The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was just wondering what Dennis might be doing today if he were still alive. I am pretty confident that he would NOT be touring with Mike Love today.  My guess is that he would have probably continued his solo career in the 80s and 90s. But I have a hunch that he might have joined Brian these last five years with Pet Sounds and Smile.

Maybe this is a silly subject because we will never know, but it an interesting thing to wonder about.

Can you honestly picture Denny as a 62 year old?  I can't...

If he didn't die in 1983 he would have died sometime between then and now.

Still, if he were alive today, I agree he and Carl probably would have joined Brian's band, and hopefully incorporated some of their songs into the setlist like Adam Marsland's band...

Sometimes I can't wait to get to Heaven....

What makes you think Brian/Melinda would've wanted him in the band. First of all, his drumming wasn't good enough. Second, well, there's a lot of seconds, and thirds...

If Carl were still alive, I think Dennis WOULD still be touring with Mike and Bruce, picking up a check and picking up, well, you know.... :police:

What makes you think Melinda would've had the ultimate decision on that? Dennis wouldve probably been stuck on keys but Im sure if both of his brothers were alive today, Brian would want them to be there. Family dude, family.

If Dennis hadn't died in December 1983, he would have died in January 1984. Maybe February, tops March. His was a soul worn out from within, a life lived at 500mph. Dennis was never destined to see 50, much less 62.

I think Melinda makes the ultimate decision on almost every Brian career-related issue. I consider her Brian's wife, partner, conservator, and manager. Just my opinion.

Dennis wasn't a good enough keyboard player to be in the band either.

How much do you think Brian values family? Before they died, was Brian close to Dennis and Carl? Or Audrey? What is Brian's relationship like with Carnie and Wendy? Or their husbands? Or his grandchildren? I really don't know, I'm just asking, since you brought up family - dude.

If Dennis had somehow made it to see today alive, there would be a good a chance that Brian wouldn't have, considering the way they fed off one another's addictions. So Brian may not have been on the road these past years touring at all, much less with Pet Sounds and Smile. And if Brian still were alive, there's a decent chance he'd be a 320-pound addict and recluse hammering out day-long versions of Shortn'in Bread in his house.

We ought not let out strong feelings of people's music and its beauty alter the sometimes unpleasant facts.

All very negative here. Brian was much more involved when Dennis was still alive . 1983 shows he would have been healthy Dennis or not. Dennis. if he had lived. would have been in better shape. Meaning that AGD is right that unless he changed he would have been dead soon no matter what. Assuming the best I think Dennis would have made Brian's like a lot happier had he cleaned up too. He and he alone was the only one to ever really treat Brian like a person. Carl tried too, but he was more about maintaining status quo then rocking the boat. Dennis may have prevented Landy from getting too much power, hell he may have not let Melinda have too much either. This is wishfull thinking but I am saying this only assuming that Dennis could regain his own health. I can't see the Beach Boys getting as crappy as they did in the eightes if Dennis was a healthy participent. 

oops! double post.

Agreed.Just from the drinking  alone, he was on borrowed time. Throw in the endless coke, and you've got someone not just knocking on death's door but breaking it down like Kool-Aid Man saying "Oh YEAHHH". Seriously, though, the last few years of his life were rough, and he looked like ass at the end.

Even if he would've cleaned up and lived, he wouldn't have been able to put out any solo albums, unless the songs were instrumental or hada different vocalist. By the time 1983 reared its ugly head, his voice was gone.

I think Landy would've kept Dennis away. If Dennis was clean,though, he would've killed Landy. No way would Landy have been able to completely take over Brian's life to the point of nearly killing him with the meds...Dennis would've beat the living sh*t out of him, at the very least.

Of course, that's only if Dennis was clean. If he wasn't, though, he would've died anyway like I said a minute ago.

To SJS - As if Dennis' ability as a drummer or keyboard player has any relevance as to whether he'd be collaborating or participating musically with Brian? That's laughable! You've been watching too many David Leaf movies or something. Dennis was the only being in Brian's realm who had anything remotely resembling Brian's own arsenal...his gifts, his demons, his spirituality, his heart, his sensitivity, his creativity, his fearlessness as an artist...and his deep connections to things that not one of us will ever understand. Dennis was different, he was aggressive, Brian is passive...but Dennis was right there as a soul...the closest thing to Brian. Many have said it besides me. But those who might make mention of drumming ability probably missed that particular bus many times over...or refuse to acknowledge it even exists. Incredible.

As some others with excellent insight have mentioned here, Dennis probably lived longer than he should have. He was done. He'd been dancing on the edge for way too long. If he'd changed then he wouldn't have been Dennis. It's a sad thing but he inevitably had to pay the piper for who he was. Brian STILL knows the connection...that Dennis was fuel, inspiration, truth, and the closest thing to himself. And its still too scary for him to go there...unless he lets you in for a second...then you see it.

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Word. Thumbs way up on that one.

More reality than we we can afford in those two quotes.

Jon Stebbins, you are taking what I wrote out of context. Magic Transistor Radio and Goofy Jeff both opined that Dennis would probably join Brian's band. I simply responded that Dennis's drumming and keyboard skills (along with Melinda's veto) would prevent him from being included in Brian's band - in concert, in live performance, on the road. Darian and Jeff have assembled a band of top-notch, highly competent,  LIVE PERFORMING musicians. I don't believe that Dennis had the skills and qualifications to "cut it" in Brian's band. The drummer is extremely important in performing the note for note, complex arrangements that Brian's live shows dictate. I just don't think Dennis could handle it, where musical skills are absolutely necessary. Actually, I'd be surprised if Dennis would even want to perform in Brian's band; it might've be too intimidating for him. In Dennis's later years with The Beach Boys, when the group would play a current, more complex song that he didn't drum on in the studio, he'd leave the stage and let Bobby Figueroa handle it. While I'm not surprised you disagreed with me, I was disappointed that you deviated from the original point - which was joining Brian's band, not collaborating.

Dennis might've collaborated with Brian on some project, big or small, in some studio. And they might've recorded something, although I doubt it. But Dennis collaborating with Brian on music in a studio is a lot different than live performance, and that is what I was addressing.

If Dennis and Carl didn't die, they wouldn't be in "Brian's band" or "Mike's band". They'd be in the Beach Boys.

Dennis could play just about anything. I heard that he played most of the instruments on POB. I think the question would be weather management would allow Dennis or Carl to join
Brian. I don't think Brian would have a problem with it. Plus I am sure they would rather have them then Al Jardine, and he is with Brian now.

True, but would Mike, Al, and Bruce be in there, too?

First of all, who says that Dennis has to play an instrument with Brian's group? I am not saying that he would be a permanent member of the Brian's group, but probably would've made some appearences along with Carl and add some vocals.

And yes, this is all asuming Dennis is clean since that would be basically his only chance to be alive today. I know Dennis' vocals were crap before he died, but Brian's was getting pretty bad as well. I don't think there would be any reason why he couldn't recover vocally.

Get out! Seriously...have you listened to any of Dennis' stuff? Sure he's had Dragon and others playing some instruments on his tracks but Dennis was becoming a prominent piano player. Like mentioned before he played MULTIPLE instruments on POB...have you even listened to the album? Its the best Beach Boy solo album, and I wouldnt be surprised if Dennis had a lot more to the tracking than what others believe.

Dennis' voice was MUCH further gone by that point, and he didn't have much to work with to begin with. That's not an insult, just pointing out the fact it wasn't the SOUND of his voice that made it sound good, it was the way he used it.


Most definitely. He was self-taught, too, wasn't he? If so...wow.

I bought Pacific Ocean Blue in 1977 on the day it was released. It is the best solo album of all the Beach Boys.

However, playing keyboards in the studio and performing music live is like night and day. Brian Wilson today is a good example of this.

Hey, I have  a lot of respect for Dennis Wilson as a songwriter and as a musician. I love his music - all of it, released and unreleased. I'm just trying to apply a little reality to the issue of Dennis performing  Pet Sounds and Smile live.

That's exactly it -- 100%. The Beach Boys would not have broken up in 1998, if both Dennis and Carl were still alive. I believe they would still be together even if only one of the two younger Wilsons still lived.

BTW, given how few shows Brian does per year, his brothers could have joined him on tour without missing their Beach Boys' dates. I also think they would be billed as equals.

Great thread, IMO. I think if Dennis And Carl were around today, we would all be paying to see the real Beach Boys.

And I Think it would be BBPS Instead Of BWPS

I think it's wrong to say that Dennis wasn't a good enough musician to play in Brian's band.  What I'd gather both from playing with some of those same musicians and from talking to friends of Dennis' is that Dennis would not have had the focus to play in Brian's band.  Dennis was a perfectly competent keyboard player and had a deep pocket as a drummer, but according to Stan Shapiro, he loathed practicing and never played the drums outside the stage or the studio.

My take is that Dennis, when he applied himself, could do anything he pleased, but his attention and commitment often waned.  Jon or Andrew might have a more informed view but that's my impression.

People who were around at the time have suggested to me that not being allowed to mount his own solo tour in '77 was what started Dennis' final spiral.  I've heard some of the rehearsal tapes for that tour and they sound incredible.  So maybe a better question would be to ask what would have happened had Dennis been allowed to do his solo career and stay with the Beach Boys simultaneously?

What do you mean by 'Mount his solo tour'?

Dennis was scheduled to do a solo tour in '77.

Well, he was known for frequently mounting...never mind!


Or The Wilson Bros. Present SMiLE

Knowing Carl, he would have made sure it was the Beach Boys, not just the Wilson Brothers.

I've spoken with people involved in the making of POB - don't believe all of the credits (not unlike Brian's 1988 album). There's one interview where Dennis claims he played tuba on one track...



Best I know, on the album he played some drums (but not all, or even most - other drummers used were Bobby Figueroa and Hal Blaine, plus Ricky Fataar on some older tapes used), a whole mess of keyboards and harmonica. I'd have to say, it was Denny's keyboard playing that really made that album - iffn you don't believe, check the intro/outro to "Thoughts Of You", or the synth washes and slabs anywhere else on the set.

Dear Friends,
I often wonder what "would have been " if Dennis and Carl were alive today what would of happened. I've been a member of a fan club called FRIENDS OF DENNIS WILSON based out of San Jose, California since 1990 or so. If Dennis and Carl were alive, that would be interesting. I think Dennis would of left The Beach Boys once Brian was let go and folowed his heart as a solo performer. Yeah even though the last year of Dennis' life was in deep trouble. It was finally catching up with him. If Carl was still with us, maybe we'd would of had more stuff he did with Robert Lamm and Gerry Beckley. When Carl died, it truly the end of the band forever. I once read a quote about how the three Wilson Brothers were the core of the band. I'd like to add my comment about that Brian was the brains and innocence of the band, Dennis was the soul ( I mean he's the only one who deserved the title Beach Boy ) and Carl was the soft gentle heart when he took over the band. Although Carl also became the perfectionist after Brian retreated from the band in the early 70's. I just wanted to post my two cents but I put more in than that. Happy New Years everyone and God Bless you and your familes.

 :smokin Beckgtr09 = Ted    

[double post]

Oh, but not you're ruining those fun little myths that make being a fan so fun for people. What's next, no Santa Claus? No, I believe Dennis played everything with virtuosic talent. Oh, and Brian finished a secret SMiLE in his head in 1967.

I don't think that Brian would have a solo-carrere at all if Dennis and Carl were still alive. It would be the Beach Boys, like all those years before. I also don't think that Smile would have been finished.

That's what I'm thinking too.

If if was a skiff, we'd all go for a boat ride.
 
When I ran into Dennis in the Summer of 1983, he could barely speak. When he did, Carl looked at me like 'there's nothin' we can do.'  The future at that point was sadly, obviously, grim. The band went on without Dennis, but after Carl, the end had arrived. Yes, Mike has carried on in his own world. The major bonus to the sad reality was Brian coming back to the real world in 1999. And Alan, well, I'm glad at least Brian has taken him under his wing again. His Family and Friends were excellent.  Al Jardine is just as important as any of them. And by "them" I mean all those folks who were a part of the greatest rock band ever.

With all due respect Dave, in my opinion, Al Jardine was/is not as important to The Beach Boys as Brian Wilson or Mike Love or Carl Wilson or Dennis Wilson.

Agree to disagree. Al Jardine is just as important as all of them, ofcourse he was never in the limelight as the Wilson brothers or their cousin, but his presence definitely had an important impact to the band. Performance and recording wise. I mean, we're talking about the guy who starting to sing Brian's parts...the same man who has all the hardcore fans confused whether its Brian or not on the recording...

I dunno, I don't think the classic era Beach Boys would have been significantly different had Dave Marks stayed in. I dig Al, but I think perhaps he is a second tier member; the only one of the original five who maybe doesn't make much of a difference to sound or image. Whereas imagining the Boys without Mike, Carl or Denny...

And with all due respect, a 60-yr-old man doesn't need to be to be taken under anyone's wing, especially when he is a singer, guitarist and songwriter who was a part of the Beach Boys for 30 years. Brian is taking him under his wing? Please...what the f***...

So tell us Luther what other major league event would Al be involved in nowadays if not for Brian realizing that Alan's presence and talent can only make things better on stage?  Do you have a problem with semantics?

I just think the phrase was unnecessary. To say he was taking Al under his wing implies 1) that Al NEEDS someone to coddle him, as if he were some 18-year-old who had never done a show in his life, as opposed to a grown man with an extensive history of being part of a very successful band, and 2) that Brian Wilson is currently capable of somehow guiding or leading anyone, which I doubt he is, by the way.

It isn't a matter of what else Al would be doing.

I'll say this about Al...he was the most consistent and professional of the guys. And yes, that includes Carl. When Carl had his problems with smack, it was up to Al to shoulder the load, and he did admirably. Day in and day out, Al always brought the goods.

Somewhat doubt it was Brian's idea... in fact, didn't Alan initiate the process himself ?

I believe he did AGD. But did he have to beg? Doubt  it. We know the results of the shows together all ready. Let's see what comes of the 2 remaining on the schedule. He has that true Beach Boy voice still, right?

Without a shadow of a doubt, Alan has the best voice of the surviving members, by a country mile.

I agree with you there AGD. He still sounds like he did on the original records. Then, of course, he didnt really do any damage to his voice throughout these years (or at least from what I know). Mike sounds rough at times these days, but he still has it, so does Bruce actually. But Al still takes the cake vocally

You took the words right out of my mouth

Oh, come on!  We all know it was Brian singing the girl's part on "Be Here in the Morning" and the vocals at the end of "A Day in the Life of a Tree," right?

Right?

Hello?

Is this thing on...?

I don't think that a band including Mike Love would ever do Smile. Maybe Pet Sounds, but not Smile.

Some are Brian and some Al. Like in 'Be Here in the Morning' Brian sing Ahhh, and Al sings most of the lead. Then on 'Life of a Tree' Al sings "Oh lord I lay me down..." and I believe Brian is singing doo doo doo. But Marylin might be singing some of that.
I don't know. That's just what I think it is.

I was just kidding before, making reference to longstanding debates here on who sang what.

For the record, I accept that it's Al singing lead on "Be Here in the Morning."

But it'll take a time machine and a trip to Brian's home studio in 1971 during the recording session for "A Day in the Life of a Tree" to convince me that it wasn't Brian singing "Oh lord I lay me down..."

Can't manage that, but would the word of someone who's heard the vocal tapes isolated out, voice by voice, and the word of someone who was there at the session, be enough ?

Hint - both of them are called Alan.  ::)

I guess so...
Color me heartbroken...   :'(

What about the "A Children's song..." tag at the end of Surf's Up '71?  Brian or Al?  Seems there's some confusion on that one.  The Desper and Carlin books say it's Brian, the record sounds more like Al to me.

My ears tend towards Alan too.

Yeah, I think it's Alan as well.

That's exactly what I meant when I said Alan "was just as important as the rest of them."  He's there singing the great parts and some never realized it.

That's funny. I'm listening to Surfs Up as we speak. And I think....it's Al.

Im pretty sure it was confirmed that the 'Children's Song...' line in Surf's Up was Alan. Forgot where...

It might have been from those old Rieley posts.

I think that's Al.

In a way it's kind of sad.  If there were one thing I'd wish it were Brian singing it'd be that one.  Just to prove he wasn't completely finished with that material.

At least we have the 2004 version, where he sings the whole thing!