The Smiley Smile Message Board

I ask this question because more and more I see people saying that Brian should quit recording music and touring. Some of these opinions come from people who I respect and like as posters - so I'm not trying to call anyone out. But I'm really curious about this mindset.

As a creative myself, there's a line from 'Love and Mercy' that I think about quite often: Brian is having an argument with his father and says "I got different stuff inside me, I gotta get it out."

I write and record music. I do so partially as part of my job, but also partially as a hobby. The music I make as a hobby I sometimes post it on the internet. I will admit that my hobby music isn't great music, but I LOVE making it. I love how it sounds to me. But it would break my heart if someone told me I was embarrassing myself by posting that music. It would really hurt if someone told me to quit.

I guess that's why I pose this question. Because it seems like a really hurtful thing to request/wish upon an artist...even an artist like Brian Wilson who reached this upper echelon of musical brilliance who now isn't making music on that level. So because he's not making music on a Pet Sounds level (or even maybe on a Friends level) do we as fans have a right to wish him to quit making his art? Imagine if when Brian was destroying his voice in the 70s, and people told him to quit because of a few bad songs, and he never made music again? That would be a travesty considering the beautiful music he has made since then.

Creatives do have things inside of them they want to share - I don't think that ever goes away. So if Brian wants to make music, no matter how imperfect the vocal line, he should be able to do that. And if we don't like the music he sells, the beauty of the free market is that we don't need to buy products that we don't like. In fact, with a streaming service you don't even have to buy the product...you can listen to 30 seconds of it and see if it's something you want to devote any more time to.

As fans are we meant to be the judges of when someone should quit? We can absolutely be the judges of whether or not we want to listen to an artist or not. But I don't see the fairness in trying to be some kind of gatekeeper of Brian's dignity.

I'm not trying to stifle opinions - on the contrary, the more music Brian puts out, the more we have to critique. But if we make calls for him to quit, and he one day possibly reads those calls and quits making music, then we have nothing to hear, nothing to share an opinion about.

Anyways, I'd love to hear opinions from everyone about this. I don't want to argue about it, but to try and understand the mindset. You've heard my opinion above and I'd like to hear anyone else's take on the matter.

With all due respect, I'm curious what prompted this question? The only truly new music Brian has put out in the past five years is the newly written "Right Where I Belong," a song that seems to have been generally well received by fans, while the rest of the documentary soundtrack is re-recordings of old songs and previously unreleased demos. Otherwise, it's not as though Brian has been exactly churning out music for the past decade or so.

As a professional artist, as long as there are people that support your art financially by paying to hear your music or see your concerts, then I don't see why any artist should quit their chosen vocation and means of income unless they want to. As an amateur or hobbyist, as long as making your art gives you joy, then anything else should be irrelevant. To answer the original question, no, it's not fair or even anyone's business to call for an artist to quit making their art, but people can make their opinion heard with their wallets.

What krabklaw said above.

In answer to the original question, my answer is no, for members of the public.

Quoting myself on this board, back in 2018:

The idea that someone has to "retire" after a certain age is outdated and frankly, offensive.  If a person is willing and able to do what they want to do, they should be allowed and encouraged to keep doing so.  Also, making music is not work for Brian.  It's as essential to him and air and food. 

It was a post on another forum regarding the latest album/song from Brian. It wasn’t just regarding the music he puts out, but also his concerts. And yeah, I totally agree that most of the response to the latest offering has been positive. But I have heard more and more calls for Brian to quit in recent years, and most recently today.

Agreed. I think voting with one's wallet is completely fair - as well as telling your opinion about the work in reviews or on message boards.


I think that's what makes me sad about the calls for Brian to quit. What would people rather Brian be doing with his time? Brian should be doing whatever Brian wants to do (within the bounds of reason of course - I doubt his doctor would approve of him smoking weed all day watching Jeopardy haha). But if Brian makes music and wants to release it, why should anyone force him not to?

Damn right. It's even moreso when being active like this is the most beneficial option to someone like Brian...or me, for that matter.

Anybody calling for Brian to quit is not a real fan. Sorry, but it has to be said.

the short answer is no, of course not.

and yet I have often wished Mike Love would hang it up, and I don't mind if he knows it. I guess I'm mostly bothered with him only performing as The Beach Boys which should also include Brian and Al in my opinion. if Mike wanted to keep performing under his own name I'm ok with that because I certainly don't have to go see it.

likewise, I think a lot of fans are more concerned for Brian's happiness without being critical of his actual output. for many years, fans have seemed unsure just how much Brian wanted to be out on tour and worried that he's been forced into it somehow. many of us have seen him seeming disinterested at times in concert, and his recent back problems also raised flags.

but I think time has shown that Brian does indeed enjoy performing his music to appreciative audiences, he enjoys being active, and he enjoys the camaraderie his band provides. when the pandemic hit and tours were cancelled indefinitely, I did feel some relief for Brian and I thought he was probably enjoying some time off. but at this point, I think he's chomping at the bit to get back out there.

more power to him.

While I understand your sentiments, I think some people who make this wish/request (for Brian to quit) do so out of love for Brian. The post that sparked this topic talked about Brian possibly embarrassing himself by releasing any more underwhelming tunes (I am paraphrasing here, not the OPs actual words). And like Bossaroo said above, "for many years, fans have seemed unsure just how much Brian wanted to be out on tour and worried that he's been forced into it somehow"...and given the amount of disinformation plastered on these forums (and PMs) it doesn't surprise me that people would want Brian to quit for his own mental well being. So in that regard I can see why people would want Brian to take a break and bow out, as he has a lifetime of achievement under his belt and doesn't need to prove anything else - But I think that this outlook completely overlooks how the creative mind works.

Bossaroo is on point with this: "I think time has shown that Brian does indeed enjoy performing his music to appreciative audiences, he enjoys being active, and he enjoys the camaraderie his band provides."

And I really wish people would take that to heart. And, like Bossaroo, I have called for Mike himself to hang it up before...which wasn't fair of me to do so. In the last few years I have openly stated that I am happy that Mike likes to record, and I'm also happy that he and his band share some good tunes with people when he does concerts. I do wish that he did it under his own name, but that's my minuscule opinion that doesn't need to be elaborated on.

Basically, I think sometimes us fans can have weird opinions, but in the end, if Mike and Brian are happy and recording/performing wholesome tunes to spread some joy in the world, then nothing should stop them from doing that. Especially if most people are happy with the offerings at the end of the day, and since both Brian Wilson and the touring Beach Boys are still touring, obviously the coffers say that people still want to see these guys perform.

My main issue is a certain segment of the alleged fandom that acts like Brian can do no right and literally criticize everything he does just to piss off the others, and send falsehoods and slander via PMs just cause their kingpin is still pissed cause his facade is slipping. That shitwit fuckweasel (or whatever term that gambling addicted asshole likes to use) is directly responsible for incidents like Brian apparently being rather hurt back in 2005 or so by calls for him to retire. I have a major issue with "fans" like that.

Yeah I hear ya. It's one reason that I will never join that forum....wayyyyyy too much history of bullshit from a cadre of people there. So yeah, I agree that "fans" like that are...unique...to put it kindly.

I do think that others (there and here) don't mean harm by their calls for Brian to retire. But I wish those people would put themselves in Brian's shoes - imagine someone forcing (or even just calling for) you to retire from something you love doing - that is a cruel thing to do, especially when you're not harming anyone by trying to record some songs.

Isn't Brian already retired, basically? The endless touring thing looks to me like what Brian is doing during his retirement (what some people call the"golden years").  Some people go fishing, some stay home and stare at cable news, Brian Wilson goes out on tour and does whatever it is he and his band do. 

If Brian Wilson had been touring all his life - had touring been his main thing and/or his claim to fame, or if he had been known for great, entertaining, live showmanship, then the question, 'should he come off the road' be more salient.  But he's never been that person.  Brian is on stage being what he is - an old man - and at least in my experience, I have never seen him attempt to be anything other than what he is.  It's not for everyone, that's for sure.  I rarely go to concerts, but I have seen old guys doing legacy shows - Rolling Stones, Randy Newman, Tom Petty (I was at his last concert in Hollywood Bowl and he was not in good physical shape at all) - and it's all sort of the same. To me, a Brian show is no different than these people; it's all nostalgia, and in varying degrees, a show of respect and gratitude from the audience.  I saw the Stones sometime in the 2000s. I have to say, Mick Jagger was incredibly fit and spry, and he sang "Wild Horses" very well.  But for me, that performance is no less silly than going to a Brian Wilson show. I have no idea if Townshend and Daltrey still tour, but if they do, and if Pete is out there windmilling, then that's more ridiculous than anything at a Brian Wilson show.

What Brian is known for, on the other hand, is studio-recorded music. That's the reason why he's known; why people talk about him.  So the better question is should he stop recording? First of all, he records only intermittently (or at least new recorded music from Brian surfaces only intermittently); can you say that he is basically retired from recording? It's a matter of personal opinion, but for me, the Gershwin album was the last recording project of any consequence; he had a good run starting from Smile in 2004, the Christmas album, Lucky Old Sun and Gershwin. Disney had some good tracks (as did Getting In Over My Head).  "One Kind of Love" was a good song; the kind of thing you want to hear from Brian Wilson, rather than those awful Brian Wilson-Joe Thomas songs.  In fact, if news of a new Brian Wilson album came out and it was expected to be filled with Wilson-Thomas songs, I'd be the first  to say, "please, no more."

So, to recap: he's already retired.  Or, maybe I'm giving him too much of a break.

I completely disagree with you on the quality of NPP , but am in complete agreement otherwise

I think its fair as long as it doesn't turn to bullying. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but there are appropriate ways to handle expressing that opinion.

That being said, I think a lot of these calls come out of honest concern for Brian. I don't post my opinions on his concerts much, as I'm not really a live recordings kind of guy. I like live albums as documents of the times, but VERY rarely listen to them more than a handful of times.

But, I will say that, from the videos that I've seen and heard over the past couple of years, Brian looks and sounds absolutely disinterested. I get that his talk-singing might just be him trying out something new and that no one has to express emotions the same, but if I went to one of these shows and had this experience, I would walk away feeling sad and worried for him.

For a comparison, I attended the 25th Anniversary Warped Tour Concert in New Jersey in 2019. I saw a ton of "older" Bands: Bad Religion, Good Charlotte, blink-182, etc. Taking Back Sunday's set left me feeling completely underwhelmed. The band itself was pretty on, but lead singer Adam Lazzara just did not care about his performance, preferring to let the audience sing and swinging his mic.

I bring this up because there is a major difference. Adam at least looked to be enjoying himself (still no excuse for a crappy performance), while Brian looks, at least to me, like he would rather be doing anything else.

That's just my takeaway, no one has to feel the same and I'm legitimately glad for those who enjoy Brian's shows. Same as Mike, the guy has destroyed his voice through over-touring and its pretty sad to hear him so hoarse on all of these new videos. I know Brian SAYS that he loves touring, but he has a habit of saying things that don't match up, like they burned the "Fire" tapes, never knowing that Dennis recorded a solo album, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I worship the ground Brian walks on. I am most definitely a super fan. My wife often says that I should've married him instead. Haha. But, I can also be objective in looking at situations and forming my own opinions based on what I see.

Thanks for your well thought out post, positivemusic.

I will say that of the concerts I've been to in the last five years, only at one have I seen Brian disinterested (Pet Sounds tour). The rest of the concerts he has been engaged with the audience, and seemingly happy to be there (especially the most recent one I went to right before the Covid shutdown). And those positive concerts sounded amazing - people all around us having an awesome time. I was fortunate enough to meet Brian backstage at one concert and he had the biggest smile on his face when he greeted me...He didn't at all seem disinterested to be there. I've seen Brian perform soundchecks where he is totally into directing the band through certain songs - he is in control, and it looks like he loves every minute of it.

I'm not saying he has only good days. As with any job, we all have good and bad days, we go through slumps, we can get depressed, or really happy. Brian is as human as the rest of us. If he goes through a slump I don't think it's fair to say that he should quit his "job". He's just having a slump. If Brian truly didn't want to be there, he wouldn't participate (like the Beck sessions). No one forced Brian to finish the Beck project, it fizzled out on it's own because Brian truly was disinterested in it. I feel like the same thing would happen with Brian on tour. Especially since the man could literally be doing anything else with his time, why would he waste it doing something he didn't want to do?

If people want him to quit because they think he is forced to tour, then I would totally understand that. But then I have to ask the question: what is the motive of those supposedly forcing Brian to tour? Is it money? Because I'm pretty sure the Wilson estate doesn't depend on Brian to tour 40 shows a year to put food on the table. Or does Melinda just want Brian out of the house more often??

Anywho, I'm just rambling. I do appreciate the responses though. I think most fans do generally want what is best for Brian, and we all greatly care about him.

That’s surprising to hear. The last two times I saw him, on the Christmas album tour in 2018 and The Zombies tour in 2019, he wasn’t engaged at all and it just made me sad. I’ve seen him many times and I decided then that I wouldn’t see him again. I don’t think it’s necessarily that he doesn’t want to be there, I’m not worried about him being exploited or anything like that, I trust that he’s in good hands. I think he’s just too old and tired at this point to give an engaging performance. I love the band too but if Brian is just going to sit motionless at the keyboard when he doesn’t have a lead vocal, it’s honestly just uncomfortable to watch.

I saw Brian three times in 2016 and again twice in 2017 and each time his mood and performance has been completely based on the particular song at a given time within the concert. Overall he's been mostly excited and happy on stage.

I remember him shouting things like "The drums on the next track are so hard they will make you sh*t!" and bouncing to Wild Honey.

Then again during some songs he looks at his watch kinda bored. He is very intuitive and can't really fake his feelings and he's never been that way. He has never been a Mick Jagger or even Bruce Springsteen on stage. To expect something like that from him, is silly.

I didn't have a chance to see him perform after 2017, and from what I've seen on Youtube, especially the Christmas tour in 2018? and the performances before his public announcement that he has to postpone some shows because of recent mental issues, seemed tough. I bet the back issues were also a big issue during 2018-2019 and propably still are.

The last time I saw Brian was at Pori Jazz Festival in 2017. He was great, even though it was an outdoors event and it was very cold. The showtime was just before midnight and it was very clear and "sunny" as it is in Finland during summertime at nights. Brian was looking up at the sky for propably half of the show, doing his hand gestures with each song and super enthusiastic, even though there wasn't even a lot of crowd because of the poor weather. At some point it started to rain and Brian shouted during a song (Love and Mercy maybe) very excited "It's raining! It's raining!"

And after the show ended he rushed to say something seemingly happily to Al as they were doing the final bows. That's not a man who is "forced" to tour.

I’ve seen Brian many, many times. It’s clear that on the last couple of tours he had some physical challenges that limited his mobility and likely caused him pain onstage. That being said, with the exception of his shockingly good 2009 fall tour — when he sang and played like a man reborn — there has been far more similarity between the shows than differences. The band is always good. Brian nails a few obvious ones (Love and Mercy) and sometimes less obvious ones (Soul Searchin’), then zones out for some others. It’s all a continuum, and he clearly sees it as a fairly undemanding way to keep busy and feel fans’ love.

You watch see this in the new documentary. BW has a very simple life in LA, for his own mental health, but it does seem a bit boring. He tells Jason Fine at one point: “I like concerts.” It’s that simple. They’re a place where everyone on stage supports him and looks out for him, and where he knows precisely what’s going to happen for a couple of hours.

I'll add my two cents, even though I'm in agreement with most of you. I think it is not fair of us fans to say that Brian should quit. Frankly, it's none of our business, and it's not our call. Nothing is being forced on us. If we don't want to see one of Brian's shows we can choose not to buy a ticket. If we don't want to hear new music from him we can choose not to listen. Touring in the 21st century has probably been a good outlet for him. From the things he has said and the videos I have seen, I think he genuinely likes everyone in his current touring group, and they genuinely like him and each other. That is something that couldn't be said for the Beach Boys from the 1960s throught the 1990s. At any given time during those years there was tension in the ranks.

Years ago, I had an opportunity to see Frank Sinatra perform in his later years but did not go. I’ve regretted it ever since. I should have gone, not because he was at peak form, but because Frank Sinatra is - FRANK SINATRA!!!  If Sinatra wanted to perform in public, who the hell am I to tell him to quit?

I saw Brian Wilson in concert in Rochester New York in October. Did I expect “the best performance I’ve ever witnessed in my life”?  No, I did not.  I expected to see BRIAN FUCKING WILSON!!!  The most integral part of my musical life, and I consider it a great honor that he allowed me to see him and hear him, though he is 79 years old.  

If you don’t like his concerts, don’t go. If you can’t garner enjoyment from him doing something like “Honeycomb” on a release, don’t buy it.

To me, I just want him to be happy as often as possible.

Some of the stuff going around on Instagram is really bizarre.

Me personally, having Brian tour during covid and with the hectic schedule he does is really unfair.

He should never stop recording but he should record what he wants

Brian's career at this point is the touring. Recording is more like a hobby. Occasionally he returns to the studio to record something; or it is suggested he do something like a piano album, new versions of Beach Boys songs; but that really has nothing to do with the touring machine. The touring career is all about playing the old hits; maybe a few deep tracks; what the touring is not about is pushing a new album, or having Brian perform the best songs of his solo career.
So i guess it boils down to, do you believe Brian enjoys touring? Do the fans enjoy it? The recording side really doesn't enter it into it, because the new stuff doesn't sell in big numbers anyway; they're more like gifts to a cult following.
And then there is the question of what you expect from the live performer. Chuck Berry was playing up till just a few years before his death; I heard the recording of his final show. He just couldn't get his guitar to do what he wanted it to do. He couldn't remember the lyrics of his own songs. He decided it was time to hang it up. And yet, the fans would have continued to come see him, just for the honor of seeing a legend, just to be in the same room as him.
It's hard for me to accept that Brian is at that stage of his career, because I remember vividly all the hype about Brian in the late 80's, as a current artist, coming back to blow our minds again. He seemed so youthful, so energized in 1988. But 1988 was a freaking long time ago, and I must accept that Brian is not that same guy anymore.
So then the question comes back to, is this what Brian wants to do now? Is he enjoying live performance?
Myself, I can't imagine doing that at 80. My father passed away earlier this year, age 87, and I saw his energy level go way down the last 10 years. Fortunately for Brian, others do all the heavy lifting for him onstage. He's not like Chuck Berry, or Little Richard, or Bob Dylan, having to be  a strong front man, play dazzling stuff on his instrument; he just has to sing there and sing his parts and let his group do the rest.
Interesting discussion.

People should certainly be allowed to express such an opinion; someone could be brazen enough to take a poll on the subject. (I'll leave it to others to speculate as to what the results of a such a poll might be.)

But for an artist--as opposed to an auto worker, for example--they are the ones that control any such decision. Our opinions are irrelevant.

Given that we can't really how much longer we will have Brian (or Mike or Al or Bruce or David or Blondie) with us, we should respect their desires and choose whom to cherish and whom to tolerate. They've earned the right to keep touring and recording for as long as they feel up to it. Remember: once it's gone, it's gone for good.

Is it unfair if that’s what he wants to do?

The following is not directed at you but now is as good of a time as any.
I was trying to avoid putting it this way but I realize this is the only way to get my point across. It’s very easy for people to play armchair quarterback when they have no idea what they’re talking about. I don’t know what it’s like having auditory hallucinations, voices telling you bad sh*t constantly. That said, I suffer from PTSD (don’t care to go into why) severe anxiety and treatment resistant depression (in addition to a myriad of health issues stemming from several strokes). I don’t have voices telling me bad things….unless you count my own. Every day is a struggle not to “opt out”. The only time in my life I feel truly content is when I’m creating music. Otherwise I’m a prisoner in my own body and indeed in my own head. When I get positive feedback from people in regards to my own music , I actually feel worthy of existing. I’m actually making very good progress with my career and it seems to be happening a lot quicker than I ever expected. Honestly it’s helping me feel validated for the first time in my life. Considering everything that Brian had been through , I imagine hearing the love from his fans is extremely therapeutic. And certain ghouls (not referring to anyone here) want to take that away from him. Trust me, sitting at home busy doing nothing but let negative thoughts wreak havoc is no way to live. Brian quitting touring isn’t going to make him drop kick his walker  and start running laps around the block with a huge sh*t eating grin on his face singing Oh Happy Day. Submission may be a gift but empathy is a blessing

Some fans seem to have this fear of their favorite artist "losing it" or "ruining his legacy". Brian has worked on some awful material over the years, like Smart Girls or Wipe Out w/ the Fat Boys. But none of that ruined his legacy in the slightest, because the legacy of his 60s work in particular is pretty much "unruinable". If he wants to record new music and go on tour, that's perfectly fine with me, go ahead. I don't have to like everything this man does and whether he's comfortable being on the road is a thing between him and his management. Bottom line for me is, long live Brian Wilson! I will now listen to some Surfer Girl and Friends and think about the beautiful solo shows I was lucky enough to attend in the 2000s.

Pretty much couldn’t agree more, phirnis.

One thing I’d like to say about “Legacy” (a word some fans seem to think of as kryptonite haha) is that I don’t see The Beach Boys or Brian Wilson’s legacy of great music ever being ruined. Whatever you want to call it, “legacy” is merely something that someone leaves behind after they are gone. Unfortunately some fans seem to think that the only thing The Beach Boys will ever leave behind is the music on a Greatest Hits compilation. Which is a slap in the face to their entire history. Like it or not, but with the great music comes arguments, a tarmac fight, drug use, Summer in Paradise, redemption, reunions, etc. And that isn’t a bad thing - of course there are some moments that we wish never took place, but that is a part of their history. The Beach Boys will mostly be remembered for their beautiful art, but, like Van Gogh will forever be tethered to a sliced off ear, or Yoko Ono will forever be tethered to the Beatles, The Beach Boys will forever be tethered to some of the not so great things they did. It’s not just music that gets passed down after The Beach Boys are gone - it is the memories too. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just the way things go.

So when Mike does a gig that supports the killing of “trophy” animals, and Brian subsequently disowns his own musical catalogue, some of us fans get annoyed because those things won’t be forgotten. It doesn’t ruin the good music, but it also tethers itself to the band/music because it directly relates to that music. The lawsuits don’t ruin the music, but they are moments that are tethered to that music. And yes, future generations may not even notice those bad moments, but if those people read a book, look at vintage articles, they’ll see these things. The Beach Boys will leave behind amazing music and amazing memories, but they will also leave behind bad music and bad memories - that is their legacy. I think it sucks that they keep doing things that keep giving them negative press, but I know those things won’t at all ruin their vintage music. But they are things that won’t be totally forgotten, either.

Also want to add that my viewpoint on this subject matter has evolved over the years. So I may be contradicting any of my opinions from years past. That’s just the way it goes.

Yes to all this! Beautifully said.

I just saw a screenshot sent to me of a post elsewhere stating that Brian’s solo catalog should be deleted when he passes. That’s as good an example of any as to why I’ve distanced myself from the fan community. I’ve seen landfills with a lower amount of toxicity…

Said poster said that anything after 1968 isn’t really Brian. Hmm…I need to listen to the Mike Love masterpiece Til I Die again, along with Adrian Baker Presents SMiLE, and maybe that masterful Bruce album TLOS again and see if my opinion changed with that discovery. I mean sh*t, all this time I thought Brian wrote This Whole World. Wow is there egg on my face. Guess Feel Flows was also a “little white lie”.

Sarcasm aside …I think the gene pool could use a touch more chlorine

Edit… I said “Feel Flows” cause I was listening to the set on Spotify. I meant All I Wanna Do 😂 Guess stupidity is contagious

Is it fair to call for an artist to quit?

- Sure it is fair. But you have to accept that the artist doesn't care about that.

Doesn’t care about the fairness of being called to quit? Or doesn’t care about being called to quit?

Brian has stated numerous times in recent years that his goal when working on a song is to make a #1 hit. That doesn’t sound like someone who doesn’t care about validation. And being asked to quit the one occupation that gives you that validation would be decimating to that person, imo.

The following is a quote from Brian’s autobiography:


Whether or not Brian wrote/said these exact words, it absolutely is in line with what Brian has said in interviews over the years. If Brian didn’t give a damn about what people thought of his music he wouldn’t care when a voice in his head tells him his music is no damned good. But he does.

And I feel like wishing Brian would quit music (because it’s either embarrassing or not up to par with Pet Sounds), is the ultimate criticism you could lay on an artist (whether or not the person who says it has bad intentions).

It blows my mind that someone whose music has sold millions (and earned millions, too), is loved the world over, can still be so full of crippling doubts, fears, etc; so much so, that he must seek further validation from the listening/buying public. So much so, that he must stage endless tours, to be near the legions who love and adore him. And at every chance possible, remind everyone "I was the one who came up with that idea", "I was the one that wanted to push the boundaries, and not just crank out cutsie little love songs".

Of course I'm talking about Paul McCartney.

But seriously, there are many here among us who will never receive that kind of validation for our work. "But you're not a f****ing genius like Paul McCartney". True, but does that make my expressions (through music) any less valid?

I hope Brian is receiving therapy beyond just putting him in front of a few thousand people applauding him several times a year.

Assuming that is the case, then the time to retire is when people stop coming to see you. And who knows, Brian might be as happy playing a small club with a small band and 50 people there as he is playing to thousands. If it's just the need to play and sing, then any audience - if they are loving the music - is good enough. Of course that doesn't pay the bills, as I well know. Anyone care to lend me a fiver?  ;)

Depression is hell...especially if you grew up in a abusive household and was constantly belittled and berated. It fucks with your head big time. You learn to believe you're worthless. Trust me. Sometimes there's a void that just can't be filled, not with food, drugs, cigarettes, sex, money, nothing. And when you find that one thing you're good at, the one thing people accept you for, well, that validation can become quite addictive too. For me personally, knowing that there are people who really dig what I do, that keeps me going, from not feeling like a useless burden on those who love me, like maybe I do serve a purpose....no amount of money or success in other fields could change that.  That's why chodes like that one fucknugget I'm referring to piss me off. It's like this guy gets his jollies off by being as cruel and insulting to Brian as possible. I fucking hate people like that. I'm a tolerant person...except when it comes to bullies (and racists, homophobes, and child abusers). People like that have a special place in hell waiting for them. Karma is a bitch.

I do believe he has a team of doctors from UCLA who make sure he's got the best treatment for his depression/schizoaffective disorders. I'm betting that a part of that treatment is that Brian doesn't stay shut in all the time, and perhaps for Brian being out on tour gives him distractions from his demons and happiness from the people he brings joy to at concerts.


And I think many artists feel this way. Look how Brian spiraled out of control when his music started becoming less and less relevant to the culture...He was riding a high of success and then crashed and burned. I don't think it is mentally healthy to get your happiness from things that can fall apart, but I also understand the want to get recognition from the art that you create.

Brian has stated that he wants a number 1 hit - whether or not we feel that is a healthy or even realistic goal, that's just what he wants. And so his fanbase may just want to support this guy (who has a heart of gold and has given us SO much). I don't mean we have to fake liking all the work he puts out, but we also don't need to be dicks every time he releases an album or song. And we certainly don't need to wish the guy would quit and sit his ass in a recliner for the rest of his days in this world.

One of the other aspects of the touring is the camaraderie.  Like Willie Nelson once said, "On the road again, making music with my friends again."
It's undoubtedly therapeutic for Brian just to be interacting with the rest of his band.  The man is 79 and isn't exactly a social butterfly at this point.  On one level, the other guys are his employees, but I have to think that most if not all of them are his friends to one degree or another.  Brian's friendship with Al, of course, pre-dates their professional life.  And Rob Bonfiglio is Brian's son-in-law.

As for the hypothesis that the touring is all about satisfying Brian's need for constant validation and approval, I'm not sure that I totally buy it.  Yes, we've all heard stories like the one about Brian almost scrapping Good Vibrations because some random visitor to the studio said he didn't like it.  But for every story like that, there's also a tale  like the one where Capitol execs all told him that Barbara Ann was a garbage but his response was basically, "I'm right, and you're wrong. Put it out anyway."

And as for the notion that the guy has been in a decades-long funk based on his inability to have another No. 1 hit, I guess it's possible.  But it's also worth remembering that there have also been periods when he really had no interest in even trying.  In his interview with Jamake Highwater from early 1968, Brian says, "I stopped trying to do such great things."  That was, what, maybe only 15-16 months after Good Vibrations and he pretty clearly sounds like a guy who's no longer trying to top himself or make No. 1 hits.  As a fan, it's one of the most heartbreaking things I've heard Brian say, but I do believe that he said it with total honesty. I don't think he was "sandbagging" Highwater.   I think he said what he meant and meant what he said.  It's like, "Sure, I can be Brian Wilson the musical genius scaring people with my musical genius, but who needs the aggravation?"

See? Fair and balanced discussion, unlike elsewhere like that "jds" clown (who I'm convinced doesn't actually like Brian or his music).

Yes, depression is hell. I've struggled with it most of my life.

No, I don''t think it's fair to call for an artist to quit. Even less, to call for an artist to be "delisted and suppressed". Even less, to call for searches for Brian Wilson to be automatically redirected to the Beach Boys. :P

I recently attended two small gigs headlined by a popular, contemporary musician. We talked at both shows, and it sort of took me aback when he looked to me for validation on the most recent show being the better of the two. Like, we have a grammy-award winning musician, whose every album has been critically acclaimed, and he was looking to me, some random dude to validate his performance?

(I enjoyed the first show more, but that's not a knock against the 2nd! Both were fun)

I think that many artists have an endless need of validation for what they do, and so even a random dude's opinion can be important. It could be said that for that kind of artist validation is their fuel to go on.

Yeah...I personally can attest to that

I think it's up to the artist and I suppose the paying customers. For example, I finally was able to see Paul McCartney a few years ago and I thought the show was tremendous. Meanwhile, the next day in the paper they talked about his voice sounding rough and it was time for him to think about hanging it up. Nonsense, he sounded great and the place was full of people having a great time. I mean, how many times do you get to hear a concert open with the chords of "A Hard Day's Night" by the artist who wrote them? Incredible.

I think one of the many things that complicates things is that, in the McCartney scenario above, both things can be true. Folks can have a great time, and he also doesn't have a voice anymore.

I bow to no one in my love for McCartney and his work, including even some of his most recent stuff. But his voice has been shot for years. It's a different thing than the thing with Brian's voice. But I'll absolutely not back down from the pretty-darn-close-to-objective fact at this point that McCartney's voice is shot. But I don't have any interest in saying he should quit, or that people shouldn't go see his show. And, I'm not even prepared to say how "shot" it is. It's pretty well toast at this stage, but I mean, it could be even worse. I mean, at this stage, I'd pay to *not* hear him try to sing "Maybe I'm Amazed" ever again, but his voice holds up better on some solo acoustic stuff and, ironically, some of the throat-searing things like "Helter Skelter" that don't require the pristine voice.

And then calling for an artist to quit is complicated as well by live shows versus studio work. I think both McCartney and Brian Wilson can muster at least slightly better vocal performances in the studio, and also with or without the aid of studio techniques or tricks, some of the issues can be smoothed out. Not completely. But I dunno, I think Brian's "Right Where I Belong" is worth having. And some of the stuff off "McCartney III" is worth it. He may be croaking through "The Kiss of Venus", but it's still good, and your brain can almost kinda just fill in imagining like 1968 (or hell, even 1982) McCartney singing it.

Also complicating things is the status of their non-vocal work. McCartney is still an excellent musician; there's some great instrumental work from him on recent albums, including the most recent "McCartney III."

Brian can still lay out stuff on the piano.

So I guess the idea is that I think it's fair to raise the issue of retirement or semi-retirement from some aspects of their careers, and it's obviously true more than anything that we just make our own decisions as fans/scholars/consumers of the artist. I'm mostly done seeing McCartney. I saw him a bunch of times in 2002, 2004, and 2005. His voice was stunningly quite good in 2002, and held together somewhat through the end of that decade. But in recent years his voice has vastly deteriorated, and that coupled with high ticket prices and *larger* venues (I have no desire to pay for a stadium show where I'm just watching the video screen the whole time) has dictated that I haven't sought his show out in a number of years.

And I'm in a similar spot with Brian shows, although it's more difficult with Brian because his ticket prices are more reasonable, he has Al and Blondie and Matt still singing great at his shows, and Brian's decline in live shows has kind of been more sporadic and more difficult to discern because his voice has been challenged for so many years.

Yeah it's been a little hard to listen to McCartney's more recent stuff with his voice having aged so considerably.  And hearing him live in the past few years has been rough with him sounding so wobbly.  A few years ago he actually still sounded pretty good.  I have a nice boot of one of his shows in Japan from about 8-10 years ago and he sounded mostly great.  And I'd argue he sounds okay for a near 80-year-old and still delivers a lot of energy in his performances.

Compare that to Brian where in recent shows he just looks completely checked out. Check out this recent performance of him and Al doing "Help Me Rhonda" (https://youtu.be/i_zTAvpFVdg).  He just randomly steals the verses from Al as if he were confused and then near the end of the song looks like he's asleep.  You have to wonder if he even wants to be there especially if you're just a casual fan that isn't fully aware of all his mental health issues. 
 

1. No it isn’t fair.

2. Any artist (you, me, Brian, etc) releasing art to the public should expect unfair and terrible statements to be made about their art. I would say, “this artist should throw in the towel if they’re going to make records like this” would almost be a typical line from a negative record review.

As some sage said once, reviews usually don't say anything about the reviewed work, but say much about the reviewer.

I wish Carl had been around long enough for people to say he should retire.

I dunno, that sounds much more like what uber-defensive artists say when critics don't like their stuff.

Reviewers are much like artists; there are good and bad.

A good reviewer can turn reviewing into an entertaining art, and can appropriately convey things about what they're reviewing. There are also awful critics with an agenda, or that don't know what they're talking about, etc.

That is the reason I said "usually". Some critics awesome: the best of them can let me enjoy works of art better than I could have done by myself. On the other hand, the worst of them seem on a crusade to sabotage people from enjoying anything. Particularly on the Internet.

well put rocker. totally agree. it’s not other people’s right to tell you when to quit.

I think Brian is in a somewhat awkward place where he doesn't look like he particularly wants to be at gigs, but really can't do anything else with his time (at least that makes money). But then I think we all feel like that day to day :D

At some point when there is a retrospective review of Brian's career taken, questions will get asked about what I would assume to be the latter period that we are in now.

Only in certain cases. For instance, Mike Love should have retired 20 years ago for embarrassing the legacy of the band.

I'm glad he didn't retire. I enjoyed 2 great Beach Boys shows in 2019 and 2021. I don't see going on stage with a great band playing the songs the way they are supposed to be played as embarrassing at all.

Is it fair to call for an artist to quit? No, it's not.