The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hey-so I am still regularly contributing to the Bellagio Gigs/sessions site and this isn't a replacement but I created my own little site to show off stuff I collected doing research.  It is in its infancy, So you can currently see Gigs  from 1964 (view gigs and click on 1964)-with pictures/ads from each one.  Then if when you are at the homepage you click on the link at top right-you can look at a blog of updates to my book (in the format of the book) -currently from 1962 to 1966.  I will keep working on it.  There is also a place to contact me if you have info not known.
https://www.beachboysgigs.com

Looks great so far!  :) I can already tell that this site could prove to be among the best on the group. There seem to be a few bugs though. I clicked on the year 1963, and it took me to the page for 1980.  :lol

Great, that oughta be an interesting site!
One thing: in the "Gigs"-section it shows under the 2000s the year dates of the 60s.

What a labour of love! And a joy to visit.

Thanks! As far as the glitches nothing exists for gigs except 64

I see one of Feb 21's openers was Gail Harris, presumably the same GH who guest sang on The Fabulous Wailers At The Castle... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BfmB5rJxhM

Looked at the home photo and decided not to browse any further.
Nobody - nobody - would make a site about the Fab4 and omit Sir Paul in the home photo.
Nobody would make a site about the Rolling Stones and omit Keith Richards.
Nobody would make a site about the Who and omit Pete Townshend.
I could go on and on, but I hope my point is made.

The world of Beach Boys fandom is really unique...  ???

Ahh omitting Brian was not intentional I was just looking for a photo that worked-I have plenty of photos of the big man in the 1964 gigs section

After ALL these years...you still never cease to amaze with your dedication, commitment and hard work Ian.  Well done...and all the best with the new site.  :hat

Very cool stuff. *This* is the stuff that makes the message board and the fan/scholar community awesome.

To be fair, it's a site devoted to Beach Boys Concerts, and for a large period of The Beach Boys concert history, Brian Wilson was not a touring member of the band.   

The same can't be said about The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who. 

Looks great so far, Ian !

This is a joke post, right?

I rotate the banner photo (or whatever it's called) on my little BB Facebook page all the time. Sometimes it's the "Classic 5", sometimes it's the 70s lineup with Blondie and Ricky. Sometimes it's the 1981 lineup without Carl. Sometimes it's just a picture of Al.

The Beach Boys, as it pertains to their touring history, are NOT analogous to the Beatles at all.

If someone had a similar site for "The Who" and used a shot with Kenney Jones on drums instead of Keith Moon, I wouldn't cry foul.

I just liked that photo and it hasn't been seen much-just looking for an image that isn't super well known-and from an interesting period in their history

I don't see anything wrong with the photograph.   The website looks like a lot of fun. 

It's a great photo, and the website looks awesome. Definitely don't let a random comment (which apparently would constrict you mostly to 1962-1965 and 1976-1982 photos of the band) dissuade you from doing what you're doing. All good stuff.

You can now view September to December 1963 in the Gigs section

Looks great so far

*Love* the news clippings/contemporary reports to go along with the gigs. This is truly the perfect companion to the "In Concert" book.

Any thought going forward to link to (or include within show listings your actual site) available setlists from the shows? I think that would be really interesting, to see all of it in context and also see what was actually played. I know setlists from shows in the early years are hard to come by, with recorded shows being the main source.

I'm sure it's been discussed in the past, but it's interesting to see that Al upon rejoining had a more extended period of time playing that white Gibson SG than I had thought.

The photos of his first gig back at the Hollywood Bowl were somewhat common (all relatively speaking of course), and I had perhaps previously assumed because it was his first gig back that he simply borrowed an SG off another band or something and that it was a one-shot thing. But it looks like the October 31 '63 gig, almost two weeks later, still shows Al using the SG.

Do we have any knowledge of whether this was Al's guitar, or a rental, or was indeed a guitar borrowed off someone else? My recollection is that once he had his Strat, he was never seen with the SG again.

Al obviously had the Strat by early '64 based on numerous photos/films/videos, including the "Lost Concert."

Was the "Beach Boys Concert" cover photo actually taken at the December '63 Sacramento show? Al has the Strat on there, but I honestly had never thought that hard about whether that's just a random '64 BB concert shot or one taken at the actual gig.

Is there any chance Al's playing an SG on "Concert?" Probably not.

Some constructive criticism about the homepage, just my take on it:

- I happen to agree with "Thorgil", optics do matter and since you have a rather large (compared to most) pool of photos that do show Brian Wilson with the Beach Boys on stage and at public appearances, as shown in your book, there could be a photo or a rotating set of photos showing him especially on the homepage. And there could be a rarely seen photo as the home photo as well. I'm thinking your target audience may go beyond the message board crowd, so having a photo showing the original band with Brian, performing or at least on stage, may be a better visual representation of the site than having non-performance photos showing Bruce. Especially considering how many people for decades including my own parents in the late 70's confused Bruce with Brian.

- Again on the optics, and first impressions, unless the core audience of diehard message board posters is your target audience, I don't get why so much real estate on the homepage (the first page people will see) is devoted to praising and almost apologizing to Doe - and explaining the how's and why's. People for the most part don't give a damn, and are clicking the link for the Beach Boys because they're fans...You don't need to explain short of apologizing and praising Doe to these people coming to learn about the band's live gigs and see the photos. It felt like you were saying "I don't want to step on Andrew Doe's toes or his great, amazing website by doing this, but here is my BB resource...".

Ian, your research speaks for itself - The diehard fans will go to your site because they know the quality of your work, and those who are curious won't know or care about Doe's site or what came before if they want to learn more about the band. Don't apologize or feel like you're taking a bow to Doe especially on the homepage of a new site. Homepages are for putting out the image of the site overall and conveying the overall intent to people who click on the link.

Just a personal observation, when I clicked on the link to check it out (again, namely because I knew the reputation of the author/creator and wanted to see what he had to offer)...I see a non-performance photo of the band without Brian Wilson, and the first few lines of text I read were more about Andrew Doe than the actual site and content. I was less inclined to dig the site after that. Optics do matter.

And another - It's good you're doing this site. After certain events unfolded, I refuse to read, engage, or even come into contact with voluntarily anything that Andrew Doe has his hand or name in, in any way, even if it's hosting a webpage depository for other researchers to contribute. Since your research and legwork made up the bulk of that other resource anyway, I was glad to see it available on your new site away from there, I hope the removal process goes beyond this but this is a good start beyond your book.

- The layout of scrolling down the gigs is a little different, but will not be a problem to get used to. But would a more compact clickable table-style format be considered as more gigs and years are added, if the design wouldn't be a nightmare of coding? I guess it seems to me the gigs are spread out and you need to scroll down the entire page to find one you may be looking for, where a master index or something could be a point and click away to a specific show or week rather than scrolling through several dozen entries.

- Id suggest stopping the "Beach Boys" gigs at 1997 and picking up only for C50 in 2012 when they reunited, the lines won't be blurred that way unless you set up a separate section for Mike. I doubt there are many people who would be interested in a page with the 180 shows Mike played in 2015 or whatever the case would be, unless there is the time and energy to enter all those into the page and take up the bandwidth.

While not as essential as their prime touring years, I think the Mike and Bruce era is still a part of BB history, and much like the SIP album, shouldn't be ignored.   

Especially if you factor in how the setlists were changed up with the addition of Scott Totten in 2007.

While you can simply scroll all the way down a year there is a means to jump to a certain month. When you click on the year you will see months below it and if you click on them it jumps to that section

In terms of set lists in 1964 they are very rare because we would need a concert reviewer to actually care about such things and in the 60s that was seldom the case

My understanding is that the concert photos were taken in 1964. Indeed I don't think the bbs wore striped shirts in 1963. But I can't swear to it. I assume the set at most of the summer 1964 shows was the same as the 1964 Sacramento show

Looks good. I like  the  layout.

SIP isn't really analogous to Mike's touring band, as SIP wasn't recorded by a separate unit under license.

I don't think Mike's licensed BB shows should be included simply as a continuation of the 1961-1998 "Beach Boys" shows.

Much as I believe the "In Concert" book does, I think after Carl and Al are gone in 1998, the "Beach Boys" section of any database should stop (with the exception of C50 in 2012), and then it should branch off into off-shoot/solo shows. Mike's licensed "Beach Boys" shows should be in a section alongside Brian's solo shows, Al's "Family & Friends" and other shows, etc.

I have to respectfully disagree. 

To me, wanted to reclassify post 1997 post Beach Boys as something different is pretty much the same as the thread about whether or not Summer in Paradise is a Beach Boys album.

Summer in Paradise is a Beach Boys album. 

Concerts from 1998-2018 are Beach Boys concerts. 

These are facts. 

Agreed. I think in terms of the history, the timeline does stop in a way after Carl's passing, and "The Beach Boys" apart from the 2012 C50 dates, need to have that line drawn to differentiate Mike's licensed name shows from the band prior to needing a license of any sort to play.

It's a Herculean task, no doubt, to collate, sort, and code all these entries which is why I don't know where the interest would be for web visitors coming to check out classic Beach Boys shows and related memorabilia to see Mike's 150+ shows per year after 1998. Or if those shows are deemed worthy of inclusion, then so should tours where Brian played with Al, where he played with Al and David Marks, where Al played his family & friends shows, etc because they're original members playing primarily Beach Boys songs too. I don't see Mike's shows as more worthy of inclusion than either Al or Brian post-1998 simply because he paid for the name, when all of the original members are still playing Beach Boys music in their sets.

Logistically and legally, "Beach Boys" concerts from 1998 to the present are NOT the same.

It's absolutely *not* analogous to "Summer in Paradise."

And indeed, Ian and Jon's "In Concert" book does just that, sectioning off those post-Al/Carl shows into a separate section. It's well documented in such books and other sources that the shows are billed as "The Beach Boys", but it's with an understanding that both in terms of fan perception/feelings *AND* legal/procedural terms, those "Beach Boys" shows are most certainly an entirely different animal. It's part of the reason why not one single live track from Mike's 1998-present "Beach Boys" shows have ever been pulled for a "Beach Boys" boxed set or other release.

Fair enough, if the format mirrors the book. 

I look at this way as well: If one is inclined to feel that Mike's "Beach Boys" are the "same" in the most basic sense as they were pre-1998, then it makes it pretty difficult to argue against the idea that he did functionally/procedurally fire Brian and Al (and Dave) in 2012. This is of course not actually the case. But if one is trying to kind of feel the whole thing out as if Mike's band in 2018 is just the "2018 version" of what existed in 2012 or in 1995 or whenever, then it becomes much harder to explain a willing Brian, Al, and Dave no longer being in the band.

In that sense, I honestly do feel it's to Mike's benefit to treat his licensed tour as a separate entity. That way, he is indeed just "going back to his own thing", which is separate from a fully formed Beach Boys.

Fair enough

Sure, it's not the same at the C50 lineup or previous lineups.   I won't dispute that. 

In all honesty I'll need a lot of time to get that far

I'm a big fan of the book and the website looks great as well!

Just wondering, how are Al's shows with Mike and Bruce in 1998 and 2011 grouped in the book?  With The Beach Boys 1961-1998 or the "M&B" section?  And is the tour with David Marks in 2008 part of the "M&B" section.  Don't have the book but want to get it soon.

I don’t have the book in front of me at the moment, but my recollection is that Al’s 2011 appearance is simply mentioned among dates listed under the Mike/Bruce dates. I can’t think of any other category to put that appearance under other than the Mike/Bruce tour.

I can’t recall how Al’s handful (possibly as few as two) of gigs with Mike and Bruce  in 1998 are represented.

As I understand it, there were not any non-Al dates booked under the “Beach Boys” name prior to Al’s departure. I would guess any gigs after Carl’s death with Al present were still “Beach Boys” gigs, while any others were Mike under the “California Beach Band” name until the beginning of July 1998 when Mike obtained a (at that point) non-exclusive license to tour under the BB name.

The easiest cut-off in my mind is either Al’s last gig in May or Mike’s first gig as the “Beach Boys” in July. I don’t think there were any “Beach Boys” shows in between those two dates.