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From that "Historic Films" archive, Elora has posted on YouTube what would normally be the most mundane interview clip ever, but it ends up being an amazingly awkward, tense, very rare look at the Mike/Dennis relationship near the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAq0AD38ps

This appears to be before the BB gig at the Jamaica Music Fest in November 1982. The first few minutes is standard Mike interview fare, and then Dennis briefly crashes the interview, holding Gage.......

Watch Mike's face for the next minute or so starting when he notices Dennis coming in....

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131924099_3447304468723328_7280329461340818498_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=4cEnL9o0v4AAX-rzys9&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=7e6f16d2ba8ff0daa1ca8e43c31ebaac&oe=6002AB84)

And I'm not trying to make this about fandom or fan scholarship or whatever, but if you watch this video and *don't* see the heavy, intense subtext, then it's probably best to read up more, because watching this thing is like watching the Zapruder film.

Dennis isn't trying to get on camera (as he makes it clear at the end as he walks off). This is about him and Mike, and about making Mike squirm (and on camera to boot).

Mike's eyes darting over to Dennis, Dennis grabbing Mike's neck, Mike going as rigid and stiff as he possibly can, Mike's most intense grinning-through-gritted teeth of all time, Dennis patting Mike's shoulder.

Whatever you think about who (if anybody) is the villain/deviant in the whole Mike/Shawn/Dennis/Gage saga, it's undeniably AMAZING that something like this *randomly* was captured on video and has resurfaced nearly 40 years later.

It's actually soon BEFORE their appearance, as right after Dennis and Gage walk off, the interviewer asks Mike when they expect to go on, and Mike replies "Hopefully after this next group".

Which will now perpetually make listening to that Jamaica Fest recording much more interesting!

Maybe it's just a proud father showing off his son?

Undoubtedly. But as far as this video, it's not just that. Not even close.

Well, I thought this was a nice video. Thanks for posting! If I didn't know what happened between Mike and Dennis and that Gage was Mike's grandson, I probably wouldn't have noticed anything here. It seems to me that Dennis only wanted to show his son to the camera.
But I won't say that you are wrong. The situation, if known to the viewer, is obviously strange. It just didn't feel that way to me while watching.



EDIT:

BTW, there obviously is a recording of that show. Was that a radio broadcast? And was the show filmed (so I could add that to the pro shot concerts list, if it isn't already there)?

I'm curious if the "Entertainment Tonight" news piece exists somewhere.

Dennis looks and sounds in reasonable shape there, compared to the widely seen appearance at the July 4 appearance (?) 7-8 months later (?)

Mike did seem uncomfortable, likely because as was usually the case with Dennis, he never knew exactly what Denis was going to do. And I 'm sure he was holding his breath that Dennis didn't say something like "say Hi to your Grandpa, Gage" something that would have opened a whole new piece of the interview...to his chagrin.

I don't think it's an "Entertainment Tonight" crew. I'm not sure if Mike was just making it up, or if this was a freelance crew that might later sell the footage to a TV show or something like that.

This vendor of random and archival/stock footage seems to have a bunch of instances (perhaps the same guy?) following around Mike and Dean in 1982/83 on multiple tours and shooting parts of their shows.

I don't think the Jamaica Music Fest show was videotaped. It's possible this same guy doing the interview, who may be the same guy who shot interviews and concert footage of multiple "Mike & Dean" shows in 1982/1983, may have also shot some b-roll footage of the actual BB Jamaica Fest show, but I don't think it has surfaced if it exists. Not sure where the long-circulating soundboard audio recording comes from.

As for the Mike/Dennis thing, I think that's the point. To those not in the know (including the interviewer I'm guessing!), it probably seems relatively innocuous.

But if you know what the deal is with Mike/Shawn/Dennis/Gage, and also the personal and professional issues/politics at play, it's very clear this is most assuredly *not* just Dennis wanting to show his son off to the camera. Indeed, when the interviewer asks Dennis to stop so they can get more footage of him and his son, Dennis says no. He clearly wanted to make a point to and about Mike in this brief instance.

Look, I'm not trying to blow this up into the biggest deal ever. It's obviously more about the symbolic nature of what this footage represents. But it's truly a tense moment knowing the back story.

Imagine uncovering footage of Mike watching Van Dyke Parks compose lyrics in 1966, or an interview where Mike is talking about songwriting where Murry Wilson bursts in and talks about how great a job Brian did writing those hits all by himself.

Dennis seems to yo-yo in terms of how good or bad he looked during this era. I've seen pretty late era 1983 photos where he looks pretty good, and I've also seen 1981 pics/footage (e.g. that Dick Clark 30th Anniversary TV special) where Dennis looks awful.

This is a truly remarkable video of historical significance.

Makes me wonder - Did Mike actually, legitimately think/suspect that Shawn was not his own child (and that she was just pretending to be)... or did Mike begin to feel certain that she was his own daughter, but didn't want to deal with the emotional/financial implications? I suppose nobody can say for sure, but I find it hard to believe the former, especially since she looked JUST like Mike, and insiders who would know have said that EVERYONE in the know in the circle of the band had zero doubt that Shawn was Mike's flesh and blood.

Maybe Mike at first was hesitant to believe it, but perhaps got caught up in his own lie of denial, even when the truth became obvious. That's the most I can give him here. Because I can't imagine how detrimental it was to Shawn for her own dad to deny that he was her dad.  That's truly messed up. Somebody who was raised without a father, to then reach out to their own father and get rejected... not just rejected, but for the father to deny that they are the father despite what had to have been evidence to the contrary... that is something which I have no words for. If I'm missing something here, I welcome someone to chime in, because I can't claim to know the whole story, but it is heartbreaking to think about.

While Dennis was no angel, and was in a bad place, and was going about things in his own undeniably messed-up manner, I can at least appreciate that he seemed to be the only person in the band who was regularly intent (even indirectly, as in here) on calling Mike out for what had to be pattern of emotionally damaging behavior adversely affecting a family member. I can't say I disagree with what I think was a portion of Dennis' aim here, that a parent who rejects their own child should be called out on it.

But the whole thing is just incredibly sad.

His appearance seemed to change a lot in his final years. I agree he looks OK here (all things considered), although significantly older than he actually was.

I found this footage incredibly fascinating; I'll leave it at that.

Well, let's say that hopefully this little piece of footage will be a nice surprise for Gage. I don't know if he has any relationship with his grandfather and here he at least has footage of himself with Mike (and his father of course).

With due respect to everyone, he possibly looks nervous because Dennis is "probably" under the influence and carrying a baby around.

If an accident happens on camera, then the Beach Boys brand and Mike's $$$ are in trouble.

Greek Tragedy levels to see Dennis like this.... :-\

Apart from the subtext here which is wonderful, this was the year that Mike shaved off his beard. It's hard to believe this is the same guy from 1970-'71, Mike's" hillbilly- Jesus " period. He shaved off about 20 years and really does look great. The way that Dennis nonchalantly walks in literally carrying Mike's guilt in his arms is hilarious.

You really think Mike's more uncomfortable about the possibility of Dennis, like what, dropping the baby, and thus Mike getting sued, than he is uncomfortable because Dennis is thrusting in front of his face all of that family baggage and controversy (on camera to boot)?

My second post in this thread was based on my instinct that someone would try to explain how this video *doesn't* have anything to do with the Mike/Shawn/Dennis situation/dysfunction.

Certainly, Dennis liked showing off his baby; he was proud. And certainly, probably most times past 1970-something, the other guys in the band were nervous about Dennis being under the influence. All of that is going on in this video. But it's also much more than just that.

Dennis is making a point to Mike, and I'm sure this wasn't the only time he did it. It just happens to have mind-blowingly been caught on video in this instance.

I'm not sure if folks are trying to be defensive of Mike when it comes to this video. That would ironic, because the *obvious* implications I've been talking about in this video certainly don't reflect particularly great on *Dennis* either. The general idea with this video is that, at least in part, Dennis is f**king with Mike by showing the baby born to Mike's cousin and Mike's alleged daughter. Whatever theoretical wrongs Mike may have possibly committed in this scenario, Dennis doing *that* was not a healing/healthy moment for anybody. It would only be antagonistic and further dysfunctional.

I'm not passing final judgment on anybody here.

It's just a really interesting piece of video from an historical perspective, with *clear* heavy interpersonal/emotional/familial/political undertones and implications.

Don't even think about dragging me into a Mike vs Dennis thing. I'm not interested.

I'm just saying how I saw the video. Not defending Mike at all. I'm a big Dennis fan for the record.

I don't detect any animosity between them here just awkwardness from the possible reasons I already mentioned.

That's how I see it. Could well be wrong but then you might be too.

I'll say this much - while I'm not fully defending the dysfunctional behavior that got caught on film, I believe that there must have been some DEEP, DEEP reasons why Dennis had so much profound spite and issues with Mike.

Meaning, in my estimation, Mike must have done some bad, hurtful stuff on a profoundly personal, cutting level to Dennis, in order for Dennis to be so vengeful as to want to embarrass Mike like that (this also goes back to Dennis knocking off Mike's hat onstage, etc). Obviously, their lifestyles and "clean living" vs. substance issues were a part of the differences that grew between those guys, but that is absolutely not the only thing that happened between them.

I think the resentment that Dennis must have had toward Mike had a big part to do with the band's artistic atrophy that Dennis probably viewed Mike as being chiefly responsible for, or at least for Mike being the cheerleader of that more than anyone else. I have heard insiders blame Mike for the loss of Brother Studio, and even if it was much more complicated that *just* Mike, I have to think that Dennis had those resentments too. Dennis' behavior didn't just come from nowhere, after all.

Al was Mr. Clean Living too, but we never saw Dennis go after Al repeatedly like that.

Am I saying Mike brought all this on himself? Not quite sure how to feel about that. Maybe. But honestly I am certainly curious why Dennis had THAT much of a problem with Mike, to that massive a level. Maybe one day we'll know. So very sad, but I think everyone wants to better understand how/why these relationships devolved the way they did, because it's part of the story, like it or not.

But the bottom line is, as much as the dysfunction is messed up and not right, I feel like Dennis had some absolutely legit bones to pick with Mike that are so often overlooked and dismissed because it's easy to just focus on the clean living vs. self medicating lifestyle stuff and chalk it all up to that.

Obviously anybody can interpret it any which way.

I just think that those who are familiar with the history of the band and its members typically share some amount of common understanding/vocabulary, so certain things are *painfully obvious*.

It's like, you can watch Dennis on that 1980 Good Morning America group appearance and just come away saying "Well, I guess Dennis was a little tired that day", or you can process that through the history of the band and realize the obvious things going on.

And as far as a "Dennis vs. Mike thing", this clip is ABSOLUTELY literally about "a Dennis vs. Mike" situation. Mike's cousin and bandmate sleeps with, marries, and has a child with Mike's alleged daughter. All the while before, during, and after that all takes place, there are continued substance abuse problems and a myriad of internecine interpersonal/band/artistic/corporate issues.

So if you don't want any part of discussing the *well-documented* issues between Dennis and Mike, that's fine, but then it kind of negates analyzing a video of Dennis crashing a Mike interview, putting his hand on Mike's neck while Mike stays completely rigid, and then introducing Mike's alleged grandson/nephew only to make a quick exit.

It's like, if you don't want any part of talking about the Beatles and Yoko, then dissecting "Let It Be" footage and audio probably isn't going to work either.

Look at it this way; Dennis and Mike had MANY, MANY issues *before* Dennis married and had a child with Mike's alleged daughter. Knowing that and then watching this video and just shrugging one's shoulders, as if Dennis was just a proud father and Mike was looking on joyously during that interview, and/or that Mike was only concerned about some sort of injury liability issues vis-a-vis Dennis (which, if true, would mean they would have never brought Dennis back into the touring band) is inexplicable in my opinion.

I'm not even getting into how to judge these guys. I'm just really pointing out at that footage and saying "Wow, I mean, look at that. Right?", and I'm then perplexed but not surprised when a few folks' reaction might actually be "What? Seems totally normal to me!"

It's like the people who think Foskett jumping from Brian's to Mike's band in 2014 was nothing more than a job change.

Totally. It's ridiculous to ignore the video's subtext.

I think this video just proves that Dennis had simply completely had it with what Dennis probably viewed as Mike getting away with bad behavior, and Dennis at least was standing up to someone I imagine he viewed as a dick. I truly believe that so many of Mike's antics post 12/28/83 would not have happened if Dennis had been around, because despite Dennis' tragic issues, Dennis (despite his manner being questionable) at least deserves credit for having the balls to put Mike in his place, which is something that was sorely lacking within the band structure after his passing. The more checks and balances that slowly started withering away for all of these years eventually led us to Mike's unquestioned power, and his 2020 antics with the brand.

I am a big fan of Mike being called out on his bullshit by his own bandmates, and I'd hope that most fans would be too (again, not saying this was a healthy manner of doing that).

It is a very sad episode indeed. This all really makes you wonder what other footage was long ago captured on tape and sitting on a VHS tape in someone's closet for decades that might make for history-changing moments for this band.

What's crazy is that this almost feels like a scripted episode of Dallas, where there's questioned paternity, backstabbing, and that show was the number one series on TV at the time in '82. The band must have felt like a real life soap opera at this time, and Mike with his RadioShack hat would be like the commercial break in the soap opera, where you get up from the BarcaLounger for a piss break.

I don't. Enjoy the next 30 pages.

It was a soap opera of course.

It's fascinating. Look at this footage. Mike is sweaty, in the middle of the night backstage waiting to go on in the middle of the night (or early morning) at a music festival in Jamaica, while Brian has literally just left to go off with Landy because he was so far off the rails, and meanwhile the Dennis/Shawn thing is happening, and you have Dennis crashing this innocuous (probably never to be broadcast) video interview.

How could someone be sitting there and not think "What am I doing with my career? With my life?"

Maybe the answers were mainly "I'm doing the only thing I know how to do" and "I'm making significant amounts of money."

It's fascinating as well that this band never appears to have ever considered, you know, taking a year off or six months off (notwithstanding early 1977). I think Carl has mentioned that he felt the band should tour every other year to build up demand and not water down the brand. But overall, it appears nobody at the end of 1982 thought "Well, Brian's in really bad shape and we have to fake-fire him to get him to Landy. Dennis is still drinking, and then the whole Shawn/Gage thing. No new albums in the offing. Maybe we should take a break for six months."

Mike even had his side gig going with Dean in 1982/83 if he was so intent on keeping active live and bringing in some money.

But the BB gigs never stopped.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was intense debate internally about whether to even cancel that *small* number of early 1984 gigs that they canceled in the wake of Dennis's passing. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody was thinking if not saying "Well, Dennis wasn't even at most of the gigs at the end of last year, sooo....."

Some time off would have been at least healthy from a standpoint of evaluating their lives, and maybe helping to focus on getting sober/healthy, but not only was the money too enticing, but some people don't want to stop and actually take a look at some deep issues, which the escapism of the road afforded a great distraction from.

Mike especially, with his corny side projects at this time, seemed comically hell bent on never leaving the road for a moment. But yeah, I get that it must have been a fun, intoxicating, money-generating thing, the only thing he knew since 20 years old. The road in and of itself was/is an addiction for some. I think ultimately it was perhaps Mike-driven fear of the band losing popularity or traction, that if they took a year off, that maybe it would harder to get back to playing big venues again, or that the band would splinter. It's definitely weird though, especially considering that  it seems like a no-brainer  for them to take some time off with this much dysfunction happening. Maybe each ex-wife that piled onto the alimony payments made them (mainly Mike) that much more fanatical about never leaving one red cent on the table when it's money that could have padded their pockets.

On the one hand, you'd think it would be easier to take some time off in late 1982 to avoid answering the "Where's Brian/How's Brian?" questions. But we must remember that in 1981/82/83, prior to the Watt thing in the summer of '83, the BBs were at a pretty low ebb as far as media attention/scrutiny. The fact that they did a run of gigs at Sun City in 1981/82 and nobody cared is one indicator of the lack of attention even the dedicated rock press was giving the band.

If you imagine Carl's 1981 departure as permanent, then watch 1981 BB gigs, and then watch those 1982/83 interviews with Mike & Dean (and their accompanying gigs), you can envision the whole BB thing severely imploding within a few more years. The brand could have ended up as Lou Christie doing gigs in Laughlin, Nevada instead of doing stadiums in the mid 80s.

That's a good point. James Watt unwittingly got the Beach Boys back in the headlines, and increased demand in them as a live act. The irony that this happened while Brian was getting his act together again, and Dennis was falling apart, is not lost on me.
I must say, though, that it bothers me a bit how drug abusing, self destructive Beach Boy is seen as the "good guy" here versus the clean living one.

Why can't it just be a beautiful moment of a father showing off his son? I love how Dennis calls him "sweet baby Gage", and then says his full name.

Of course it usually depends whose side you're on in the whole Sonny Wilson vs. Cassius Love saga. I've always been a Wilson supporter and have been very forgiving of the Wilson foibles.  I wonder though how we would feel if Mike had brought Manson into the Boy's circle and married Dennis's daughter and been a habitual drug and booze abuser. I guess some people would hate him even more than they do now... if that's possible.

The sound of the video is quite bad.

What does Dennis say to Mike just before he leaves?
He puts his hand on Mike's shoulder and says "I just wanted to..." What?
"Show him to you."
Then Mike says "Good" with a grinning fake smile.

Is that what he says? "Show him to you"?
Sorry, but I can't tell for sure with the noise in the background.

And then Mike goes on a tirade about Brian not having any breaks and overeating. And he's rolling his eyes when he says the words "psychiatric program".

This video is sad but fascinating. An amazing find!

Also, when the interviewer talks about Mike's collaboration with Jan and Dean, he says : "It's like a little Rolling Thunder Revue, isn't it?"... And Mike's weird answer makes me wonder if he has any idea what the interviewer's talking about.

“I just wanted to show him on TV”- which IMO is exactly what Dennis’ motivation was here.

Except when the interviewer asks Dennis to hold the baby up for the camera, Dennis says no. If he just wanted to show the baby "on TV", wouldn't he have said "Sure!" and struck a close-up pose for the camera?

It's absurd to ignore the subtext of this footage, and to suggest f***ing with Mike, and f***ing even harder with him by doing it *on camera*, wasn't a big part of what this was about. At the *very* least, even if we ignore all of that and just pretend Dennis just wanted to be on TV, it would be absurd for *Dennis* to not think Mike would be uncomfortable given the back story of the baby and Dennis's wife, especially considering that as of November 1982, I don't think the information was being vigorously reported by the rock press.

Man, I wish I could be oblivious enough to watch that footage and not see any tension, awkwardness, or intensity. Who knows, maybe some of the actual Beach Boys (though not Dennis or Mike in this scenario) actually shut their brain off and had to be oblivious to this stuff to get through it.

Considering what was going on with the band internally in November 1982, it's pretty funny to suggest everything's hunky dory in this footage. I've obviously never been a Mike apologist, but whether you feel bad for him or not, or whether you think he deserves this or that, or whether you think this or that is his fault or not, to watch that footage, to watch Mike try to get into what was going on with Brian (late 1982 literally being Brian's lowest point ever, arguably anyway), and then have the Shawn/Gage/Dennis thing *literally* thrust into his face during a video interview, and not notice you're watching a dude with a TON of baggage on his shoulders in real time, is to ignore so, so much.

I just hope everyone here finds a significant other that looks at you the way Mike Love looks at Dennis...

(https://i.imgur.com/sEyjkkg.gif)

In all seriousness, that look Mike gives toward Dennis when Dennis is the leaving the camera view is jolting every time I watch it. Must've been some pretty bad blood between those guys.

I think that’s the look Mike has when reading OSD’s posts! ;D

Thank you!

Based on my very limited reading of Mike's responses when questioned about Shawn Love, it seems his approach to that subject has been to shut his brain off, or not acknowledge it, perhaps to get through it who knows.

I'm pretty sure he said "I just wanted to show him to you". It seemed like he was looking at Mike when he said it.

:lol right??

Which also helps to explain why, when the interviewer asks Dennis to pose with the baby for the camera, he demurs. This is about Mike (and Mike being in front of a camera perhaps), not about "being on TV."

One might also ask "Hasn't Mike already seen the baby by now?" I guess the answer is that we don't know. Gage was born at the beginning of September 1982, so the baby was only about 10 or 11 weeks old during this footage. Also, the Beach Boys had only played around a half dozen gigs in October and November prior to this gig (and I'm not sure Dennis was at all of those gigs). So this may have been one of the first times the baby was brought to a gig, and could have been the first time Mike had seen the baby. If not, certainly one of the early times. I get the sense Mike and Dennis weren't hanging together a lot backstage at gigs when they *were* both at the gig.

It would be even more intense if this literally was the first time Dennis had shown the baby to Mike.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I think for anyone to know the history and to think there wasn't an element of Dennis trying to rub Mike's face in the mud here is an example of cognitive dissonance. Not trying to be insulting when I say that, I just honestly don't know how it's possible to interpret the video in this manner.

I mean, Mike had a RESTRAINING ORDER against Dennis to keep Dennis physically away from him in the not-too-distant past from this point in time. And Dennis repeatedly knocked Mike's hat off his head ONSTAGE with an intent to purposefully embarrass Mike (unless someone wants to concoct a different reason why Dennis would do the hat knockoff). Mike must have gotten under Dennis' skin SO much that Dennis wanted to cut Mike where it hurt as much as possible. It's very tragic, but it was Dennis lashing out in maybe the only way he knew how.  Mike obviously had pulled some power maneuvers that didn't sit well with Dennis, and/or Dennis felt severely disenfranchised and stuck by Mike's actions. Plus of course Dennis got severely beat up by Mike's brother, the list goes on.  It's not a completely black-and-white situation, I understand that too. Dennis was in a very bad place and his alcoholism made everything worse.

Doesn't make Dennis's spitefulness against Mike exactly "right", but as I said earlier I feel Mike must have done some very deeply f*cked up stuff to Dennis in order for Dennis to feel/act this way, behavior like that - especially directed at a family member - doesn't come out of nowhere. And honestly I empathize with Dennis because I think Mike has shown a history of acting unbelievably selfishly in the band at the expense of those around him, and at the expense of great art and creative potential being stifled. That was probably something that had built up in Dennis' psyche over the years, plus a host of other stuff none of us can/will ever grasp because we didn't live it.

If we kept researching, I'm sure we could find many other similar ugly instances of family drama between these 2 folks in the early 1980s. Since Shawn was Mike's daughter (and everyone around him knew it), but Mike was dragging his feet and kept denying paternity, why is it difficult to think that Dennis was trying to f*ck with Mike? It's plain as day.

To think otherwise is to think that Dennis and Mike just made up and became buddies, and were totally hunky dory, and that Gage's mom wasn't Mike's daughter who he denied paternity of. None of that happened, and pretending this is just Dennis innocuously showing off his kid on TV is just mental acrobatics I cannot grasp.

Unlike perhaps certain people in the community, Dennis can hate Mike and equally not have every action and decision he makes be based around hating Mike.

If we are going to make arguments with lots of assumptions and "must have"s, it's well known that Dennis adored Gage and so he must have wanted to show him to everyone, including say the tv people.

I think that Dennis probably did simply want to show off his kid to the camera motivated simply out of being a proud dad - and if it had been someone else, for example, Al being interviewed at that moment in time - Dennis might well have done the same thing, and walked into view with his baby. That's entirely possible too. It doesn't mean an innocent motivation scenario, plus Dennis' probable desire to f*ck with Mike in a passive aggressive manner - which of course could easily be denied and explained away as merely showing off his kid - are mutually exclusive. They can both be true to some degree.

Dennis and Mike had a severely soured relationship, plus Dennis' family unit at that moment was something that I doubt Mike could look at and not think about how he (Mike) dropped the ball as a father.

So even if the thought of how Mike would react to this happening on videotape somehow didn't even cross Dennis' mind whatsoever (as seems to be your claim?), I'm sure Mike's own connection to the Dennis/Shawn/Gage trio crossed Mike's mind during this interview.

And I'm sure Mike was worrying in the back of his mind how he'd respond if Dennis mentioned something to the interviewer about Mike being Gage's grandfather. I mean, that would just put Mike in THE most awkward position, and especially in a public manner on videotape....  that fear of how this all could unfold - if Dennis decided to push some buttons even further - is exactly what Dennis could hold over Mike's head at that moment in time.

That's such a great point.  In real time, ML had no idea whether Denny was going to blurt out something along the lines of "Meet your grandson!" 

And considering their history of then-recent acrimony, I can't understand how anybody could logically think Mike would consider such a scenario as to be so out of the question as to be something he wouldn't even remotely worry about. Especially if alcohol were involved and inhibitions were lowered even further.

Of course Mike was worrying about that, and of course Dennis knew Mike would worry about it and that's the whole point. Sad but true.

Mike obviously didn't mention on camera that this was his own grandson either, because it wasn't something he wanted the interviewer to know or inquire further about.

Dennis does a similar “interview crash” around 7:55 here:

https://youtu.be/dbQZkKzV4O0

Being of the opinion that Dennis’ PRIMARY motivation is simply to show off his son doesn’t mean one is ignoring subtext or being willfully ignorant to the tensions around the band.

It just means that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I think Mike is definitely thinking, “here comes Dennis, carrying a baby, hope he doesn’t do anything weird”. But that doesn’t mean Dennis is trying to use his son to bait Mike and make an uncomfortable scene and that Mike is afraid of being “exposed” on camera.

But I'm sure you can imagine that Mike had to know that it was not just "a baby", but Dennis' newborn son who also happened to be Mike's grandson. And if Mike did not know that, and merely assumed it was just a random baby, he'd have to be pretty dense, plus he would find out literally seconds later when Dennis introduced Gage as his son.

I do agree that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but I don't think this is one of those times.

Also, I don't think Dennis was trying to "bait" Mike into anything. It's more just to make Mike squirm a bit deep down. I don't think Dennis is trying to get Mike to step away awkwardly or do anything weird. All it is, IMO, is spur of the moment not-so-subtle passive aggression at its finest. A sneak attack subliminal uppercut to Cassius Love by Sonny Wilson's brother.

Shame they didn't let us hear what Dennis had to say there, Donny! Also a shame they felt the need to dub in the studio recordings over the live concert footage on most of this, instead of letting us hear the band for real.

Yes, it's a weird clip ha. But to me, Dennis walks up to Al in a similar way as he did to Mike in the other clip ... IMO suggesting Dennis was just kinda being himself.

Haven't you ever had weird situations or tensions within your family in the past? I certainly have. While the subtext is usually somewhere lurking in the background, you can still have normal interactions. If you had a situation where a sibling or cousin had stolen money from you, and you were together with family for Thanksgiving and asked them, "can I borrow your salt shaker?" ... and someone were filming- is there hidden meaning in the comment? Or are you simply asking for salt?

I'm not saying I know everything that is going on in the video. And yes it's interesting. But from everything I know about Dennis, I think he just wanted to show off his son and was behaving as he normally seemed to. Which was yes, a bit erratic. And Mike was uncomfortable because Dennis was erratic on camera with a child. That is all, IMO.

Here is the dialog from when Dennis entered the shot:

Dennis: "How you guys doin'?"

Interviewer: "Hello, Dennis."

Mike: "Hi Dennis."

Dennis: "Hi. What's goin' on?"

Mike: "A little interview with Entertainment Tonight."

Dennis: "Good. Here we go. [holds up Gage, who is sleeping]. Sweet baby Gage."

Interviewer: "What's his name?"

Dennis: "Sweet Baby Gage."

Mike: "Gage."

Dennis: "Gage Dennis Wilson. [touches Mike's shoulder] I just wanted to show him on TV."

Mike: "Good."

Interviewer: "Hey, hold him up. Hold him up for the camera."

Dennis: "No that's fine, that's fine" [remember Gage is sleeping].

Yes, the situation surrounding the two is weird, and clearly there is tension. But to me, this seems like an innocent event. I think it's the Steven Gaines book that is the only place that suggests all this kind of stuff about Dennis getting back at Mike, etc.

... but I'm not sure all of that stuff is really as legit as Dennis being a proud father here. Just one man's opinion. When a child is born, all of those types of things melt by the wayside. I see Dennis as a proud father in this clip. I don't see anything else that is weird.

Agreed. That's how I see it, too.

Let's make that three, me too.

That's 3 more people suffering from cognitive dissonance then  ;D

I don't think anything about the Mike/Shawn/Dennis/Gage situation vis-a-vis this video is remotely of the "a cigar is just a cigar" variety.

And we're also getting bogged down in the semantics of the heavy/awkward implications of the events in the video versus a specific, ascribable Dennis motive. That is, even if you want to choose to assume Dennis is of pure motives of nothing more than being a proud father (and I don't think the Steven Gaines book is *only* source that would imply Dennis might f**k with Mike in various ways even in those later years), the obvious intense awkwardness and unease Mike would or could or should feel in that moment would mean the footage is depicting something intense and not just happy and innocuous. As I've said previously, if Dennis had no weird motives, he absolutely *should* have known the awkward implications of doing this to Mike.

I've never been one to regularly dredge up and obsess over the Mike/Shawn/Dennis/Gage situation, and the 27 ways in which it was dysfunctional and awkward. But some fans really just want to ignore it. To *not* ignore it is not to pass final judgment on any of these people or assume anything. It's truly more of a situation where any adult with common sense and a good working knowledge of the band's history would have to willfully ignore all of that to watch this footage and not notice the clear context and subtext. Again, not only was this a tense time due to the Shawn/Dennis stuff. *NOVEMBER 1982* was one of the heaviest, stressful times in the HISTORY of the band. Dennis and his beautiful baby could be (and I think was) both a beautiful, pure, innocent thing in the midst of all of that heaviness, but ALSO *absolutely* one of the main CAUSES of the heaviness and stress.

To point this all out, to say "Wow, look at that footage. That's intense and awkward for a hundred reasons" is not to say Dennis wasn't a proud father, and it's not to say the band's dysfunctional aspects were too debilitating (they clearly *weren't*; they continued to tour incessantly through *all* of this).

(https://i.imgur.com/sEyjkkg.gif)

Thanks, HeyJude.

I have no doubt that Dennis was a proud father here. But I'll be the jackass and state that this is also the guy who got into domestic disputes with the mother of this child to the point of grabbing her hair and yanking her around, destroying property, etc. This is also the guy that lit a car on fire out of anger. Point being, he was mentally (and physically) a complete disaster toward the end of his life - making very poor decisions that had a negative impact on his children, friends, and family - especially when it came to his cousin Mike. Comparing this moment to a Thanksgiving salt-shaker request is trivializing this moment to the point of absurdity. Let's look at this from Mike's perspective: this is literally Mike's cousin walking up to Mike with the child he made with Mike's daughter - to show off during a TV interview with Mike.

This is Mike's cousin, who just three years prior punched Mike backstage, then proceeded to beat him onstage during the concert. This is Mike's cousin that had a restraining order against him from Mike not too long before this interview. This is Mike's cousin that kept knocking Mike's hat off during concerts to embarrass Mike about his bald head.

When you look at the context of all that was going on here, just simple logic tells us that this was clearly not a move that would be comfortable for Mike...and I posted the above gif for a reason: clearly Mike isn't happy with Dennis after that exchange. Not only is Dennis crashing the interview, but he's crashing it with Mike's grandson/cousin's kid to show him off on television.

TBH I have no idea what Dennis is thinking in this clip, but then neither does anyone else here. All we can do is speculate, and it is just logical to speculate with the context of the turbulent relationship that Dennis had with Mike during this time. Nothing in the Beach Boys world is black and white. They're proving this even to this very day.

FYI, from various sources I've seen, it seems there actually was no restraining order between Mike and Dennis. The latter definitely had a restraining order filed against Stan Love (and Rocky P.) after the Super Bowl Sunday incident. I think after Dennis died, it was erroneously reported in the press that the restraining order was between Dennis and Mike, when it was actually Dennis and Stan.

Interesting. Well that's actually good to hear because it's very sad to think of there being a restraining order between two bandmates who are also cousins.  There's so much sadness associated with this band that it's tough to take sometimes (of course also so much wonderful joy too).

The bottom line is, certainly I'll admit nobody can really conclusively know the exact reasons and motivations on the video. We are all just making educated guesses here. It will always just be speculation. I certainly wasn't trying to be negative for the sake of being negative or for the sake of knocking Mike, I was simply stating what I believed to genuinely be happening on the video but again that's just my guess, and there's no way to conclusively prove anything.

May Dennis rest in peace.❤️

The Rolling Stone feature you're referencing quotes Shawn as that happening right after she'd punched him in the face.

I have a copy of the pictures that were taken during this interview. The photographer is one of my best friends, and he was down there covering the concert for a well-known magazine of the time. I have a written agreement with him that I would never make copies of the pictures. I was shocked when I saw the video footage of this interview.