The Smiley Smile Message Board

I can't believe I started one of these.  ::)

I get to look back and laugh.

wish that I knew what I know now a when I was younger /it was six years ago - The faces

Since you mentioned them earlier in your post, I do believe that "OK Compuer" by Radiohead will hold up for many years to come.

And speaking of Nirvana, alongside "Nevermind", I think that "In Utero" and "Unplugged Live in New York" are records that will stand the test of time.

I'm sure you disagree and I'm not looking to change anyone's mind.  Just my two cents!

I actually prefer Incesticide to In Utero; I know it was a compilation of pre-Nevermind material, but IMHO it has better, more creative songs (albeit with truly dodgy drumming in parts)

Oh good, another chance to listen to rants against music. Let's celebrate those golden oldies till we die.

(Sarcasm ends now)

There is PLENTY of very good music out there. Feel free to keep judging the entirety of music based on what you hear and don't like if you want, feel free to keep listening to the same "classics" forever--many of them are great, after all. But you're missing out.

Luther, do you have any recommendations?

I find myself agreeing with the above, unfortunately.  Although my classics end with the punk/new wave era of the late '70s.  It's all pretty much been there/done that.  And the musicianship is just terrible.  It amazes me when I see young white rock bands on the late night talk shows.  Who signs these people?  They're just so bad.  It's not like anyone buys their music, either.  Or even bothers downloading it, for that matter.  I'm not sure if it's the bands, or the industry that signs up these acts.  I'd like to hear some good musicians who haven't been able to get a contract.  Is there some really great unheard music out there? 

Glad to recommend some favorites. Obviously, everyone has his or her own tastes, but I think anyone who says he or she doesn't like anything must just not be listening to enough new music. Perhaps you'd like something from the below. If you have a specific kind of music you like, I can be more specific.

Beachwood Sparks (think country-era Byrds; derivative but nice)
Beck, especially Mutations, Midnite Vultures and Sea Change
Belle & Sebastian -- particularly the past few albums, on which the production value has increased a lot. (Many people like the earlier stuff more...I don't)
Delgados - especially the Great Eastern, but it is all great
Bob Dylan's albums this decade
Fiery Furnaces, especially Blueberry Boat, EP and Rehearsing My Choir
Flaming Lips, particularly Soft Bulletin and Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots
Half-Handed Cloud - if you can get over Christian themes, the music is ridiculously quirky, fun, etc (I am not a christian and i love it)
Jenny Lewis and the Watson Twins - Rabbit Fur Coat, nice country-pop album
Lhasa - beautiful voice, various ethnic influences to her seductive pop
Mountain Goats' Get Lonely, for introspective, sad music.
My Latest Novel - Wolves
Neutral Milk Hotel - In An Aeroplane Over the Sea
Joanna Newsom, Ys. Strings by VDP, quirky voice, brilliant lyrics
Of Montreal, especially everything from the Gay Parade onward
Bill Ricchini - Melodic pop, especially Tonight I Burn Brightly
Rogue Wave - both albums are very good; classic-sounding pop
The Vestals - broke up, but did two nice albums of Beatles meets Radiohead. Go figure.
Voxtrot - they have 2 EPs and an extended single so far, with an album due this spring
Tom Waits - can't go wrong from swordfishtrombones on

 :'( I was so lame.

Ok, buddy.....I am gonna check some of this stuff out, seriously....thanks for the info

As I said, I would never expect anyone to agree with me on every point, and I'm sure I left some things out that I would include if I thought it through. (I would also include two Radiohead albums--OK Computer and Kid A--but your points was clear on them...)

Anyway, there is a ton of music out there. Most of it is terrible. A lot is OK. A little is extremely good. Do a little digging, don't sit back and wait to see what the major labels are going to toss your way, because that is almost exclusively sh*t.

Oh, and speaking of Tom waits is he just a more sarodnic, less melodic version of Randy Newman?

By the way, regarding this...it is hard for anyone making decent music to do that. Major labels aren't generally paying for people to record that way because the popular "flavors" are mostly electronic, such as pop and hip hop. The people who would be interested in recording that way can't afford it, because no major label will pay for it and most smaller labels just dont' have the resources. So until there is a sea change, you might be out of luck there.

Oh, no. Not at all. In fact, I'd say he is the better melodicist. He's just a terrible singer. But listen to his album Alice, or the second disc of his 2006 3-disc set, for examples of his beautiful melodies.

I'd say he's a cross between Captain Beefheart and Tin Pan Alley songwriters.

.

.

Coming from a fan of a lot of Randy Newman's early albums, I think Tom Waits is miles beyond Newman.  I think Waits' humor is much more cutting and not as cutesy as Newman's can be at times.  Again, I am a big Newman fan, Sail Away is one of the my all time favorite albums, but I don't think he holds a candle to Tom Waits.

Luther, I don't disagree with you often and I must say that your list of newer stuff to check out is to die for especially The Beachwood Sparks, but I have to disagree on Waits' voice.  I don't think he is a terrible singer at all.  As a matter of fact, I think he is a brilliant singer!  His voice is so expressive and it cuts me to the core every time.  The way he can shift into different characters with ease takes great comand of the instrument.  Much more than any of the "golden voiced" pop stars being spoon fed to us all.  I guess I know what you meant though.  That his voice isn't pleasent to most and certainly not like anything else in popular music nowadays, but I just can't support calling him a terrible singer.

I think you've worked out what I meant. He is terrible if one uses a traditional definition of a good voice. He misses notes and his timbre is anything but clear. That said, he is (as you said) as expressive as anyone. Believe me, I meant him no disrespect.

(By the way, I love Newman, too. But he's no Waits.)

I didn't really think you meant any disrespect as I think we have both chimed in elswhere as to how great Waits is.  I guess I just take exception when people say that people like Waits and Dylan are "terrible" when truth be told, they both really are great singers even without lovely smooth as silk voices.

Okay, this

grandmother, sweater....perhaps its obsessive to correct ones obvious mistakes

Listen to what you like, man...

well, that just about wraps this one up in a neat little package.

 With the advent of my space there are plenty of opportunities to hear and appreciate many exciting new groups. As far as most of the "signed" artists, many are just guided as sequels (sound alikes) to some extent, yet even know the music biz is freeing up a little. Love Norah Jones and her new album.

There has been new music?? To each his own, but when I listen
 to whiny spoiled brats try to act angry about something, I just turn it off. I used to love Radiohead, but now I lay a large burden of responsibility on thom Yorke for inspiring more whiny half-wits with guitars than the world needs. I'm not even going to go into the sorry state of the world of rap nowadays. There are good bands out there, but after being such a huge Beach Boys fan everything I hear just doesn't compare.
I love early 80's music though. I guess that's not new. 

That's one genre (rap) and one vocal style. There is a lot more out there. Over-generalizing and complaining doesn't do anything but let a person bask in his misery (kind of like a Thom Yorke-ish whiny half-wit, now that I think about it). A person can give up and die or keep listening for something new and exciting.

I must defend myself....I was generalizing, but where i live the only 2 radio stations that play anything worth hearing is the college staions, and they are not on 24/7. The other stations play "alternative" as if that makes any sense... the classic rock station that plays the same songs on into infinite, and the rap staion. They took the oldies off the air and replaced it with "soft rock.." VH1? MTV? Maybe Vh1 classic is good. If I hear a song from 1979 for the first time it becomes new to me. I don't have satellite radio, but i have heard it and nothing blows me away on there except new wave sometimes. It seems to me that so many commercial bands sing like they are whining, or they sound like they are squeezing one through on the crapper as they lay down their vocals. Believe me, I'm always on the lookout for new music, but my search keeps bringing me to the past where the music of days past is all too often neglected. I am more moved by songs from the 1920's than most of the music of the last 20 years.
However, I know you're right when you say that one must keep searching for something new, so, when I hear some music that makes the grade, I'll let you know. Word up, Yo.

oh, I forgot, at least I have a something to whine about- the lack of good music being presented to me on the radio and tv. What does thomyorke have to whine about? He is not rich enough?  :ahh

Money isn't everything, man.

I no longer feel Radioheads pain. I used to, not anymore. I don't buy their music. It doesn't move me, doesn't make me feel better, and it takes two listens of their better stuff for me to grow sick of it. Maybe money isn't everything, but it helps. Having supermodel girlfriends helps to. This is my opinion, I don't mean to argue or try to convince anybody that Radiodead sux. I'm no music snob, but I hate new music.....except Rob Thomas and Sum41.

I'm with you, man.  I'm well aware of the exceptions out there, and sure, there's some really good stuff being released in the sphere of modern pop music .  But I prefer (as stated somewhere before in this thread) those older methods of production that are so much more moving to me.  All I can hear in a lot of the music my friends are into, which would probably fall under Alternative Rock, is incoherent electric guitar and some drumming with simple bass lines.  Then there's the "singer/songwriter with a guitar" stuff coming out where a musician makes too much use of an acoustic guitar and some simple lyrics.  That, or the reggae/rap/rock vein which can be decent when it tries but was overdone for a while and has little to offer. 

I want to see a larger array of instruments.  You don't have to fit as many as possible into one production or Wall-Of-Sound the song, I just want to see more gentle, lucid combinations -- you know, more piano, horns, and violin.  On top of that, it would be nice if musicians would harmonize and explore a little more vocally.  This is also where I would ask to please tone down on the screaming.  It simply doesn't contribute anything for the most part. Use synthesizers more sparingly and with more discretion and eliminate computers except for mixing.  In essence, yes, I am asking for a return to old ways.  But that's just my taste.

I also want to say that I agree, noname.  I think Rob Thomas is somebody who's making worthwhile stuff.  He's a good lyricist, in my opinion.

I was hoping the first Rob Thomas thing was a joke. But now there have been two. So I have to laugh.

 ;D It could be one of those things I have a blind spot for recognizing that it's bad.

noname might have been joking because he also named Sum 41.  :)

ROb Thomas is God....Sum41 is his messengers............just kidding!!!! ;D

Even though I generally switch my radio to the 60s station, I do hear and like new music. Charlotte Gainsbourg (from the stuff I've heard) and Regina Spektor are currently my faves right now. Broadcast (just getting into them) and Stereolab, heck I play them more then I do the BB these days! Before I got into the Beach Boys, I was playing the CMT channel a lot and found some nice talent on that. For a while I think everything was good and then all of a sudden this sexist, plastic, whorish music started becoming popular. I think currently a lot of modern music sucks. It lacks soul, very selfish in terms of wanting to reconize where its come from and the look is now becoming more then substance. It's very sad but I think that like all other trends, it will die. People will always embrace singer songwriter's and people that are determined to make impact with their music. I remember when I started posting around the different Beach Boys boards I noticed so many people saying "the music is going to die with us" crap. I KNOW it is going to be rediscovered again. Yes it is a really slow process but I have hope. Tastes always change when people get older. I remember I had to do an interview for school with one of my old English teachers. I asked him about Bob Dylan because he is such a big fan of his. When people commented about it, it was a mixture of people who had no idea who he was and some that did. Some is better then none. Knowlege is spreading and that IS good  :)

I absolutely adore Regina Spektor. What a voice, and what a piano player!

If you like her, check out a band called 'Frankenixion' (now defunct, theyre now playing as Sword of Exactly) their lead singer Evelyn, is an amazing piano player and her voice is so angelic it gives me goosebumps!

I don't like what happened to music either. I liike some things by Jet or Coral but other then that I really have no music by anyone from the last 25 years. My tastes run from Hank Williams Sr to Black Sabbath, to Ricky Nelson, to Prince, and everything in between but from a certain era. I think most non Musak things recorded in the 50s and 60s are terrific. I like some early 70s rock and like Country and non disco soul music even through the early 80s. Yet everything I enjoy recorded since 82 or so is by artists already long established. I don't know why, it's just my taste. I do think music how it was prodced, recorded, the content, were all better at a certain point. I am sure there are some bands doing what I call real music but while I respect a group like Nirvana for their obvious talent, they just don't reach me beyond that. It's something that I can't really explain other then you like something or you don't

I really enjoy reading this topic! You people have some really interesting points about modern music.

I am "young" and I do like some bands that are "new" but generally I listen to mostly "old" music. I just like the way it sounds more and the way it was produced in the 60's for example. It feels more "real" and you get the feeling the music was really recorded while the bands/musicians really played those songs in the studio...

For example, I am a fan of Muse. They are great and have a lot musical value to their songs but for some reason their albums are hard to listen to. Listening to those makes me feel tired in a little while. Maybe it has something to do with the way they master recordings today? Too much compression...

Anyway, I just had a few beers and I'm tired so don't mind if I sound confusing. I'm gonna keep reading this topic anyway.

On this, if nothing else, great minds think alike!

By the way, as an addendum to what I've said previously on this thread, I was thinking of something recently: On this (and other BBs-related) board, I tend to present a sort of position of new music champion. I am always arguing against stagnating with the same old classics--GREAT though they are, and no argument there--and for people to seek out and listen to the great new music that is being made.

But in my circle of friends and acquaintences, many of whom are around my age (30), I tend to be considered an old phogey. They all think my taste is stale because of how much of the older music I do have, love, appreciate and champion.

It just goes to show that context is hugely important. My taste doesn't change depending on whether I'm on this board or hanging around my friends, but you'd sure think it did by the comments I get back!

I'm no music snob, but Limp Bizkit is a waaaayyy better band than the Beach Boys, Right??! :lol

i still think we havent gotten down to brass tacks here.......its more about equipment, then it is about musicianship, or arrangements,.....although that can be a problem too

hlablaneisgood, you raise a good point. The studios of the time are part of what made the era sound appealing to me, and it was studio trends that made me not like certain things later. I think it is about style somewhat too. The echoy Sun sound, the surf sound, the folk sound, the Motown sound, the British invasion, they all set the standard of the music of the day. I think it's down too whether you like that sound or not. If you love the fifties Elvis sound you are bound to like Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochrin, so forth. If you like the eary Beach Boys sound, Jan and Dean, Bruce and Terry, etc. are going to catch your ear. It's not really about if someone can play well, it's more about what they are trying to do with their music. Something like the Seattle sound of the early ninties doesn't appeal to me because of it's down beat nature. but I do realize that it helped bring back more natural production styles which I perfer. I think had Smile been recorded in 1988 instead of 2004 it may of been a huge disaster. Everything brings with it some good and bad, but I feel the sound of the last 30 odd years has stopped me from really enjoying some people with natural talent.

Here's my opinion of much of modern Rock, and modern music since I've got the time to rant.

Most modern rock is kitty music.  I went ahead and censored myself there... I blame all of this on a misinterpretation of Kurt Cobain's brand of Rock music.

Kurt was a very talented songwriter, and most Nirvana songs have strong structures and great melodies, under his screaming and the crazy guitars lie great songs.  When Kurt Cobain screamed or sounded pissed off, generally he was basing that emotion on something, and even then he didn't take himself too seriously, the music was meant to be passionate, not political or overly heavy.

Most modern Rock has based their sound on Kurt's sound and most of the modern rock singers get in the studio and just whine around like Kurt did, but it all comes across as pathetic and dishonest.  I mean if you listen to "All Apologies" you hear a man in pain, it's honest as hell.  If you listen to most modern rock, you hear a guy trying to sound like he's in pain, or rambling about how some girl dumped him.  Welcome to life, man, believe me... you're not the only one! I believe Kurt even ADMITTED "I'm not the only one" LOL

It's just night and day the difference between Kurt, an honest, talented musician and most modern rock acts: pretenders.

Rant off.

There are many bright spots.  Something like "The black Parade" has everything to make it a great song, honesty, passion, lyrics that don't try to be too clever but yet are thought provoking, etc. 

Generally though, most modern rock I can't stand, it comes across as dishonest, and most bands don't know what melody is, period.  Anytime you sacrifice all melody and only focus on rythym, you're making a big mistake.

Even good rap has a good melody.  check it out, next time you hear a rap song that you think is half ass tolerable, it'll have a pretty catchy melody somewhere in the song, and that's the part you'll like.

Country music is pretty decent, it's very honest generally and is pretty universal, it's a shame only white rednecks stereotypically enjoy it because I believe it's basically like folk music in that it speaks for everybody.  There's of course good country and bad country, but when you have performers like Alan Jackson and George Strait who are just masters at what they do, and women like Sara Evans writing and recording solid songs... I'll listen to country anyday over modern rock.

I'll even listen to pop before I'll listen to most modern rock.  At least pop stars are generally pretty honest, christina Aguilera sings songs about what a big slut she is, and the Backstreet Boys sing songs about how insecure they are.

You might just be listening to the wrong "new" music. With the exception of a couple of artists, most of the stuff that gets played on mainstream commercial radio today just plain stinks.

 Barenaked Ladies are pretty good. They haven't had a big radio hit in about 7 years, but are still selling albums and drawing big crowds at their live shows. Plus they did a song about the man himself, "Brian Wilson."

Wilco is a pretty decent country-rock/experimental band. Wilco frontman Jeff Tweedy is a huge fan of Mr. Wilson and the Boys, not to mention a Dylan-head and a Beatlemaniac. Check out the albums "Summerteeth" and "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot."

Modest Mouse is a really great rock band from Washington state. "Good News For People Who Love Bad News" is a mezmerising album, with really great production values and lots of little nuances.

Neutral Milk Hotel-defunct indie rock band that was led by this guy named Jeff Magnum, who is a huge Brian Wilson fan. Check out the "Aeroplane Over The Sea" album. NMH's labelmates The Olivia Tremor Control, did an awesome cover of "Do You Like Worms?" from SMiLE.

Flaming Lips-psychedelic rock band based out of Oklahoma City. "Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots" is a phenomenal album, or at least the couple of songs that I've heard from it are great. I'm assuming the entire album is as good as or better than "Do You Realize".

As far as "derivative" acts go, I would recommend Oasis. They blatantly rip off the Beatles but have written some great songs in the process of doing it. Yeah, their songs have simple "moon, june, spoon"-type rhyming, but it's catchy as hell. "What's The Story Morning Glory?" is still super popular even though its been over 10 years since it came out.

Radiohead is vastly overrated. Their first 3 albums have some good songs on them but are nowhere near as groundbreaking as people would like to think. After OK Computer, they decided to abandon rock music altogether and just made synthesizer noise with Thom Yorke mumbling some random lyrics over the noise, yet it was hailed as genius.

If all else fails, just put on a Beach Boys record and lose yourself in the music.

"I don't think that the American species is so debased that they have given up on all hope of a cultural life. It's just that they have no concept of how to achieve it or really understand why it's worth preserving. And that's what's so sad about museum attendance, because stuff in a museum is dead. It's cultural necrophilia. A museum should exist, yeah; you should go and see the past, you should see that treasured little thing -- whatever it is. But that's like the mentality of the guy who wanted to shut down the patent office in the early 1900s because it was the official government point of view that everything had already been invented."

- Frank Zappa, from a 1992 interview with Don Menn

Hey people, you should really check out Silverchair's new album 'Young modern'. It's great larger than life popmusic and Van Dyke Parks wrote the orchestral arrangements to the album.

You can hear it for free here: http://music.ninemsn.com.au/MediaPopup.aspx?MediaID=77693&Playlist=7 'If you keep losing sleep' is one of my favorite songs from the album but it's all good. 

Take care,
Machiavelli

Don't miss The Decemberists "The Crane Wife".

Moving along, there are data in the neuropsychology literature that seem to demonstrate the the music you grow up listening to is the music that your brain relates to. It gets harder and harder to adapt to seriously different styles of music the older you get. Obviously this isn't a rigid hard and fast rule as fans of current genres can also enjoy Pet Sounds and Friends and Summer Days, etc.
But there probably is something to it.

Wow, I'm an accidental scientist (without any data or proofs). Hurray for me.  ;)

I know, I know....but seriously folks....but we are not in the same kind of music market as the Beach Boys were in the 60's. When it comes down to it, it is really hard to listen to other stuff once you've become hip to the Beach Boys, no matter how old you were when you first heard them....we'll see what the future beholds, but IMO the market stresses image too much compared to the music....there seems to be too much emphasis placed on videos, fashions, and hair cuts than on the music. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but think about it. I'm supposed to really groove on modern music when I haven't heard anything that even touches the Beach Boy's at their best?

I've witnessed a lot of different styles and cultures of music here in NY and I tell you there is some stuff that sounds OK to me. A few years ago I was really grooving on art bands like the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Blonde Redhead, Piebald, etc., etc. After awhile I was like, WTF? Where's the melody? Why all the anger and why get all political on me? Brian Wilson was angrier than any one of those clowns but he turned it into beautiful art, not half-assed produced look-at-me-I'm -in-a-rock-band crap. That's all I see nowadys. I really dig artsy bands, and to me the coolest were from the late seventies/early eighties before MTV and commercial radio corrupted the business.

I'd love to hear the next thing, and there are definitely hints of it, there is something brewing...it will be great too....however it will be hard for the next wave of bands to not sell their souls to make it big while rising above the prevailing mediocrity of the Western Pop music world.                 

the End.......................btw, I'm no music snob. OK, maybe a little bit, but show me somebody who isn't?? I'll play them a back to back dose of Kenny G and Yanni....

I think the business was always corrupted. After all, it was always business. There are fewer owners now--that's the biggest difference.

true story.........I know I over generalized too....but I know there will be a renaissance, it just seems futile at the moment....to be continued....

Foolish youth.

I don't like new music.........but I heard "Girlfriend" by Lil Mama and Averial Lavigne and IT IS STUCK IN MY HEAD AHHHHHHHHHGRRRHHH, I even tried to exorcise it with BB music full blast, but they overpower the poor guys in the striped shirts... :wall
Carly

3 words...R Stevie Moore !!!

Are you sure the Renaissance isn't happing right now, or at least circumstances are being set for a Renaissance to happen soon. The major labels are dying; mergers, buyouts, suing people for doing the internet age's equivalent of taping songs, DRM, exponential decrease in CD sales; the major labels are desperate, they're looking to things like ringtones and paid downloads to make up for lost revenue, but that's still not enough, to save money they are cutting artists, leaving only mindless crap in the mainstream, causing less people to listen to their music. At the same time this is happening, indie labels are thriving, experiencing increases in sales; indie music is more prevalant then ever, with bands like The Decemberists, Rilo Kiley, The Postal Service, and Arcade Fire being immensely popular, and major acts such as Barenaked Ladies and Radiohead self-releasing new material. 

Decemberists aren't indie anymore--their last album (Crane Wife) was their major label debut, on Capitol.

But you're right of course that indie is almost the only place anything cool in rock or pop is happening, other than the continued releases by people who are already legends (such as Dylan).

I love Jerry Tamborello's work in DNTEL, as well as the Postal Service.....I also love Yeah Yeah Yeahs.......but I can't say this or anything else is the music that will fill the power vacuum in popular music the way other bands in the past have..... Too many genres, to many bands, too many egos, too much vulgarity, too many opinions, critics, and polls, not enough good ideas......yada yada yada. Keep in mind how much a role technology played in the waves of outstanding musical movements during the 20th century....do we have that now???

Is the renaissance in the making?? Perhaps, but I doubt it....but who am I??? A NOBODY, totally out of the loop looking down on hipster cheesballs, no longer a teenage know it all with fresh ears and attitude, just reading Smiley Smile's interesting posts, and listening to the Beach Boys religously...

Ascrodin, keep up the good work with yer blog, I love it....Smiley Smile rules.....Hell, name any song over the last 15 years that even comes close to Heroes and Villians, album version... :rock

There is no void. The only problem is if you need a band to consume the consciousness of the public-at-large, to be a massive event, etc., as opposed to just making great music.

True Dat.....you were able to phrase it better than I.