she has more of 'em!

Wasn't it also prepared for the 5.1 Surf's Up DVD-A that was shelved?

The collector scoring such a unique item on Ebay makes my score of a Technics SL-D33 turntable for 10 bucks at the flea market this morning seem pretty insignificant... ;D

Still Nice! HAHAHA!

There's no way this song can live up to the hype so were better off not hearing it  ;D

Yes it's been shelved twice now. Personally I've reached the point where I feel the song cannot possibly hope to live up to all the hype that's been placed on it.

After hearing Adam's version, I think it will live up to the hype. Though it is seldom hyped as a blockbuster, one of a kind classic, just as a superb song and the best of the unreleased BB material.

But apparently not memorable to Al Jardine, I asked him about it and he seemed to have no clue. He asked me three times to repeat the name of the song so he could remember to check it out for the boxset.

It will.

It happens all the time around here.


Who knows if Al's even heard it. Things weren't so linear and involving of all members starting in the late 60s. I'm sure there's several songs each member has no clue about.

SO...  You've personally dealt with this seller and know from this their actual name is Cheryl Pawelski?  ( I'm betting not)
  I doubt she has the time to borrow from her day job to sell all the items to get an 8603 feedback.  

Yeah, it was obvious that Al didn't remember the track. But it was cool that he promised me he would check it out for the boxset (he did confirm that a boxset was being compiled). I really stressed to him that the hardcore fans really wanted to hear it.

Hopefully that counted toward something if it was ever in limbo at all. I mean they have to be aware of it being the most wanted unreleased Beach Boys track among the fanbase, generally speaking. They've mishandled some stuff in the past, but hopefully they know what the right thing to do is, in this case.

I hope so. Al was very cool and we spent a good part of our conversation on the box. Some New tracks leftover from Radio, then I brought up WIBNTLA. He certainly understood I wanted it.

As Lee said in an earlier post, Cheryl's other Ebay auctions are all promos and industry comps. Coincidence? And since she's no longer with Capitol, she's probably got more time on her hands now. Or maybe it's even someone selling for her (friend/relative) using her name, who knows.

yeah, Lee making a supposition, which could be right or wrong.

I seriously doubt she (or he) knew it either. There would've been something in the description, and more likely the subject line itself. This is a seller who obviously deals in this kind of stuff on a serious level.

Though, I'd reckon that *after* it sold for 400 bucks, that same seller probably suspected *something* was up..lol.


(I'm actually a tiny bit envious of the bidders who were able to catch this one. Very impressive!)

Are you saying that Al said there would be TWGMTR outtakes on the box set?

These guys sometimes or often don't pay attention to the minutae the way we do. I find it hilarious usually. Like the 90's interview footage where George, Paul, and Ringo are together and George can't remember what song is on what album. It's hilarious.

Al may well recognize WIBNTLA if he heard it; he may remember the song more than the title, who knows? I remember a fan saying they ran into Al in the 70's to get an autograph, and handed him "Smiley Smile", and Al seemed fascinated as if it was some gem that had never come out or like it was a boot or something. Yet in later years, Al has ofen discussed the album and specifically that it was the "replacement" so to speak for "Smile."

There's an interview from 1985 of Brian promoting the new BB album where he's asked about the "Surf's Up" album and "Take a Load Off Your Feet", and he acts as if he has no clue what the interviewer is talking about. I find that hilarious for some reason, and it also makes me glad we have superfans and archivists to actually pay attention and care about this stuff. :)

This is very, very true. Another example is when some musicians began using teleprompters to help them with lyrics while performing (a certain Mr. Wilson being among them). Some fans are outraged, in that they know every word. Fact is, many musicians don't. Most musicians I've known--obviously on an entirely different level--don't recall the level of detail about their own work that the average poster here does about the Beach Boys'. In fact, I don't recall my own songs, timelines, or recording facts as clearly as I do the Beach Boys' sometimes.

The experiences of being a musician and being a fan are very different. And that's for the best: would you really want musicians to be so self-absorbed as their fans are? To start writing self-referential music to the point of parody, for example? (oh, sorry, mike.)

I kid.

Yup. This was last August mind you. He said they were going to be doing some more vocals on some trackks. He mentioned Waves of Love specifically. Course, things change in time

True, and there is also that bit edited together where they all start telling different versions of the same stories, I've referenced that before whenever someone gets miffed because Brian couldn't remember some part of Smile.  :)

But...consider that apart from George's lapse in memory there, he goes into very specific and very minute detail on various things in the Anthology book, and various interviews before and after, so it's not like his memory was totally shot. Little bits of events like them getting roughed up in the Philippines are brought out in amazing detail, probably because it affected them more than something the fans want to know.

Like anyone else who isn't a rock star, they hold some memories closer and remember them in more detail than others because the memories may be more cherished or important to them than, say, memories of the song "Take A Load Off Your Feet" might be to a BB's fan.  ;D

Link seems to be gone, can someone please post it again?

Didn't someone tell a story about Al being absorbed by the memory of an obnoxious goat from the Pet Sounds photo shoot?  Arguably the best album in the rock era, and Al's focus is on the goat.

That's not to make fun of him, just to say that memory is a funny thing.  Most of us don't remember the mundane details of our work, but if we're repeatedly attacked by an animal, even in a somehwat harmless way, it stays with us.

What else is there to say about Pet Sounds anymore, though? I'm basically tired of hearing about it at this point, I can't imagine how Al or anyone else feels when the billionth question about the Pet Sounds title or cover or whatever comes up.

If I was on a record like Pet Sounds I'd never want to hear the end of it.

.

I made Pet Sounds, of course I do.

"The theremin was Carl's idea"

Doesn't BRI browse this board regularly?

So we've been informed. But it doesn't seem like anyone is up to any shenanigans they would care about.

More's the pity, really ...

Oh most definitely yes. I tell you true, when the board went down for a bit I thought that had something to do with it. The timing was nuts.

I don't know if you're being facetious but if you're not, who at BRI would be doing that? I want that job!

Not being facetious in the least.

I don't think this analogy works.  Wine is a finite commodity - sharing a bottle of wine means that the owner gets to drink less of it. Sharing music doesn't reduce the owner's listening experience one bit. The only difference is that the owner doesn't get the egotistical satisfaction of knowing he is the only one, or one of an elite, to have this item. Let's take another example. Suppose I had discovered the cure for cancer. Would it be incredibly selfish to keep it just for myself? The answer is surely yes.

The owner of this item may have the legal right not to share but maybe at some time in the future there will be someone who has something he wants and also refuses to help. If I had this item I would be only too happy to share freely (except perhaps with those whom I knew wouldn't do likewise for me!). Promos are marked 'not for sale' as has already been pointed out and I can understand anyone being reluctant to do something that might get them into trouble. But 'not for sale' doesn't include giving away, does it?

Not sharing something slated to be released on a boxed set is not like not sharing the cure for cancer.

I really do think we should leave beachboys_fr in peace. Guy comes here looking for verification of a track and gets vilified for not sharing it before he's had chance to weigh up the risks of whether to share or not.  It's his disc, he paid for it, he can do what he likes.  If he'd said nothing we'd be none the wiser.

Starting to sound like a lot of "this guy can't be serious because he won't share with me and I'm the world's bestest Beach Boys fan…"

This just makes me all the more determined not to mention my Lotto win here…

Very well said.  Anyone who considers the value of an obscure Beach Boys track to a cancer cure needs to re-assess their priorities.

Absolutely. Were I to get access to something like that, the very last thing I would do is share it publicly in a way that could be traced back directly to me. Even were there no legal action, it would make it much less likely that I'd ever get any future access to such material.

Could have thought a bit harder before writing that really couldn't you...

exactly

Yeah, 16 pages of whining isn't that good a look. If I was Beachboysfr I'd go drive by each and every one of our houses at 100 mph, playing it at a respectable volume. With the window open a crack.

Hey man, we don't know -- maybe "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again" is the cure for cancer!

Are you saying beachboys_fr has the cure for cancer and he isn't sharing that either??!?!?!? The bastard!!!


Absolutely.


Now I really must try to find your house... :wink

Still here...

OF COURSE the cure for cancer is far more important than one  unreleased song. However, selfishness is selfishness - just a matter of degree.

BeachBoys_fr is one of the biggest BB collectors in the world.
Or at least so it seemed when we were in touch back in the 90's!

Glad you haven't been scared away. Any more thoughts regarding this track?

 ::)

Hmm…

Could have thought a bit harder before writing that really couldn't you...

Not seeing any signs of selfishness from our French friend…

The only reason I wrote what I did was that I was comparing something of a limited quantity - like the wine analogy - and something that could be shared without affecting the owner's benefit from the item.  I'll put it in less emotive terms. A youth serum that could make you appear ten years younger. Such an item isn't essential - but very desirable for many people. In limited quantities therefore, understandable that an owner wouldn't want to share. But  someone who had the formula could afford to share, either for financial gain or more laudably for less mean spirited reasons.

I just wish they would release the item and any other unreleased gems. It does no-one any good lying in a vault and as time goes by, the number of those who know or care about it diminishes.

I think I have a better analogy...

It's almost like someone having a rare recording that they could share by sending PMs to every single person on this board but they should feel no obligation to do so.

Sorry, it was not me! I'm collecting CDs since June 2001. The first part of your post is true, however.

... not to mention the 300+ PM's he probably received by now...

I'm genuinely curious how many he got.  :lol

About 30 and I've tried to provide a reply to each of them, even briefly.

Haven't heard the song yet (not in cover form either).

In theory, I might not like it at all.

But well, on the other hand...

It's a kind of "la-la-la-la-la…" with the words "wouldn't it be nice to live again" in there somewhere, maybe a "da-da-da-da…" or two or three… and some musical bits.  I'd share it but you know how it is…


;D

The track will come out in time.....

Well said Andrew -- and based on my personal experiences, 100% true.  And John, I agree with you as well.

And now were back to calling a nice gentleman who is very knowledgeable about Beach Boys promo CDs "egotistical" and "selfish" if he doesn't share...

I apologise unreservedly to the nice gentleman if he isn't egotistical or selfish! I just have had bad experiences of some people who like to gloat about things they have got that others haven't.  I can quite understand those who are reluctant to share because they are concerned about the consequences to themselves or to someone else but if there is anything illegal here it seems to be the acquisition of something that should not have been sold in the first place. I have to admit openly that had I known that this item was available I'd have put in a bid but I also admit I'd have passed on copies to my friends. If that seemed very unwise then I would have mentioned it to no-one.

I hope that it does come out in time but in time for what? It's already too late for some of those who would have liked to have heard it.

I think we should leave things as they are. A retrospective box set is set to be released in 2013 after all.

Now, if it doesn't include WIBNTLA.... By all means circulate the track, peferably as a flac file.

The entitlement mentality of this board is sickening, and a sad reflection on society as a whole.

Who gives a flying crap if he shares it or not?  If we were true fans, we would have known about the auction and bid on it ourselves.  He doesn't owe us anything.  Talk about selfish... the people who are like "Well he's selfish if he doesn't share it"  are the most selfish of all.  He won an item fair and square, came here to verify the authenticity of it.  He is under absolutely zero obligation to share it with you.

Of course, should he decide he wants to share it, I want in on the action too...

Or, it means that the owner has one less bottle to sell.


Correct.  The rarity of the item gives the item a much higher financial value.  If you've got the only one, it's worth much more. (Economics 101)


Suppose you won $50,000 in the lottery.  Would it be incredibly selfish to keep the money just for yourself?  Heck, why not just hand it over to some strangers on a message board.


May have the legal right not to share?  The owner definitely has every right not to share.


That is life.  If you want something bad enough, you try to find one, and if you're lucky enough to find one for sale, you pay what the seller is asking.  If you don't find one, life goes on.


Really? 

You say being a true fan entails bidding for a promo CD from a very recent comp. I beg to differ.

The sale was not very public in any way (other members, including myself, had not been aware of the auction) and even amongst Beach Boys fans there are very few who actually haunt e-bay and the like in order to pounce given the unlikely scenario of an unreleased track showing up; it's appearance most likely accidental. Furthermore I will bear down upon your statement on the grounds that there was actually another fan who did bid for the CD yet was unwilling to spend more than 400 USD for the sake of a single track.

After all, beachboys_fr did not know about this track, so sharing the file electronically while keeping the phyrical promo CD (which was his original intention) will be of no consequence for him. He will still have the promo CD he desired for the collection and we would all be hearing WIBNTLA.

On the other hand he can use it as leverage against Capitol who will probably attempt to dissuade the leak by bribing him with signed SMiLE surfboards and 1 year free supply of Pacifico.

100% agree. I almost hope beachboys_fr doesn't share the track just because of some of the comments above. The guy paid $$$ for this CD and I was flabbergasted that he even shared interest in letting other people hear it....yet some of you feel like you're owed this track? Get real.

Agreed with rab, the badgering for this track is getting lame. Its one BBs outtake for crying out loud and calling a guy "selfish" just because he has it is not cool.

Since a few folks have had fun with my wine analogy, now that I've slept on it a day, I'd like to amend it...

I said if you were a stranger sitting across the room, I probably wouldn't share a glass of the 2000 Lafite.  But let's say you came across the room, introduced yourself politely, engaged me in conversation about your appreciation for fine wines, and impressed me with your knowledge.  I might be inclined to pour you a glass, and even if I didn't, I might invite you to my next wine tasting so that I could get to know you better.

Let's say you came across the room, and demanded a glass, because you like French Bordeaux, and I obviously have enough to share.  Your chances of getting a glass are nil.

Lee

For the first time I am in total agreement with you. ;) No one is entitled to anything. Considering he paid $400 for essentially one song and to own a reference CD, I think it only right that we pay him $400 each to own a lossless file of WIBNTLA. Any takers? Didn't think so.

guess we have learned something here. If I had a rarity I wanted to share...

1) would not blab it on the board

2) would pm a few here and burn about 10 Cds and send them out.

3) Nature would do the rest

beachboys_fr if you just read my post if your comfortable with that go for it!

For a board that is monitored such as this one, yea announcing & sharing here is not a smart thing, legally speaking.

This is silliness

If he shares the track with us, he will still have the collectors item the promo CD is. He loses nothing by sharing the track.


TWOTS promo CD      = 400 USD
WIBNTLA                 ≠ 400 USD


I repeat: he loses NOTHING sharing that track. I can hardly see why this is an issue and now, by coming back to reply but not sharing and after having disclosed to everyone here that he has the track, he decides to not share? Uhm yes this is not really a very credible road of decision making. Ofc if he worries about legal matters then it is perfectly understandable that he does as he wants to.

Anyway this is just my opinion on the matter and I will hold my peace until something of substance and less frustration shows up...

In response to Lost Art, if I won $50000 in a lottery and decided to keep it, it is the same as if I had a bottle of Lafite Rothschild and decided to drink all of it or sell it. Giving some away diminishes the amount I have left. But if I have a song, copying and giving away costs me virtually nothing. I got loads of criticism for likening to someone having the cure for cancer and keeping it to themselves. Of course I did not mean that Dennis' song is as important as the cure for cancer but the principle remains the same. If any of us has something they know is valuable to others and yet doesn't share it, whilst that is undoubtedly their right, it is not a generous attitude to take although if they are motivated by a wish to avoid bad consequences for themselves or others the situation is of course different.

The moniker 'Lost Art' is ironic really. I don't like the idea of lost art - I would rather we all get the benefit of it. I don't care that I don't own the original folio of Shakespeare or the manuscript of Beethoven's 9th Symphony or the Mona Lisa. I just want these things to be available for everyone.

And I agree entirely with the above post.  But I would actually be prepared to pay $400 for Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again if it was officially released as a special collector's item for this price and if this was the only way I could get it, I'd pay up.

No it really isn't, you goon. I don't think any of us hearing an mp3 will literally save millions of lives around the planet.

I mean, even the bottle of plonk analogy is better than that. He paid $400 for a physical object, with an appeal to a few knowledgeable folk. No-one dies needlessly as a result of having not heard a Beach Boys outtake. If you insist on using that analogy, you're really showing that you either don't know or care about the implications of what you're saying. Which, seeing as you're obviously so desperate for this track, is not a good look. Calm yourself.

The fact that said promo CD contains a much fantasized-about, still unreleased track by Dennis Wilson highly contributes to its monetary value - doesn't it? Thus, by sharing WIBNTLA and making it somewhat available, Monsieur Collector would indeed lose something. N'est-ce pas?

Only if he intended on selling it in the future. Which is none of our business.

Should he get sued by the RIAA or BRI, it will cost him plenty. Besides, he did not post here to share the track, just to verify that he had the real thing. It is very presumptuous of you to think anything else. I don't care if it is your opinion or a point of fact, it is not for you or I suppose anything with beachboys_fr or his track.

I never said it was. Of course it isn't.
Doesn't change the fact that openly sharing WIBNTLA might diminish his CD's value (to BBs collectors & aficionados).

Tiresome. Some good folks here are casting themselves in a jealous light. Ain't becoming, and this, note, from someone who himself has been not becoming in the past.

Meh. He probably won't share it. Which is his right. I would probably be too scared of law suits to share it too. I have resigned myself to wait for it's (hopefully) imminent release on MiC.

Hypehat - I have ALREADY and REPEATEDLY explained that I am not equating the value of Dennis' song to the cure for cancer.

And I agree that the financial value of Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again would be less if more had it. But there is more to life than money. And a time is coming when few will have heard of it and even fewer will care.

People are acting like spoiled little brats.  "Beachboysfr gets to hear something awesome and rare and I don't, wahhhhh!!!"   Tough sh*t.   He paid a boatload of money for it, you didn't.  Suck it up, buttercup.

Then DON'T SAY IT'S LIKE HIDING THE CURE FOR CANCER. Jesus.

No it isn't. Nobody is harmed by a song not being shared.

There are many, many good reasons why beachboys_fr might not have shared the track:
S/he might not actually have it and just have been winding us up.
S/he might be put off by the horribly rude attitude of many of the posters here.
S/he might have secretly shared it with two or three people, who might then be sharing it with others so the initial point of origin might not be so obvious
S/he might have been contacted by someone saying "I have a copy of Cal. Feeling 74 (or Surf's Up Part 2 or insert holy grail here) which I will share with you if you share the track only with me."
S/he might have had a cease and desist notice from BRI
S/he might just have not come back to the board yet -- not everyone spends their lives on Beach Boys boards.
S/he may not know how to rip CDs

Or any of a thousand other reasons.
There is no need whatsoever for the horrible behaviour over a few minutes of music that we'll almost certainly hear within a few months anyway. Remind me not to mention on here if I ever get any music anone might want to hear...

  Taking both at once:  
Obviously, most of the folks here are not "collectors" so much as fans of the BBs. Those of us who do collect, know there is a value to every item we buy, even tho that value is obviously not appreciated the same by the non-collectors. Whether we get something for 50 cents or $5000, if something uniquely rare is included, it's ours. NOT the "joint" property of everyone that wants it.
 I don't have WIBNTLA, but I have others which I treasure just as much. I've shared some things in the past, because I wanted to. With the exception of a few, there were no thank yous, no well dones. And while not why I've done it, Where's the incentive in that?  Fortunately it's not all that imprtant to me, as owning them makes me happy.
 But the incessant clamoring, the "you have it, you should give it to me because I want it and it won't cost you anything more is completely amiss". We have them because we've spent our time finding them and PAYING for them.  I kndof like the DR's idea that those who want the track should pay for it. ( tho that would potentially mire BBs_Fr in a world of hurt)  
which leads to the "blabbing":  Not being a lawyer, I can't speak to the legal side, but he bought an item thru Ebay, and he is now the "legal" owner of said item. I don't believe that gives him ownership of the copyright, nor the legal right to distribute that item. But mentioning that he has it?  Of course he can. I don't believe there  can be any repercussions from a legal purchase, other than possibly to the seller.  Anyone can talk about any track they own, right?  

This isn't about the financial value, whether anyone's heard it (or is going to), whether it's on MIC or whether it's a cure for cancer though.

It's about beachboys_fr doing what he likes with what is his,w hat he's paid for and is quickly becoming no-one else's business.

I propose the thread gets closed before someone paints themselves into a corner for ever.

I think what you meant to say was... cease to resist?

(^-^)

Well, it's beachboys_fr who came to this board to discuss the track in the first place. It's only natural it's being anatomised among folk like us. ;) Everybody just chillax for a second.
I haven't asked for it and I will continue not to. Either he decides to share it or not. Either way it fine by me. I like mysteries to remain mysteries (at least for a while). Same f*cking problem with the Star Wars prequels. :P

Hypehat:

I wrote: "Suppose I had discovered the cure for cancer. Would it be incredibly selfish to keep it just for myself? The answer is surely yes. " I did not suggest that the value of these items was in any way comparable.

The bottom line here is of course copyright. An item that was supposed to be not for sale shouldn't have been sold but playing this for someone is surely not illegal. Copying it however would be. A pity that there is no way we could just hear it without being able to own it.

But this is getting incredibly petty so I'm not bothering with this subject any more.

He was lurking here when I wrote my last post. So beachboy fr may still be contemplating sharing the track with the board.

Considering he is not in the USA he is very well insulated from the legal issue. International lawsuits are extremely costly and this track is not worth anybodys time and effort to stave off a leak.

beachboy fr I still hope you might take the advice in my post. The chances that you might even only get and cease and desist letter are slim to none. I would share the file and I live in the USA.

Then why did you make the observation?

That is exactly what we are saying, as well. He shouldn't be pestered to share. He came here for verification, because supposedly we know our sh*t. I bet he had no idea what he was about experience by doing so.

(http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/admiral_ackbar_says_its_a_trap.jpg)

 ;D

The phrase 'stop digging' springs to mind.

Beachboys_fr should PM the track around in a couple of weeks and post on the board that he has decided not to share it. When it leaks, people can only assume he was the source, but legally they can't do a thing.

They couldn't, if you hadn't just posted that   :lol

"should"?

Yes, as in it's his moral duty/obligation.

This is it in a nutshell. I'm not a lawyer myself, nor an expert, but having waded into the shallow waters of the music business and copyright/publishing through previous jobs, I think this is exactly the case.

Waaayyyy back on page 13 or whatever, I mentioned some related issues about copyrights and the digital media age, and quite honestly even the record companies haven't quite squared it all up into something cohesive, and I believe many of the legal precedents are still referred back to the court's decision in the Sony Betamax case, which by now is three or four decades old and concerned consumers having access to equipment to make high-quality copies of copyrighted materials like movies and TV shows.

I'll agree 100% to what bgas says here about "ownership" and copyrights. The buyer of such an item, once the payment has cleared and delivery taken on the item, is now the legal owner of that item. Period. Which means he can play it for anyone he/she chooses, and unless the specific item itself had been reported as stolen and is on file as such, no one can come back and claim ownership of that physical item. *However* as far as I know, that legal ownership does not transfer to usage and copyright issues, which means anything owned by a publisher or under a copyright contained on that item cannot be sold (as in posted on iTunes for sale or included on a commercial release)-broadcast-distributed-etc. without written consent (that crap they read after sports telecasts on TV).

I wouldn't offer advice that others more knowledgeable in this pursuit have already offered, but if such a thing should happen again perhaps not putting out the word in public would be a plan of action to consider.

Consider this too:

Al Kooper had been given a Fender guitar by Jimi Hendrix. After Hendrix died, Kooper had loads of trouble come his way because it was known that he had one of Jimi's guitars. From being hounded and chased by people wanting to buy it, to having various places he lived broken into and ransacked by people looking to steal the Hendrix guitar, to other assorted hassles, if I recall he said it felt like the guitar had a curse on it. And it was apparently an experience shared by others who had been given guitars by Jimi and who told people they owned other guitars Hendrix had given away. I read between the lines to think Al Kooper might have wished he had kept news of his gifted guitar more private, because when word spread that he owned it, all hell broke loose.

My thoughts exactly.

So, you're telling me that you'd give your $50,000 lottery winnings away to strangers on a message board?  Is your real name Mother Teresa?

As for my moniker, the term 'lost art' is a term used to describe a once valued art or skill that is not practiced much anymore, such as 4-track analog recording as was done in the '60s.  And since my first name happens to be Art, and I'm old enough to have listened to the Beach Boys when their songs were on the radio in the early '60s, I thought it fitting to adapt LostArt as my moniker ('cause they don't make 'em like me anymore).  ;)

His moral duty? Come off it! It's not like he bought Dennis' bones on ebay, is it?

You are joking of course.

:brow You're joking, right?

This obsession with the song is getting weird. Its not like beachboys fr. has the completed 1967 Smile album, its ONE song.  

If I was in France I wouldnt be too worried about sharing a file like this.

what? will BRI email him a C&D order?? :lol

It's a microcosm of Smile, if you think about it.

I have no problem with people wanting to hear it like you do, its just the obsessed posting by some people here saying its "better than surf's up" or the "duty of the owner" to share that is putting me off.

Totally agree. The sun won't rise and fall depending on whether he shares or not. If he does, I'll be grateful. If he doesn't, I'll wait for MiC. Simples.

Weirdly, those posts aren't showing up in the thread, at least for me -- but they are showing up if I click on your username. How odd...

Ive tried to post some level headed  suggestions in the midst of the confusion and paranoia

he was here this morning so maybe something good will come about.

What is "Smile"?

 :thud










 :beer

 :lol

You have to admit, how cool is this guy? Drops $400 on a promo cd, comes to the forums and enlightens us with a review of an elusive, infamous unreleased track, answers everyone's PMs, and pretty much ignores the petty arguments and debates. Cheers!

Lots more than one song I can help you get it ;)

I was just thinking how the various reactions on this thread would appear miniscule in comparison to someone going on a Beatles forum announcing they had just bought an EMI reference CD on Ebay that had something called "Carnival Of Light" on the tracklisting.  

Good question.... :lol :lol :lol

I agree, but I think we're assuming that we're going to hear this track on an official boxset in a few months...so there's no reason to go crazy over it.

In reply to Lost Art - there is an obvious difference between giving away something that leaves you with less or nothing or sharing something that leaves you with the item you originally had.

All I hear in this thread is a whole lot of "wine whine wine whine wine whine I'm a little bitch".

For those of you who doubt the ability of BRI to make themselves known in cases like this, the folks who compiled Get the Boot and Secret Smile were sent cease and desist letters. They do have ways of finding the source of a leak because they read these forums. Mr. beachboys_fr seems like a pretty decent guy. It's a wonder he hasn't laid waste to you idiots who are whining like a bunch falsely entitled, petulant children over this. He purchased the CD with his own money. It's his prerogative to do with it as he wishes. If that means he doesn't want to share what's on it, guess what? HIS DECISION. Deal with it. It's not his "moral duty/obligation", whatever the f*** that is. Seriously?

Seriously. Cool down and stop pestering the guy.

I think that this might be my favourite post of all time.

The guy paid $400 for it, it's his, he has no obligation to share it with anyone if he doesn't wish to. The sense of entitlement of some people on here is shocking.

Yes, its the best post ive ever read!

beachboys_fr - you are the man!!!  :)

It's easy to defend his decision to hoard the song with the possibility we will get it on the MIC box, if we don't..well what do we do then  :lol

It'd be really funny if he didn't have it, 19 pages of people getting upset over nothing.

Blame Dennis for choosing not to release it between 1971 and 1983 and the rest of the group for not releasing it since?

Plus, everyone whining that BBFR stands to lose nothing by sharing the track overlooked something in AGD's post way, way earlier in this thread - the CD in question that contains the track is allegedly watermarked. Which means BRI/Capitol/whoever CAN trace the file back in this case. Watermarking is pretty sophisticated digital stuff these days: you can't hear it on the track with the naked ear, but those who know how to analyse and process the track in the right way can instantly identify where it came from and through whose hands it passed on the way (well... the originator of the leak, at least).

Not that they need to do that in this case, of course, because if WIBNTLA gets out there now, there really is only one place it could come from, in all probability. If I had something like WIBNTLA on a watermarked CD, you wouldn't catch me putting it out for love nor money. BBFR is supposed to put her/his livelihood, financial security and the possible security of her/his family (if s/he has one) on the line for a coupla zweebs on a message board, who won't think twice to help her/him when the shi-ite hits the fan? I don't think so... and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do that either. Oh, and someone typing on the same board 'Oh, if you're in France, you don't need to worry about that. They can't get you there' wouldn't exactly reassure me to the point where I would do it, either...!

Nobody's is obliged to do anything of this sort, morally or otherwise. Lose the sense of entitlement, guys, and chill. It'll be out soon enough anyways, I reckon...

If it's as good as it rumored to be it makes me wonder why Dennis didn't put it on CATP instead of that clunker "Make it Good"?

They wouldn't watermark an inhouse cd, they only do that for promos intended to be send out to the media. This is a work in progress cd-r!

Yeah, but what if the unthinkable happened and some dastardly villain leaked an inhouse promo?! Why, it doesn't even bear thinking about. Besides, no one working at a label ever leaked an album.

I say again this file is not worth spending a small fortune on in legal fees

cease and desist letters are cheap. But once Pandoras box is open good luck!


a voice of reason...rational tbought tells you that unauthorized stuff happens. will happen in future and most everyone hear would also gladly purchase said track along with stuff they dont need.

You all know, if it really is as good as people say, it will likely appear on the boxed set.

I think the panic comes from a lack of faith* that those who are compiling the box set think it's as good as people say. We know Alan Boyd believes it to be since he has touted it here and there, but I don't think he is involved in MiC. Or am I wrong?

*I personally am pretty confident (WIBN)TLA will be on the box set.

It's been a fun thread to follow but I highly doubt he will share the track. Besides, he has stated it's not a clean, mastered mix so I am happy to wait. Hearing horrible bootlegs of Bamboo certainly lessened the excitement for me when the commercial release happened. Can you imagine the excitement if the Smile boots hadn't been leaked and then we got the Smile Sessions.

That said, it is ridiculous that it hasn't been released.

If BRI or whoever do follow the board,, they can get an indication of the potential commercial by including this track on a boxset.

The ironic thing is that we most likely would've had it on that Surf's Up DVD-A had the format not died. That is, in that particular case, the good intent and full execution were there and very tangible. It wasn't simple politics or lack of interest in that instance.

I don't think the concern has anything to do with whether the compilers think it's good.  People have different opinions, but surely they'll deem it more appealing than cr*p like Our Team, which made the first box set.

The issue  is whether the "certain party" that Andrew Doe keeps referring to will veto its inclusion for whatever bizarre reason.  According to him, WIBNTLA was vetoed before.  So it's certainly possible that it will be again..

Ding Dang Brian!!  He keeps vetoing the inclusion of WIBNTLA so as not to have his legacy overshadowed by his brother!

Maybe I'm wrong on this as I have a terrrible memory but  didn't he say on another thread that it was Mike?

I think Al Jardine keeps vetoing WIBNTLA because he discovered a new psychedelic and superb magical version of Loop de Loop with Waves of Love as the 2nd movement and he's been recording overdubs in the last 10 years, and because he can't finish it for every release WIBNTLA was slated to appear, he keep vetoing saying this track only will come out if his new Loop de Loop can be released together in the same package.

I've been reading this whole tread. I'm happy to listen Adam's version until the official version come out.
I think it's cool if beachboys_fr bought this incredible cd-r promo with this track. But telling others about it...we're fans that really want to have and listen this legendary track (we're waiting so much, since 2000 or even before) and it's clear that he'll receive many requests to share this. If he share it or not it's his decision and we have to respect the guy, but he must know that we'll keeping ask to listen this song.
If I can have a listen before the official release it will be great, but I could live until now and haven't listened this sing, and I can live more without it and wait for MIC to finnaly hear it.

Best... post..... EVER.

What is "Pet Sounds"?

Dude, it's over. Fail.

I once heard an excerpt on the phone during my book interviews. It's great early seventies Dennis and Beach Boys.

Sharing this miraculous track could resurrect Mrs T.

I therefore implore BBs_fr to keep it under wraps.

Who was on the other line?

:lol

Not second best post, huh?

just damn.

That explains why it's been released so many times before in the last forty-two years.

The Beach Boys faire mon fond très humide. J'aime beaucoup les hommes. Avez-vous déjà touché les parties génitales de Bruce?  ???

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/42f29e301bc4e4d55f1f98590e2bbed0/tumblr_mhv0ieQr8M1qhtzooo4_250.gif)

At this stage it won't be a miracle having WIBNTLA on the box set, it'll be even having the box set released

This is urgent and key

I got President Obama on the phone as I type, this song could give George W. Bush a third term.

I think I have this boxed set…

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Made-in-California-/380597075949?pt=UK_CDsDVDs_CDs_CDs_GL&hash=item589d5a7fed



 ::)

Who is Mrs T?

I just bought it and I'm not sharing  ;D

Imagine I bring a bottle of wine to a restaurant......

هناك شيء خاطئ وضوح معك.

You are correct that it was Mike who vetoed the track from TWOTS. He said it was a downer.

Ugh... Why does Mike act like a stereotype of himself. ::)

Mr T's wife.

… and former Prime Minister.

I'm guessing Carry Me Home won't be on the box set then… though I've had a theory rattling round in my head that these two tracks could be thematically complementary…

Mr. T's butch wife.

You've just ended up on a list.

Mike is the worst but boy can he sing

 As the old saying goes, 'those that live in glass houses should not throw stones'.

Maybe Beach Boys_fr will buy this for us and then send us all copies.  If so, I'm first in line.

Glad he let the feel-good, fun, fun, fun 'Til I Die stay on there.

A friend just put it perfectly in saying, "It's not like the album is titled after the song about the president getting killed." I'll grant you that it would've been a bit of an odd inclusion on such a package, but still, I don't think it would've hurt anything by being on there.

Regardless, the mastering on the TWOTS album is total ass, if I recall correctly, and "Live Again" surely would've suffered the same fate. I'm kind of glad that we're getting it on a box set of rarities in 2013 instead, as the folks who run the Beach Boys show have seemingly wised up to an extent on not having insanely loud masters for new releases.

The guy paid $400 for something about to be a lot less valuable come August. Reminds me of when I paid $100 for the original 'Stack O Tracks' album. The internet brought forth many more copies and it isn't so rare or valuable.

I don't think so.  His copy of the song will always be unique.  It's not mastered and nobody except the compilers know which mix it is.  That goes for the rest of the promo as well.

It's probably more about personal value to him. He already noted that he wasn't even aware, and thus, didn't buy it for the song in question. Furthermore, he also said it was primarily about filling a hole in his collection, not necessarily resale or investment.

Beyond that, it's still something that while maybe not exactly a "one-off," is probably pretty darned close to a one-off. I did some liner notes and annotations for a few CDs on a small label, and IIRC, the number of reference check discs made were no more than five for each title. That, in itself, could put it in the 400 dollar range (especially considering the band in question here). I've seen actual proper promos go for that much, and this is far more unique (IMHO).

Just sayin'.  :)

Well Melinda is around to fight that battle, Dennis isn't here to have his say

fair enough.

Carry Me Home should be on the box set as well as California Slide. .
No question in my mind...   ;D

You must not read many posts.

Same with you.  Why was that your "favourite post of all time"?  Just curious.  I guess I don't understand.