The Smiley Smile Message Board

Brian's social media team put out a statement:

Following the passing of Brian’s beloved wife Melinda, after careful consideration and consultation among Brian, his seven children, Gloria Ramos and Brian’s doctors (and consistent with family processes put in place by Brian and Melinda), we are confirming that longtime Wilson family representatives LeeAnn Hard and Jean Sievers will serve as Brian’s co-conservators of the person.

This decision was made to ensure that there will be no extreme changes to the household and Brian and the children living at home will be taken care of and remain in the home where they are cared for by Gloria Ramos and the wonderful team at the house who have been in place for many years helping take care of the family.

Brian will be able to enjoy all of his family and friends and continue to work on current projects as well as participate in any activities he chooses.

The Wilson family

There have also been reports that Brian is suffering from dementia but this hasn’t been specifically confirmed outside of quasi-tabloid sources like Yahoo and The Daily Mail, still it seems very likely given the statement. Damn.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/beach-boys-brian-wilson-suffering-004837002.html

Dammit

It's very sad if Brian is now dealing with dementia on top of the mental health issues he's battled for decades. Prayers for him.
But it's certainly nothing new for Brian to be under conservatorship.  Following the Landy debacle Brian was under conservatorship for at least a half-dozen years, until, if I recall correctly, it was determined that Brian, married to Melinda, no longer needed a conservator.
I assume that Carnie and Wendy (as well as the older "D" kids) are okay with Sievers and Hurd running things, because, as Brian's adult children they'd certainly be in a position to object if they were unhappy with the arrangement.
It's certainly not really any of our business as fans, but nonetheless, considering how normally chatty Carnie is on social media, I'd feel better about the situation if she'd chime in on all this at some point with words of assurance (e.g., "My dad is getting good care. Wendy and I are satisfied with his arrangements" etc.

Not the news I wanted to hear before I went to bed. I just hope he's kept as comfortable as possible.

We love you Brian.

My heart is broken

This article had a  lot info about it. Worth reading.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/beach-boys-brian-wilson-suffering-004837002.html

Hard to feel anything but sympathy for someone like him with all he’s been through and all the mike loves and landys and murrys mistreating him still always has seemed like such a sweet/kind hearted guy.

This breaks my heart.

Heartbreaking. Prayers for Brian and his family.

Indeed. One of those paragraphs in particular (in the Yahoo article) is very hard to read. I hope he can find happiness and comfort from his support group, family & friends who are all caring for him.

All the very best to Brian and his family as he faces yet another challenge in a lifetime of challenges with many success’s. He appears to have love and support around him and I think finally the ‘Heroes’ have far outnumbered the ‘Villains’.
Thank you for everything you have given us.
Love and Mercy

Well, Brian has reached a certain age when things like dementia become a possibility. I'm sure Melinda's passing also caused Brian to lose a lot of strength and that his body and psyche are not capable anymore to fight these things. I wish him all the best and hope that he can still live in a way that brings him some kind of joy and satisfaction. The man has been through so much. We love you, Brian!

I think we should be grateful that there are people around him that truly care about him and are looking after all of his best interests, both (and most obviously importantly) from a personal/medical standpoint, and also all the business stuff.

I don't want to go too much into it for many reasons, and I don't say this out of pedantry or anything else, but I know some folks have been hearing for some time now some details about some of Brian's challenges as described in this article. This is not, as far as I'm aware, an abrupt thing, but rather has been ongoing for some time. Melinda's passing is obviously just extra awful, awful timing.

I know that article and all of these latest court maneuvers and whatnot seem scary and traumatic, but from every sense I have, this is a best case scenario given all of the circumstances. Brian has a huge family and a business team that truly cares about him, understands his deal, and will act in his best interests across the board.

Love to Brian and family. This is, no doubt, a very difficult time for all of them. I hope they are able to maintain a standard of comfort for Brian.

Read about this a short while ago, have no words. :-( My heart goes out to Brian and his family.

Frankly, after Melinda passed I was halfway wondering if Brian might be going downhill, sooner if not later.

Sadly, via an email to The New York Times, Jean Sivers has confirmed the diagnosis. There will be a hearing on April 30.

Even before Melinda's untimely death, I wasn't expecting any recording or performance by Brian. We can't be so selfish. The man had earned his retirement. I just wonder if music will help him as therapy, as it did for Tony Bennett.

Last week it was Robert Wyatt. Now, Brian. So sad.

Ive been debating on whether to post this, but … I think this is the reason why his tour was postponed a few years back. I know there was a lot of debate on why he was continuing to tour , but I think now we know for sure .

This is extremely depressing but we knew this day would come eventually. Doesn’t make it any easier though

I’m not surprised since he had been showing signs in recent years.  I’m glad that of the 30 times that I’ve seen him perform, most of those nights were good nights for Brian.  He absolutely deserved every bit of his 23 year victory lap.  I’m also glad to see him surrounded by people who know him best and will make him feel comfortable in his current state.

This all makes me wonder. Not wonder about Brian's bravery and determination, for he has those to spare.

But I wonder about me, and about so many of us who wanted to see Brian do well. If I look back honestly, the shows I saw him do in 2009 were incredible -- the best ever -- but even the BB50 dates didn't quite reach that level. And everyone could see that he was lagging by the 2013 Beck tour, and each subsequent jaunt saw him do a little worse. Yes, he would rally time after time, and you could always see some of the old spirit and verve. But he was growing older, and the performances objectively declined.

Then we come to 2022, and anyone who saw those shows knew something was seriously wrong. Perhaps it had started a couple of years earlier with the back surgery, but no one could deny the difficulty that he now faced. And I just wonder. Should we have been firmer about pushing back from 2015-2019, when it was clear he was doing okay -- broadly speaking -- but going through the motions a bit at the shows? I hate to think that we encouraged him to go out when he was scared and unprepared and uncomprehending.

Who knows. Perhaps he wanted it. I'm sure at times he did. But I think those of us who love him, those of us devoted to this man's music, have to be a little self critical now. I wish it wasn't true. But it is.

I’m torn, myself. 

I see where you’re coming from, Wirestone. You’re one of the few in The Beach Boys world whom I hold a lot of respect/trust for your insights, information, and thoughts, so I do not take what you wrote above lightly. We care for and love Brian, and I think that’s why we’re so passionate about our viewpoints. I honestly don’t know what the right answer is, but here are my thoughts:

At the end of the day, it was up to Brian, Melinda, and his doctors. But ultimately up to Brian. I’ve heard it many times, and wonder how much of it is true, but the statement “Brian isn’t going to do anything he doesn’t want to do.” comes to mind.

If Brian was scared and didn’t want to face the fear, he wouldn’t have performed. If Brian would’ve rather stayed at home watching TV, he wouldn’t have performed. And honestly when he stopped touring most recently, I think that was Brian finally saying he had to stop.

Now, for those recent years he was performing, you have to ask, okay maybe Brian wanted to perform but is that in his best interest given his age, mental fragility, limited mobility, etc? I’d honestly say yes (and I wonder if his support staff including doctors also agreed with this). I’d imagine that those support people around him saw that Brian being active was good for his mental and physical health. You stay at home watching TV all day with no purpose you’re going to check out rather quick. I honestly think that Brian liked being on the road, and thus that’s what he did and it kept him active and alert and physically moving (even if it was from the bus to a chair). As someone watching a loved one currently die of late-stage Alzheimer’s, I can without a doubt say that I’d rather see this person out and about smelling the roses (while they can), than cooped up indoors watching movies on Lifetime.

No, I don’t think we should have been firmer in pushback. Why? Because we are fans who have no idea what is happening in Brian’s head, we don’t sit in on appointments with Brian’s support team at UCLA. We aren’t Brian Wilson.

What I do know is that Brian’s path in life has led him to this point now. Brian Wilson, the once 300+ pound cocaine addicted, prisoner of Landy, mind shattered by LSD, hears voices of negativity, taken to court countless times, taken advantage of countless times, etc etc…that man is still alive at 81. And for the last 30 years he has been on a healthy course of life: making music, putting smiles on countless audience goers, facing his fears. And that path also includes his last years of touring.

No, if collective “fans” had any say in how Brian had run his life for the last 30 years then I doubt Brian would be alive right now. I think everything that happened to Brian was meant to happen to Brian - the good, the bad. But the last 30 years, at moments sometimes imperfect, I think have been the best situation Brian could have ever found himself in. And even his last years on tour, he was out there trying - trying to recapture youth? Trying to make his audience happy? Trying to live another day.

My thoughts exactly.

Thank him

About the back surgery aftereffects, which Brian made clear in 2019, I remembered what happened to Peter Falk. I will paste the Wikipedia paragraph:

In December 2008 it was reported that Falk had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease.[62] In June 2009, at a two-day conservatorship trial in Los Angeles, one of Falk's personal physicians, Dr. Stephen Read, reported he had rapidly slipped into dementia after a series of dental operations in 2007.[63] Dr. Read said it was unclear whether Falk's condition had worsened as a result of anesthesia or some other reaction to the operations. Shera Danese Falk was appointed as her husband's conservator.

I am encouraged by the very final paragraph of Rolling Stone’s coverage on Brian’s predicament……

“I got to visit and spend time with Brian a few days after his wife passed,” Jason Fine, Wilson’s longtime friend who collaborated with Wilson on the documentary ‘Long Promised Road’, says. “He was sad, but typically stoic. We spent time watching clips from the Beatles rooftop concert. He told me he’d love to get his mind off things and go to a Lakers game.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/beach-boys-brian-wilson-dementia-conservatorship-1234969384/amp/

I'm encouraged by Jason's report.  Jason is a straight shooter.

I will always hope Brian enjoyed touring in his later years. This mischievous picture gave me hope. Calgary 2012 I believe.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m70jciE4cT1qa6myvo1_1280.png)

We love you Brian. Regardless of what happens in the future, and this news, you'll always be remembered as a genius who brought immeasurable love and magic into the world. Millions will carry the music you gave us with them for the rest of time.

I can't help but feel dread when I read this. It's such a terrifying experience for someone to deal with, and for those around them.
Prayers for Brian, his family, and everyone who loves him.

I made the mistake of going to The Beach Boys subreddit… some idiot is making jokes about Brian’s condition. Some people in this world are truly sick

Hearing that he has dementia made me very sad, too. Really sad news for all Beach Boys fans, to know that he will never make another album, never be able to give concerts again.

Concerts would indeed seem highly unlikely.  But as someone who was at one of Brian's shows in summer 2022, I'd say it was time to call it a day on those.
Albums?  Don't assume.  Brian managed to do "At My Piano" a couple years ago.  Do you know for sure that his cognitive state was markedly different then than now?  No, we really don't.

 It's been pointed out in other threads to keep in mind that legal pleadings are one-sided documents intended to persuade a judge to adopt the viewpoint of the party making the pleading. They do not necessarily offer a full and complete picture of the reality of a situation.  Melinda's death left a void in Brian's care.  I think everyone should be able to understand that.  Brian needs other people to help him with day-to-day life tasks.  Hence, this conservatorship process is playing out.  Think about it this way... if Melinda hadn't passed when she did, how much of this would be being aired in public?  Likely very little.  Ignorance is bliss, as the saying goes.

In any case, even if the absolute worst scenario were to play out, and there were never again anything new musically from Brian Douglas Wilson, I truly believe that the man has already given us more than enough... in a huge way.

After a long absence, I wanted to check in here to see the conversation about this development. It's very sad, but we've heard only good things about the people who will be taking care of Brian's needs moving forward. I suspected something was wrong (or that Brian had gone into some kind of decline, whether mental or physical) when whoever runs his Instagram account stopped posting new photos and posted only throwbacks. That was well before Melinda died.

I do want to say that the reports use the word "dementia," not Alzheimer's. Alzheimers is a type of dementia, but not all dementia involves forgetting who you are, who your loved ones are, etc. The word only refers to cognitive decline. That in itself is difficult to contemplate, but we don't know what Brian's specific condition is. It's possible he can still go into the studio if he wants to. I only say that because, as someone whose own parent is beginning to decline a bit, it's a good idea to keep the person as active and engaged as possible. Even if that just means spending time with his kids. Speaking of whom, I believe some of his and Melinda's kids are still quite young (still need care), and I'm thinking about them as well. I only want the best for Brian and his family. I hope they're all getting some comfort through music and leaning on one another for support.

Yeah it's unlikely we'll get much more from him.  Although he is slated to appear on that forthcoming Glen Campbell duets album as well as Fred Veil's country album.  Not sure when his parts were recorded (the Glen Campbell thing I believe was recorded after his last tour). 

I'm praying for the best

Yeah, Reddit is a cesspool. With message boards being so rare these days, unfortunately there are times where Reddit is the only place to look up certain things on certain topics/areas of interest, and on occasion I've found niche subjects covered on Reddit by actual sane, normal people.

But on the whole, any given fandom/fan community/group of people sharing an interest are about a hundred times more annoying on Reddit. So many people who don't seem to actual *get* the thing that they profess to be such a huge fan of.

It's fascinating to see Reddit continue to be so popular while web-based message boards have died out, because Reddit is pretty much formatted the way *very old, ancient* message boards were in the earliest days of the web (see: Beach Boys Britain board up to the very end), with the threading in particular rendering it supremely taxing to even try to read.

It seems to me that if Brian had been diagnosed with dementia, the court filing would have said so -- not that he suffers a "major neurocognitive disorder (such as dementia)". Clearly the filing needs to establish a basis for a conservatorship to achieve its purpose, and the legal hurdle to be cleared is that his cognitive challenges be in the ballpark of dementia. Presumably it's for the courts to decide if that's the case, but the filing tells us only that Brian indeed has such challenges, a fact that's been obvious for decades.

William, I was much of your opinion, but it appears we're grasping at straws. Jean Sievers confirmed to the New York Times that Brian is indeed suffering from dementia. He is also taking Aricept, which is a daily treatment to slow the progression of Alzheimer's.

I just wanted to resurrect this side topic because Reddit is set to go public this week with an initial public offering IPO to potential investors in an attempt to raise almost 800 million on a valuation of close to 6 and a half billion dollars. The killer app of Reddit obviously isn't the format or app itself, but the branding and umbrella-like control of the platform itself. No other online group discussion platforms had a brand identity like Reddit, where people could find any topic they were interested in discussing under the same brand umbrella. If you wanted to discuss the Beach Boys and then crypto currency and then how to fix a leaky faucet, you could search under Reddit and find groups and sub-groups to do just that. I rarely if ever even go on Reddit, I don't read the Beach Boys related Reddit groups at all except in rare cases when something newsworthy shows up, and I also find the platform itself antiquated as mentioned above.

But users don't care that it's closer to a 25 year old text format than other platforms, I think they want the convenience of finding all this discussion under one branded umbrella platform and the standards are also lesser than on smaller individual forum hosts and platforms in many cases which can appeal to a lower common denominator.

I think they basically created a Pet Rock and are running with it, obviously if this IPO is successful later this week, it would show that people out there prefer convenience over quality and content, but what else is new.

You know, I think it goes without saying that most everyone who reads this board has had our concerns and worries about Brian, especially after Melinda's death and the reports of dementia or a dementia-like condition... and I don't want to sugarcoat the seriousness of all that, but seeing Carnie post the following instagram today, I am once again reminded that BW, in addtion to being a musical hero, is the ultimate survivor...

Eating!  :lol
No change there then. He’s doing ok all things considered.

That's great!

Reading between the lines, it sounds to me like she expected a VERY rough encounter with Brian -- likely for good reason, based on their shared past -- and that it went much better than she expected.

And there's Brian taking in a Laker game over the weekend..
https://www.instagram.com/p/C5hJsU9u8sf/?img_index=1

(it appears that David Leaf, Brent Wilson and Darian S were part of his retinue)

Not gonna lie…it’s incredibly hard for me to see Brian like this. I know it happens to us all but that doesn’t make it any easier .

During my year long hiatus from the board, I experienced a number of personal setbacks , most of which I don’t care to go into publicly. One I will,  however, is the loss of my Aunt Dee, who raised me from childhood.  I barely knew my birth mother but Aunt Dee was my mother in every other way. She passed away just shy of turning 96 last March , and suffered from dementia the last few years of her life. I wouldn’t wish that on *anybody* , and to see one of my heroes in life currently dealing with this is harder on me than I can express.

Brian looks better than expected. I'm so happy to see him surrounded by loved ones and out having fun

Hey Billy, very sorry for your loss, and I definitely feel what you're saying. Dementia is terrifyingly cruel, and it is absolutely hard to see loved ones go through that. I also wonder how Brian's other mental issues will affect him during a dementia "decline". But I'm happy knowing that he will be given the best care during these years, and I'm also so happy to see loved ones surrounding him.

Thank you, Juggler, for updating us with the Lakers post and Carnie's post. Really makes me happy that even through the worst hardship, Brian is still singing and enjoying life.

Carnie Wilson Talks Singing Beach Boys Songs With Dad Brian Wilson After Conservatorship Filing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1abygPaCncw

Thanks, Rocker.  Great find!

Oh, that was so heartening to read.

Thanks so much for posting this. Steak, Mac-n-cheese, Dodgers games, and Be My Baby. What an awesome life update. Glad he's doing well!

The big guy is a survivor... and an inspiration.

There will never be another Brian Wilson.
And I am so happy for Carnie.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/04/21/beach-boys-tour-2024-phoenix/73375362007/

A Mike Love interview with a mention of Brian here

I saw a great picture of Blondie visiting Brian at home yesterday on Blondie's FB page.
Glad to see that those guys are still friends and that Blondie's still visiting.

Blondie is a great guy.

Not trying to start a Mike thread here, truly, but that article was interesting in that it's fascinating that Mike is still so sour, in fact seemingly *more* sour, on the "That's Why God Made the Radio" album now. I get his gripes, and I don't even disagree with all of them. It would have probably done the project a bit of long-term good to have just placated Mike and had he and Brian write a few tunes "from scratch."

But it's strange to have that specific perspective on that album. It clearly was made the way it was in large part because they didn't have a ton of time to finish it. And it's not as if there aren't other Beach Boys albums with *even fewer* Brian/Mike from-scratch collabs.

It almost feels like Mike is less perturbed that the album ended up with less Brian/Mike from-scratch co-writes, and more upset specifically that he feels like he was promised or strongly led to believe, at some point I guess, that the album would be focused around Brian/Mike co-writes. It's peculiar, because it sure seems like by the time they actual got the record deal, it was clear Capitol was signing them based on the bag of Brian/Joe songs, and also that given the amount of time they had to actually record the album, they would have to use those pre-existing songs as the basis for most of the album.

Again, not trying to inflame or stir the pot. I genuinely find this stuff fascinating, especially in light of things on a number of other fronts being relatively cooled off and amiable between the group members, and in terms of their feelings on individual subjects.

Credit to Mike, he's a professional at these promotional interviews, he sticks to the script most of the time and delivers the same answers consistently. It's not a criticism, but that interview posted above is like a carbon copy of interviews he was giving to promote his shows in 2014, 2015, 2016, and onward. He has his techniques down pat. In fact if someone wanted to, unless the links are dead by now, they could reference interviews from the 2014-2018 period and beyond and compare them, and a lot of it would be similar if not a carbon copy. Like I said, he's a pro at these press calls and has the lines down pat.

Yeah I didn’t want to comment, but it’s just crazy to me that at this late in the game he can’t let it go. I completely concede that I’m in the nosebleed section looking down at the situation, but I just can’t believe that Mike is still flummoxed that he wasn’t allowed alone in a room with Brian: Given the context of the plethora of lawsuits that happened relatively recently to this time, if I were Brian’s lawyer(s) I’d be making damn sure that Brian wasn’t alone with the guy who sued him multiple times for millions of dollars. And if I were Mike Love I’d think I’d understand why I wasn’t allowed near the guy I had just sued multiple times.

It is also perplexing that the guy can’t see one good thing in anything Brian has done without him in the last 40 years. He crapped all over Brian’s first solo album, he is still making sure people know he dislikes TWGMTR, his only comment on NPP was that ridiculous autotune comment. Not to mention his diatribes about Brian’s weight and prescription drug regimens. I feel like he’d get a lot more respect/admiration if he didn’t whine about this stuff and instead just let it go.

Well here he is giving a direct answer to a specific question so it would be dishonest not to share his true feelings about the period, though it would be nice to also see him recall the more positive experience he reported nearer the time of it feeling like 1965 again in the studio when they were playing back the new material.

As for him being allowed near the guy that he had sued multiple times, that was of course a choice for Brian and his team to make, but if so they shouldn't have misled Mike to believe otherwise, if that was the case.

And I think that's the rub, because from everything I've been able to gather, while there were initial discussions far earlier that maybe they’d record an album of oldies, once Mike entered into the actual reunion project, the parameters and plan were most likely pretty set. Brian and Joe Thomas had secured a new album deal based on songs Brian and Joe had written. They had X amount of time to both finish writing and finish recording the album, while also rehearsing for and then conducting a world tour. I don’t know, maybe much *later* in the process, after they had begun work proper on the reunion, somebody told Mike they would set aside time to write with Brian.

There’s also the possibility that what they ended up doing, namely handing Mike partially completed Brian/Joe songs, and having Mike add to or finish them off, constituted “collaboration” for some people. Mike’s got writing credits on four of the twelve songs.

Ironically, what almost surely would have allowed for more “from scratch” songwriting from Brian and Mike together would have been to not ditch the reunion so early. Had they regrouped for 2013, they could have continued doing more reunion tour legs while taking more time to do a *second* album where it would be more Brian/Mike material.

Imagine if things had gone just as they did, with Mike initially quitting the reunion and going back to his own thing, and then they had talked Mike into coming back and continuing the reunion by offering to allow for some substantial time for he and Brian to at least attempt to write some songs together. To be clear, I think the ship had already sailed on all of that. But it would be interesting to know if, either at that late juncture, or more so even earlier in the reunion project, things might have been different if they had essentially placated Mike and allowed for some “alone in a room” collabs. Especially when, even in that scenario, it probably would have still consisted of Brian *bringing in* partially completed song ideas.

I think the scenario lies somewhere in the middle of all this, as is often the case. Don't leave out the label's influence on the timeline when considering all of this, and how being presented with a handful of songs that needed touch-up work versus ground-up construction was probably a safer bet than agreeing to a scenario where a full album of newly written songs by two men who had not written together successfully in years had to be finished before any other planning would piggyback on the album's release date.

Simplistic terms: What ended up happening was Brian and Joe had songs to choose from, the writing process was mostly done and some if not most had frameworks of arrangements with demos to reference. Getting Brian and Mike in a room to crank out even a half-dozen new songs from scratch and then having them be good enough to release as a "reunion album" with a lot of hype and a major tour planned? Risky is the word I'd use, and corporate labels don't like risk of that sort considering they had been burned quite often by The Beach Boys since the 80's in terms of presenting releasable, marketable new material even when they were "hot" in 1989.

And timelines can change plans in the world of business, simple fact. If Mike's original notions of writing this stuff with Brian alone in a room from scratch didn't materialize,  that's how business works. And as has been mentioned, the teaser for this if I recall was a new version and revamp of Do It Again...going with the oldies concept...which also got scrapped and probably thankfully so.

Isn't It Time is one of my favorite TWGMTR songs, and I seem to remember it somewhat oddly went through some rewriting & lyric changes between the album version and the single version. (On the bridge, "we raise a glass to kindness" became "another day's behind us", etc.) Did Mike have a hand in that?

FWIW I seem to remember an insider's tweet (or whatever social media platform was used) back then saying that Brian and Mike would meet in the studio later that day to write a song. Couple of hours later the same person wrote it "didn't go well" or something to that effect. That's what I remember. It's possible that I am missing something so please correct me if I'm wrong.


Otherwise (I mentioned it before) the problem I see is that Mike just has to come up with better things than "spring vacation, good vbration", "We'll find a place in the sun where everyone can have fun [fun fun]" or those forced sounding ones like "we raise a kind to kindness" from the single version of "Isn't it Time". If that is what you bring to the table or what you come up with when they give you a chance to show what they would be missing out on, than that's not good advertising. He had a very nice song with "Daybreak" - although I'd wish they re-recorded it with only the Beach Boys - that had a reasonable good lyric.
In retrospect, and this is not only regarding the TWGMTR time, I think Mike's strength does indeed lie more with hooks than actual full lyrics. Listen to that great "bring back my baby" hook from "Daybreak". Or that cool bass line of "Isn't it Time" that he came up with as I understand.

Mike is a credited co-writer on both versions of "Isn't It Time", so I'm not sure if he made those later changes for the single version, or if it was by committee. The recording of that version seemed to be hasty; I recall seeing pictures of Al in the middle of the tour recording his new vocals like in a hotel room or something like that.

I have also long suspected that something changed pretty late in the reunion project concerning Mike's feelings about Joe Thomas specifically. Even *during* the tour, he was praising Joe. Then later on he seemed to develop a negative impression of the whole project, and I think when he says he didn't get to write alone with Brian, what he's maybe actually trying to say is that he was perturbed that Brian and Joe wrote most of the album. And I think maybe something soured Mike on Joe later in the tour, and that only made his negative feelings about the album stronger.

I recall at some sort of book reading/signing for his book a few years later, someone reported he implied some negative things about someone that seemingly only could have been Joe Thomas.

Keep in mind of course that Joe Thomas was a partner with Mike and Brian in "50 Big Ones Productions" that ran the whole tour. Thomas was deeply intertwined into the creative and business aspect of the album, and in the business aspect of the tour (and subsequent products that came from it, namely a live double album and two DVDs/Blu-rays).

IIRC I think Mike was publicly mocking Joe for his (supposed) fear of air travel.

I recall Mike mentioning it, but I don't recall him mocking it, but rather expressing some level of frustration or exasperation about it. Whether that was justified or not is of course up for debate I suppose.

Yeah my memory is rather hazy on it. At the time I remember thinking it was rather uncool to air that kind of laundry so publicly, which is probably why I relate it to mocking. But yeah I can’t remember exactly what he said.

I had always assumed that "raise a glass to kindness" was a Joe Thomas line, loosely grouped with:
- "through the consequence of the wine"
- "summer wine, our favorite time"

And possibly one or two others.

I have always been curious about Mike's  penchant for writing "in the same room" with Brian.  I mean know they have done that in the past (The Warmth of the Sun comes to mind), but just once I would like one of these interviewers to ask Mike why that stipulation is so important to him.  Some of their greatest songs were in fact written the exact way that Mike now apparently despises.  Mike's  legendary tales of dictating the lyrics to Good Vibrations to his wife while driving to the studio and writing the lyrics to California Girls outside the recording studio being two examples.  If that worked so well on those classics, why is it so offensive now?

It's a psychological if not publicly convenient crutch that Mike has leaned on for decades in many interviews, to set up the imagery of that mythical room with a piano and a notepad where he and cousin Brian could write songs like they did in the old days. It allows a lot of the reality of various situations through the years to morph into a mythical place where everything would be OK if only they could get into that room alone and write. It's been discussed among some of us fans for years, and it's a bit melancholy and sad to think how much weight might be put onto that scenario by Mike, but it also puts the reality of the situation front and center, where if Brian wanted to write with Mike he would have done so. Contrary to some mythology, including from Mike himself, there was no one or nothing stopping the two men from writing together for the past 25 years. Pick up the phone and call, then the answer is either yes or no.

I’m paraphrasing here, but Brian was pretty adamant in ‘his book’, not the Landy one, that he just didn’t want to be ‘in a room’ writing songs the way he used to. It was not how he wrote songs nowadays. I think that went for anybody, not just Mike.
I don’t have my copy close by but someone can find the section I’m sure. It’s the 2011-2012 timeline from memory.

This is what kinda irks me about his answer to the question about TWGMTR: instead of focussing on the positive and getting people interested in the album to help sell a couple more records, he instead focuses solely on his complaints. It was their highest charting album since 1965 (and yes to anyone with a bone to pick about this statement I'm well aware that the chart placement process has changed since 1965, not the point it's just a neat factoid about the album that creates buzz) and ‘Daybreak' is a really good song (seriously this song is amazing with headphones and the harmonies are incredible) and one that Mike should be proud of, so why not say something positive about that?

He starts off answering the question with "Well, I don't know what to say about that in a positive way" as if TWGMTR wasn't their highest debuting album of their career, or as if it wasn't incredible that a new era of fans got to hear some great new songs and Mike vocals? I'm not saying he can't complain, but his answer is so disingenuous to the fundamental reality of the album/situation - if those are his true feelings he really needs to do some TM/Introspection on why he can’t see anything positive in how that album turned out.

Agree with all this for sure. But as we all know, Mike is always going to feel awkward at best looking back at the TWGMTR album and the 2012 tour. From his perspective, he wants to be in charge of the touring Beach Boys and to run them the way he sees fit. Praising a successful Brian-led album and a reunion where he wasn't the star is never going to sit right with him. I obviously agree there are ways to give a more balanced answer.

It's honestly a shame he feels that way, because I think if he were more balanced he'd get a little more sympathy or understanding from fans (because he has had some legitimate gripes over the years). But his opinions/outlooks are so negatively direct that they become instantly divisive (for both the people he is talking about and the fandom). But that's Mike, and I've never really expected him to change much.

Just logging in briefly to share a Mike/Brian story – one I haven't shared before, and one that underscores, I think, the point so well made here:


My wife and I were lucky enough to get meet-&-greet/soundcheck tickets for the reunion tour when it came to our area. I’ll admit that I was a bit shy and tongue-tied when we were ushered over to “meet” the group. My wife, however, had no such problem. She stepped right up, stuck out her hand and said “Hi, Brian.” He shook her hand and said a quiet hello back.

At that point, Mike turned to her – I know this sounds like an over-the-top bit of corny dialog from a movie or TV show – and said “What am I, chopped liver?”

I think back to that moment from time to time. And I imagine that same scene (or one close to it) being played out again and again, in city after city. There it was, in that half-joking response: all that resentment and pettiness, right there on public display. And you can readily imagine those feelings building over time throughout the tour.

I’ll admit to something else: right after the concert – which was terrific – part of me wanted to believe that the Beach Boys were back in business as a dynamic, living band. In retrospect, that meet-&-greet interaction should have told me I was just dreaming.

C&N

My late mother who was approximately the same age as ML used to like the. "What is .... ? Chopped liver?" line, too.  I believe it was popular slang when they came of age in the 1950s.  I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it.  Very often the line is uttered ironically, without malice, in a self-deprecating way  Sure, on some level Mike msy have bee slightly resentful of a situation in which he perceived that a Brian-adulating fan was ignoring him but he was very likely just trying to be funny.

I think Brian probably wasn't into writing "alone in a room" with Mike, for possibly personal reasons and also because that's wasn't his regular arrangement with all writers. I think he probably wanted to throw in-progress songs at collaborators and have them just add some stuff sometimes.

*But*, I do think it wouldn't have been the worse thing in the world to suck it up and write a few with Mike the way Mike wanted to do it (which, as I've said, would almost surely still have involved Brian bringing some partially-completed compositions to the room; I don't think he would have needed to literally conjure songs up from complete scratch). Or at least try. I honestly don't know how much Mike complained *during* the project about not getting to do it, or if he just saved the complaints for afterward.

It remains an open question as to whether taking a week or something to try to write "alone in the room" with Mike would have made Mike feel a lot better about the project.

As I mentioned before, I didn't want to turn it into another Mike gripe thread. I honestly think his complaint, *on its face* is not 100% invalid. I certainly would like to hear what Brian and Mike could have come up with. I'm not or wasn't convinced they had zero chance to do some good stuff.  That being said, I think the complaint has some subtext that goes beyond literally being perturbed he didn't write alone with Brian. I think that complaint springs from a large series of things he took issue with regarding the reunion. The whole thing went sour, and then a list of grievances began to take shape. Sort of like a couple breaking up and then listing off a bunch of stuff that weren't deal breakers but become part of the list of complaints in the aftermath. "And another thing, we always had to watch the movies HE liked!!!!"

Could be. Still sounds terrible. But it takes not away from my point that Mike just hasn't delivered the goods (regarding lyrics) that would make him the guy you would want to write lyrics for the songs.








"And you never paid for the drugs. Not once....."





 :lol

Oh, no question, it was a common phrase back in the day; I’m quite familiar with it. Mike’s remark was pure old-fashioned borscht belt humor – like the little digs the two lead characters toss around in The Sunshine Boys. But in my experience that kind of comment, played for laughs on the surface, always has a core of seriousness inside it; in fact, I think you can make the argument that it depends, for its full effect, on that little bit of “edge.” Every time I heard it used, at a family gathering or social function, the speaker was making a point as well as a joke.

It seems to me that you would offer it up only if you were already looking for a slight; it's not as if Mike was being ostentatiously ignored. And I can tell you that while it was obviously a species of witticism, it wasn’t delivered in an especially good-natured way; and nobody within earshot (including Al and David) reacted with a laugh or a smile.

I guess (as those same borscht belt comedians might have said): you had to be there.

It seems that the whole reunion thing was rushed. They should have taken more time on the album, allow for more involvement from Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. Instead, what we got was essentially a latter day BW album with Beach Boy vocals on it.
They also should have spent more time rehearsing the new songs, integrating them into the live show.
When was the last time any of the touring bands played TWGMTR songs? It's an album they all seemed to forget about quickly.

In a “normal” scenario where there wasn’t always the fear that the entire thing could fall apart in the blink of an eye, yes, they should have taken more time.

But the reality is that the whole reunion project had a lot of stops and starts even on the accelerated timeline (I don’t think a lot of the backroom stops and starts have even been discussed; it’s beyond just the issues Mike brought up in his book), and if there was no ability to stop and take time. Mike was literally hitting “pause” on his own touring deal to do this, and he didn’t have a ton of time off the road after his 2011 tour dates ended in order to even *record* parts for an album, let alone start *writing* stuff from scratch. Indeed, I think Mike actually did at least one gig with his own “Beach Boys” band in 2012 *before* the reunion tour started.

I think the only way we were even going to get what we did in 2012 was with Joe Thomas and Capitol and the tour apparatus literally *pushing* these guys out the door as quickly as possible to get it done.

I think, given the amount of time they had, they pulled the album off pretty well (it’s not like “Summer in Paradise” or “Still Cruisin’” felt *more* collaborative), and even more so with the tour. They did an excellent job of bridging the gap between Brian and Mike’s band, both in terms of musicians as well as setlist and arrangement choices. And it did evolve as the tour went on; they added more songs and changed more songs up.

Had they continued in 2013, I think the live show could have gotten *even better*. We could have gotten a full “Beach Boys” live version of “Pet Sounds” for instance.

As for TWGMTR tracks on subsequent tours, I believe Mike kept doing “Isn’t It Time” with his own band for some late 2012 dates (and possibly into 2013?), and that was it for Mike. Brian did “That’s Why God Made the Radio” and "Summer's Gone" on his first short tour with Al and Dave in 2013 (they also briefly brought back “Your Imagination!”), but they got dropped from most setlists when they had to shorten his setlist for the 2013 joint Jeff Beck tour (I think "TWGMTR" still made it into a few of the joint Beck shows). And then Brian did “Pacific Coast Highway” and “Summer’s Gone” for that one 2014 gig at the Venetian for PBS.

Mike's Beach Boys did "Isn't It Time" sporadically through 2013; I see June and July clips on YouTube. Even back then, let alone today, I thought the context re Mike and TWGMTR made it a really weird choice ("hey, you know that album I keep dissing constantly for some reason? Well, here's the song you want to hear from it!").



That's a bit poignant and painful to think about, and you're absolutely right.

Tying your last few paragraphs together, I was at the NYC Brian/Jeff Beck show in 2013, when Brian shocked all of us by announcing he and band would play the entire Pet Sounds album. They did, and it was amazing! Now imagine the roof blowing off the place if that had been announced at an **actual full lineup Beach Boys reunion concert**. Damn.

Yes a missed step for sure. 2013 could have been built around a ‘Beach Boys Present Pet Sounds Live’ tour similar to Brian and Al’s 2016 tour.

The album and tour were outstanding. We were lucky to receive what we got.

The only downside was the lack of a definitive filmed document of a show, but you can’t have everything. In hindsight, I think I choose to draw the curtain of my fandom there.

Some peculiar stuff went on regarding additional video/film documents of the tour. The Hollywood Bowl show was supposedly shot in *3D* for a prospective theatrical release that never happened. The Red Rocks show was supposedly shot by a full video crew (beyond the normal in-house video stuff).

Then there was that tour documentary/video project that was done through a Kickstarter-like service called "Pledge Music", where a lot of us contributed money only to see the whole thing canceled around a year later (though everybody did get a refund). I recall somebody doing some sleuthing on that project and found that some of the people tied into it had had other legal/business problems.

All of this in addition to many if not most shows on the tour surely being captured by in-house video.

And of course the ideal scenario would be to get the second-to-last date at the Royal Albert Hall on video, as that was the gig where they did a full 61-song setlist featuring every song that had been performed on tour. It's unclear how much of a full-blown pro shoot was done for that, but it was shot in some capacity based on the camera mounts on the mic stands, etc.

Second best scenario would probably be the final night at Wembley, where they did a nearly-complete setlist with around 55 songs, and that one was surely captured as it was put up on the video screens.

Unfortunately, the sync rights to clearing 61 songs for a video release would dictate a Blu-ray of it would probably need to cost $100 (which of course *I'd* gladly pay).

In a pinch, I wouldn't even mind just getting all of whatever gig it was that the used for that 21-song "In Concert" Blu-ray (was it one of the Arizona gigs?).

As it stands now, the longest available pro-shot document of the C50 tour is the Japan gig that was shown on Japanese TV, and even that one only seems to circulate in not-so-great SD despite being shot and broadcast in full HD, and it *still* wasn't the full show.

But it would be nice to get a nice 3-CD "Complete" audio document of the tour at least, and any audio releases from that tour would not be cost prohibitive.

I have to wonder if some of the projects stalling out might have to do with Mike souring on Joe Thomas for whatever reason, because I'm guessing that Joe is a 1/3 business partner in most if not all of the reunion-related projects, including pro-shot videos of gigs.

Ironically, we're at a point in BB history where Mike is probably more enthusiastic about issuing 70s material than more material from 2012.

Yeah, that 50th anniversary tour band was, as was put back then, an "embarrassment of riches." Brian's band plus the best from Mike's band.

And I'll always be grateful it happened.

But while it does no good to dwell on it, part of the history of the saga will always be how the greatness of that tour and reunion were pissed away, and we all knew that things would not be in good enough shape for them to try it again TEN years later for a 60th. And sure enough, subsequently, Brian's not in touring shape, and frankly Mike's sounding pretty rough at his gigs. Multiple people from the backing band have passed away, others have left or been let go. Obviously, this is partly just a consequence of time. But it's worth noting that as of the second half of last year, there is essentially *nobody* from that amazing 50th anniversary band currently touring in a band on any sort of regular basis playing BB music. Totten and Cowsill aren't with Mike anymore, and of course Brian isn't touring anymore, so his guys aren't out there. Al sometimes uses Probyn for his gigs, but Al is only doing a gig here and there.

Some sort of "The Brian Wilson Band" with Al fronting it could have worked, and I think still could, but I think even the time for *that* may have passed, if it was ever logistically or financially feasible in the first place.

Thankfully, the excellent archival releases over the last several years have been the deserved focus of the best that the "Beach Boys" brand still has to offer.

Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way he feels.  But considering that the album turned out far better than it had any reason to be and ended the band's recording history on a great note, Mike is probably looking at this the wrong way. 

And I believe things worked out well the way they went.  Following the 50th reunion Brian put out a pretty satisfying solo album with No Pier Pressure and Mike himself became quite prolific putting out several better-than-expected solo albums as well as a Christmas album.  And Al's doing OK continuing to perform and occasionally release a never-ending parade of reworked versions of "Waves Of Love". 

So while the reunion wasn't perfect and ended a little bumpy (which should always be expected with this band), I can't really complain with the way things went.

I think that what happened in 2012 is nothing short of a miracle, and we should all be grateful to Joe for having such an important role in that... whatever I, and some other people, may think of his production style.
Sure, it did not end so well, but I agree that it was only to be expected from our sublime but ever dysfunctional Beach Boys.

The latest on the situation. Nothing unexpected, and it sounds like everybody is on the same page and in agreement:

https://apnews.com/article/brian-wilson-conservatorship-beach-boys-be53d427864ea9a32d3b4d438625683e

The "TL/DR": The conservatorship has been granted, and everybody seems to be on the same page, including all children (including Carnie and Wendy). There are a few details in the article based on a court-appointed attorney who visited with Brian. It's about what you would expect given what we know. It's definitely a "could be better, but could be worse" kind of situation.

Sounds like all business and personal/medical affairs are as taken care of as they possibly could be, based on the information we have of course.

Honestly, that was a tough read. Oof. But yeah, it is what it is, and could certainly be worse. Thanks for the update.

Also from CNN:


Brian Wilson, Beach Boys co-founder, to be placed under conservatorship, judge rules


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/entertainment/beach-boys-brian-wilson-conservatorship-judge-rules-intl-scli/index.html

As one of the younger members of the board, I have been thinking a lot about the recent events with Brian. How I feel about them, why I feel how I feel... etc.

Obviously, this is sad news. Horrible news. I wish Brian could be in his 20s forever and make music for the world until we somehow manage to destroy it.

On the other hand, there is a huge feeling of privilege on my part. I understand how lucky I was to get to grow up with the Beach Boys like many of you did... to get to see Brian live many times, experience Smile's archival release, the 2012 reunion and album...

Three of my four Grandparents left us at a younger age than Brian is now, my most recent loss saw my Grandfather suffering with the same situation Brian is in now with his diagnosis. I'm lucky to still have a fantastic Grandmother to spend my time with, and I feel the same way about Brian. Very very lucky that I got to experience all these great memories. I hope he can find some joy in whatever he has left.

I know he probably won't be making much of any music anymore, it'd be a fair assumption. He's given us so damn much.
Really complex emotions, but I suppose I am trying to stay positive with such negative news in the past year.

Someone send this to me and I don't know where to post it:


Beach Boys reunion teased as Mike Love, 83, and Bruce Johnson, 81, let plans slip


https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/us-celebrity-news/breaking-beach-boys-reunion-teased-32808496?

I think it's safe to assume that this couldn't be about anything more than possibly being in the same room/place at some point, as opposed to any actual "reunion" activity.

W/O Brian it wouldn't be much of a reunion.

Love told Radio 4: “He (Wilson) knows that he needs the help but we’re still able to get together and we‘re going to see each other soon.
"It’s not so negative as it sounds. As long as he’s cared for properly. He’s seeing his children… he’s being well taken care of.”
Bruce Johnston, another Beach Boys member, said he felt the documentary was like "a new beginning".
He added: "I think once Brian and Mike sit round the piano and just the magic, you can’t stop it”.
Love said they hadn’t had a chance to collaborate yet but “it’s a brand new day now and I’m hoping we can do something together - all of us - and it’ll be great”.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2vww4eqp7yo

still talking about sitting around that piano... ???

I've never had a problem with the idea of Mike trying to write again with Brian.

I think over the years Mike would seem to sometimes be more into *talking* about it than actually trying to do it.

But as a concept, how could anybody not at least wonder what they could come up with if they tried?

The problem is that this became a sort of sticking point or talking point for Mike surrounding the aftermath of the reunion project, and I think most fans tend to feel the way I do, which is that Mike and Brian collaborating is a great idea, but it shouldn't be what doing an album or a tour is contingent on. And, to be fair, I don't think it ever was. I don't think Mike not getting to write with Brian was *the* reason the reunion fell apart. That's a much more complicated story of course.

As for *now*, I think that's a big open question with not a lot of potential affirmative outcomes. As best as I can tell, Brian is probably in a state where he can still "do" music. What exactly that might entail, I don't think we know. It's been well documented that even people with degenerative/cognitive issues can continue to sing and play to a surprisingly high standard. We've seen this with examples like Glen Campbell and Tony Bennett. But that seemed to, as far as I can tell, entail performing old "standards" that were very ingrained/etched into their musical memory. So with Brian, if I had to guess, I think for quite some time he'll probably be able to remember and sing and play tons of songs when he's having a good day. But can he (or does he want to) write new songs, or even workshop incomplete or old compositions? I don't know. Maybe Brian doesn't know.

What I do know is that, even going back over the last 25+ years, Brian has needed a sympathetic, empathetic writing partner that knows how to work with Brian, who knows how to capture and take note of what he puts down. It sometimes might entail, as Joe Thomas apparently did in the late 90s, taping numerous short-form, maybe sometimes stream-of-consciousness pieces that might be able to be further refined, compiled, etc. And *that* type of process is not something that seems to have ever been something that Mike Love can facilitate. In other words, *if* Brian is in good enough shape these days to have a good day where he could sit down with Mike and riff on some stuff an "see what happens", they'd probably need a third person there, either during or certainly after, to refine what they do. I'm sure someone like Darian could do this.

To be clear, I'm trying to stay open minded and not make any assumptions one way or the other about Brian's condition. I'm not putting my head in the sand about any of this. I think it's possible that Brian's just not in good enough shape to do anything like this. That time may have passed. And, I don't even know how I feel about the idea of just taping Brian's every moment at a piano for the rest of his life and like having someone else try to stitch together things from that. But I'm open to the idea that he perhaps has good days where musical things could still happen.

Congrats for unraveling so well such a complex subject! You actually helped me to understand what I think of it.

Agreed, all good thoughts, HeyJude.

I posted this in another thread, but here's the Joe Thomas interview where he talks about how he and Brian developed ideas for the TWGMTR album:

https://notes.andrewromano.net/joethomasbeachboys

The process with Joe Thomas and Brian here sounds very much like what you describe... Joe kind of rolling with an open-ended, abstract, at times even slightly absurd process, helping to tease out Brian's ideas that might take weeks or months or years to fully develop. Kind of catching these little drops of magic where he can, and going wherever Brian's creative process goes, whatever that ends up looking like.

Mike is -- to put it mildly! -- not known for this kind of empathy and flexibility. And a process that sounds to Brian like "you and Mike are going to work together on Day X when he's not touring, and you'll go into a room at X time and come out with X number of songs" is certainly going to feel high-pressure, unnatural, and about a million miles removed from what Brian's comfortable with.

If it didn't happen organically or to Mike's satisfaction during the 2012 tour, it seems very, *very* unlikely to happen now.

The part of this which is hard to figure out in terms of Mike writing with Brian is that when reading through the Joe Thomas interview, Brian and Mike DID write together, and as others have said, in a way that's more in line with their previous successful collaborations like California Girls and Good Vibrations than Mike's ideal "room with a piano" scenario, or starting something from scratch. I don't know if Mike is/was looking for something to gripe about, or just bitching for the sake of it, but the Thomas interview clearly states that Mike and Brian co-wrote those songs mentioned, in the way they had done before. It goes against some of Mike's claims in subsequent years that he wasn't allowed to write with Brian, or whatever his claims were.

And I've also found through the years that those people writing here and elsewhere on the topic of songwriting and collaboration seem to have no direct experience either collaborating on an original song, working up a song and recording it in the studio, or other hands-on elements of creating original music. It's something Nik Venet even touched on during his testimony in court for the song credits legal case in the early 90's, and how the nature of making songs and making records is a unique process that involves ideas being thrown around sometimes randomly and haphazardly in order to create a finished song. If people have not experienced that process, and only take certain comments from books or interviews at face value thereby idealizing or simplifying the whole process, they miss most of the point.

If what Joe described isn't Brian and Mike working on songs together, i.e. "collaborating" to create finished songs, then someone needs to explain that one to me.

100%. To try to be fair to Mike, I think there is probably a subtext to his complaints, which is that the TWGMTR project was mostly formed without him. He probably feels like this has happened many times in the Beach Boys' career -- "OK Mike, here's what we're going to be doing, here are the songs in development, and here are the parts you're going to sing" -- and especially for a guy that is used to calling all the shots for the touring band, it's likely kind of a triggering dynamic for him.

But on the 'writing with Brian in a room' bit specifically, yes, it's hard to know how it could have been any closer to what Mike claims to want. It sounds like goalposts got moved, and most likely will keep getting moved no matter what.

On Glen Campbell's final tour, he performed a few songs from Ghost on the Canvas. I'm sure he relied on the teleprompters for those songs.

That Joe Thomas interview was tremendously informative and interesting – thanks to MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm for posting!

My reaction, reading it, was the same as GF’s: assuming the account is factual – no reason to suppose otherwise – I feel like what’s being described is pretty much the collaborative writing process Mike has so often and so publicly wished for. If I understand correctly, and if I’m remembering my Beach Boys history accurately, it seems to be very close to the dynamic that prevailed during the band’s early years.

Since it appears that Mike actually *got* the collaboration opportunity he wanted, I can think of two explanations for the fact that he continues to pine for that piano-equipped room.

Option one: the famous “room” is an idealized fantasy rather than a physical space. It’s like the sort of thing you hear from couples in a failing marriage: If only we could get back to the way it used to be, in that little studio apartment above the Italian restaurant, where things were simple and everything was wonderful. The person saying it knows there’s no going back, and – more to the point – usually knows that the day-to-day reality of that little apartment wasn’t so wonderful anyway. It’s an unattainable dream, a longing for something that can’t be had…and may never have existed in the first place. It’s kind of sad, really.

Option two: Mike is manufacturing a grievance, seeing a slight where none exists.

To my mind, the pattern of Mike’s behavior over the years seems to favor the latter. But in the spirit of charity, I choose to believe the former.

C&N

Yes. It's also worth noting that he learned and recorded those songs during the early stages of Alzheimer's. So he was still capable of assimilating new musical material and retaining it during that stage of his illness.

 "I'm Not Gonna Miss You" was recorded after he was done touring and was of necessity simpler material, but he was still able to at least briefly retain the words and musical phrases and turn in a good performance.

I don’t think Mike was/is manufacturing a grievance concerning writing with Brian. I just think it’s a bit of a stand-in or beating around the bush about the more specific grievance. And I think that grievance was, to put it bluntly, Joe Thomas. (And also Melinda, but I think the “writing alone with Brian” complaints pertain much less to her and more to Joe).

My guess is that what Mike is really referring to when lamenting not writing with Brian on the reunion album is that there are no “Wilson/Love” collaborations.

“Here Mike, Brian and Joe wrote 57 songs together and secured an album deal, now here’s a song you can add some lyrics to” is not the same as Brian asking Mike to help finish “California Girls”, “Good Vibrations”, etc. I suspect tracks like “Isn’t It Time” and “Spring Vacation”, etc. were not devoid of lyrics before being handed off to Mike.

So while this isn’t completely dissimilar to some of the writing scenarios back in the 60s for Brian and Mike, it’s probably Mike filling in lyrical gaps more than in the 60s, and he’s not working with songs Brian brought on his own. In the case of “Isn’t It Time”, Mike is adding to a song that already has *four* other writers on it.

And, I think what Mike is also referring to is Joe Thomas. I think it slowly irked him more and more that Joe was a co-writer on almost everything on the album. I think it irked him professionally/creatively, and also he probably also realized that Joe Thomas was collecting more songwriting royalties off the album than he (Mike) was.

I suspect, much like the project as a whole, Mike signed on at a point where he didn’t have this huge animus towards Thomas. I’m not sure precisely how that animus developed, because it seemed to have occurred literally *during* the tour. I don’t know if Mike just had slight misgivings about having Joe so heavily involved, and those misgivings just ballooned during the tour, or if there was some sort of inciting event that occurred that soured him.

I think the “writing alone with Brian” had less to do with the writing method or precise scenario, and more to do with being alone. Mike has gone on record that he has usually had “mixed feelings” about Brian working with other writers.

I think there had to be some cognitive dissonance though in getting involved in the reunion, because it was Joe Thomas that was a huge part in making it all happen. He helped secure a record deal. He helped secure the money and infrastructure to launch the reunion tour. And he was involved in the other ancillary products (two DVDs, the live album).

I think Joe Thomas teed up this big reunion project, with an album deal and a tour with advances ready to go, and Mike couldn’t turn it down. I suspect on some level Mike wanted to, or felt they should do, some sort of anniversary reunion project. As we’ve seen in interviews, his initial ideas in the years leading up to the 50th tended to involve one or maybe two shows taped for TV, not a 73-date world tour, a new studio album, two DVDs, and a live album.

I think Mike had to make a lot of concessions to do the reunion, a lot of loosening his grip on being in charge of everything, and he should be (and WAS) commended for that. But I think there was probably no way that sort of “power shift’ (whether we’re talking from Mike to Brian’s “camp”, or specifically Melinda, or specifically Joe Thomas, or all of the above) was sustainable. Mike clearly likes to do his job on his own terms. Is he willing to be passive and let someone else do stuff, is he willing to defer? Sure, but on his terms and by his choice. I think the reunion project was obviously a choice they all made in terms of getting involved, but once they signed on, Mike found himself having someone else to answer to in doing some elements of his job, and I don’t think Mike wants for any prolonged period of time to be *told* what to do. Again, I think he’s fine if Brian in the studio tells him to sing a vocal track again. But he doesn’t like the larger business machine telling him that they will placate him and let him add some lyrics to a song Brian, Joe, and two other guys wrote X number of years ago.

I’m not justifying or criticizing any of this really, it’s just how it was/is, as best as I can tell. I think Mike didn’t want to be the third wheel in a Brian/Joe/Mike “team”, but that wasn’t something he could bemoan for most of the reunion “year”, because Joe Thomas was a big part of making all of that happen. 

I think the reunion was so good on multiple levels, Mike should have sucked it up in order to keep it going. Would it have also been nice if Brian’s side did some things to, well, essentially placate Mike? Sure, especially if that could have helped the reunion continue. It wouldn’t have been the worst thing in the world to, after seeing Mike start to complain *during the tour* that he hadn’t had a chance to “write with Brian” the way he wanted (which meant “not with Joe”), Brian and his camp went to Mike and said “Look, let’s do another album, and we’ll set aside the extra Brian/Joe songs for now, or we’ll use some of those but we’ll stop and take more time and see if we can do some true Brian/Mike collabs.” And hey, even though their initial idea of a “rock and roll covers” album would not be my first choice, if offering to do *that* could have also helped keep the reunion going, I’d be all for that too. I’m not saying offering any of that would have saved the reunion. I think Mike just wanted to go back to being his own boss. But one can’t help but wonder if a ton of smoothing stuff over and extra compromises and negotiations could have allowed the reunion one or two more sort of “cycles”, to maybe get one or two more albums out of it, and another big world tour. An album and tour in summer/fall 2013, and then maybe another year of touring, and maybe a final album (if they had done the covers album first), and they could have wrapped this thing up nicely and nobody would feel like it ended prematurely.

But obviously, in 2024, we might as well be talking about the Monterey Pop Festival.

You make a very good point. Yet in 2006 when the guys got the platinum (?) records for "Sounds of Summer" on the Capitol Tower rooftop Brian reportedly gave Mike a demo of a new song and asked if Mike wanted to write lyrics and the latter declined - https://youtu.be/OTSeL27Wq00?t=126
It sounds like this could've been a Wilson/Love tune. Now, I don't know what Mike's reason is. I have my theory but it's just that.

Ah, I had forgotten about that bit from 2006. Good catch.

I think we can all deduce the likely list of reasons Mike didn't want to work on the song Brian suggested:

1. It may have been an existing co-write with another writer, and Mike clearly isn't into piggybacking onto songs Brian already wrote with others

2. It may have been something unlike what Mike was/is into, sort of like how Mike reacted to the sending suite on TWGMTR by pretending to shoot himself in the head in the Rolling Stone piece.

3. Maybe Mike just thought the song sucked. We'd obviously have to hear it to know. I don't think it's impossible that Brian might have tossed something towards Mike that was rather slight. But Mike I think would tend to like the slight stuff more than stuff like "Lucky Old Sun" material or "Pacific Coast Highway."

4. Related to some of the above, but somewhat distinct, is that I think Mike maybe wouldn't have wanted a collaboration to have a "Solo Brian" vibe, and in general he wasn't as into just guesting on each other's solo stuff.

5. 2006 was still a somewhat politically fraught time in the Beach Boys World. I think the Al lawsuit stuff had just very recently been wrapped up, and I think the "Smile" lawsuit stuff from Mike had only recently been shot down. I'm not sure what was still pending in various suits as of that date in 2006 (I think some of the remnants of the Smile suit may have still been lingering, but I'd have to re-check dates), but even if the slate was clear, the lawsuits were still pretty fresh at that point. It had been very recent that one of Mike's lawsuits had alleged Brian threatened to pull Mike's license and go out with Al as "The Beach Boys", and it was only months later at the end of 2006 that Brian did start doing some gigs with Al for the first time (though that all crashed and burned by mid-2007).

I think 2006 was always going to be a rough time to try a BB reunion, even if just Brian and Mike trying to write something. By 2011/2012, the lawsuits had been over for longer, I think Brian had kind of run through so much solo stuff that he was ready for something else, Al had been ready to do a reunion for years, and even Mike seemed to recognize the 50th would be a point to do *something*.

I think by the end of C50 in 2012, they all learned that a "reunion" could work, but that it looked and felt different than what some of them (Mike perhaps) might have thought or assumed or wanted. It's unfortunate that he used that information to reaffirm his thinking that he should just tour on his own, because I think they could have taken the information from the 2012 reunion to *refine* how to continue doing it in a way that would work and minimize the beefs.

A suggestion for the Moderators: this thread, which has a rather "unhappy" title, has been off-topic for a couple pages now. What about either:
1) Change the title.
2) Or "fork" the thread, separating the off-topic, but interesting and successful, posts?

I don't like the idea of being reminded of Brian's state, in the bluntest way possible, every single time I visit this forum, which is very often.

Agreed…. Might change to something else entirely but this should do for now

Thanks a lot Billy. :)

The DVD from that tour is real inspiring in places, and just plain sad in others.
Sure wish some genius doctors could find a cure for Alzheimers.
And cancer.
And AIDS.
I don't want much, just the whole world.