The Smiley Smile Message Board

Bit surprised when this popped up on my twitter feed -

If right wing pieces of sh*t like Guy Fieri and Mike Love would just keep their horrible views to themselves, no one would know how horrible they are. But this is an era where pieces of sh*t seem to *want* everyone to know they're pieces of sh*t. Fine. At least now we know.

It doesn’t even work as a joke. It’s a reference to a trans actress who did an innocuous tiktok sponsored by Budweiser. I don’t even use tiktok, it’s demographic seems to be teens to mid 20s but somehow conservative circles got wind of it and interpreted it as “BUDWEISER DOESN’T CARE ABOUT REAL WOMEN” or something like that. Doesn’t really make any sense but I’m glad Mike thinks it’s HILARIOUS (and also the government is somehow involved because he mentions the FBI? The whole thing is pretty dumb).

From what I've heard, Mike's been doing this particular joke schtick for a while now on tour.

He's been doing this for decades. Listen to the '93 Paramount "boxed set tour" show; he does a dumb bit about Clinton and taxes.

Thanks to Elora's great YouTube channel, we can also have easy access to things like this from the truly halcyon days of the year 2000:

"mike love rants like an insane person about good vibrations, weed + bill clinton" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_5pdlgIHM

His latest thing is just more of the same. Yes, it's dumb, and it's *needlessly* polarizing. And it's a straw man argument that I'm sure Mike doesn't believe, but thinks is funny (as one article points out, does Mike really think the FBI is going to bust him for performing "Surfer Girl?").

Nobody has ever stopped Mike from doing whatever songs he wants to, or from saying anything he wants to on stage. I've rarely seen such a privileged person who gets everything he wants have such a strong desire to still be aggrieved about something.

I’m confused. What did Mike say?

He's been telling a joke apologizing for "Surfer Girl" being gender-specific, nothing that needs apologizing for in the first place. Once he threw in some off-hand political BS., the joke absolutely fell flat in my estimation. Some people in the audience laughed, I didn't find it funny at all. I wish he would drop that joke altogether.

Heyjude, I agree that it's needlessly polarizing.

Edit: This seems to be the original article, which also references the Twitter item:
https://consequence.net/2023/07/mike-love-surfer-girl-gender-specific/

Folks, Mike Love is gonna Mike Love.  At 82, an old dog isn't going to learn new tricks.  Laugh, cry or cringe at his humor, but he ain't changing.

Much ado about nothing.  His joke, good or bad, was just a joke.  And no topic is above making light of no matter how "touchy" the subject is.  


I take it you've never been on Twitter before. 

Most aggrieved people on Twitter aren't multi-millionaires doing exactly what they want to do every day, exactly how they want to do it. There are some of those as well, sure. And yes, Twitter is awful as well for a myriad of reasons. If even there was ANY evidence that someone actually attacked Mike for performing "Surfer Girl", or tried to prevent him from doing the song, then his aggravation would be understandable. Even then, I don't know if telling a bad joke about it on stage *every night* for a period of time would be the best way to respond to it. But what's happening is Mike is "old man yelling at a cloud" rankled about another hot button issue, and is creating a straw man to argue against in order to do his HILARIOUS joke that is so funny that even people who agree with his politics are saying the joke sucks.

I mean, not even *the other Beach Boys* have prevented Mike from doing a song he wants to do. I don't think anybody else in the band was clamoring to perform "It's OK" or "Kokomo" or "Still Crusin'." And "Surfer Girl" is an especially dumb example to complain about, because when was the last time that song *wasn't* in the setlist? The 60s?

And you know what, I don't think what Mike's doing on stage is really a "joke." As in, he just thought of a funny joke and wants to tell it on stage. It's a topical comment on a clearly polarizing present-day issue. I think most or all of Mike's on-stage political "jokes" are born out of his personality and politics. This has only become more prevalent and transparently political (and conservative) in the post-2016 era as far as Mike's concerned. I think that was the point at which is was no longer a realistic possibility that Mike was even partly unaware of how polarizing his politics are. He no longer cares.

Yes, we should all be aware that, especially at 82, Mike Love is indeed gonna Mike Love. I'm not surprised by any of this. It's kind of fascinating to watch someone be unprofessional at 82 years of age after 62 years in the industry.

I guess he's gotta find an outlet for airing his politics on stage, as his previous go-to of doing political events with the "Beach Boys" name attached was shut down (no pun intended).

...or more realistically he's just poking fun at the whole Bud Light debacle because that's what has been topical lately.  He's been making politically-tinged jokes (for better or for worse) for decades now.  I don't think he's really "aggravated" about anything but was merely being facetious.  I think you and others are reading way too deeply into this.  Groan at his sense of humor all you want but he's allowed to make jokes, even politically sensitive jokes you might not agree with, all he wants. 

This is the same debate that’s been going on for decades among fans and scholars of the band. And it has multiple layers, because we’re not only parsing the motivation and beliefs of Mike Love himself, but we’re also getting into the credulousness of some fans. It’s not a coincidence that the more like-minded a given fan is with Mike as far as politics and general disposition, the more likely they conveniently seem to feel Mike’s just “tellin’ jokes” and anyone who thinks it makes Mike (and by affiliation the band) look like tools or creeps just “don’t have a sense of humor.”

What’s interesting to me is that this apparent credulousness has been much less believable in light of Mike’s own stated politics of more recent years. Mike has not backed off or become more chilled out about politics. He has become more aggressive, more willing to let there be no confusion about his political beliefs and affiliations. As the country has become *more* polarized, Mike has seen fit to “pick a side” rather than try to unite. His dumb “Surfer Girl” joke isn’t about bringing anybody together.

In short, I don’t believe Mike is just writing jokes about current affairs, with no political motive or motivation. His jokes are always about the old rich white dude conservative position. Not surprising given he’s an old rich white conservative dude.

But don’t let anyone ever gaslight you by saying Mike’s just working on his late night stand-up routine. These are political screeds, masked as passive aggressive jokes. That should be very, very apparent, whether you agree or disagree with his sentiment. And yes, on top of all of that, they are groaners. They’re never funny. That is also increasingly apparent, again even among people who might tend to agree with his politics.

That’s why I always find this stuff fascinating, when Mike comes across poorly because of *clear* political bloviating, and also isn’t even funny while doing it. It’s like the ’88 Rock Hall speech. A speech *like that* could have been a great, renegade moment. But he did in such a way that he just looked like a fool and went a long way towards cementing his image, as Rolling Stone put it to him a few years ago, Rock and Roll’s biggest a**hole.

Again, I would say that if anybody (or any organization) was calling on Mike to not perform “Surfer Girl”, then I’d absolutely find that ridiculous. But that hasn’t happened. What’s happening is that Mike is doing his usual lame schtick on stage, punching down, and assuming it’s fine because his audiences are like-minded and like him demographically. His audience skews much older and whiter than a lot of shows, so I’m sure there are fewer people offended by the sentiment of his joke. But ironically, even a lot of old, like-minded fans from what I’ve seen have found this latest bit just tiresome and needless.

Maybe when you’re 82 it’s easier to start doing bad political conservative stand-up rather than singing more songs.

Considering that this very thread started with someone whining about "right wing pieces of sh*t" (which is code for "how dare someone have a different opinion than me"), I'd say your point goes both ways.  Regardless as to whether or not I agree or disagree with Mike on any given topic, I found this joke to be kinda lame ultimately.  But a joke nonetheless.  Something not newsworthy or even worthy of the scrutiny of this message board.  Something that you either chuckle or groan at and then move on with your day unscathed.    



Not sure it would do any good to unpack the numerous overgeneralizations you are clearly making here about select groups of people so let's just stick with Mike:  I largely agree with you that Mike's jokes are usually lame and that regardless of his politics he says stupid things.  But Mike is not a prophet, a poet, nor a major figure in our culture.  He's a geriatric lead singer of a band that's been around for well over half a century.  As I've argued endlessly in this forum for years now, it doesn't matter what he says or thinks any more or less than anyone else.  Entertainers and public figures shoot their mouths off all the time and Mike is no different.  But this latest "controversy"...?  Hysterical nonsense.  Let it go, people.  If you didn't care with his rhetoric over these comments that's fine; but to try and treat such a throwaway comment as some deeper, malicious political scheme is complete ridiculous absurdity.  Mike's comments here are no different from the countless other entertainers that like to bombard us with their differing political opinions...either all of it is okay or none of it is okay.  

I've attended hundreds of concerts featuring performers making a variety of different political statements that I either agreed with or were completely at the expense of my own personal beliefs.  I either laugh it off or roll my eyes but either way I get over it.  No need to have conniption fits or make pretentious rants because somebody said something I didn't like or agree with.  If we could learn as a collective that very simple lesson we might actually get somewhere in understanding our differences constructively and bring the temperature down.  

I would respectfully disagree. Not all opinions are the same.

Not all political comments are the same.

Transgender people are real people. Punching down at them is a shitty thing to do.

Yeah, exactly. At the end of the day, as much as it sometimes seems more expedient, when discussing things on message boards, to be as dispassionate as possible when talking about something as inflammatory as Mike Love's politics and latest publicized nasty comment, and just try to look at the logistical drawbacks to making such comments (e.g. it's divisive and just unfunny regardless of one's views), this ultimate is Mike punching down at a specific group. It's Mike *actively seeking out* being shitty to a group that, as far as I'm aware, have not done any of the straw-man things he's suggesting. It's ugly. 

Again, if a group specifically said simply referring to the female gender in the now-60-year-old song "Surfer Girl" was not only wrong, but went so far as to call for Mike to stop playing the song, then I'd disagree with that. (Though I would still say making lame jokes about it at gigs would be truly dumb). But none of that has happened. There's nothing happening in the world right now that precludes him from the performing the song, and no evidence I can find that *anybody* has a problem with the song, or with songs in general referring to genders. Really, there are many, many, many songs with male and female name/characters/pronouns, etc. Like, almost all of them folks.

If you need further proof that this is a multi-tiered conservative political screed, see Mike's reference to the FBI. It's obvious what he's referring to. I'm surprised he didn't claim Obama and the Clintons were going to try to stop him from singing "Kokomo" too.

I dunno, things must be getting really boring out on the road these days for Mike.

"This Too Shall Pass" indeed......

No, not all comments and opinions politically or otherwise are created equal.  And it's usually a shitty thing to punch down on anyone simply over their differences.  But like it or not there are no sacred cows in existence in our culture that are impervious to criticism, disagreement, debate and even some ridicule.  Virtually everyone has been on the receiving end of a joke, be it fairly or unfairly.   That's neither a good nor bad thing; it's just the way it is.  You are allowed to question or challenge anything you want in life.  And when you have a subject as touchy, complex and as hypersensitive as the whole "gender identity" debate has become, you're gonna get a lot of hot takes, good or bad, from both sides of the discussion.  Which is why I take Mike's comments for exactly what they are: an ultimately trivial and pointless joke.  Nothing more, nothing less. 


Right - because he was being facetious.  Even if what he said was stupid and crass, virtually nothing that he said seemed meant to be taken seriously or literally.  Because that is what a joke is (even bad, tactless ones).  If you found his comments to be glib and insensitive I wouldn't really disagree, but do you honestly believe he was actually being serious here...?

Maybe I will switch to the other board after all. There, AFAIK, there is no HeyJude using "old"and "white" as insults.

Agreed. Hope everyone, here and elsewhere, are having a good day/night.

I wish the FBI would stop Kokomo….

👏👏👏

Sigh, here we are again. Another round of press like this, and yet another "win" for the Beach Boys brand. 🤦‍♂️ Really painful.

As I mentioned before, I don't believe Mike Love actually thinks Bud Light and the FBI are going to bust him for singing "Surfer Girl."

Beyond that, I'm not sure what "serious" means as it pertains to a perceived "joke." Do I think Mike was just telling a topical joke with no particular personal/political motivation? No, of course not. I've already said that.

I mean, you've either known people like this or haven't I guess. I don't see how it's such an alien concept that some people tell "jokes" that aren't really jokes (meaning, like a comedian just doing a myriad of topical and non-topical jokes), but are motivated by a personal belief/personal politics/some sort of axe to grind.

When Mike has done this, it's *always* topical, and it's *always* of one particular (general) political persuasion.

I've never been one to jump to assumptions or try to read too much into stuff. Sometimes when people tell jokes that don't land or have an apparent mean streak, there was no ill intent. Sometimes it's difficult to tell. And then sometimes it's clearly a pattern of someone's politics or beliefs, essentially the "joke" format as a passive aggressive way to rant or make a point about some issue. In 2023, knowing what I know about Mike Love, and being a student and scholar of this band and its members, which includes the things they've said over 60+ years, I'm quite comfortable putting Mike in the latter "rant" category.

Maybe Mikes worried if Budweiser suffers financially it will cut into his Be True To Your Bud royalties .I was at a concert where he told an awful joke about Puerto Ricans in the 80s . He’s not going to change and of course can say what he wants . That being said the world has changed and the way we joke.  Mike certainly can make the jokes but deserves any and all criticism he gets .

I posted this on the other board in response to a poster, who rather in good faith or not, insisted that Mike takes being cancelled and/or arrested by the FBI "seriously," because parents and teachers have been arrested for giving their opinions at school board meetings, etc. But, this pretty much sums up how I feel about the situation:

It absolutely is free speech, and as a libertarian, I defend his right to do so, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense. I haven't seen them live since C50, and have no interest, other than maybe an Al show, as his tend to be the most interesting, so misunderstanding on being forced to buy tickets or not.

Agreeable to what he's saying or not, this just seems like a total killjoy. Most people go to Beach Boys, Brian Wilson, etc. concerts to forget life for awhile and have a good time. Personally, if I want to hear political commentary, I'll go to see Anti-Flag, Bad Religion, War On Women, or any number of other bands that lean into that as part of their act.

Mike had to use some pretty clever mental gymnastics to work this stuff into the show. Absolutely no one has any interest in cancelling The Beach Boys over "Surfer Girl" or literally any other song in their entire discography, other than maybe "Hey Little Tomboy," Mike trying to tie the band into this culture war is as cringe as the new anti-war lyrics of "Make A Wish" on Gettin' In Over My Head.

Comedians are a different story. Most exist to push the envelope to a certain extent. By and large, The Beach Boys have never been particularly edgy, and Mike attempting to push them in that direction (especially with shoehorned, non-humorous whatsoever "jokes") with this topic, at this time, is very disingenuous to both their legacy and their longtime fans.

As an aside, the assertion that teachers and parents are being arrested by the FBI for stating their opinions at school board meetings and the like is absolute, and unfounded nonsense, to put it politely.

He made a joke about Puerto Ricans in the ‘80s? Wow. My wife is half Puerto Rican and therefore my daughters are also part Puerto Rican. So tell me, what was his “joke”?

Actually it might not be clear, it was not calling anybody “right wing pieces of sh*t.” They were quoting a Tweet which I had also seen from a person I can not remember. So let’s get that out of the way.

Also I am confused as to why “right wing pieces of sh*t” hurts you so much, but Mike’s words are fine? You’re hurt that somebody (nobody on this board) attacked your political beliefs it seems like. But if Mike makes jokes about trans or nonbinary people, they should just “get over it” you say? Hmmm.

Oh god, let me guess it was filleplage? ::)

Absolutely serious question: how on Earth did you guess that!? Haha!

I won't answer for anybody else, but there is a very specific gaslighting method that filledeplage had on this board of doing the most gymnastics possible to defend Mike Love against even the most mild of criticisms. Round and round and round trying to justify the stuff he has said or done over the years.

I think we've all, at least the folks that have been here awhile, we've all kind of learned to just ignore most of Mike's stuff. The days of calling Mike out in 1998 for being a "Fake Beach Boys" are long gone. It's usually easy to just let him be whatever he's going to be.

But still from time to time, new controversial comments come up. And they are discussed here, because it's on-topic and that's what we do.

I have no problem listening to Mike's work and giving him the huge credit he deserves. But I also have no problem, *when the subject comes up*, of dispensing with the bulls**t and getting down to brass tacks about the things he says. A few fans from time to time think Mike is being attacked. But *every time* these threads come up, it's because of a NEW interview, or report, or something he's said or done.

The only notable time things got stirred up without any triggering event was however many years ago when that British comedian came on and tried to stir up a bunch of stuff by fake-innocuously posting "Why does everyone hate Mike Love so much?." He did it to then harvest "anti-Mike" comments for a pro-Mike article he ended up writing (that hardly anybody saw because it was behind a paywall).

If they're going to do something other than just sing songs on stage, can they at least just go back to Bruce plugging Mike's Club KoKoMo canned cocktails?

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352487599_1457635981716503_8572226416797592247_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Zy2QPLFJp6IAX8XCjQj&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AfAToRRkhcbWDF8cf9UKlrEFh2AEgAgclqrcw_Pi6DGFEw&oe=64B36DAD)

Experience haha, been dealing with stuff like that since I registered in 2011!

Thank you for the clarification - I clearly misread what the OP said and thought it was coming from him.  So apologies for that confusion to the OP.  That said - neither comment "hurts" me; both comments were ultimately benign and stupid.  I was just pointing out some selective outrage going on. 

And yes - you can make jokes about anything you want.  Nobody is above a little mockery.  Whether the jokes are in good taste or not is entirely subjective. 

I would imagine Mike Love thinks this way too, which is why he so often ends up saying something that ends with many fans of the band (I'd say the vast majority in fact) disappointed and face-palming for the thousandth time.

I'm not going to bring up the million obvious examples, but is really *anything* okay to make fun of and attack? I'm not talking a legal right to free speech. Like, at what point would it veer into hate speech that you would denounce? What if he makes fun of people in the audience with disabilities? What if he makes fun of some specific ethnicity?

I think the point is that of course Mike or anybody can say anything they want, and consequently he'll have to deal with the reaction. Fans that think Mike's "just tellin' some groaners" are going to have to deal with the reaction. And frankly, the incredulous "I don't see the problem here" stuff about Mike's predictable continued series of face-planting comments and affiliations only grows more tiresome.

Thankfully, as referenced a few posts ago, I think most of that stuff went away when filledeplage and a few others were no longer posting here. 

I think fans who realize Mike says this stuff, and feels it's unfortunate, have largely stayed pretty relaxed about it after all these years. Especially long-time fans who know the history well. Folks who are familiar with Mike "screw the UN, they don't buy Beach Boys tickets" Love defending playing Sun City (though the other guys in the band went along with it as well, well aside from Carl who was out of the band at the time), and Mike "I'd like to see the dead John Lennon match our touring schedule" Love cementing his reputation at the '88 Rock Hall induction. And the list goes on.

Even after all of this, I still celebrate Mike and his talent and place in the band's history. I've learned over the years to just divorce the good stuff about Mike Love from the continued disappointing moments. But it doesn't mean we have to just ignore it or dismiss it. I'm fine just talking about it, noting it, and moving on.

There's also the issue of stepping on the performance of a classic song like Surfer Girl with this nonsense. Like, Mike is the ambassador of the Beach Boys brand in 2023... he really is. He could preface Surfer Girl with a story about him and Brian writing and arranging the song, memories of their early days of fame... really anything at all with emotional resonance for the fans. Instead he chooses... this.

Oh yes, absolutely. Separate from the specific topical nature of the comments, it's just bad showmanship and unprofessional and distracts from the music. It's strange, because Mike always prides himself on being like *the* frontman.

An easy test: Imagine a reunion tour where Brian does a long, protracted bit about how insipid and banal and dorky "Full House" and John Stamos is, like as an intro to some random song. Can you imagine Mike being okay with that? Or what if Al Jardine did a drawn-out bit about how awful Donald Trump is, right before performing "Help Me Rhonda." Would Mike be okay with that?

I only draw the contrast/comparison as it relates to the unprofessionalism and hackery that's involved in unsolicited and unprompted diatribes.

I'm not comparing razzing John Stamos (a privileged contemporary/friend of the band) to Mike's literal punching down in his "Surfer Girl" bit, which I find morally far, far more repugnant. The latter is far worse in every way. But both would be a dumb distraction to a show, and Mike I think absolutely would selectively put up with the latter but not the former.

I mean, it's been well-known since the '80s that the Beach Boys are to the right. They popped up with Reagan.

Even Brian told an interviewer in 2008 that he planned to vote for John McCain because he made Brian feel "safe."

So I don't think this has much to do with politics. It's just another example in the larger saga of how Mike wants to present himself and his band as the Beach Boys.

I was listening to Beach Boys Talk last night, and Nelson Bragg noted on his episode that the C50 tour was one of the TOP 10 tours in 2012. The band came in at number eight or something. The fact that Mike willingly turned his back on that -- selling out amphitheaters and other giant venues, making loads of cash, and having high-profile opportunities everywhere -- continues to resonate.

Mike wants to tour at a level where he can peddle whatever he wants and face no pushback. Like it or not, that's more valuable to him than his bandmates or the music itself. At some level, he likes shooting himself in the foot.

He's a talented dude, a great singer and outstanding lyricist when he puts his mind to it. He was by far the nicest of the guys when I met them all backstage in 2012. He's probably the one it would be most fun to have a beer with. But Mike's management of the brand on the road leaves so much to be desired.

Mike could tell a story about Brian and him writing and arranging Surfer Girl but it was entirely a Brian Wilson creation words and melody

Sure. I was intentionally being a bit generous/Mike-friendly in that phrasing. But I still feel certain he could tell a story about the song's creation if he wished. Maybe about the harmony stack they created in the studio?

Or, no story at all -- that's fine too. Just sing the damn song and give it some respect.

I'm not trying to dogpile on everything Mike does on stage, but he has often (perhaps not always) not been great about telling Brian "stories" on stage at his own shows, and/or speaking of Brian in general. Meaning, *many* folks I've talked to who have seen Mike's shows have come away feeling like Mike talks about Brian as if Brian's dead, and has been dead for awhile.

It always seems nice at first when you hear Mike talk about Brian, especially in the last 25-40 years when they've usually been somewhat estranged. But there is almost always a weird kind of hedge to it; there's always a tone of "this is how he was; he isn't like that anymore", a lot of speaking about him in the past tense. The best you often get is stuff like that 1998 "Endless Harmony" interview where Mike says something about how "Brian had a great gift for arranging vocals", and then adds "still does", as if he's surprised and for once actually thinking about Brian *in the present tense* instead of just thinking about how "Brian was great back when *I* was part of his life."

Mike *very briefly* got partially out of the mode during the 2012 reunion. He had a similar "surprised" tone to reacting to Brian presenting the group with "Think About the Days" in 2011:

“When he first started playing the chord progressions,” Love remembers, “I was standing there, thinking, ‘Wow, that’s cool, that’s a certain type of Brian Wilson chord change.’ I thought, ‘sh*t – he’s got all his talents intact.’ ”

Sadly, *that* is the type of talk about Brian from Mike that makes us feel the most warm and fuzzy. "Holy sh*t, he's not complete toast!"

Yes to all this. I've seen Mike's BBs in concert three times in the 2010s, and while I enjoyed each show... the tonal thing re Brian is jarring, even knowing it's coming, and more than a bit eerie.

I  am a Brianista, and not even a conservative, but simply can't stand anymore this endless anti-Mike campaign. It's a new kind of bigotry.

bigotry
bĭg′ə-trē
noun
The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.
The character or mode of thought of a bigot; obstinate and unreasonable attachment to a particular creed, opinion, practice, ritual, or party organization; excessive zeal or warmth in favor of a party, sect, or opinion; intolerance of the opinions of others.
Synonyms Credulity, Fanaticism, etc. (see superstition), narrow-mindedness, prejudice, intolerance.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

So, I'm outta here.

Have fun being gaslight for eight paragraphs by filleplage on the other board… ::)

Fullpage is the greatest Beach Boys poster of all time #bringherhome mods

SMiLE Brian, I actually like you and OSD.
Never had any problem with you. You both have been always rabidly anti-Mike, but with a light touch based mostly on funny one-liners, and even a bit of self-irony IMHO.
I like your answer to my post, I find it rather friendly, and funny.

It’s all good Zenobi! :)

That really is filledplage. Seems to almost willfully misunderstand topics, goes off on insane tangents, and can't find a bad thing to say about Mike Love. Also interestingly will defend something like Summer In Paradise but apparently not much of That's Why God Made The Radio. This "filledeplage" character has to be somebody's idea of a joke, right?

As much of a bummer as it was to have the board break apart, certain posters like that surely aren't missed at all, at least in my opinion. And this board is the better for it, though things have gotten a bit slow.

It's not a campaign; it's a REACTION to something Mike has been saying at his shows.

And frankly, if you read/hear what Mike has been saying/doing in this bit at his shows, and you think the *fan response* to that is "bigotry", then yeah, you're probably not cut out for a conversation about these issues.

Claiming bigotry in a thread where people are making reasoned, *GOOD FAITH* arguments and discussions, sometimes in the face of "he's just tellin' bad jokes" which I think sometimes veers into a bad faith argument, is, well, far more offensive than anything being said in this thread.

Don't worry, HeyJude, will not trouble your righteousness any more after this. Just a last remark: you just made a perfect example of why I have never had any problem with SMiLE Brian and OSD, but I have with you practically always. They have a light touch, your own is as light as a ton of bricks.
And now you can resume your favourite pastime, Mike bashing. Have at him!

On the other hand, I think I can reassure SMiLE Brian. Not going to commit treachery. I read some more threads "there" and it's as baffling as the Mike bashing here. There is no blatant anti-Brian campaign, but the level of passive aggression leveled at him by some posters, including at least one admin and one famous historian, would have me deflagrate in no time if I were a member. So, no way.

Partly to try and clarify my previous post, and partly to further ease my mind from HJ, I'll quote this from the Other Board:

"Given the law of diminishing returns, Brian's recent problems and the high probability of it being mostly not that "new" at all, I just can't get worked up at all over the prospect of another BW album. For all its faults and problems, let No Pier Pressure be his last proper vocal release."

This is a textbook example of passive aggression. Translation in plain English: "Brian is toast and has been since Heaven knows when. Nothing by him will be any good in any case, so I'll accept even NPP as his final statement. At My Piano and Long Promised Road, and anything else he may do, may go f*** themselves."

See? Already deflagrated.

And so, I guess, that's it with my long relationship with BB fandom. Heaven knows it's been rough sailing. I'm returning to basics... the best music ever made by anyone in the world. The world of their music, where nobody will keep reminding either that Mike is Devil incarnate or that Brian is toast and did nothing good since 1966. The music by

Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Alan, Bruce, David, Blondie, Ricky and all the others.

The Beach Boys.

This is an excellent thread. And I'd just like to add my two cents. On various Beach Boys social media pages discussing politics is verboten, yet it often becomes the elephant in the room while Mike keeps injecting it into Beach Boys branded shows and into the choice of venues at which the Beach Boys perform. Whenever I would voice my disagreement at the Beach Boys performing at the gig sponsored by the organization that promoted trophy hunting, or at the Trump rally, or Mike Love and Dean Torrence performing at Mar a Lago on New Years' Eve of 2020 without a mask in sight, I would get dismissed as simply a Mike Love hater who will never like anything Mike does because of the supposed nasty things he's done to the band. I will admit that I am not a Mike Love fan. I do, however, see that he has made some great contributions to the band and I even find myself sticking up for him in some instances. I will never defend his politics, though, and I will never like him personally. Believe it or not, there are some issues in this world that are more important than the Beach Boys, and in my opinion, Mike is on the wrong side of them 99.9999% of the time.

Thanks!! Time to start our own fan club!  :love :happydance :tm :kiss :woot :woot :thumbsup :lol

Some of those people there have always done this. Back around 2010 I first came to this board and the general consensus being lobbed from some of these people was that Brian would always be a vegetable, he wasn't in control of his own life, and his band did all the work when it came to his music, etc etc. It was so prevalent that, as a new fan, it was easy to believe these things.

It took great posters like Wirestone and others to convince me otherwise that Brian is definitely in control of his life and that he makes his own music. Then NPP happened, and the floodgates opened. A small vocal segment of "fans" ripped every aspect of that album to shreds - to the point where Brian's very dignity was being attacked from many different angles.

Looking back on the near 15 years I've been apart of the fandom (which is but a drop in the bucket compared to some fans), I feel a lot of remorse for a lot of comments I've made and arguments I've started. But overall I feel an overwhelming sadness for the general fandom itself. It's just been kinda sad that a lot of online-interaction with fellow fans has tarnished the actual music for me and others I know. Which is why I have mostly stepped away from posting in recent years.

As for the band feuds, it's not just the Brian bashing that brings this fandom down, but yeah it's also the Mike bashing. I think Mike has done some very lousy things over the years, and I think he's deserved a lot of the criticism he gets, but not everything the man does deserves a mob of pitchfork wielding fans typing loudly from their living rooms (and I'll be the first to admit I've ripped into him over trivial things over the years).

If any of us were in Mike's shoes I wonder if we'd do anything much different...and I mean if we lived his entire life (from birth, to working at a gas station, to being screwed out of writing credits on famous songs, etc). Mike and Brian have both been shaped by their upbringings, their rise to fame, their own personal demons. We can shout from the sidelines, but it's gotta be much different when you're the one on the field, in the spotlight, and your entire life has been defined by the game.

No I'm not excusing Mike's behavior, but I don't think scrutinizing every thing the man does is going to make us happier as a fandom, and it's certainly not going to make the music sound better.

Zenobi, I think your comment about "returning to the basics" is spot on, it is exactly what so many of us need.

I don’t want to restart this debate, but I didn’t know Dean was with Mike at Mar a Lego on NYE 2020.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRwtDKguyso&t=31s. And this http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27487.0.html. It says "Beach Boys" but it's really just Mike, Dean and a house band.

I presume Dean Torrence has a longer history of being involved with both Mike and Trump. There are a bunch of pics of a gig they did at "Mar a Lago" back in 1997:

(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/682323886/photo/torrence-trump-love-at-mar-a-lago.webp?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=F_sjTyKO-zIZGATz1bQORl0SQ7Lx5nW3tWcYxVY4KrM=)

(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/682323214/photo/torrence-trump-love-at-mar-a-lago.webp?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=FaLBjw0HKGkhJ8oWoOeOjQ9JRvLlyivVFaoQXuUUMV4=)

(https://media.gettyimages.com/id/682323746/photo/trump-love-at-mar-a-lago.webp?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=WOn1mX_u30xY56UdjmQ03Wb8oSbH5t18roXakR7Rd8U=)

Also, when Mike did that NYE 2021 gig, it resulted in one of my favorite article/photo combos of all time that I think underlines the absurdity of this stuff Mike was choosing to associate himself with:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/135619811_2765311753738837_4289299986183955894_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=7jc_eQWuUtEAX8z0w6l&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AfAv5FiQQ0_epPxD3vC3g2WXpbokqlKy4YCOsRy0vQsSSA&oe=64F35477)

Thanks a lot for this post, Rab.
And by the way, your LOVE fanmix is simply fantastic. Thanks two lots for that!  :)