The Smiley Smile Message Board

I know this may be too close to 'fan fiction', but I've always fantasized that:
       The BB actually broke up that day in '78 ('79?) on the tarmac in front of the Rolling Stone reporter
       Somehow the three wilson bros. got it together enough to (1) not die and (2) form a new musical entity.
 This accomplishes several things, including giving the BB a nice, natural death instead of the painfully long one we are still watching, and maybe giving us some great Denny/Carl/Brian tunes. Anyone else have any alternate history ideas? Hope this isn't too stupid a question....

That big blow up you were referring to was September 3, 1977.

I have an alternate history that I don't think very many people speculate on, and even less people think could ever happen, but...

I truly wish that The Beach Boys would reunite - Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David - and not just do a special concert, or record just a single, or release just an album. I wish that the Beach Boys would get back together and do it again for 7-8 more years, record 3-4 more NEW albums, with Summer tours and Christmas tours, and have a 50th Anniversary TV Special.

The Beach Boys - and Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Simon & Garfunkel, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton et al - are making history right now. They are rocking and rolling THROUGH their 60's and probably into their 70's. If they are blessed with continued good health, I see no reason why they couldn't continue for another 8-10 years. The five "Beach Boys" that I mentioned above appear to be in good health, they are all still active musically, I see no hints of retirement.

What I don't want to see are more solo albums - from The Beach Boys, Simon & Garfunkel, The Stones, The Kinks, etc. Maybe I'm just too sentimental but I prefer to see these musicians working together, not apart. Anyway, that's how I would write/re-write the (alternate) history of The Beach Boys. I'd hate to see it end/fade away the way it appears to be going...

Am I missing something?

Isn't it true that:
1. The Beach Boys haven't made a decent album since the 70s.
2. Two of the more talented Beach Boys are dead.
3. The Beach Boys' voices aren't what they used to be.
4. By and large, the Beach Boys haven't been comfortable in a room together in a long time.
5. The most talented Beach Boy, while still alive, is arguably not functioning to full capacity.

So given all of this (and especially number 4), why hope for a reunion? I don't understand.
 :-\
The other thing, about the Beach Boys breaking up and the Wilson brothers doing their thing, is interesting. Vocally, it would have sounded different than the Beach Boys, but it would have been great to hear what they would come up with.

1. Yes, it's true.
2. Yes, it's true
3. Yes, it's true
4. Yes, it's true
5. Yes, it's true

But...

1. A lot has changed since the 70's. I'd like to think they're healthier and wiser since then. Is it possible they learned from their mistakes?

2. However, two of the more talented ones (Brian & Mike) are still with us.

3. Yes, but isn't technology great.

4. They're getting there. That rooftop thing was a success. Mike & Bruce are together. Brian & Al are together. Dave gets along with everyone! They need a mediator. I'm available!

5. True, which is why he would benefit from the talents of the other guys.

Amy, I know I'm dreaming and maybe not being totally realistic. But I can't take these solo projects - or proposed solo projects - anymore.  They tried that route, and Pacific Ocean Blue, IMO, is the only one to possess greatness.  I think they're at the point in their careers where they could come together and produce something worthwhile. At the very least, they should have a lot of material stockpiled. Sometimes, it seems so clear to me that I can't believe anybody, including the Beach Boys, can see it. Or hear it...

September 3rd, 1977.

And it scares me that I know this without missing a beat  :-\

1 - true.
2 - true.
3 - with one exception, very true.
4 - in the past, yes, but of late, the meetings (the Tower, Brian's house) have been at worst cordial.
5 - I'd say Brian is firing on maybe one cylinder. Tops.

Has it really gotten that bad?

It's all relative I think.  When you put Brian today next to Brian the 23 year old musical visionary, it does seem like "firing on one cylinder" is an appropriate assessment.  Of course at the same time, he is probably better now than he has been in a long time (arguably in about 30 years).  None of us really know what goes on behind the scenes nowadays, but it's certainly possible that Andrew is right on.  We'd all like to think otherwise, but its clear than he is not anywhere near the same guy he once was. 

Anyways, I really don't see how a reunion could work.  Just the logistics of it (what songs to play, whose musicians to use, how much control they all have, etc) are enough to question whether or not it could work.  It would be nice to see it happen as maybe a one time thing, before all of their voices are completely shot, but I really don't think anything beyond that is feasable.  If Carl were still alive, I think it would be a lot more likely to happen.

I think it's all a question of whether Brian / his management WANTS it to happen. The "Beach Boys" (Mike & Bruce) tour every year so the music is there if you wanna see it, but it's Brian who holds all the aces. A Beach Boys reunion WITH Brian Wilson, that's how it would have to happen. It would be Brian's terms. Al Jardine has found that out, he's performing with Brian as (A) Brian is his friend but more importantly (B) Brian's management allowed it to happen...

Let's face it, IF Brian is "firing on one cylinder" he hasn't been making all the business and musical decisions over the past few years .  :-\

I concur.  I would like to see that also.  Al joining Brian has proven to be a highly successful for the artists, the music, and for the fans.  When I say "the artists" I  include Brian.  Having Al there takes some of the weight and pressure off of Brian's shoulders and allows him to enjoy performing a little more.  I think that ti would next make a lot of sense to bring David into the group. He brings a load of talent and, just like that, you would then have 3 of the original South Bay kids!  That would be fantastic to me. 
 If later on they can add Mike and Bruce without a lot of nonsense ( I guess realistically there probably would be some)  all the better.
I think it would be great and I don't care what they want to call themselves -  I know who they are.
 

Do you a little more about the meeting at Brian's house? I always wondered how that went on. Were they all there?

Obviously the best way to do a BB reunion would be to simply let Mike, Bruce and Al join Brian and his band.

"If later on they can add Mike and Bruce without a lot of nonsense ( I guess realistically there probably would be some)  all the better."

Later on? How many years have they got left?

And I say unto you... Gettin' In Over My Head.

Q, E, and very decidedly D.  :)

All there (excepting David, of course), no blood on the walls.

100 % Correct!

Wait a minute-- is it that Brian is firing on one cylinder or that he's actually more "with it" than people think but just doesn't really have the energy and passion that he used to.

What about all those stories that Brian is shockingly "all there" when the interviewers leave and he becomes comfortable?

The question is, would he be "all there" in a room full of BBs or would he clam up and shut down, which he seemed to do fairly often, starting in the early 70s?

That's a good point Amy. I think Brian feels he's done and just doesn't care. I think he likes touring, but couldn't give a donkey piss about recording anymore. Interviews? Forget it...I think Brian's tired of the game and has been for a long time. I also question just what is the truth about Brian's "condition". I'm really starting to question everything that comes out of Brian's "camp".

Wow. It's cool to see how these threads develop. I kinda like the 'don't trust Brian's camp' camp's angle. Soon it will be proven that Mike was the only guy who knew what was going on!! Talk about alternate histoy

Brian's attention span has always been somewhat transient, and of late (i.e. over the last couple of decades), it's not got any better. Or in other words, he gets bored of something very rapidly... and when he's bored, he plain doesn't give it his whole-, or even half-, hearted attention. I've been with him in a setting where he's totally comfortable, and marvelled at what i saw: a completely relaxed, cogent, coherent and above all, hugely funny BW. The man is a natural comedian. I've also experienced him bored (too many timers onstage), and sadly, been there when he just wasn't connecting with the known universe in any way whatsoever (scary and utterly depressing, the moreso because no-one else there seemed to think it was anything out of the ordinary...). I think he likes some aspects of touring, but as for recording, if Darian's not (metaphorically) standing behind him with a sharp stick and poking him every time he sings a bum note, he'll try to get away with the very least he can do. As for any sustained creative drive, well, just how many completely new songs has he released since Imagination in 1998 ?

A Friend Like You
Walking Down The Path Of Life (though part sounds awfully like "He Come Down" to me)
Christmassy
What I Really Want For Christmas.

It's been said to me that GIOMH was an exercise in showing the finger to the bootleggers, but it's also been whispered in my shell-like, and from an interesting quarter, that those tracks were released because there wasn't anything else in the pot. I used to think that the "writer's block" quote in so many interviews was just an avoidance tactic, but maybe not.

That ties into what I was saying...Brian doesn't give a f*ck anymore. And really, why should he? I too want a new BW album to purchase, but not if he's pushed into it against his will. What left is there for him to accomplish?

True, true. That may also be why there have been no BW studio bootlegs with material recorded since then. We don't have any indication on whether the new songs he's allegedly recorded lately are indeed all new songs, or remakes/remodels like on GIOMH. Here's something, though...there are  songs written/recorded still unbootlegged during the past, oh I dunno, 40 years, correct?  Why not take a song from the vaults that hasn]t been bootlegged and pass it off as a newly written song? Or, maybe that's what happened with those songs mentioned above...

If the titles I've seen quoted for the 'new' songs are even mildly accurate, at least two of them are at least ten, fifteen years old, and a third rings definite bells.

Well, the song he wrote with Bacharach sounded pretty new, but the others like "Goin home" are probably (at least in part) older songs. I don't see what is so wrong about that. He wrote them once and maybe thought about releasing them. That didn't turn out, so he (hopefully) releases them now. The only thing that would be wrong is if they would claim these were all newly written tunes.

I don't like the reunion idea...I wish we'd let our musical heroes age and fade away gracefully, but we insist on more, and then complain when it isn't up to par.

As far as I'm concerned, it hasn't been up to par in the studio since 1977, or exceptional since 1973. But we beg 60-somethings to come tour the hits again--and on boards like this for full albums of new material--and then bitch about the results.

I am not claiming innocence here, by the way. It's natural to want more. But it would be more reasonable to accept that the best is long past, and there may not be much left that's even good. If we were really left only with the surviving Beach Boys and no outside help, even the live shows would be pretty atrocious.

In an alternate version...

I would have been Marilyn
I would have been in The Honeys
There would have been no American Spring (sorry guys I am not dragging my sister into this)
Smile would have been released April Fool's Day 1967
There would've been no Dr. Landy
I would have set fire to Mike's turban collection  >:D
The sandbox wouldn't have existed or painting the house purple (you got to draw the line somewhere with all this psychadelic stuff)
People like Loren Schwartz would not have been allowed in my house
Brian would have met Serge Gainsbourg

Thats all I have so far  :angel: :3d

Well, there's no "allegedly" about one thing, Brian has definitely been recording songs, new or not, over the last few months of the autumn.

Nicely put Sherrif. Yours will not be a popular stance with the "Brian people" but I can definitely relate to it. There's something magical about seeing even the remnants of something great, the more remnants you put together the closer it is to magic. I was lucky enough to be on the Capitol rooftop this past summer, and yeah...it was very cool to see those guys standing shoulder to shoulder and having fun. I'm among the "I wish they had hung it up on Sept. 3rd 1977" crowd. Never a fan of the '80's or '90's bands, and while i'm  a great admirer and huge respecter of the current BW band, I'm one who knows he's seeing something skewed from its original context ... a kind of beautiful facsimile or... tingle inducing celebration of Brian and his music. Its wonderful... but not as good as say...well...Give me the BB's in '64 at the T.A.M.I. any day, or in '65 at the Hollywood Bowl...or in '71, or in '72, '73, 74, 75 and sometimes in 76. To me that is waaaay more of a culturally impactful and important thing than even (GASP) the Smile tour. Ooooh he said it.

BUT...you are right. i too would love to see the surviving BB's reunite for longer than a minute...no Carl, No Dennis...but with the other five together the spirits of CW and DW definitely come closer than they do when its just one or two of them. It may only be remnants of the BB's, but its enough to make a little more magic i'd think.

You say "He wrote them once and maybe thought about releasing them. That didn't turn out, so he (hopefully) releases them now", but remember Brian himself said in post GIOMH interviews that the choice of songs for that project wasn't his.

Like you, I've no probs with archive tracks being released, or remade, or used as the foundation of  a 'new' song, but when the implication is that these are new compositions, then my spider senses start tingling. Of course, only a few people like thee an' me would know this - to Joe Q. Public, they were new material - but still...

An interesting point I got out of the Peter Carlin book was the fact that by the early 70s, Brian didn't like the Beach Boys anymore (as people?) and he didn't want to make music anymore (he was just fed up with it). So he just didn't want to get involved.
I think thats fair enough, if someone doesn't want to do something for any reason, they shouldn't be made to do it.
Then he was forced to get back into it to make more 'hits' for the group. When he did write new songs (late 70s) the group didn't like them.
Brian may be lazy, maybe people think he should be doing music, but he's had 30 odd years of basically being forced to do music (by the Beach Boys, then Landy, by the mysterious strangers who lurk in his 'camp'), it's no wonder he's not firing on all cylinders.
Imagine working in a job in your 20s, and then leaving, and then being forced to go back to work for the next 30 years even though you don't have to.

You're totally right Matt.  I can't imagine what Brian must have felt like, being asked by the group to write songs for them only to have them reject what he wrote.  I think that period really drove away his passion for creating music, and it really has never returned.  Why bother creating what you want if nobody is going to accept it?  I mean, even something as amazing as "Til I Die" wasn't greeted with open arms at first.  Knowing that he could still write great stuff but also knowing that the guys would reject it must have had an impact on him.  I like your analogy of working in your 20's, then being forced to work for the next 30 years, more or less against your will.  Brian could have easily just stopped in the late 60's, and his legend today would probably be just as strong.  Most of what he is celebrated for was already completed (or somewhat completed, with Smile) by the age of 24.  Anything after that was really just icing, but for better or worse, that early period set a ridiculously high standard for the years that have followed.  Few artists in their prime have come close to Brian's '62-'66 levels, and its not reasonable to expect a 60+ year old Brian to either.  But I digress. 

Obviously the situation today isn't exactly the same as in the 70's with the BB, and it's probably more a case of not wanting to put in the time to create a totally new album.  And most would agree, I think, that Brian doesn't owe us anything.  If he wants to make music, it should be on his terms.  His "people" probably mean well, but the goal shouldn't be to put out product that sounds like what they think a Brian Wilson record should sound like.  Let him go into a studio and do whatever the hell he wants.  Let him write with whoever he wants, whether that be with Van Dyke, one of the guys from the band, Paley, or just by himself.  He doesn't even necessarily have to release it.  He should be free to just record whatever he wants and have that be that.  If he wants to give us more, that's great.  Whether it's good or bad, all of us will buy it anyways.  Let's hope that his upcoming project will be something that will make everyone happy; not only the fans, but especially Brian.

Yep, that's right. I just thought about the Paley-songs he probably wanted to release when he originally did them in the 90s. But I may be wrong on that.
I often wonder how much input Brian really has on his soloalbums at times...

BTW thanks for replying to my question about the meeting at Brian's house. I'd like to imagine them all hanging around Brian's piano and harmonize a little bit. Certainly didn't happen that way, but it's a nice thought anyway.

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Yeah. I'm going home to listen to LBWL and dream of what should have been  :P

Yeah like Mike Love's 550000000000000000000000000000 wife  :lol

Supposing that the BBs broke up in 1977 and Dennis turned his life around and lived.

I think that Dennis would've had excellent success throughout the 80s as a solo artist.

Carl would be involved in music somehow. I think he could be a succesful solo artist, but more in the direction of 'Heaven' then that early 80s r&b stuff he did. Or he might have been a producer for modern groups through the 80s and 90s.

Brian, who was doing pretty well in 76-77. So supposing he didn't go downhill again, I think he would have a much better collection of solo albums throughout the 80s and 90s. Perhaps as good as Dennis' if not better.

Al and Dave would become guitar teachers.

Bruce would continue to write big hits for untalented artists like Michael Bolton, Rod Stewert and Justin Timberlake.

Mike, depressed on the brake up of the BBs would turn to drugs and alcohaul and die somewhere around 1984.

Mike would still be touring as The Beach Boys.

What happened?

Basically there was a huge bust up on the tarmac between the TM axis and Carl & Dennis: initially it was over which plane Brian was travelling in (if I recall correctly, he changed his mind about flying with Mike & Alan), then degenerated into a general slanging match. I think someone told Dennis he was only in the band because Audree begged Brian to let him in (true, as it happens). The band essentially broke up for a couple of weeks, then had a crisis meeting in Brian's house, which Carl summed up by saying "sometimes you have to let something fall apart to see if it's worth putting back together again. We decided it was". Unfortunately, it was at this meeting that Mike gained effective control of Brian's corporate vote (basically, Brian gave it to him), thus enabling he & Alan to outvote Carl & Dennis. And that was, for some observers, pretty much the end of the BB as a creative force.

Just to add two little tidbits to the story...

First, apparently there was a reporter (from Rolling Stone ?) who just happened to be there, documenting the whole mess. And second, it happened on Al Jardine's birthday!

Not to start another hammer/defend Mike Love discussion (although I guess I am), but I always viewed that incident as the straw that broke the camel's back. I think it finally got to the point where Mike (and Al) got tired of dealing with alcoholic, drug-abusing, mentally ill, and overall irresponsible band mates. And I say that not to take shots at Dennis, Carl, and Brian. Many times I have put myself in Mike's position (in late 1977), and I know, no matter how talented the Wilson brothers might've been - you can only take so much. I think Mike saw a second chance at success and popularity slipping away. He saw it happen once in 1967; it was deja vu all over again...

Fair point, except that in fall 1977, Brian was in as good a shape as he'd been in for some decade: the photos of him wearing the 'American Spring' shirt are from that time period - 9/1/77, in fact.

There is another possible spin - Love You had been released of critical acclaim (and yes, iffy sales), while POB was about to hit the racks and the advance word was it was outstanding. Mike could have thought he was seeing the band breaking up for - amazing as it seems at this remove - creative reasons. Remember, in 1977, the band were still huge.

Love You got good reviews? I love the album but I just assumed it was something all the critics would hate.

I have read a lot of good things about Love You recently, but what were the reviews like in 1977?

Pretty positive, as I recall - the general view was "OK, so it's a bit wierd, but this is more like it".

That's honestly the best and most accurate review of Love You i've ever heard!  ;D

It took me awhile to appreciate Love You.  Right now I love about half the songs, a few are ok, and a few I could live without.

I think 1977 may have been the last really good year for Dennis and Brian. Carl was in worse shape then them at the time. I do feel for Mike and Al as far as having to put up with drug crap. Yet I do feel for Brian, Dennis and Carl having their ambitions stifled. One thing I do think though is that Adult Child had way more to it then Love You, and in my opinion since Desper said Brian WAS pretty invovled in the Surf's Up LP I think it was the fight over the title song that finally led him to "quit" the group, or not like them.

1970 saw a pretty active Brian as a Beach Boy. Hell even the Caribou sessions have a Brian that seems to be having fun. Strange that when Landy came in that Brian seemed worse then before. In all the pre Landy interviews even in 74 he seems so different. A little odd but with it. Some late 76 and 77 interviews (and even a few from 81 ie Portrait Of A Legend) have a pretty "hip" Brian. Again when Landy came back Brian seemed so much worse this time for good.

One last thing to Andrew I noticed you mentioned Bruce saying something at the Rock Hall to Ahmet. I think that was Al because Bruce didn't attend.

Which ones could you live without?

Bruce was there - just wasn't inducted. Unless he was lying to me when he told me that.

They only induct original members or something? Why wouldn't Bruce be inducted? He sang on California Girls and Pet Sounds for crying out loud.

When the Ramones were inducted I didn't see Tommy Ramone, the original drummer, on stage. Just Marky, not an original member. Was Tommy Ramone inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame? Was Mick Taylor or Ron Wood inducted with the Rolling Stones? What is the criteria?

I agree, Bruce should have been inducted.  I mean, Sammy Hagar is going in with Van Halen and Bruce had been with the BB's longer than Sammy had VH.

With the Ramones, Tommy was there, he just looks WAY different than he did in the old days.  Long salt and pepper colored hair now instead of the Ramone jet black hair.  All of the originals and Marky were there.  I am pretty sure CJ wasn't inducted nor was Richie.

As for the Stones, I'm not sure about Ron or Mick.

Mick Taylor was there. I think I read Bruce saying he didn't go. I know he didn't show up in any news reports. I remember Jardine saying something like that on the news in the week following. I think Bruce was at that award show the week after where Mike wore an construction helmet. Maybe that's where he said it. A lot was going on in 88 with the group.

Ding Dang, Honkin, Mona and Love is a Woman