The Smiley Smile Message Board

To be more specific, The Beach Boys with John Stamos will be performing.  :-\

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/politics/cnn-specal-event-july-4/index.html

No Mark McGrath? ;D

Whoopie doo!!  :thud :whatever :shrug

OSD 4th of July party? >:D

Is Stamos hosting the show again?

Oh dear god no.  :-[

Ah, maybe whoopie don't!  :-\

Hmmm, given Mike’s less-than-stellar rapport with a certain family over the last four years, you’d think CNN wouldn’t want anything to do with Mike. But then again, their ratings are so low these days that they’d probably do anything to get a little boost. And the few people actually willing to watch CNN likely have no idea that these aren’t the authentic Beach Boys anyways. Good move on their part.

Do you think they'll do an "unplugged" set from Chris Cuomo's former quarantine basement as part of the deal?  :lol :hat ;D

Just a guess on my part, but i think anyone who's not interested in seeing Mike's version of the Beach Boys won't be forced to tune in and watch this fiasco.

I hope my conservator and the "Team" doesn't force me to watch it.  ;D

 :lol I will watch it with my bud light (lime) at the beach.

I've had enough of this s--t!

Usually I just feel resigned to the course that events have taken since Endless Summer, but by God I don't want to just go gently into that good night, I want to rage, rage against the dying of the light! The Wilsons' progressive, creative direction was pushed off the rails (not that simple, I know), and with the addition of the infamous "airport tarmac incident" confrontation, it all went completely to hell. Now we're left with cheesy Stamos, McGrath and the horrendous like.

I'm fully cognizant of all the multitudinous factors involved, am usually able to see the glass as half full, etc. etc. etc., but at this particular juncture on this particular late evening/morning I'm mad as hell and I 'm not gonna take it any more! I have no choice though (whimper whimper....)

Surf's up, gonna go catch a wave. Happy 4th.

Chicago on the same bill...does this qualify as Beachago?

Mike-Ago. Not the same.

I doubt they'll be playing from the same location anyway. Mike & Bruce are in Jacksonville.

HA!

Anyone see the facebook comments about this? Super funny!

Unfortunately, they aren't sounding great. Mix seems off. Mike and Bruce do not seem in good form...

As it should be….. >:D

That was godawful.

Bruce wore pants and didn't seem to adjust the mic enough. A better adjusted mic would have brought a better sound.

It was a good mix if you want to study Christian Love’s occasional guitar plinkings.

I saw them several years ago after they had just absorbed Jeff Foskett, and their vocal blend was on point. This was pretty much just a hootenanny tonight.

FWIW, a video of WIBN has been posted:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/entertainment/2021/07/04/cnn-july-4-special-beach-boys-john-stamos-wouldnt-it-be-nice-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/the-fourth-in-america-highlights/

Oof

And you're right, SB. I heard a good part of it on another board. Mike Love was absolutely awful with off key, thin tinny vocals and mostly sounding like a faulty jackhammer. The whole act is more shot than his voice and it's so sad to see the legacy treated this way by this money grubbing over the hill clown. It's far beyond time to pull whatever rights he may have and put this jackass out to pasture for good. The name (BB's) should also be retired as it should have after Carl and Dennis were gone and Mike Love kicked Al out of the band. Hey Mike, IT'S OVER!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE, LET IT GO!!!  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

As long as there are screaming people and a national TV broadcast, the end is not near.

This really didn't sound as well on my small loudspeakers. Maybe this was just the TV mix and it sounded better in person?


Anyway, here's a little bit more:

Sloop John B:
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9596765/john-stamos-beach-boys-fourth-of-july-special/


EDIT:

Here's more of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug3rNqlK1o

00:00 - talk
00:16 - God Only Knows
03:20 - California Girls
06:27 - Sloop John B
09:40 - Wouldn't It Be Nice


Thanks to the uploader!

Retire Mike.

I’m gonna be honest, I actually thought that was pretty okay. They sounded much better than I would have expected. Definitely not the embarrassment the Mark McGrath performance of a couple of years ago was.

Same. They sound old, but that's fine, because they are old. I'd take this over autotune or lipsynch.

Most of the vocalists didn't sound so hot on this one.

I have to imagine the year and half with few shows has still left them a bit rusty. Mike and Bruce sound rougher than usual. Even Eichenberger kinda sounded pitchy on his stuff, both on his high vocal parts and his lead on WIBN. Christian Love's lead on "God Only Knows" was fine I guess, though even he seemed a little extra low energy and a little rough. But yeah, it still comes across as very "tribute band"; they start sounding more and more anonymous as the years go by. The shirts don't help.

It's even more perplexing because Mike has bloated the band out the way he seemed to frown up in the past. Given how this band sounded and the material they do in concert, they could easily drop the sax player and the bass player and have Eichenberger move back to bass.

The whole band sounded rather thin and fragile vocally and even musically. The time off has to be a factor, but I also think that age is not going to do anything but catch up with these guys, however slowly or swiftly.

I listened to a bunch of the bands on this multi-hour CNN thing, especially the older bands, and I have to say this telecast was not kind to much of any of the aging singers. Even the replacement to the replacement to the replacement of Peter Cetera guy in Chicago sounded a little rough. Robert Lamm was sounding pretty weak. The REO Speedwagon guy was struggling. Even Susanna Hoffs is having to drop keys and octaves to sing her songs; she has visually aged much better than most (note her band had Peter Asher as well as Jeff Alan Ross from Al Jardine's club tours). I guess the replacement guy in Foreigner sounded okay.

But a lot of these bands seem to be hobbling physically and musically/vocally a little more these days, and that's even after you factor in that most of these bands have been backfilled over the years with younger guys. Even the "younger" backing guys in these bands are sometimes starting to hit social security age.

And since when did Billy Ray Cyrus start looking *and sounding* like Rob Zombie?

Not trying to be a downer; the new "pop" music on this thing was truly dreadful. I guess I'd still rather hear a fourth generation Cetera replacement sing "25 or 6 to 4."

Wow, that performance was really awful. Mike sounds every bit the 80 year old man, he sounded terrible, couldn't even hit the notes correctly, voice cracked more than once. Gee, how long can this sharpening of the name continue?

If they would bother with doing a good mix at least the band would sound a lot better. These mixes does them no justice to be fair.

Damn, that was rough. Among the worst singing I've heard from Mike. It's almost like he's trying to sing "California Girls" a half step lower than the band's playing. Instrumentally, it's not bad, just blah...which is odd, after such a stretch of not playing these tunes live, you'd think it would be a rejuvenating experience.

Poor Mike couldn't get through "California Girls," which is a relatively undemanding lead vocal. That's not a good sign. If he can't handle his own leads any better than that, a 60th anniversary tour is a very dire prospect indeed. Al can't sing all the leads!!  :3d

Watch John Stamos Join Beach Boys for ‘Wouldn’t It Be Nice’

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/john-stamos-beach-boys-wouldnt-it-be-nice-1192902/?fbclid=IwAR3uyfe2zwDQFtVZPa412WRNWWJo6gLlri-JL4FlimC1YR1ICQ5gIqHFS5g

That was a bit painful and the lack of balance in the mix isn't even the biggest problem.

A shoddy mix, or a mix plagued by technical gremlins will of course make a difference in how audiences perceive it. But the mix itself - good or bad - has nothing to do with performance issues. If someone is singing or playing out of tune or if the performance overall is lacking energy or cohesion, even the best mix going out to the house or the live broadcast feed won't fix or change that.

Not knowing the details, if people are blaming CNN and their engineers for this mix, consider that live feeds for a broadcast are usually taken from the board mixing the performance live, after soundchecks and tests have been run for both the house and the tap into the board for the live broadcast feed. If there were issues with the balance between instruments and whatnot, I'd think that came from Mike's own sound and tech crew working the show. The CNN crew is not going to have control over individual tracks and unless Mike farmed out the mixing duties to a local crew-for-hire or had the venue's house crew doing all the mixing with no supervision, and that was Mike's own team running that live mix. And there are always unforseen technical gremlins that could affect it, but who knows if that was the case here.

Whatever the case, the mix has nothing to do with the quality of the performance being mixed. And ultimately the soundchecks on the heels of a national broadcast should have fixed most of those issues before air time. In a perfect world lol.

Was anybody else surprised at the song selection? For what was going out on a national broadcast, there were 3 Pet Sounds tracks, two of which Mike had little or nothing to do with originally, and one which I thought they'd feature because it's an all-time highlight and one which Mike was directly involved in creating and performing. So unless there were more songs broadcast on Sunday - I only caught the videos after the fact - it was surprising to see 3 out of the 4 tracks coming from Pet Sounds.

And I'm wondering why, given past history and with John Stamos there especially, they did not do Kokomo for this broadcast.

Yeah this is all true, but when you see stamos own video from California girls it doesn't even sound like the same show, or band either for that matter haha, sh*t sounds amazing on there imo

I agree that Mike sounded a little rough. It did almost sound like he sang almost the entirety of Cal Girls a half step lower than the group. I thought the rest of the band sounded pretty damn good. I  like raspy Bruce!  :lol :lol :-D

I thought Ike sounded fine , Cowsill's drums, Randy's sax, Keith's bass, and especially  Tottens guitar sounded great as always. The mix truly did them no justice. I agree that the mixing really did none of the classic/oldies acts any favors. What was coming out of the broadcast Sounded like a very shoddy mix.

The clip from Stamos' instagram sounded fucking incredible.

I think we may have reached a point where Mike is having a similar vocal situation as Brian. Al and Bruce still sound terrific. Bruce sounded like a slightly raspier version of his 65 self on Cal Girls, GOK, and Sloop. His vocals always blow me away. He's been having a bit of rasp on and off since he rejoined the group, so it didnt phase me.

I will still go and support every single BB related event, be it the BBs band, Brian's band, or any other solo endeavors. Its amazing and inspiring to see the core members still at it and doing what they love. 

My reaction was out loud laughter when Mike started singing California Girls.  It's a shame that this group is legally entitled to be called The Beach Boys.

I think that the group on whole sounded out of shape. The fact that they were off the road for so long, rehearsals (which Mike has said they DO NOT NEED) are needed. And at the advanced age of some of the members, a vocal coach is in order. Of course Mike and Bruce are macho dudes that don't think they need that sh*t. But I would tell them that you wouldn't ask a sprinter who has been sidelined with an injury to get right back to running the 440 at top speed. Oh you can ask for it, but it won't be pretty. And what really bothers me, is that when you perform in the shape they are in and don't seem to want to rehearse, its a BIG middle finger to the audience. Yeah, maybe most members of the crowd won't care, but YOU SHOULD!

It really did, sounded like a different concert. Also, Bruce must have had a cold on the fourth of July show, he wasn’t that raspy in may. Mike sounded stronger in may as well. The band actually sounds better than they have for a long time to me imho https://youtu.be/JriU8mLDqlQ

If there were not even more rehearsals before a live TV appearance like this, which ultimately is a big advertisement for the band/brand to influence people's decisions to buy or not buy tickets for their shows and other merch, that would be ridiculous. It's one thing to brag "we don't need to rehearse!", if that's what was happening, but it's another to get a performance which gets pretty widely panned by people not invested in the band across the internet.

I'm wondering too how much of the reaction both inside the organization and outside among the public gets into the objective versus subjective perspectives. It's one thing for a fan to say subjectively they thought it was good. It's another thing to say objectively that there were some serious problems in that performance, whether it's 10-second YouTube cel phone clips of various songs circulating online or the performance that went out to people watching CNN and later online. California Girls was a shambles, objectively the vocals were out of tune. And the bridge of Wouldn't It Be Nice almost fell apart. Those are things a fan could subjectively say were good and that's anyone's opinion, but when something is out of tune or not tight musically, those are objective facts, and issues that need to be addressed I'd think.

It really wasn't a good presentation for the band and brand, for whatever reasons that was the case on Sunday. And again, a good or bad live-feed or house mix can't "fix" out of tune vocals. They're either in tune or out. These were out.

I'm not sure who could possibly listen to Bruce's voice now and say it sounds *anything* like 1965.

Granted, I don't think he sounds notably *worse* now than in the last few years. His voice has aged differently than the others. He can still get his voice in a high range, but he has no power or air behind his voice. He's had that same raspy, whisper singing voice since the 90s. Even in the 90s it sounded sometimes like he could barely make it through "Do You Wanna Dance."

On some nights, it can have a little more air behind it. He sounded okay on "Disney Girls" back in 2012, but then sounded really weak on "Wendy."

But even in the 90s, and certainly now, he doesn't have anything near the power or clarity he did say, singing something like "I Write the Songs" at Knebworth in 1980.

I know some folks here understand how live (or any) mixing works, and perhaps some others not so much.

A live mix can make something sound "worse", but it's not like the mixing is making the singers sing off-key. Rather, what I would say is that a more "sympathetic" mix can cover up or minimize deficiencies.

A little-heard later TV airing of that 1981 Queen Mary gig (from European TV I think?) featured a full *remix* of the live show, and even on something as dreadful as that show, that later remix *does* sound better. It covers up some of the icky bits.

So a better mix on this recent CNN gig could have covered up *some* of the bad parts, but it's not like the mix is causing the underlying problem.

I would also say that there is probably less room to blame "bad TV mixing" on this CNN gig, because unlike some deals where a band appears on a TV show specifically for TV (e.g. a talk show or something), on this July 4th thing, CNN was mostly just tapping into live audio and video feeds from various regular concerts, almost surely using the in-house audio feed. It seemed like they just randomly dropped in on an in-progress Mike show for this, which might explain why they weirdly started with a backing member singing "God Only Knows", and why "Kokomo" stunningly *didn't* get an airing.

That’s exactly what happened. No GV either, for the same reason.

That's pretty much what I posted yesterday.

CNN or other network engineers working with live feeds are not balancing individual instrument and vocal tracks on their boards and creating another mix when they do a live feed like this one in Ft Lauderdale. The mix is usually taken direct from the in-house feed from the band's or the venue's board going to the audience. If a separate mix is done for the broadcast remote, it's not done by the television crew tapping into the feed. Whatever balancing issues were happening were happening at the board, at the venue. Why they were so off in some cases, like the 2nd supporting guitar being too hot in the mix of WIBN's intro whereas the lead 1st part was buried...who knows. But levels and live mixing are mostly involving volume, balance, and EQ. It has nothing to do with pitch and performance issues as I mentioned before. And people's main gripes with this broadcast seem to be about pitch and performance issues. And yes, that should be addressed because it didn't come off too well for the band on Sunday.

FWIW here's an audience shot compilation of different songs from the show:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXJ40flLQWI

Even if CNN/network engineers are only being provided with some form of stereo/2 channel out from the board, is it conceivable that it is a different mix to the front of house mix? Maybe whoever was working the board was focused on that and the TV feed was an afterthought/set and forget situation.

Anything is possible, but they did know they were going live on national (world?) cable TV for a block of songs at some point. If the band's board guy wasn't focused on the mix going out to TV, that's pretty bad.

I say this with love as I’m actually a really big fan of Stamos as an actor, and he really seems to be a great guy. He also do bring a lot of energy to the stage when he’s on the guitar, but please, don’t give him a pair of drumsticks ever again.

And, Mike, get rid of that beard, not pulling it off, at all.

2 am rant complete.
Carry on

Yes there were some issues with the mix but as others have said, those aren't the issues that most people realized. Regarding those mix issues and details, it would be cool to see what kind of setup they're running, but I'm guessing it's automated to some degree where they can program certain things song to song, and look at how many guys are on that stage. You're looking at between 20 and 30 or more instrument and mic channels (2 drum kits, congas, 4 keyboards or more, 4 guitars and a bass, etc) and then there are, what, 10 or so vocal mics to cover everyone?

My original take was that no "outsider" from CNN or other broadcast venue who would do a live cut-in like this one would have the control over individual channels in a live mix, considering Mike has his own crew and they have both the gear and the knowledge of who does what with that many songs and musicians. I'm sure - pretty sure - that the situation is what we've been describing. They take the feed from that board, and whatever mix is done is what they tap into. No one outside the band's or the venue's own staff is balancing tracks and plugging in outboard units and the like.

And factor in too the on-stage monitoring system with all those instruments and voices. I'm sure they have someone to do monitor mixes for the band and then for each musician, whether it's in-ear or a floor monitor setup.

And all of this gets checked and rechecked in soundcheck and rehearsals prior to the show, and when a network TV crew is going to tap into the feed for a live broadcast, all of that is checked too and they're in constant live communication to make sure everything goes well, and everyone is given a heads-up when they're going live on air. They don't just randomly switch it on and cut into a feed with no notice.

We could hear some balance issues, but the issue, if some are trying to blame CNN's crew for those, isn't valid if the CNN crew did what is standard practice and tapped into the board mix that was going out to the house. Or, if yet another mix was done for the live feed - That would add up to *three* separate mixes (house, monitor, broadcast feed) for this show if that's the case - it was still someone in Mike's crew running that board who knew what to do during each song. I have no way of knowing but I doubt a separate broadcast mix was done.

And as HJ just said, it wouldn't be a set-and-forget situation, and if someone did that and walked away during the broadcast, that would be ridiculous and they'd probably be out.

Maybe a certain patch was lost, maybe a cable was pulled, maybe a channel dropped...who knows.

But the issues it seems most people had with that broadcast were not issues that a mix would help or hurt unless they dropped a bad singer's mic from the blend. 

The issues were in the performance itself, and I think that's what was bothering people watching. Hopefully whatever it was including those will be addressed and fixed.

Yup appreciate that the performance and the mix are somewhat separate entities. Just more curious about the nerdy stuff.

The bad mix did make them sound worse than they actually did though, no matter how you spin it.

WIBN and Sloop John B haven’t  sounded great with Mike’s band for awhile . Sloop John B always sounds like the whole band trying to sing the lead at once and never quite in unison . WIBN is a tough lead . They still miss Al and Carl there the most .  It was a rough night for Mike and Bruce themselves mix or not . One of the worst I’ve ever heard Mike on California Girls . They need to pick the tempo of that back up . That being said  Both of their voices are so thin I think it’s hard to get a mix for TV right . Their worst performances have been at these big shows . When you see them
In a smaller venue and the mix can be more controlled they both usually sound better .

I guess at the end of the day, mixes and audio enhancements etc aside, the human ear decides what sounds good. They didn't sound good on the 4th as I watched it on CNN.

Sort of an aside, the Beach Boys ( and I definitely include Brian in this category) are the only of my favourite bands, that I always anticipate with some trepidation when I tune into see them on these types of shows. And I mean going back a ways, like Today show appearances of over a decade ago, etc. There are exceptions. That Reagan show pre reunion sounded pretty good - Al probably the key there. The 2012 Fallon appearance comes to mind. But I think these are not the norm. They should be.