The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: NateRuvin on February 19, 2018, 11:23:40 AM



Title: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: NateRuvin on February 19, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Al Jardine is often recognized as one of the most important vocalists and guitarists in The Beach Boys music, but his bass playing contributions are also very impressive. He played a lot of the signature bass lines, with a great feel and tone (provided by playing with a pick- like Ray Pohlman and Carol Kaye, who get most of the praise)

His impressive credits include

Catch A Wave, Wendy, I Get Around (doubled by Ray Pohlman and Glen Campbell), Fun Fun Fun, All Summer Long, She Knows Me Too Well, as well as many other classics. If you go back and listen to those records, you can see that Al was actually quite an accomplished bassist.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: yrplace on February 19, 2018, 01:01:16 PM
Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Rob Dean on February 19, 2018, 02:18:23 PM
Yep, certainly credit where its due.
I really don't believe it has been widely recognised before, thus fair play to the OP


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 19, 2018, 03:00:20 PM
This was a revelation to discover, now more than a decade ago or so, that Al had played bass on so many classic Beach Boys recordings. I'll never forget that upon interviewing him for the first time with that knowledge at hand in 2006 I immediately praised him for it, saying it's really fantastic that you played bass on these great Beach Boys sessions! His response was "It's only four strings." That is so typical Al.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: tpesky on February 19, 2018, 06:23:13 PM
I believe Dance Dance Dance as well.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Lady Lynda on February 19, 2018, 06:26:32 PM
Yet another testament to the talent that each member contributed to the group.   


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: rab2591 on February 19, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
Awesome thread, I had no idea!


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 19, 2018, 07:24:59 PM
I believe Dance Dance Dance as well.

He played guitar on that.


It's really hard to get Al to talk about his bass playing, for sure.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: All Summer Long on February 19, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
Should we maybe make a list of the songs where Al played bass?


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Rob Dean on February 20, 2018, 12:22:21 AM
Should we maybe make a list of the songs where Al played bass?

No we had better not, Carol Kaye will no doubt refute his claims   ::)


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: petsoundsnola on February 20, 2018, 06:02:47 AM
Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun

Wow!  I knew about Catch a Wave and a few others, but didn't realize he played bass on those.  Fantastic!


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2018, 06:57:54 AM
Al's a much better musician than he gets credit for, and better than even he usually lets on. As I've often mentioned, I caught him at a 2005 gig with a semi-pickup band, and Al did a number of the vintage Carl/Dave style leads. He can actually play some of those, but almost never does.

I liken Al's musicianship to being a bit like George Harrison in the 1967-ish timeframe. Harrison clearly had other interests and in some ways atrophied as a "lead" guitarist. He eventually got back in the groove, and also chose the path of something more unique to suit his style (slide). I think Al eventually had other guys in the live band (and in the studio) to do more of the musical heavy-lifting, so he never needed to progress his guitar playing. And certainly, while he occasionally strapped on the bass for a song here and there into the late 70s and early 80s, he eventually phased out any substantial amount of bass playing.

But I think the ability is intact when he chooses to use it. Not only can he do more leads than one might assume, but he can do some great acoustic guitar work, heard in stuff like his "Stars and Stripes" era re-recording of "California Saga."


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: NateRuvin on February 20, 2018, 07:13:56 AM
Where can I hear the re-recording of Cal Saga?


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: HeyJude on February 20, 2018, 09:08:45 AM
Where can I hear the re-recording of Cal Saga?

You can hear a bit of it in the "Endless Harmony" soundtrack near the end, underneath footage of Al at his home.

The full song was released on an old CD bundled with an issue of ESQ, back around 2002 or 2004 or so I believe. I'm not sure if it's on YouTube or not; a quick search doesn't show it but there are a gazillion versions of the song so it's hard to say for sure.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: guitarfool2002 on February 20, 2018, 09:59:13 AM
No doubt Al played some classic bass tracks on some all-time classic records. So the million-dollar question comes in 3...2...1...

Why didn't Al play bass on the road after Brian stopped touring regularly? The fact Al played bass on that many of the hits makes the decision to bring Glen Campbell, one of the best guitarists in LA, onto the stage and have him play bass while the guy who played a lot of the parts was there.

And overall, why didn't Al play more bass live through the years?


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 20, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
No doubt Al played some classic bass tracks on some all-time classic records. So the million-dollar question comes in 3...2...1...

Why didn't Al play bass on the road after Brian stopped touring regularly? The fact Al played bass on that many of the hits makes the decision to bring Glen Campbell, one of the best guitarists in LA, onto the stage and have him play bass while the guy who played a lot of the parts was there.

And overall, why didn't Al play more bass live through the years?

Maybe it's as simple as he didn't want to?  I can't think of any other good reason that the de facto studio bassist for a few years  (kinda he was!) would not play bass on the road.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 20, 2018, 01:23:50 PM
Well he certainly played his share of bass on the road in 1963, but as GF stated once Brian was gone in '65 why didn't he resume his touring bass role? And Glen C in particular credited Al for helping him learn his bass parts when he joined. Perhaps it came down to the fact that it's easier to sing and play rhythm guitar than it is to sing and play bass. Give the harder job to the new guy, which Al kind of was in '63, but wasn't in '65.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: tpesky on February 20, 2018, 06:21:12 PM
Yup it would seem to be he just didn't want to. It is hard and Al was singing singing most of the challenging falsettos at that point. There were numerous times where Al playing bass might have shored some things up in the live act. Didn't Dave Marks reportedly turned down a chance to rejoin in part because he would have to play bass?


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Terry on February 21, 2018, 11:11:27 AM
No doubt Al played some classic bass tracks on some all-time classic records. So the million-dollar question comes in 3...2...1...

Why didn't Al play bass on the road after Brian stopped touring regularly? The fact Al played bass on that many of the hits makes the decision to bring Glen Campbell, one of the best guitarists in LA, onto the stage and have him play bass while the guy who played a lot of the parts was there.

And overall, why didn't Al play more bass live through the years?

I'm guessing from my own experience, is that it's quite a bit more difficult to sing well and play bass well at the same time and in rhythm.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: HeyJude on February 21, 2018, 11:49:13 AM
Well he certainly played his share of bass on the road in 1963, but as GF stated once Brian was gone in '65 why didn't he resume his touring bass role? And Glen C in particular credited Al for helping him learn his bass parts when he joined. Perhaps it came down to the fact that it's easier to sing and play rhythm guitar than it is to sing and play bass. Give the harder job to the new guy, which Al kind of was in '63, but wasn't in '65.

I always figured that, with some scattered exceptions after Dave left and Al joined, and Brian missed shows on a one-off basis resulting in a four-piece, they wanted to stay as a five-piece lineup to flesh the sound out (particularly the vocals).

So if Al had switched to bass in '65, they still would have brought someone else on that would have presumably then either played rhythm guitar or played some utilitarian role jumping around (which is eventually what Bruce became switching between organ and bass). I'm guessing Al either let it be known he'd prefer to play guitar and therefore they sought out "Brian" replacements that could play mostly bass, or they simply kept the other members locked into their positions in '65 and wanted to a straight bass-for-bass replacement in replacing Brian.

I think at least through the late 60s, Bruce, Al, and Carl all played bass at one time or another. So I think it was a lot of switching around.



Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: HeyJude on February 21, 2018, 12:04:23 PM
Here's Al during a fill-in stint for Brian while Dave was still in the band:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DK1RLydW4AAogpL.jpg)

Here's one of the weird cases post-Dave where Brian missed an afternoon show and Al just played bass (playing Brian's white Precision Bass it should be noted). This is Cupertino High School in March of '64:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/482386_10151357111778264_375820892_n.jpg?oh=32589a8bfb1958ecdbcbbaebd9935ee3&oe=5B1E8ED0)

Al on bass circa 1977:

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/0a9201bfb73538a796109619e4f8991b/tumblr_mhs7pgJ54f1ql5mnto1_500.png)

Here's Al on bass in 1985:

(http://www.ripopmusic.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/BEAVER-BROWN-BEACH-BOYS-WEB1.jpg)

And of course, just last month:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26993858_1732731743451780_5286071957480365848_n.jpg?oh=a30c37e1c6c26aa5b85b62eb4ba0594e&oe=5B0917B1)


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 21, 2018, 01:28:59 PM
Those pics are so cool. Al in general is one cool dude.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Jay on February 21, 2018, 01:42:15 PM
Does anybody know the last time he played bass in the beach boys? I was surprised to see Al playing bass when I first saw the 1983 Seattle show. I didn't know he was playing bass that late in the group.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Gettin Hungry on February 22, 2018, 08:23:48 AM
Shout out to Blossom Music Center! My neck of the woods!


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Emdeeh on February 22, 2018, 10:42:55 AM
I saw Al playing bass with the BBs on at least one number in Dec. 1984.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: c-man on February 22, 2018, 04:42:05 PM
I saw Al playing bass with the BBs on at least one number in Dec. 1984.

Yeah, I saw him play bass on "Fun Fun Fun" that August (maybe "Babara Ann" too...I know he played the bass on that one at the July 5th '81 Long Island show...)
I've seen Al play piano, twice - both times on "Be True To Your School" (in '82 and '84), and electronic drums on that same song (meaning, "Be True To Your School"...not "That Same Song") in '86. Talented guy - especially when it comes to that song! :)


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on February 22, 2018, 10:22:57 PM
He played electronic drums live? That’s pretty cool


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Beach Boy on February 23, 2018, 01:28:19 AM
I saw Al playing bass with the BBs on at least one number in Dec. 1984.

Yeah, I saw him play bass on "Fun Fun Fun" that August (maybe "Babara Ann" too...I know he played the bass on that one at the July 5th '81 Long Island show...)


Wow, I never noticed that and I've seen this show a couple of times. Seems like Ernie Knapp is playing Al's guitar and Bruce is too occupied hugging Dean Torrence and Adrian Baker.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: HeyJude on February 23, 2018, 09:20:08 AM
While I'm probably a bigger champion than most anyone of the idea of Al as a stronger musician than people tend to think, it's worth noting that a lot of his latter-day brief bits playing bass (or doing percussion, etc.) on a song or two here and there was really just more of a novelty and/or out of necessity because whomever was normally playing bass had moved to some other instrument for a song (and/or Al just messing around and switching to bass for a song).

You'll notice that Ed Carter would switch over to lead guitar for "Barbara Ann" and "Help Me Rhonda" in the 80s and Brian or Mike Meros would move to Bruce's keyboard while Bruce moved over onto bass.

In later years, Ed Carter would switch to lead guitar for "Summer In Paradise" and Billy Hinsche would switch to bass.

I think Al was just filling a similar role when he did the same.

Weirdest on-stage Al bit: It might just be Al singing *without* an instrument for "Buzz Buzz Buzz" in 1984. Much like Carl with "What You Do To Me" in 1983, these guys both don't do well without a guitar strapped on. It's just weird. Same goes for Brian when did the same.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: thorgil on February 23, 2018, 09:23:33 AM
I did not know that Al played bass too, and I'm impressed.
"Only four strings"? Of course it may have been easy for you, Al, but it's not so easy really. Just check a YouTube tutorial about good bass playing...


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: HeyJude on February 23, 2018, 09:44:26 AM
I also think most of the BBs had their musicianship skills atrophy to varying degrees over the years, especially once they were rarely recording and the live setlist became pretty stale.

They were all full-time, working musicians back in 1963/64, etc., so I think they were all just more easily adaptable to things like playing bass, or doing leads, or whatever.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: All Summer Long on February 23, 2018, 12:43:56 PM
Is that Long Island concert on YouTube? I'm interested in seeing it.

While I'm probably a bigger champion than most anyone of the idea of Al as a stronger musician than people tend to think, it's worth noting that a lot of his latter-day brief bits playing bass (or doing percussion, etc.) on a song or two here and there was really just more of a novelty and/or out of necessity because whomever was normally playing bass had moved to some other instrument for a song (and/or Al just messing around and switching to bass for a song).

You'll notice that Ed Carter would switch over to lead guitar for "Barbara Ann" and "Help Me Rhonda" in the 80s and Brian or Mike Meros would move to Bruce's keyboard while Bruce moved over onto bass.

In later years, Ed Carter would switch to lead guitar for "Summer In Paradise" and Billy Hinsche would switch to bass.

I think Al was just filling a similar role when he did the same.

Weirdest on-stage Al bit: It might just be Al singing *without* an instrument for "Buzz Buzz Buzz" in 1984. Much like Carl with "What You Do To Me" in 1983, these guys both don't do well without a guitar strapped on. It's just weird. Same goes for Brian when did the same.

Could Billy Hinsche play everything?


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on February 23, 2018, 03:32:25 PM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Jon Stebbins on February 23, 2018, 07:28:18 PM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: c-man on February 24, 2018, 09:26:24 AM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: All Summer Long on February 24, 2018, 03:27:57 PM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).

How likely is it that David Marks played it? I know we're not entirely sure, and I'm not sure which thread it was (and the search function isn't always helpful).


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on February 25, 2018, 08:24:01 AM
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).
Thanks, Mr. Stebbins & Mr. Slowinski. This line-up in DWB is revelation to this fan. It brings new colors to the song, if it makes sense (usually, who plays what is crucial to hear song this or that way imo).


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: c-man on February 25, 2018, 08:40:52 AM
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).
Thanks, Mr. Stebbins & Mr. Slowinski. This line-up in DWB is revelation to this fan. It brings new colors to the song, if it makes sense (usually, who plays what is crucial to hear song this or that way imo).

Once Al rejoined the band, the typical studio lineup for basic tracks (not always, but typically) had Brian on piano, Al on bass, Dennis on drums, David on rhythm guitar (until he left), and Carl on lead guitar (until David left).  Once Dave left, Carl began playing rhythm guitar on the basic, and overdubbing the lead guitar. Not 100% of the time, but like I said this was pretty typical.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on February 26, 2018, 08:50:32 PM
Another interesting thing to note, perhaps, is that for a lot of the tracks upon which Al played bass, he not only had to play bass once, but twice.  Lots of bass doubling.  Great sound.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Rocker on February 27, 2018, 06:14:00 AM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).



But what would be the need to have David play the lead on DWB? Was Carl on the road during that time?


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: c-man on March 01, 2018, 03:29:12 AM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).



But what would be the need to have David play the lead on DWB? Was Carl on the road during that time?

Who knows - not likely that reason, though, as Dave recalls Brian producing the guitar overdub session - meaning, if Carl was on the road with the band, they would have only been a four-piece...so, not likely.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: Rocker on March 01, 2018, 04:26:32 AM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).



But what would be the need to have David play the lead on DWB? Was Carl on the road during that time?

Who knows - not likely that reason, though, as Dave recalls Brian producing the guitar overdub session - meaning, if Carl was on the road with the band, they would have only been a four-piece...so, not likely.


Hm, interesting. It's not like the solo is complicated and could only be performed by certain players. Maybe it was just a nod to David.


Title: Re: Al Jardine - The Unsung Hero of BASS GUITAR
Post by: branaa09 on March 01, 2018, 06:43:44 AM
Cool thread! Thanks, everybody. Wiki lists Brian as bass & Al as rhythm guitar in DWB. But yrplace says Al, in fact, played bass which means Brian played rhythm guitar. Interesting. :3d
Brian played piano on DWB (definitely not rhythm guitar).

Yeah - Carl played the rhythm guitar on the "DWB" basic track. The lead guitar was overdubbed - possibly by David Marks, according to him - even though he was officially out of the band by then (this was discussed on an earlier thread).




But what would be the need to have David play the lead on DWB? Was Carl on the road during that time?

Who knows - not likely that reason, though, as Dave recalls Brian producing the guitar overdub session - meaning, if Carl was on the road with the band, they would have only been a four-piece...so, not likely.

Yeah but isn't Brian singing his Lead Vocal with someone playing the Guitar Overdub at the same. I know Brian had to have Takes in order to perfect the Lead Vocal and there is evidence of this on the Stereo Session Outtake on MIC. While he's singing differently with that take, the guitar sounds also different. So every time Brian sang another take, the Guitar would had to have been played; like on In The Parkin' Lot. Unless, Brian sang the Lead Vocal and then had Chuck rewind the tape, so David could add the Intro and Solo. Maybe Mark or someone can explain this. Brian was sure creative with Three Tracks.