The Smiley Smile Message Board

alright, so we know about the infamous party he held where brian met van dyke....

so i'm thinkin, he must be pretty hip to the LA music scene, but was he into the drug scene? i'm guessing he was really good friends w/ bruce, (havin that band and all), and bruce was anti-drugs, so was terry?

Given the prime reason for the Tate murders (not to mention the other circles he moved in), I'm guessing Terry was pretty much into 'experimentation'. Being friends with Bruce is kinda beside the point - after all, Mr. J. was in The Beach Boys.  ::)

I think Carl Wilson cited Terry as a bad influence on Brian in a magazine interview back in the '70s, if I'm not mistaken (Creem magazine?).  He later wrote a letter to the editor retracting what he said, but you have to wonder why he said it in the first place.  There was also the fact that Terry gave Brian a deal with Equinox records, for which he was payed somewhat under the table.  This was a time when Brian's family was trying to keep him from getting his hands on cash to pay for drugs, and the record deal undermined that.  It might not have been that Terry himself was that into drugs, but he certainly hung out with a lot of people that were and were also friends with Brian.  I don't think Terry was ever self-righteously anti-drug, that's for sure.

I think that was Sly Stone, not Terry. Didn't Carl claim Sly was tapping Brian for cash every week for drugs ?

The Equinox deal was very much on the table - 36 sides to be produced over an open-ended period of time with a generous poyalty rate, the advance being $23,000. Brian himself requested that the money be placed in an account where the rest of his family couldn't touch it. I'm not sure on this point but I think when it became evident the deal was never going to be fulfilled as contracted, the advance was returned.

Carl lumped Melcher in with Sly Stone and later took it back. I forgot which book had the exact quote, but forget marie is correct.

If Melcher WAS hip in the 60s and 70s, then what the hell is he doing collaborating with Mike Love in the 80s and 90s?

Putting bread on the table I suppose.

Doings drugs doesn't make you hip.

I was well aware of Brian's production deal with Equinox, but now that I read it in pixels two questions come to mind...

Could Brian record and release solo material (as Brian Wilson) through Equinox?
Could Brian use new compositions of his in his Equinox Productions?

Good point. As far as I'm aware, the contract with Equinox was purely as a producer. Of course, if he wanted to produce himself singing one of his new compositions (in fact he did cut a version of the then-unreleased "Ding Dang")...  8)

vdp worked for mike love in those latter years (on kokomo or whatever), and it's tough to get less hip than that. First of al, hipness is a fucking stupid, artificial construct anyway, and second, musicians need to work first and foremost. "hip" doesn't mean sh*t.

to me, i was meaning in 'hip' as in circa 1966 or so...like when brian was considered hip by the world....what's hip now is totally irrelevant

Truth is, it was then, too. Luther is right on. Nothing but a phony baloney mutual admiration society based on nothing of any real or lasting value.

My understanding is that doing drugs circa 1966 DID have everything to do with hipness, at least back in that era.  There was a counter culture that had it's own codes of behavior that, although they changed rapidly with the times, were as restrictive as the "straight" culture in some ways.  If you did drugs, you were hip, although you could be hip in other ways without doing drugs - Zappa was the very definition of counter culture in the 60's - a popular poster had him sitting on the toilet - but he didn't do drugs.

That's what makes being hip---in any time and by anyone's definition--such a piece of sh*t. It doesn't matter because all you have to do is follow someone's code. It doesn't matter. Fashion, antifashion...same thing, just different sides. Hip is bullshit. So whether Melcher was "hip" depends on who you are and what your definition of hip is.

Who decides what hip is ?

Usually people who proclaim themselves and their friends hip. I rest my case.

the writers we trust are the ones who decide

Well my point was that by the standards and codes of the time, as ridiculous and merda as they may be, Terry Melcher would have been considered "hip."

But many artists considered hip in one decade are reevaluated in another by different standards and go out of fashion, or in and out of fashion.  The interesting thing is that in the late 60's it was important to be considered "hip" and conform to the standards of hipdom - look what happened to the Lovin' Spoonful after they turned in their drug dealer - instant "non-hipdom" which had repercussions for them in business and artistically.

AGD, have you always had an Alistair Crowley quote with your signature? I just noticed it.

Sorry, that's OT.

Being Doris Day's son probably seriously cut into Terry Melcher's hipness potential, no matter who he hung out with and how many drugs he might have or might not have done.  Plus, he was so wholesome-looking.  And produced Top 40 hits for the Byrds, whose hipness quotient varied.  Being a target of Charles Manson might have increased his hipness, however.  By the perverse standards of the day.

No, not always. Changed it last year.  >:D

I think Terry presented a huge dilemma to the self-appointed hipmeisters of the day. On one hand, yes, he was Doris Day's son and associated with some unhip music... but on the other, he was seriously loaded with dosh and was an in to the music industry (I think he pretty much used Columbia studios when he wanted). The money and connections usually won out.

I'm going to tell on you to that Blueboard evangelist...  ;)