The Smiley Smile Message Board

Since we had the new wave thread, why not the punk thread, since new wave was a watered down, commercialized punk.

Favorite punk band is The Clash. Favorite punk influences are the MC5 and the Velvets.

Favorite punk band is The Ramones. Favorite punk influence are the Stooges.

Kind of reminds me of an old Smile board poll.

Is your household a Stooges Household or a Velvets household?

Funny this should come up, I'm on a major Pistols/Clash kick at the moment. I'm on a mission trying to gather together all the weird little oddities both band's have released that never made it onto the major compilations.

Pistols: Here We Go Again, Black Leather, the version of Silly Thing with Steve on vocals instead of Paul, the alternate take of Who Killed Bambi. (Some of you guys probably wouldn't consider the post-Rotten band to be the Pistols at all, but I like 'em. Less menace, more dumb fun, but Cook 'n Jones could still build up a head of steam.)

Clash: a clutch of b-sides and remixes. Almost there.

I'm real close to having everything by both bands.

Do you have those Chris? I was on a Devo website for half the night last night reading up on that good early stuff. Wanna get it, I LOVE the original Jocko Homo, one of the greatest singles of the seventies.

I don't think Paul sings on any version of "Silly Thing."  As far as I know that's a misprint.  It says it on The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle, right?  Awesome song, though.  Even Lydon liked it.

The Clash definitely have more rare stuff than the Pistols (right?), thanks to 12" singles, I guess.  Good luck!  Do you have Rat Patrol?


I have them all, and they're fucking fantastic.  All 3 volumes are worth seeking out.  The first two definitely give you a slightly different picture of the group.  Lost origins of punk like finding early Television bootlegs or hearing Rocket From the Tombs.

I listened to these three in the 70's and I STILL listen to them:

- The New York Dolls (sad story, really)
- The Dictators (remember them?)
- The Stranglers (early period was a favorite)

Don't forget The Modern Lovers.

Buzzcocks.



 
And for the record, I checked with the missus and our household is most certainly a Velvets household!


 

Chris,

Yeah, the Clash have more rarities than the Pistols, as you said, weird 12-inchers, flexis and stuff.

I know for sure there are two distinct Silly Things. I've got them both, but I want the rarer one on CD, I only have an old single. The Cook 'n Jones website "Kick Down The Doors" says the version on the Swindle album is Paul, and the later rerecording for the single had Steve on the mic. It's on a comp called "The Swindle Continues" which I'll have to get. That's also got "Here We Go Again" so it'll be two birds with one stone.

Yep, I have Rat Patrol. Drop me a line if you need it. I like it. It would've been a suicidally uncommercial move after Sandinista, a double album of yet more "self indulgence", but given that I love Sandinista, that's a pretty appealing proposition.

Velvets forever.

Chance -- my mistake on the Cook/Jones stuff.  The Swindle Continues has an awesome version.  That was actually the first Sex Pistols CD I got, back in 7th grade.

The first style of music I fell in love with!
Descendents, All, Dagnasty and Jawbreaker are among my favorites.

I love me some Buzzcocks (Singles Going Steady, mainly), The Jam (all of it), Sex Pistols (album, Spunk bootleg), Ramones (first 5 albums), The Clash(some, anyway). I also like X and X-Ray Spex.

I'm SO a New York punk guy rather than a British one. Fave "punk" bands -- Television, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, Ramones, Talking Heads, Blondie.

Other unmentioned names THE DAMNED, THE ADVERTS, GEN X, SLAUGHTER AND THE DOG, SLF, SIOUXIE AND THE BANSHEES, JOHNNY THUNDERS, RICHARD HELL

Me likey UK and LA punk!

the mighty Subway Sect!

and tha Germs

SLF--that took me a second to figure that out.

my fave punk band is a local  group here in Boston called Mission of Burma .a lot of you probably never heard these guy's . they had a local hit called That's when i reach for my revolver......they were sorta of a arty punk band , one of the guy's would play tape loops during a show. And they played LOUD .so LOUD that the lead singer Roger miller had to quit because of ringing in his ears.

Oh yeah, I've heard of them. I got the Rykodisc reissue of their Vs. album, but it's one of those "buy it, listen to it once" things for me.  :-\

MoB are fantastic--plus they're back together and from most accounts are just as good.  Haven't seen them or heard their new recordings but I do like vs. quite a bit.  Even got into the Birdsongs of the Meszoic(sp) stuff for a bit; they brought up the tape loops to the fore on those.  A little more post punk maybe. 

signals, calls and marches  was the EP i bought back in 1981........this is the one you want to get!
 


 

Suicide kicks ass.

YES! Of course! Bangs her forehead!

Irish punk : Rudi, The Outcasts, The Vipers, The idiots
French punk : Stinky Toys, Oberkampf, La Souris déglinguée, Wunderbach, Little Bob Story

And those guys who came before punk: Dr Feelgood, Eddie and the Hot Rods

Love the Rods, and just got my first taste of the 101'ers in recent weeks - really like that stuff too! I was surprised how good they were.

We need to mention the Tom Robinson Band, too. "Power In The Darkness" is a great album.

Indeed the 101ers came to mind, then I forgot, so glad you mentioned them. Yes whatever happened to Barry Masters?

The Damned. The only real punk band.

The Stooges, to me, are the only "true" punk band. Everybody else just seems like fashion victims, in some respects. But I never doubt Iggy's conviction -- with the Stooges (gotta qualify) -- for a second.

But I'm also quite fond of "punks" the Only Ones, esp. that song "The Beast," which is about the seductive nature of corruption and its addictive power. Those great lines -- "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink / Think about it / All you gotta do is think about it " -- the way Peter Perrett emphasizes that you "think about it," that he isn't just recycling some hoary cliche, that he's making another point entirely: that you can't corrupt somebody who doesn't wanna be corrupted -- man, it just sends chills up my spine. Fucking-A brilliant.

Yes!


And yes!

The only punks bands I really like are the Misfits, Siouxsie and the Banshees (though their later stuff is most certainly not punk), and Me First and the Gimme Gimmes. The first two mainly because of the lyrical content, and Me First because they're a cover band, and I love covers.

I'm not really a fan of the genre.

I have always loved the ANTI-NOWHERE LEAGUE...... "So what" is a classic punk song with deep, meaningful lyrics.

Dead Kennedies first album

Black Flag's first album (but more technically the creation of hardcore)

THE FALL

Australia's RADIO BIRDMAN

Australia's THE SAINTS "I'm Stranded"

One of my favorite punk tracks I love is a song by the FEEDERZ regarding doing something really naughty to Jesus... can't meantion the title here but its a classic.

THAT is real punk music, unlike the poseuring corporate "punk" of today. I can't believe they call it "punk" too, sacrilidge!

Naw. Try the Bomp "I Got a Right" 7" by Iggy and the Stooges.

Boxer, you're exactly right.  Everyone I've played that to has the same reaction.  Iggy was so far ahead.


Great stuff.  I think Plastic Surgery Disasters is the best DK stuff, and Damaged is unstoppable.  Black Flag wasn't a whole lot before that, but Damaged is really something.

I could never bring myself to get too attached to that one, fear of upsetting the wrong people "upstairs"! :P Where'd you hear that, the "Let Them Eat Jellybeans" comp? That's got some good stuff on it.

I can't believe -- CAN'T BELIEVE -- OK, so Iggy is first, best, etc., but my fave -- how could I even have momentarily forgotten this? -- my fave punk band of all is the great FLIPPER.

Two words: "Get Away." It's that rare punk song so real it can make you cry.

Dude, Flipper is awesome.  I only have Generic, but I love it.  They manage to sound structured and formless at the same time.  People compare them to Metal Machine Music, and it's like a really catchy version of that.

Also, Wire.  Britain's stuff really took off when they mutated the early punk style.  PiL, Magazine, Wire, Pete Shelley, and the Fall were pretty interesting.  Kind of like what the Beatles, etc., did with Chuck Berry, I guess.

"Generic" is just so ... wow. But you've gotta get "Sex Bomb Baby!" for "Get Away" and the single version of the title cut, which is the most diabolically hysterical (funny AND the other kind) thing I've ever heard. "Sex Bomb Baby!": the other best Flipper album.

Gotta agree with you on BOTH counts...

Glad to see The Only Ones mentioned, the Replacements were heavily influenced by this band, great power pop punk tunes: Another Girl, Another Planet; Lovers Of Today; City of Fun; You've Got To Pay (and pay and pay) the list goes on... fans should check out: "Darkness and Light: the Complete BBC Recordings" to hear great great live recordings...

Wire are so totally underated.

So are Magazine

Yeah.. and what a great comp it be! The Jokes on you, Corporate food, Isotope soap (!!!)

Actually I got it wrong - the Feederz song is about Jesus doing something to you, not the other way around. Do a google search for Feederz and their website has all that first album available as mp3 downloads... very punk and very cool. The lead singer went on to work for Microsoft... very interesting!

Generic is definitely one of the greatest punk records ever. It creates a mood unlike any other and Sex Bomb Baby is genius!

One thing worth mentioning about the punk era is how fast it all came and went, but also the fact that it spread like wild fire in the Western hemisphere, because of its social relevance to so many youngpeople at the time.

The fact that a lot of punk songs are still relevant speaks badly for the effect it's had on political values so far. I'd expect that to change in the next 20 years, though. Some things take time.

The fact that John Lydon now defends British monarchy as tradition speaks badly of his effect on politics.

Wow, that's enough for me to never want to listen to The Sex Pistols ever again. Poseur. What happened to the "revolution", man?

It's from a recent interview:


I get his point...to a point...but come on, you're defending people who are given rule just because of their birth?  He's the last person I would expect to defend a class system.

I guess impending old age has totally evaporated his punk sensibility.

That's probably the problem with punk and why its messages are still relevant. By the time they get old enough to be in a position of power (I'm thinking politically, here), they've lost their edge or no one would give them the power, anyway. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, neccessarily, but it's sort of a fact of life.

Then again, my opinion here is entirely uninformed and just based on my casual observances, so if anyone wants to argue it, I'm all for it.

Chris, thanks for posting that. After some other Lydon interviews of the last few years, I'm not surprised. If Lydon of 1975 had met Lydon of 2005 he would have called him an old wanker.

I don't think he'd want it any other way!

How come nobody's mentioned Rancid?? "Out Come The Wolf's" is a killer record.
Doe's anyone remember Jason & The Scorchers??? Punk-abilly at its Best!!

I guess Green Day doesn't count anymore as Punk??  Though "American Idiot" is a classic already and will be 20 years from now.
Big Bri

Green Day sold out, they're pop now.

Cramerica,
  I was waitin' for that one! LOL
Bri

You're welcome.  And Mitchell may be right.  Lydon isn't too predictable.  Who the f*** knows.

They always were, even when they were 16.

Amen, Ian.

I wouldn't pay to much attention to what Lydon says now. He is a punk no more. Money does this to ya, and he knows it, remember "Big business is very wiiiiiiise" and that wasn't in 2005. Which is the reason why punk was so ephemeral, they were an easy target for being recuperated. BUT the songs remain, and not all people suffer from amnesia. How could Lydon NOT be disillusioned by Blairite politics, not that I am defending his curent POV. He is just a reflection of the effects of 25 odd years of Thatcherism unchallenged by what followed. The 1984 miners strike in Britain, the unions sell out and their defeat signed the death warrant to class struggle in the UK and many other European countries.

I think Lydon is always worth paying attention to, even if he's dead wrong.

Rancid are actually really awesome, and my wife swears by Operation Ivy as well!

I said paying attention to what he said, :-)

Uh huh.

uh huh HUH! There is an Irish play called "Philadelphia here I come!"

Hahaha, you're going psycho tonight.  But, even Lydon's most inane thoughts are worth HEARING from his mouth :)

Phillay, Phillayyyy....how old is your play?

Brian Friel is the word,
1964 is the year
http://www.theatermania.com/content/news.cfm/story/6353

Work will make you insane, sorta :-)

An anything provoking is worth listening to, but the lesson of its content is worth sh*t to you.
It's all in the stance.

I know this is an old thread but the way I see it it's as relevant as ever! KICK OUT THE JAMS mo'fos!!


*cough*



I finally got around to reading this handy little masterpiece:

(http://oi61.tinypic.com/oterrp.jpg)

Anyone know it? Basically it's the history of punk rock and related styles, pieced together of interview fragments with all the major players. It's as (un)filtered as this particular approach allows (which doesn't make it messy but rather highly entertaining), freakishly candid and massively informative. Trust me, McNeil and McCain exhaust all the adverbs for positive criticism you might think you know. And then you just stand there, swept away. And that, ladies and germs, is punk.

Essential recommendation for all veneres in furs and dead boys!

Please Kill Me is hilarious, especially those stories of Dee Dee Ramone and his wife having those scary fights. They were the original Sid & Nancy :lol

As far as punk rock goes, THE DAMNED were the best. They knew how to play their instruments and write excellent songs (sorry, but to me The Clash couldn't do either of those things...The Clash are way over-rated). Check out the Damned's Machine Gun Etiquette or Strawberries album. There are moments of psychedlia and pop perfection. Captain Sensible is insanely under-rated as a guitarist, singer and songwriter.

Completely agree about the Damned and Sensible.

But the Clash couldn't play?  What were they doing on those double and triple albums--slapping strings and grunting?  I don't see how they're inferior to the Damned as far as playing goes.  Ditto the Stranglers or Magazine or many other bands.

They could 'play', just not as good as the Damned or The Stranglers. Maybe I was being a tad rough on the Clash. I'm a big fan of 70s era punk. There were some great bands back then like The Buzzcocks, X, The Weirdos, The Ramones, Dead Boys, The Electric Chairs. I just don't dig the Clash. I don't like anything on that Sandanista album. But hey, lots of people dig them. My loss then, right? I like a few tunes off their first LP (White Riot is cool). I'm not a fan of reggae music really. I never liked that punk-reggae or punk-ska combination. Op Ivy doesn't work for me. But again, lots of people like it, so...

Same here! There's very few Clash tracks I like.. Great band, just not my kind of punk.

I just watched a fascinating documentary last week on the Clash, I'd highly recommend it to anyone posting in this thread. It was on a cable channel I can't remember....It was called "The Rise And Fall Of The Clash".

Maybe it was the focus of the producers, but I came away thinking much more of Mick Jones' role in the band and their sound, as I think he had been overshadowed by Joe Strummer's image especially after Joe passed away. The great unspoken words on the Clash are what they became after Mick Jones was fired, and it was nothing less than a farce and a shambles...musically and otherwise. And yet Strummer's posthumous legacy carries on a notion that maybe admirers want to believe versus what really happened in the 80's to this band.

Apart from that Clash comment, what I always have a hard time with in general when discussing punk is the definition of punk music and the non-musical elements of punk music which can sometimes be over-romanticized as an image replacing reality.

'Punk' means different things to different people. The 'crusty anarcho punx' feel that punk is only authentic when it's 100% DIY with absolutely no major label help, which excludes lots of early punk since most of them were on big labels. That doesn't describe it musically. For somebody like me, 'punk rock' as a music form is a basic high-energy hard-rock type of music with an angst or rebellious nature to it, but that could describe a song like 'All I Want To Do' from 20/20. I think The Ramones, whether they meant to or not, made the purest form of what I'm trying to describe. Same with The Damned's first album. The original punks were rebelling against dinosaur stadium rock like ELP and disco. Of course 'punk' is a fashion too. I won't get into that because everybody knows what punk fashion looks like. 'Punk' is an attitude. Anti-This and Anti-That. Some punk bands (actually most punk bands) are left wing (Crass, Dead Kennedys, Discharge) whilst some are right wing (like those terrible skinhead bands).

I prefer the early days of punk when the bands were unique. Todays it's all uniformed...no originality.

I think that's fair.  You're not really saying they can't play, just that you don't like the style of most of their songs.

That was a decent documentary.  Jones was the brains of the group.  Those types are often not as appreciate as the face of the group, unfortunately.  Though that's not meant to be against Strummer.  They both wrote the songs, for the most part.

absolutely right bout All I want to do from 20/20, that was punk before it was ccalled it, same goes for Let us go pn this way & Roller skating child from Love You...with the Ramones being the greatest and most substantial next to the BBs it makes sense. Best punk groups:: Ramones, Dictators, Descendents, Queers, Travoltas, Fear, Minutemen, Black Flag (damaged & tv party), Angry Samoans, Agent Orange, and the Surf Punks...also the first Skrewdriver before the nazi sh*t.

You didn't list the Misfits and My War, Everything Went Black and The First Four Years are a lot better than Damaged. ADMIT IT.

Early black flag was great but they were in constant transitional phase before rollins,,Damaged was the band at their peak.

I'd add The Damned, Dead Kennedys and The Buzzcocks to that list. But I can't agree that The Queers or The Travoltas belong in a Best Punk Groups list (well not mine anyway...) And also definitely not Skrewdriver (and that includes their non-racist stuff like All Skrewed Up...overrated by the Oi scene...bleccchhH!!!!!!!) I'm not sure that the Surf Punks are a legit 'punk' band. More of a silly loud-new-wave-comedy band. I do, however, agree that The Dictators, Fear, Angry Samoans, Minutemen and (early) Black Flag were freakin' great punk bands. Fear were incredible. Lee Ving is a great singer when he wants to actually sing! And their drummer Spit Stix was a machine!! His beats were insanely tight and technical. They should have made more albums. I think they only have 3 studio albums. I love the first two (The Record, More Beer). Dead Kennedys were a talented band too. I was lucky enough to play two shows with my old band opening for the Dead Kennedys two nights back to back. You could really hear the surf rock influence in East Bay Ray's playing. But yeah back in the day there were some great punk bands. But I can't say I enjoy any punk from the 90s or 2000s. Same goes for Prog Rock with me. Just nothing grabs me like the old sh*t.

Eh. Henry sounds raspy/tired on much of the album and the mix sucks, and not in any "omg it's so lofi and kewl" punk rock sorta way.

My War is better. Admit it.

Also, the Misfits were better than every band you named sans maybe The Ramones.

ADMIT IT.

The ramones rule! They combined 1970s punk and retro nostalgia better than anybody. End of the century proved they could do 1960s Pop with the best of them.

Agreed. Pleasant Dreams is one of my favorites.

The queers and travoltas may not have been in the first wave but the talent of joe king and perry leenhouts is staggering. Also how were the surf punks not a legit punk band when they DIY and were one of the pioneering groups along w the weirdos and dickes??

I wouldn't consider the Surf Punks a 'pioneering' group (I like them though, so don't get me wrong). They just remind me more of bands like Blotto (I Wanna Be A Lifeguard) rather than bands like The Germs or Fear. However, I like some of their stuff. The "Oh No Not Them Again" album is an entertaining record.

the first album aka my beach & second locals only are great, oh no not them again is a joke for sure tho,very weak.