The Smiley Smile Message Board

*Following the release of Sounds of Summer, this fall Capitol/UMe will release the next chapter in The Beach Boys' archival releases, which will explore the bands often overlooked but pivotal albums, 1972's Carl and the Passions – "So Tough" and 1973's Holland. The deluxe multi-disc set follows last year's acclaimed boxed set Feel Flows – The Sunflower and Surf's Up Sessions 1969-1971*


No working title as yet, but a thread for comments.
Really looking forward to hearing anything from Blondie and Ricky later in the year as this comes to be.


https://youtu.be/AcSDMXekgX8

Yes! Pumped for this, very happy they've announced it and are committed to it.

‘Howie’ Edelson posted over at the EH Board…

Trust me.
It'll be worth every penny.

I wonder if the Flames second LP will form part of this same project, or get a separate release.

They should also re-release "The Flames" first album, along with the second.

I'd go for a separate set with the two Flame albums.  Mainly so there will be more room for Beach Boy rarities!   ;D

I imagine they already have the set done, but one thing I didn't like about  the "Feel Flows" set were the instrumentals tracks combined with backing vocal tracks.  I enjoy it much more when there's a separate instrumental only track and a separate vocal only track.

Love and merci,
Dan Lega


PS -- Please don't let there be any delays on this set!

I love the idea of releasing both Flame albums as a double disc set!

Yes, that would be nice. But unfortunately such a double disc set would certainly have zero commercial potential. Only as part of a Beach Boys set you could get these recordings to the public and get some revenue, I guess.

:rock

That’s really exciting news!

Very excited for this!  Re: The Flame, I agree that any Flame tracks have to be part of this set.  Would love to get that 2nd album finally!

My big hope for the set is the long rumored Carl lead vocal
take for SOS. I have no idea if it actually exists. Also rumored
that Dennis had a try at it.

I think Denny sang it in concert a few times. Are there early/multiple Brian demos?
More live versions with different lead singers?

This could be a great box set!

Dennis did try SOS initially, but almost everyone has said his vocals were wiped and no longer exist. Still. What a find that would be, at a time when Denny still had a really good voice the early 70s. Someone on YouTube mixed Carl's live concert vocal with the SOS studio backing.and  it was pretty cool to hear what SOS might have sounded with a Carl lead.

It really would be find!  If I recall correctly,  Desper has mentioned having a SOS version with a Carl lead vocal. Hope that is true.

This will be pretty mind blowing, no doubt about that

Alls I know is Howie confirmed Brian’s “Sail On Sailor” demo. So to hear that, it’s gonna be weird. In fact I’m not sure if I really want to hear it. Definitely sounded like an emotionally painful time for Brian.

Great news. Crossed fingers for some DW goodness.

I'm hoping for some unused Brian material from these sessions. What about including the Spring album?

I'm also hoping for a live version of "Jumpin' Jack Flash" to finally be released!  I got to hear them perform it live once and it blew the roof off the arena! 

This doesn't have to be on the boxed set, though.  Hopefully there will be a re-release of the '74 In Concert album with many added tracks coming out soon, too.

I too really hope we finally get an official release of the BBs playing 'Jumpin Jack Flash'   8) 8) 8) 8)

I also hope/predict that The Flame's two albums recorded around this time might get included in this boxset, given the involvement from Carl and Desper. It wouldn't even shock me if it's released as "The Beach Boys" like how Dont Worry Bill and Its A New Day eventually were released.


I love this era and I'm so excited for the new box set !!

Given a finite amount of space, I don't think we need two full Flame albums on a BB set.

In the pre-streaming/digital download days, I'd say we'd have to make some considerations for avenues of getting a niche item like two Flame albums released. But in 2022, those two albums can easily be dropped on streaming and digital download (and it's not even impossible a reissue label would put it on disc too).

I hope they will include some live shows. They were such a great live act in those days. Or maybe they will save it for an In Concert box?

If you're talking about the live version of "Don't Worry Bill" released as part of a medley with the live "Wonderful" on the Endless Harmony Soundtrack...well, that IS the Beach Boys! Sure, that half of the medley is a Flame song, but a live Beach Boys performance from 1972, including Blondie and Ricky. As for "It's A New Day" - well, it's a Dennis solo track with a Blondie lead. Technically not quite a Beach Boys recording, but not the Flame either.

Also, Dennis is singing part of the lead on “It’s a New Day.” Agree it’s a solo DW project, but a lot of his solo tracks are included in the FF set.

Yep. Live at Carnegie Hall 1972. Great show!

I need:

a long version (if this exists at all) of that 'Radio Kingdom' snippet present on that fairy tale that came with the Holland LP. Still got the original vinyl version (Dutch pressing, Reprise).

Tantalizing is the right word, I believe.

The Blondie/Ricky era was an important yet vastly underrated period for the band.  I really liked what these guys brought to the group.  Maybe we'll finally see an official release of "Carry Me Home". 

Agree, Awesoman -

these two brought added inspiration, soul, energy, rhythm. Not that the BBs ever lacked these qualities, mind (with the possible exception of SiP, that fine exercise in being a plastic replica of the band itself - a feat in itself, though not qua aesthetics).

Blondie & Ricky definitely added a special something. A Dutch reviewer then wrote that Holland sometimes made him think of The Band; I can see his point.

IMHO, there should have been more time for the 'expanded BBs' to further grow, mature, 'gel' into more of a unit. What would the years 1974 and 1975 been like, had this idea been given a chance?

Finally: what was Mike's attitude towards the two newcomers/members way back then?

Yeah Blondie and Ricky added an "edge" to the band that they never really had before and certainly would never have again.  Even though songs like "Here She Comes" and "Leaving This Town" sound nothing like the Beach Boys (and it's a fun game to play those songs for friends and have them guess the band), they provide a glimpse of what could have been had those guys hung around a little longer. 

I love the Blondie/Ricky-era albums - that said, it's always puzzled me a bit how anyone could assume these two would be able to substitute for Brian in terms of his diminishing influence on the band's songwriting. "Here She Comes" is perfectly fine in the context of the So Tough album but it's not the kind of song that makes me want to hear it over and over again. The BB at the time were going for a bit of a more generic rock sound with the addition of these two I think - like I said, amazing albums (Holland especially) and the live shows must have been incredible at that time (I'm a big fan of In Concert too), but in terms of songwriting I understand why this phase is not every fan's favorite era.

Not disagreeing with you - I basically agree, in fact! But I think it's worth pointing out that the Beach Boys didn’t really need songwriters. At no point before 1980 did the Beach Boys lack for material, as is attested by the whole albums' worth of unreleased songs we’ve been treated to over the last thirty years. I really think that any band that wasn’t completely weighed down by a decade of interpersonal drama (and trauma) would have taken a dozen of Dennis’s compositions and handed them over to their extremely talented and versatile lyricist, Mike Love! But the obvious combination of the band’s most active composer and long-time lyricist was barely explored. And that, I think, was the problem Carl was trying to solve when he invited Blondie and Ricky, more so than replacing Brian. To get the band out from under their own history a little, get some fresh blood in the room, and maybe in doing so to free up some of the immense talent that wasn't being really utilized in the early 70s.

I don't think it was ever the band's intention for Ricky and Blondie to replace Brian per se, especially in terms of songwriting.  I'd wager that Carl realized the band needed some new blood to alter the group's sound and felt these guys' contributions and talents would help the group achieve this.  The band's previous two records, as cherished as they have become over the years, were highly ignored commercially and critically.  And with Brian basically living in Candy Land at the time whose contributions were hit or miss at the time, adding some new blood to the group was probably the right move.

Yeah, I've never heard anyone assert Blondie and Ricky were "substituting" in any way for Brian.

The band already had more than enough writers and singers and musicians in the studio and on the road. They brought Blondie and Ricky in because of what they thought they could add to the band.

Indeed, it's often forgotten that Blondie and Ricky joined while Bruce was still in the band. There were a small number of early 1972 gigs with *seven* Beach Boys on stage. They didn't *need* more members; they sought out adding those two guys.

I saw one of those shows in ‘72 with Bruce, although Dennis wasn’t there. Even without DW, that was a great show.

Which show?

Atlanta, at Georgia Tech on March 30, 1972

Interesting info-I don’t have my book in front of me but that might be a show that I didn’t have a review of. I know it’s a thousand years ago but do you happen to recall if they said why Dennis was absent (it was long after his hand accident and he was at most shows in that period-though mainly just singing harmony rather than drumming

They told the audience that Dennis had a sick child.

EDIT: Ian, have you tried the Georgia Tech student newspaper? I know there was someone at the show taking pics for the yearbook, there was probably someone there for the paper as well.

Hot damn on that new Marcella mix sample on The Beach Boys Facebook page!

Yeah it's intriguing alright.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Cdl75DkFNGx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

The drums are pretty dominant but the vocals could be turned up a notch.   

I'm eager to hear the whole thing but this little snippet doesn't sound very good to me. The original mix is amazing, I like it just the way it is, so I don't see the use of making it sound more like the live version - or is this an alternative mix from 1972? Anyway, it's always great to see this song getting some exposure/attention, certainly one of their best (for me, maybe even THE best) from that time frame.

I am hoping for live versions of "Here She Comes" and "River Song".  Also, a better quality version of the "River Song" demo would be cool, too.  I'm looking forward to any of the Ricky/Blondie material.

I am curious about the remix to compensate for Moffitt's engineering. A couple of days ago I pulled out my vinyl So Tough, and...man, it sounds kind of hollow. Plays through flawlessly, no pops or clicks or nothin', but...it just doesn't have much life to it.

I think “Marcella” is an excellent candidate for a remix. I think bringing the guitars and especially the drums forward in the mix would help a great deal.

We’ll have to see how the full remix sounds. It sounds like the drums have been given a lot more punch, but it sounds like it has also been slathered in echo/reverb, which in my opinion often ends up negating the benefits of a modern remix (which I view often as giving more up-close punch and clarity, which often means it needs to be relatively dry).

I’m not sure any shows were captured on multi-track or even as soundboard recordings that included “Here She Comes” and “River Song.” I recall a live "Here She Comes" survives from some kind of soundboard or radio broadcast source, but I don't know if a good-sounding source exists, and I don't know if it's something they could get the rights to for the set anyway.

I also have a vague recollection that someone, perhaps Ed Roach, confirmed that the circulating rough mix of “River Song” is something that doesn’t exist outside of whatever tape it somehow came from. We of course didn’t get any rough mix of the track on the 2-CD “Pacific Ocean Blue” reissue.

What they *could* do is a stripped-down remix of the song replicating that rough mix as closely as possible.

But I also don’t know where rights issues come into play on that material as far as BRI versus Guercio. Like, even if the basic tracks came from a BRI/BB session, I’m not sure the rights are always easily defined. I know the opposite issue came into play on that POB reissue, where they seemingly wiped all of the BB/Bruce overdubs on “Love Surrounds Me” to where it stood as a Dennis “solo” track. Could they do the opposite with “River Song?” I’m not sure.

According to Eric's site, "[r]ecordings of 'We Got Love' and 'California Girls' from this concert were used on the 1973 double LP, 'In Concert'", so I guess the show was at least partially recorded:

Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, New York
August 19?, 1973

1. Sail On Sailor
2. Long Promised Road
3. Sloop John B
4. Trader
5. Leaving This Town
6. California Girls
7. Marcella
8. Funky Pretty
9. You Still Believe In Me
10. Caroline, No
11. We Got Love
12. California Saga: California
13. River Song
14. Wild Honey
15. Surfer Girl
16. Help Me, Rhonda (sung by Carl)
17. Wouldn't It Be Nice
18. Surfin' USA

Encore:
19. I Get Around
20. Good Vibrations
21. Fun, Fun, Fun
22. Jumpin' Jack Flash

https://members.tripod.com/~fun_fun_fun/8-73.html

If they've got a nice-sounding '73 live "River Song", I'll be first in line to hear it for sure.

I had a recording of them doing this one with Blondie on the lead.  It was quite nice.  Sadly the hard drive I had it on died and it would cost over a grand to extract all my old files off of it.  🤷‍♂️

Zissit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-AQEPe0Kag

That Hartford '73 recording is the main live version of "River Song" that has been floating around for years. It's a pretty solid audience recording for the era.

Setlist.fm documents 7 shows in 1972-73 where it was performed. (It also shows a 1980 performance which I'm sure is erroneous).

Yep.  So relieved to hear that Kenny was found.  🤣

By the way that August 19 1973 Nassau Coliseum show is also source for Sloop John, Help Me Rhonda and Leaving This Town on the released album

So when is this supposed to come out again?  :lol